• Card Counter Catchers Speak!

    From blanksromnie3@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 6 15:48:05 2017
    Am not going to be doing all post and rental so I look like a fool I don't know who that is why did he or she talk to me personally answer that for me please will you pay out your money because someone say I want you to for everyday post and who am I
    posting for come on you not gaving out no information like that out not me.

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to DGGRANT on Thu Jan 25 14:08:18 2018
    On Monday, December 25, 2000 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-5, DGGRANT wrote:

    Also consider THIS DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN IN 1994. Since that date the casinos have went high-tech. So if you thought that Max Rubin's description of how suspect card counterswere identified then, you should hear how much easier it is for casinos
    today to label anyone a card counter in less than five minutes.

    Card counting systems are a BIG CON. Max Rubin's (A.K.A.> Mike Riordan) sworn testimony (and dozens of other similar type depositions provided to the courts by other card counter catchers during the Campione case) provides
    irrefutable proof that the authors and software hucksters have been lying all along. They are using the fraudulent claim that card counting systems can still win to sell their worthless and dangerous systems, books and software. This
    post provides clear proof the con men hucksters and casino agents are lying to this newsgroup and their sucker clients.

    Doug Grant (Tm)

    .

    The worst aspect: Card-counting degenerated into a mental disorder. It is kinduv CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). Reading posts in blackjack or gambling forums is like reading materials psychiatrists watch for their patients. The card-counters
    even claim special psychic powers! In truth, every blackjack card-counter is a cuckooyak.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/rec.gambling.blackjack/chujyzO58wQ

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 4 15:13:57 2018
    The legal excerpt published here can disappear if Google groups shut down. Google is notorious for offering services then discontinuing them. At least 25 such Google services have been canceled.

    You might want to reserve your own copy. It is nicely formatted as the user groups are primitive as far as text formatting is concerned.

    http://saliu.com/card-counter-catchers.html
    • “Card Counter Catchers Speak Out — Developers, authors, vendors of card counting systems for blackjack make money by testifying against… card-counters!”

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to Ion Saliu on Thu Sep 13 09:13:49 2018
    On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 6:13:58 PM UTC-4, Ion Saliu wrote:
    The legal excerpt published here can disappear if Google groups shut down. Google is notorious for offering services then discontinuing them. At least 25 such Google services have been canceled.

    You might want to reserve your own copy. It is nicely formatted as the user groups are primitive as far as text formatting is concerned.

    https://saliu.com/card-counter-catchers.html
    • “Card Counter Catchers Speak Out — Developers, authors, vendors of card counting systems for blackjack make money by testifying against… card-counters!”


    However, as you can see in this very thread, even “public enemy number one” of card-counter catchers wanted himself to be a… card-counter catcher!!! Obviously, there ain’t any other way to make money as a blackjack card counter!

    https://saliu.com/bbs/messages/274.html
    Blackjack Card Counting: Systems, Gambling Mathematics, Cult, Fraud, Deception

    Ion Saliu,
    Founder of Axiomatic Intelligence (AxI)
    “The unknown hides in plain sight on the path of the axiomatics.”
    • saliu.com/neural-networking-lottery.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From parkstreetbooboo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to DGGRANT on Sat Sep 15 14:12:17 2018
    On Monday, December 25, 2000 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-5, DGGRANT wrote:
    Since the latest con from the con men is that casino surveillance
    conditions we say exist are not to be found. And that
    casinos just love to lose money to card counters, (sure,
    right Harvey, alises et al) I thought it appropriate to repost the
    SWORN
    TESTIMONY of the former card counter catcher from the Mirage
    Casino in Las Vegas.

    After you read what the card counter catchers are **really**
    saying under oath to the courts, then you will begin to
    appreciate how much the con men are deceiving the suckers
    when they fraudulently represent that they can win with card counting systems.

    The following quotations were quotations taken from Michael
    Riordan's (AKA MAX RUBIN) depositions,
    sworn and deposed by Mr. Riordan on 08/30/1994 at the
    Tropicana Hotel at approximately 1400
    hours. This document is a matter of public record was
    secured from the TropWorld law firms in
    Alantic City. You may verifiy the autenticity of these
    quotations by contacting our lawyer, Mr.
    Howard A. Altschuler, Esq., at Lawcenter@worldnet.att.net
    for positive verification that the following
    quotations have been taken directly from Mr. Riordan's
    aforesaid sworn testimony.

