• It's a prop, Jim, but not as we know it.

    From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 13:19:14 2022
    XGID=--aaBBBB------b-acbbDabB-A:0:0:1:00:3:6:3:0:10
    X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

    Score is X:3 O:6. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O X O O X |
    | O O O | | O X O X |
    | O | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X | | X X X |
    | X | | X X X O O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 195 O: 136 X-O: 3-6
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, do you prefer X or O?

    Do you prefer X or O here?
    To clarify, I am talking about whether you prefer X's or O's position.
    I'm not talking about the merits or demerits of being a bot, as
    opposed to being me.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 12:12:29 2022
    On 2/11/2022 4:19 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    XGID=--aaBBBB------b-acbbDabB-A:0:0:1:00:3:6:3:0:10
    X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

    Score is X:3 O:6. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O X O O X |
    | O O O | | O X O X |
    | O | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X | | X X X |
    | X | | X X X O O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 195 O: 136 X-O: 3-6
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, do you prefer X or O?

    X's side is certainly more fun to play. I also think that X is an
    equity favorite. Both sides are in some danger of crunching but I
    think X's solid four-prime is stronger than O's prime, and O's
    checkers on her 3pt are misplaced.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 16:59:37 2022
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 4:19:15 PM UTC-5, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    XGID=--aaBBBB------b-acbbDabB-A:0:0:1:00:3:6:3:0:10
    X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

    Score is X:3 O:6. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O X O O X |
    | O O O | | O X O X |
    | O | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X | | X X X |
    | X | | X X X O O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 195 O: 136 X-O: 3-6
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, do you prefer X or O?

    Do you prefer X or O here?
    To clarify, I am talking about whether you prefer X's or O's position.
    I'm not talking about the merits or demerits of being a bot, as
    opposed to being me.

    Paul

    O, clearly.

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Sun Feb 13 03:13:47 2022
    On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 12:59:38 AM UTC, Stick Rice wrote:
    On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 4:19:15 PM UTC-5, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    XGID=--aaBBBB------b-acbbDabB-A:0:0:1:00:3:6:3:0:10
    X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

    Score is X:3 O:6. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O X O O X |
    | O O O | | O X O X |
    | O | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X | | X X X |
    | X | | X X X O O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 195 O: 136 X-O: 3-6
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, do you prefer X or O?

    Do you prefer X or O here?
    To clarify, I am talking about whether you prefer X's or O's position.
    I'm not talking about the merits or demerits of being a bot, as
    opposed to being me.

    Paul
    O, clearly.

    Stick
    I'll give you 66.7% on this one, Stick.
    Yes, O is a favourite by approx 0.16 according to a rollout (which I didn't keep I'm afraid).
    Yes, 0.16 is a clear margin -- it isn't close.
    However, another interpretation of "clearly" is "obviously".
    But this wasn't obvious to Tim or me -- I also (wrongly) thought that X was an equity favourite.
    I guess it's a matter of experience -- knowing the ways each side wins or loses or gets gammoned,
    and figuring out what happens overall.
    With a lot of skill in this position, it might make a good prop against a non-expert if the non-expert is
    invited to pick their own side -- they might well also pick X and give you 0.16 equity upfront.
    If they pick O, play just one game. If they pick X, invite them to play again and again until they
    show a preference for O.

    Paul

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