• Any volunteers?

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 20 09:42:00 2022
    XGID=--Bb--DbD--AcD---c-da-----:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O | | O O | +---+
    | X O | | O | | 2 |
    | X O | | O | +---+
    | X | | O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O X |
    | O X X O | | X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 172 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 64

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Thu Jan 20 10:55:27 2022
    On January 20, 2022 at 7:42:02 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    XGID=--Bb--DbD--AcD---c-da-----:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

    Position looks like a "hopper skipper" to me.

    And my play 11/1 costs 0.39, so maybe a "bigmac with pickles"?

    Or maybe a "bigmac with taco sauce" to give it a lttle more smell??

    I'm bored and nobody plays with me. :( Sigh...

    MK

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 09:34:51 2022
    XGID=--Bb--DbD--AcD---c-da-----:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O | | O O | +---+
    | X O | | O | | 2 |
    | X O | | O | +---+
    | X | | O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O X |
    | O X X O | | X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 172 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 64

    Magriel's criteria mostly point toward a safe play. The only play
    that leaves no shots is 11/1, which isn't pretty, but doesn't look
    terrible at first glance. The trouble is that X's position remains
    inflexible, and he is highly likely to leave more shots soon, when
    O's board is likely to be stronger than it is now. XG favors the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4!

    1. Rollout¹ 11/5 8/4 eq:+0.080
    Player: 58.20% (G:16.44% B:0.51%)
    Opponent: 41.80% (G:8.73% B:0.31%)
    Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.069..+0.090) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 13/9 11/5 eq:-0.005 (-0.084)
    Player: 55.08% (G:17.32% B:0.49%)
    Opponent: 44.92% (G:10.17% B:0.37%)
    Confidence: ±0.011 (-0.015..+0.006) - [0.0%]

    3. Rollout¹ 11/1 eq:-0.059 (-0.139)
    Player: 53.64% (G:13.54% B:0.28%)
    Opponent: 46.36% (G:10.07% B:0.37%)
    Confidence: ±0.011 (-0.070..-0.049) - [0.0%]

    4. Rollout¹ 11/5 6/2 eq:-0.074 (-0.153)
    Player: 53.39% (G:14.37% B:0.38%)
    Opponent: 46.61% (G:10.60% B:0.39%)
    Confidence: ±0.012 (-0.086..-0.061) - [0.0%]

    5. Rollout¹ 8/4 8/2 eq:-0.093 (-0.173)
    Player: 52.27% (G:15.92% B:0.43%)
    Opponent: 47.73% (G:11.39% B:0.46%)
    Confidence: ±0.011 (-0.104..-0.082) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Sat Jan 22 22:26:55 2022
    On January 22, 2022 at 7:34:54 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    Magriel's criteria mostly point toward a safe play. The only play
    that leaves no shots is 11/1, which isn't pretty, but doesn't look
    terrible at first glance. The trouble is that X's position remains inflexible, and he is highly likely to leave more shots soon, when
    O's board is likely to be stronger than it is now. XG favors the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4!

    11/1 is the right play. Because a (copy of a copy of tweaked
    trained) bot plays differently, you are trying to explain why it
    does so. I wish I could know how TD-G.01 would play this.

    "Slotting" is different than "leaving blots" either in desperation
    or to totally crush the opponent.

    In this position there is no reason to leave a blot, certainly not
    two blots. So, to me it's "slotting". Like XG's playing an opening
    21 as 13/11 6/5 or in response to opponents opening 54 played
    as 24/20 13/8. In the first case I double and accept the beaver.
    In the second case I raccoon. You can see examples of those
    moves in the experiments that I have posted. I believe that they
    win more or at least not lose more for me. Perhaps somebody
    like Axel can run a short experiment to see find out.

    It seems like everybody and their uncles either have some rules
    named after them or have some mottos. If I were to start having
    mine, I would begin with a rhyming and easy to remember motto:

    "You slot; you slut!"

    MK

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 22:36:30 2022
    On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 1:26:56 AM UTC-5, MK wrote:
    On January 22, 2022 at 7:34:54 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    Magriel's criteria mostly point toward a safe play. The only play
    that leaves no shots is 11/1, which isn't pretty, but doesn't look
    terrible at first glance. The trouble is that X's position remains inflexible, and he is highly likely to leave more shots soon, when
    O's board is likely to be stronger than it is now. XG favors the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4!
    11/1 is the right play. Because a (copy of a copy of tweaked
    trained) bot plays differently, you are trying to explain why it
    does so. I wish I could know how TD-G.01 would play this.

    "Slotting" is different than "leaving blots" either in desperation
    or to totally crush the opponent.

    In this position there is no reason to leave a blot, certainly not
    two blots. So, to me it's "slotting". Like XG's playing an opening
    21 as 13/11 6/5 or in response to opponents opening 54 played
    as 24/20 13/8. In the first case I double and accept the beaver.
    In the second case I raccoon. You can see examples of those
    moves in the experiments that I have posted. I believe that they
    win more or at least not lose more for me. Perhaps somebody
    like Axel can run a short experiment to see find out.

    It seems like everybody and their uncles either have some rules
    named after them or have some mottos. If I were to start having
    mine, I would begin with a rhyming and easy to remember motto:

    "You slot; you slut!"

    MK

    The double slot is a next.

    Stick

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Mon Jan 31 01:01:50 2022
    On January 22, 2022 at 11:36:31 PM UTC-7, Stick Rice wrote:

    On January 23, 2022 at 1:26:56 AM UTC-5, MK wrote:

    On January 22, 2022 at 7:34:54 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    Magriel's criteria mostly point toward a safe play. The only play
    that leaves no shots is 11/1, which isn't pretty, but doesn't look
    terrible at first glance. The trouble is that X's position remains
    inflexible, and he is highly likely to leave more shots soon, when
    O's board is likely to be stronger than it is now. XG favors the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4!