    Mr. Riordan's sworn depostions were held when Arnold
    Snyder, Stanford Wong, Anthony Curtis, Peter Griffin and Max
    Rubin joined with card counter catchers and casinos and
    casino spokespersons to provide testimony against card
    counters. (Well-paid testimony I should add). Again, if
    you have ANY doubts about ANY contents of this post, contact our
    lawyer
    and hear the truth directly from an officer of the court.

    I will start the sworn depostion much earlier than the key
    responses, and continue well after so the con men cannot
    claim I am posting anything out of context.

    Start Michael Riordan (Max Rubin's) deposition excerpts:

    Lawyer daily to Michael Riordan (AKA Max Rubin) page 8,
    line 9:

    Q: Lawyer Daily to Michael Riordan (Max Rubin):
    How long did you work as a card counter
    catcher?

    A: Rubin Answers: ôA year, year and a half.ö

    Q: Lawyer Daily: ôCould you tell me what your duties as a
    card counter catcher were?ö

    A: Rubin Answers: "Several. One I was--I had the pit, the
    double deck pit on grave yard where
    essentially the high limit play was on the Mirage on that
    particular shift and I was responsible for
    our looking at the high limit play, observe the betting
    patterns, those sort of things. Observing
    just the act the people put on, trying to identify people
    that were together and recognizing some
    sort of team play."

    (Max Rubin continues to answer the question without
    interruption:) "And then I would actually go into the back, take
    breaks, and then use the
    surveillance cameras because the surveillance people there weren't
    very good at what they
    were doing. Typically that's the
    way a lot of casinos are. And I would go back there and
    evaluate the play. And also they would tape it. I would review the
    tapes and actually
    analyze the percentage edge the people would have on any given
    situation and do a compilation of
    number of hands and I would actually extrapolate from that what their expectation was,
    say, on 100 hands, and looked like those people might be doing
    something."

    (Rubin continues to answer the question without
    interruption): Rubin: "If they were, if the people
    continued to pay on day shift or swing shift, then they
    would have somebody also evaluate
    them, sometimes an outside counter. Typically, if one
    person identifies them as a card counter
    they have to have somebody else verify it, a second
    verification - and sometimes there--."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: Page 9, line 18: ôWho would be an outside
    counter?

    A: Rubin to Daily: Page 9, line 19: "Howard Grossman."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWas he employed by the Mirage, was he an
    employee of Mirage?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "I'm not sure what his status was, how
    they paid him. I believe he acts as a
    consultant on some type of hourly or monthly basis, which
    is --whatever they pay him is plenty,
    too much."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWhat were you paid as a card counter
    catcher?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Not very much. Hundred and - I believe
    $187 per day."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôSo there would be an analysis of a
    player. What would you do, you recorded
    his different moves and then you would have them analyzed?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Um-hum. The different bets, if somebody
    suspected they might be doing something, (counting cards) and they
    actually record every
    table at the Mirage. There's two cameras on 24 hours a day and those
    cameras are good for
    six days. So anything that happened for the past six days, they can
    pull up and
    backtrack that player's play. And they have a rating system over
    there and you knew precisely
    what table they were on and what seat the are sitting in. If somebody suspected someone
    (of card counting) they would call surveillance, pull up Table 3 from
    three days ago
    between the hours of 6 p.m. and 9 p.m., seat #1 and see how the guy
    bet."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôIf the guy was identified as a card
    counter what would be done?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: ôSeveral things would be done. They
    would look in the books, the Griffin books, which you're familiar with Griffin's books
    out here. It's a compilation of books out here that pictures have
    been taken of alleged
    counters, alleged people that have been to dinner with counters, the
    whole thing. It's really
    an industry joke, but there is a fellow Griffin who has a detective
    agency and he gets mug
    shots of people and they put them in this book and they try to use
    that to identify (card
    counters). They will see if the people identified or a name matches
    up with faces and names
    in that book."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôBesides the face and name would there be
    any other information in that
    book?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Associates, affiliations. They call the
    people in those books suspects
    and they would say, Suspect is expected of being, A: A
    computer player and this and that.
    There are 50 things they can suspect somebody of doing, but
    primarily it's for card counters, is to identify them for the people
    in
    surveillance. Now back to the original question which was what would
    we do."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWould there be an address for some of
    the people if the addresses were
    known?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "I donÆt think so. I don't remember
    seeing an address."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôSo my original question, what would be
    done (if a person was suspected of
    counting cards).

    A: Rubin to Daily: "What would be done at the Mirage, it's
    different than most clubs. The Mirage policy, unless it's somebody
    who's been in the book a
    lot or they are, quote, notorious, they would simply tell the person
    they have to
    flat bet from this point forward.
    Flat bet meaning you have to make the same bet every time
    you wagered on a blackjack table, otherwise you can play any other
    game. That's
    typical what would happen. If it's
    somebody who had either been told to flat bet before and was
    now not flat betting, they would tell them they can't play blackjack.
    Third time if
    you happen to come in and they told you flat bet, and they say you
    couldn't play and you
    subsequently played, they would tell you that you cannot come in the
    casino any and they
    read you the trespass act. And the trespass act essentially means
    next time you stop on the
    property they will arrest you and take you downtown and fine you $50
    and let you go."

    Page 5, line 14: Q: Daily to Rubin: ôAnd briefly could you
    give us your background in working
    in the casino industry?

    Start page 5, Line 16: A: Rubin to Daily: ôStarted off in
    1966 parking cars as a valet parker at
    the Golden Nugget. Through the years going to college I was
    a dealer, probably been a dealer for
    eight years to ten - eight years anyway on the Las Vegas
    strip. Been a casino manager in North
    Shore Club, Lake Tahoe. Been pit boos, floor man, etcetera,
    etcetera on the Las Vegas strip. At
    the end, dealer at the Riviera, Frontier, Sands, Mirage.ö

    ôVice president/operator, casino manage at the TeePee
    Bingo and Indian Casino in
    Langston, Oklahoma, and was owner/operator/manager in Indio,
    California. It was known as the
    Desert Oasis Indian casino for five years.ö

    ôWas the owner/operator of a consulting company that also
    assisted with management at
    California Card Room down in Los Angeles. ThatÆs the extent
    of my jobs and owning places.ö

    Daily to Michael Riordan (AKA MAX RUBIN), page 14, line 10.

    Daily: ôWhen you were working at the Mirage, how much money
    was the Mirage spending to
    catch card counters, if you can give me an estimate based
    upon you working there?ö

    Mr. Bradley (TropWorldÆs lawyer): ôIs this really relevant
    to his opinion?ö

    Mr. Daily (Sigma's lawyer): ôThis is the last question along
    this line and will be the end of it.ö

    Max Rubin (AKA Michael Riordan): "I can tell you the process
    they went through to catch counters. They had card counting classes
    to teach all of
    their people what card counting was, and we actually went through a
    six-to eight-hour series
    where they would teach you about card counting, certain recognition
    factors for the
    people that were very easily identifiable for the average floor person
    so they would at
    least have a vague notion of what card counting was."

    (Riordan ((Max Rubin)) continues on page 15 line 3 still in
    response to the initial question):

    "But their actual expense? I don't know if you want to
    look at the capital cost, that sort of thing, they had three, four
    million dollars in
    surveillance equipment there. As far as actual stuff that we are
    doing that, they tended to have
    their staff wear several hats. You might work the floor and then if
    they suspected a problem they
    would pull you off."

    (Riordan ((Max Rubin)) continues on line 11, page 15 still
    answering the initial question:)

    "And if they always had an extra person on each shift that
    could float around, so somebody could be taken out of the standard
    work force and
    do some other job, such as catching
    counters or analyzing or training some staff, whatever it
    may be."

    Lawyer Daily's very next question: Daily to Max: Q: ôHave
    you ever seen or reviewed any
    studies which indicate how much casinos would lose if they
    did not take measures against card
    counters?ö

    Max Replies on page 15, line 19 to the Daily question: "Oh,
    I saw the Sigma Report which was obviously self-serving because it was written by some
    people that want to count cards.
    I don't think you can do that, whatever study. I could come
    up with a study tomorrow, I could
    tell you what my interpretation of it is, but you can't do
    that."

    End of deposition excerpts: ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------

    Comments:

    Fascinating reading don't you think? But what did we learn:

    1. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    associates) claimed that dealers were not taught how to
    identify card counters. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey Choen Ph. D MY
    ASS and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.

    2. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey Cohen and associates) claimed that a good *act* would allow you to get
    away with card counting. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.