    11/1 is the right play. Because a (copy of a copy of tweaked
    trained) bot plays differently, you are trying to explain why it
    does so. I wish I could know how TD-G.01 would play this.

    Reading this again before replying to shtick, I realized that you
    contrasted "safe" vs. "bold", talking without saying anything or
    taking sides just like a prostitute politician...

    I couldn't help wondering "what if you, shtick, et. al. favored the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4 but XG played the safe 11/1 a la
    Magriel"...?

    Good attorneys like good politicians can argue both sides of an
    argument equally well. Do you think you could pretend to be a
    prostitute attorney and argue why the 11/1 would be the right
    play instead?

    "You slot; you slut!"

    Just to counter any negative reaction to my motto simply based
    on the word "slut", it appears that at least in the past it was used
    to mean "untidy woman (or man)", "loose woman (or man)". So,
    you can try to hear it as being used to describe "slotting play" as
    "untidy play", "loose play"...

    The double slot is a next.

    And my question to shtick: "How do you kow what you assert?!"

    MK

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 31 07:54:53 2022
    On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 4:01:51 AM UTC-5, MK wrote:
    On January 22, 2022 at 11:36:31 PM UTC-7, Stick Rice wrote:
    On January 23, 2022 at 1:26:56 AM UTC-5, MK wrote:

    On January 22, 2022 at 7:34:54 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    Magriel's criteria mostly point toward a safe play. The only play
    that leaves no shots is 11/1, which isn't pretty, but doesn't look
    terrible at first glance. The trouble is that X's position remains
    inflexible, and he is highly likely to leave more shots soon, when
    O's board is likely to be stronger than it is now. XG favors the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4!

    11/1 is the right play. Because a (copy of a copy of tweaked
    trained) bot plays differently, you are trying to explain why it
    does so. I wish I could know how TD-G.01 would play this.
    Reading this again before replying to shtick, I realized that you
    contrasted "safe" vs. "bold", talking without saying anything or
    taking sides just like a prostitute politician...

    I couldn't help wondering "what if you, shtick, et. al. favored the
    bold double-slotting 11/5 8/4 but XG played the safe 11/1 a la
    Magriel"...?

    Good attorneys like good politicians can argue both sides of an
    argument equally well. Do you think you could pretend to be a
    prostitute attorney and argue why the 11/1 would be the right
    play instead?

    "You slot; you slut!"

    Just to counter any negative reaction to my motto simply based
    on the word "slut", it appears that at least in the past it was used
    to mean "untidy woman (or man)", "loose woman (or man)". So,
    you can try to hear it as being used to describe "slotting play" as
    "untidy play", "loose play"...
    The double slot is a next.
    And my question to shtick: "How do you kow what you assert?!"

    MK

    Via the backgammon money in my bank account.

    Stick

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Mon Jan 31 13:46:29 2022
    On January 31, 2022 at 8:54:54 AM UTC-7, Stick Rice wrote:

    On January 31, 2022 at 4:01:51 AM UTC-5, MK wrote:

    And my question to shtick: "How do you kow what you assert?!"

    Via the backgammon money in my bank account.

    Right after I posted my above question, I had already
    started to try predicting your possible answers and
    to come up with rebuttal comments to them but I have
    to admit that you got me pretty bad by completely
    throwing me off here... :(

    I didn't expect that you could be capable of such a
    stupid "next" answer.

    MK

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  • From Nasti Chestikov@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 1 09:39:37 2022
    On Monday, 31 January 2022 at 21:46:30 UTC, MK wrote:

    I didn't expect that you could be capable of such a
    stupid "next" answer.

    MK

    The guy calls himself "Stick".

    You should have anticipated a curve ball. Anyone heroic enough to call themselves "Stick" is capable of anything.

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Nasti Chestikov on Wed Feb 2 00:13:19 2022
    On 2/1/2022 12:39 PM, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
    On Monday, 31 January 2022 at 21:46:30 UTC, MK wrote:

    I didn't expect that you could be capable of such a
    stupid "next" answer.

    MK

    The guy calls himself "Stick".

    You should have anticipated a curve ball. Anyone heroic enough to call themselves "Stick" is capable of anything.

    Sock puppet to the rescue!

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Thu Feb 3 16:36:27 2022
    On February 1, 2022 at 10:13:23 PM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    On 2/1/2022 12:39 PM, Nasti Chestikov wrote:

    On Monday, 31 January 2022 at 21:46:30 UTC, MK wrote:

    I didn't expect that you could be capable of such a
    stupid "next" answer.

    The guy calls himself "Stick".
    You should have anticipated a curve ball. Anyone heroic
    enough to call themselves "Stick" is capable of anything.

    Sock puppet to the rescue!

    I don't need to be rescued. I don't even need support.
    I'm doing just fine humiliating stick by myself.

    What he said doesn't even add anything to my point.

    On the other hand, stick needs help and that's indeed
    why you not oly showed up here but also revived an
    old thread from November in order to restore some
    credit to him, unfortunately in vain...

    MK

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 4 08:29:10 2022
    On 2/3/2022 7:36 PM, MK wrote:
    I'm doing just fine humiliating stick by myself.

    Yes, that's what I said!

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Fri Feb 4 16:06:26 2022
    On February 4, 2022 at 6:29:13 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:

    On 2/3/2022 7:36 PM, MK wrote:

    I'm doing just fine humiliating stick by myself.

    Yes, that's what I said!

    Yes.

    MK

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