    3. The con men casino agents posting here claimed that it was
    impossible for a casino
    to review each table for card counters. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that Harvey aliases et al and his friends are obviously lying to
    this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    4. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed that by moving around between
    casinos you could avoid card counting heat. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that Harvey and his friends are obviously lying to this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    5. The con men casino agents posting here (like BRubin, aliases et
    al)
    claimed that your photograph was never
    taken nor was placed in any book or that it was impossible
    to match up photographs of card counters. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that the con men system hucksters are obviously lying to this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.



    6. The con men casino agents posting here (like Abdul, Harvey and
    his associates) claimed their card counting systems would
    beat real world casinos despite countermeasures. The sworn
    card counter catcher testimony posted herein proves
    irrefutably that Abdul and his friends are obviously lying
    to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    7. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed you are not breaking any laws if
    you count cards. Yet we find that trespass violations are
    common. The sworn card counter catcher testimony posted
    herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are
    obviously lying to this newsgroup in respect to this issue. Clearly
    if you want a criminal record along with losing your money,
    purchasing a card counting system from one of these hucksters
    is the way to go.


    8. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey Choen and
    his associates) claimed that a suspect card counter was
    never video taped. The sworn card counter catcher testimony
    posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends
    are obviously lying to this newsgroup in respect to this
    issue.


    9. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed that outside card counters were
    never used to help casinos identify suspect card counters.
    The sworn card counter catcher testimony posted herein
    proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are obviously
    lying to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    10. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey
    and his associates) claimed that even if you associate
    with a suspect card counter you will not be erroneously
    identified as a suspect card counter yourself. The sworn
    card counter catcher testimony posted herein proves
    irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are obviously lying
    to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.

    11. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey
    and his associates) claimed that classes were never held to
    teach dealers and floor personnel how to immediately
    identify card counters.
    They Lied (and in fact some of these system huckster
    authors WERE THE INSTRUCTORS teaching dealers how to
    identify card counters. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.


    And finally, note once again what Mr. Riordan (Max Rubin)
    said about the Sigma Report: ô
    "Oh, I saw the Sigma Report which was obviously self-serving
    because it was written by
    some people that want to count cards."



    I have posted several times that Harvey, Harkness BRubin, BingoBilly
    and their
    aliases are simply fabricating stories in a feeble attempt
    to discredit me. They know I have years of more in-casino
    experience than they will ever have, and that my teams won
    more money than any others. They are afraid their con game
    will be exposed by someone that really knows the details in
    respect to using a card counting system effectively against
    a real world casino. This post proves the con men are flagrantly
    lying to this newsgroup,
    and fabricating malicious libel in an attempt to discredit
    anyone that will tell the truth about their system failures.

    Note how court and sworn testimony has a way of bringing
    out the truth. Also note that this deposition was taken long before
    I started to post on RGB. So although
    Mr. Riordan was working for the TropWorld, he had no reason
    to lie about anything else
    involved in catching or identifying suspect card counters.
    What was it he said again, "50 WAYS YOU
    COULD BE PLACED IN THE SUSPECT CARD COUNTER BOOK!" Yep that
    is what he said.

    Also consider THIS DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN IN 1994. Since that
    date the casinos have went high-tech. So if you thought that Max
    Rubin's
    description of how suspect card counterswere identified then,
    you should hear how much easier it is
    for casinos today to label anyone a
    card counter in less than five minutes.

    Card counting systems are a BIG CON. Max Rubin's (A.K.A.
    Mike Riordan) sworn testimony (and dozens of other similar
    type depositions provided to the courts by other card
    counter catchers during the Campione case) provides
    irrefutable proof that the authors and software hucksters
    have been lying all along. They are using the fraudulent
    claim that card counting systems can still win to sell their
    worthless and dangerous systems, books and software. This
    post provides clear proof the con men hucksters and casino
    agents are lying to this newsgroup and their sucker clients.


    Doug Grant (Tm)


    .

    Blackjack is a fun game. It's more fun than poker. Basic Strategy let's one get close to winning, buy not quite. I can't stand poker. It sucks big time. Maybe I can make money playing poker, but it's just not fun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to Ion Saliu on Fri Nov 30 15:12:38 2018
    On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:13:50 PM UTC-4, Ion Saliu wrote:

    … updating links to HTTPS…

    You might want to reserve your own copy. It is nicely formatted as the user groups are primitive as far as text formatting is concerned.

    https://saliu.com/card-counter-catchers.html
    • “Card Counter Catchers Speak Out — Developers, authors, vendors of card counting systems for blackjack make money by testifying against… card-counters!”


    However, as you can see in this very thread, even “public enemy number one” of card-counter catchers wanted himself to be a… card-counter catcher!!! Obviously, there ain’t any other way to make money as a blackjack card counter!

    https://saliu.com/bbs/messages/274.html
    "Blackjack Card Counting: Systems, Gambling Mathematics, Cult, Fraud, Deception".

    Ion Saliu,
    Founder of Axiomatic Intelligence (AxI)
    “The unknown hides in plain sight on the path of the axiomatics.”
    https://saliu.com/neural-networking-lottery.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to parkstre...@gmail.com on Tue Feb 12 11:35:51 2019
    On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 5:12:19 PM UTC-4, parkstre...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, December 25, 2000 at 4:06:55 PM UTC-5, DGGRANT wrote:
    Since the latest con from the con men is that casino surveillance conditions we say exist are not to be found. And that
    casinos just love to lose money to card counters, (sure,
    right Harvey, alises et al) I thought it appropriate to repost the
    SWORN
    TESTIMONY of the former card counter catcher from the Mirage
    Casino in Las Vegas.

    After you read what the card counter catchers are **really**
    saying under oath to the courts, then you will begin to
    appreciate how much the con men are deceiving the suckers
    when they fraudulently represent that they can win with card counting systems.

    The following quotations were quotations taken from Michael
    Riordan's (AKA MAX RUBIN) depositions,
    sworn and deposed by Mr. Riordan on 08/30/1994 at the
    Tropicana Hotel at approximately 1400
    hours. This document is a matter of public record was
    secured from the TropWorld law firms in
    Alantic City. You may verifiy the autenticity of these
    quotations by contacting our lawyer, Mr.
    Howard A. Altschuler, Esq., at Lawcenter@worldnet.att.net
    for positive verification that the following
    quotations have been taken directly from Mr. Riordan's
    aforesaid sworn testimony.

    Mr. Riordan's sworn depostions were held when Arnold
    Snyder, Stanford Wong, Anthony Curtis, Peter Griffin and Max
    Rubin joined with card counter catchers and casinos and
    casino spokespersons to provide testimony against card
    counters. (Well-paid testimony I should add). Again, if
    you have ANY doubts about ANY contents of this post, contact our
    lawyer
    and hear the truth directly from an officer of the court.

    I will start the sworn depostion much earlier than the key
    responses, and continue well after so the con men cannot
    claim I am posting anything out of context.

    Start Michael Riordan (Max Rubin's) deposition excerpts:

    Lawyer daily to Michael Riordan (AKA Max Rubin) page 8,
    line 9:

    Q: Lawyer Daily to Michael Riordan (Max Rubin):
    How long did you work as a card counter
    catcher?

    A: Rubin Answers: ôA year, year and a half.ö

    Q: Lawyer Daily: ôCould you tell me what your duties as a
    card counter catcher were?ö

    A: Rubin Answers: "Several. One I was--I had the pit, the
    double deck pit on grave yard where
    essentially the high limit play was on the Mirage on that
    particular shift and I was responsible for
    our looking at the high limit play, observe the betting
    patterns, those sort of things. Observing
    just the act the people put on, trying to identify people
    that were together and recognizing some
    sort of team play."

    (Max Rubin continues to answer the question without
    interruption:) "And then I would actually go into the back, take
    breaks, and then use the
    surveillance cameras because the surveillance people there weren't
    very good at what they
    were doing. Typically that's the
    way a lot of casinos are. And I would go back there and
    evaluate the play. And also they would tape it. I would review the
    tapes and actually
    analyze the percentage edge the people would have on any given
    situation and do a compilation of
    number of hands and I would actually extrapolate from that what their expectation was,
    say, on 100 hands, and looked like those people might be doing
    something."

    (Rubin continues to answer the question without
    interruption): Rubin: "If they were, if the people
    continued to pay on day shift or swing shift, then they
    would have somebody also evaluate
    them, sometimes an outside counter. Typically, if one
    person identifies them as a card counter
    they have to have somebody else verify it, a second
    verification - and sometimes there--."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: Page 9, line 18: ôWho would be an outside
    counter?

    A: Rubin to Daily: Page 9, line 19: "Howard Grossman."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWas he employed by the Mirage, was he an
    employee of Mirage?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "I'm not sure what his status was, how
    they paid him. I believe he acts as a
    consultant on some type of hourly or monthly basis, which
    is --whatever they pay him is plenty,
    too much."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWhat were you paid as a card counter
    catcher?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Not very much. Hundred and - I believe
    $187 per day."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôSo there would be an analysis of a
    player. What would you do, you recorded
    his different moves and then you would have them analyzed?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Um-hum. The different bets, if somebody
    suspected they might be doing something, (counting cards) and they
    actually record every
    table at the Mirage. There's two cameras on 24 hours a day and those cameras are good for
    six days. So anything that happened for the past six days, they can
    pull up and
    backtrack that player's play. And they have a rating system over
    there and you knew precisely
    what table they were on and what seat the are sitting in. If somebody suspected someone
    (of card counting) they would call surveillance, pull up Table 3 from
    three days ago
    between the hours of 6 p.m. and 9 p.m., seat #1 and see how the guy
    bet."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôIf the guy was identified as a card
    counter what would be done?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: ôSeveral things would be done. They
    would look in the books, the Griffin books, which you're familiar with Griffin's books
    out here. It's a compilation of books out here that pictures have
    been taken of alleged
    counters, alleged people that have been to dinner with counters, the
    whole thing. It's really
    an industry joke, but there is a fellow Griffin who has a detective
    agency and he gets mug
    shots of people and they put them in this book and they try to use
    that to identify (card
    counters). They will see if the people identified or a name matches
    up with faces and names
    in that book."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôBesides the face and name would there be
    any other information in that
    book?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "Associates, affiliations. They call the
    people in those books suspects
    and they would say, Suspect is expected of being, A: A
    computer player and this and that.
    There are 50 things they can suspect somebody of doing, but
    primarily it's for card counters, is to identify them for the people
    in
    surveillance. Now back to the original question which was what would
    we do."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôWould there be an address for some of
    the people if the addresses were
    known?ö

    A: Rubin to Daily: "I donÆt think so. I don't remember
    seeing an address."

    Q: Daily to Rubin: ôSo my original question, what would be
    done (if a person was suspected of
    counting cards).

    A: Rubin to Daily: "What would be done at the Mirage, it's
    different than most clubs. The Mirage policy, unless it's somebody
    who's been in the book a
    lot or they are, quote, notorious, they would simply tell the person
    they have to
    flat bet from this point forward.
    Flat bet meaning you have to make the same bet every time
    you wagered on a blackjack table, otherwise you can play any other
    game. That's
    typical what would happen. If it's
    somebody who had either been told to flat bet before and was
    now not flat betting, they would tell them they can't play blackjack.
    Third time if
    you happen to come in and they told you flat bet, and they say you
    couldn't play and you
    subsequently played, they would tell you that you cannot come in the
    casino any and they
    read you the trespass act. And the trespass act essentially means
    next time you stop on the
    property they will arrest you and take you downtown and fine you $50
    and let you go."

    Page 5, line 14: Q: Daily to Rubin: ôAnd briefly could you
    give us your background in working
    in the casino industry?

    Start page 5, Line 16: A: Rubin to Daily: ôStarted off in
    1966 parking cars as a valet parker at
    the Golden Nugget. Through the years going to college I was
    a dealer, probably been a dealer for
    eight years to ten - eight years anyway on the Las Vegas
    strip. Been a casino manager in North
    Shore Club, Lake Tahoe. Been pit boos, floor man, etcetera,
    etcetera on the Las Vegas strip. At
    the end, dealer at the Riviera, Frontier, Sands, Mirage.ö

    ôVice president/operator, casino manage at the TeePee
    Bingo and Indian Casino in
    Langston, Oklahoma, and was owner/operator/manager in Indio,
    California. It was known as the
    Desert Oasis Indian casino for five years.ö

    ôWas the owner/operator of a consulting company that also
    assisted with management at
    California Card Room down in Los Angeles. ThatÆs the extent
    of my jobs and owning places.ö

    Daily to Michael Riordan (AKA MAX RUBIN), page 14, line 10.

    Daily: ôWhen you were working at the Mirage, how much money
    was the Mirage spending to
    catch card counters, if you can give me an estimate based
    upon you working there?ö

    Mr. Bradley (TropWorldÆs lawyer): ôIs this really relevant
    to his opinion?ö

    Mr. Daily (Sigma's lawyer): ôThis is the last question along
    this line and will be the end of it.ö

    Max Rubin (AKA Michael Riordan): "I can tell you the process
    they went through to catch counters. They had card counting classes
    to teach all of
    their people what card counting was, and we actually went through a
    six-to eight-hour series
    where they would teach you about card counting, certain recognition
    factors for the
    people that were very easily identifiable for the average floor person
    so they would at
    least have a vague notion of what card counting was."

    (Riordan ((Max Rubin)) continues on page 15 line 3 still in
    response to the initial question):

    "But their actual expense? I don't know if you want to
    look at the capital cost, that sort of thing, they had three, four
    million dollars in
    surveillance equipment there. As far as actual stuff that we are
    doing that, they tended to have
    their staff wear several hats. You might work the floor and then if
    they suspected a problem they
    would pull you off."

    (Riordan ((Max Rubin)) continues on line 11, page 15 still
    answering the initial question:)

    "And if they always had an extra person on each shift that
    could float around, so somebody could be taken out of the standard
    work force and
    do some other job, such as catching
    counters or analyzing or training some staff, whatever it
    may be."

    Lawyer Daily's very next question: Daily to Max: Q: ôHave
    you ever seen or reviewed any
    studies which indicate how much casinos would lose if they
    did not take measures against card
    counters?ö

    Max Replies on page 15, line 19 to the Daily question: "Oh,
    I saw the Sigma Report which was obviously self-serving because it was written by some
    people that want to count cards.
    I don't think you can do that, whatever study. I could come
    up with a study tomorrow, I could
    tell you what my interpretation of it is, but you can't do
    that."

    End of deposition excerpts: ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------

    Comments:

    Fascinating reading don't you think? But what did we learn:

    1. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    associates) claimed that dealers were not taught how to
    identify card counters. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey Choen Ph. D MY
    ASS and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.

    2. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey Cohen and associates) claimed that a good *act* would allow you to get
    away with card counting. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.


    3. The con men casino agents posting here claimed that it was
    impossible for a casino
    to review each table for card counters. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that Harvey aliases et al and his friends are obviously lying to
    this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    4. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed that by moving around between
    casinos you could avoid card counting heat. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that Harvey and his friends are obviously lying to this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    5. The con men casino agents posting here (like BRubin, aliases et
    al)
    claimed that your photograph was never
    taken nor was placed in any book or that it was impossible
    to match up photographs of card counters. The sworn card
    counter catcher testimony posted herein proves irrefutably
    that the con men system hucksters are obviously lying to this
    newsgroup in respect to this issue.



    6. The con men casino agents posting here (like Abdul, Harvey and
    his associates) claimed their card counting systems would
    beat real world casinos despite countermeasures. The sworn
    card counter catcher testimony posted herein proves
    irrefutably that Abdul and his friends are obviously lying
    to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    7. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed you are not breaking any laws if
    you count cards. Yet we find that trespass violations are
    common. The sworn card counter catcher testimony posted
    herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are
    obviously lying to this newsgroup in respect to this issue. Clearly
    if you want a criminal record along with losing your money,
    purchasing a card counting system from one of these hucksters
    is the way to go.


    8. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey Choen and
    his associates) claimed that a suspect card counter was
    never video taped. The sworn card counter catcher testimony
    posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends
    are obviously lying to this newsgroup in respect to this
    issue.


    9. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey and
    his associates) claimed that outside card counters were
    never used to help casinos identify suspect card counters.
    The sworn card counter catcher testimony posted herein
    proves irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are obviously
    lying to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.


    10. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey
    and his associates) claimed that even if you associate
    with a suspect card counter you will not be erroneously
    identified as a suspect card counter yourself. The sworn
    card counter catcher testimony posted herein proves
    irrefutably that Harvey and his friends are obviously lying
    to this newsgroup in respect to this issue.

    11. The con men casino agents posting here (like Harvey
    and his associates) claimed that classes were never held to
    teach dealers and floor personnel how to immediately
    identify card counters.
    They Lied (and in fact some of these system huckster
    authors WERE THE INSTRUCTORS teaching dealers how to
    identify card counters. The sworn card counter catcher
    testimony posted herein proves irrefutably that Harvey and
    his friends are obviously lying to this newsgroup in
    respect to this issue.


    And finally, note once again what Mr. Riordan (Max Rubin)
    said about the Sigma Report: ô
    "Oh, I saw the Sigma Report which was obviously self-serving
    because it was written by
    some people that want to count cards."



    I have posted several times that Harvey, Harkness BRubin, BingoBilly
    and their
    aliases are simply fabricating stories in a feeble attempt
    to discredit me. They know I have years of more in-casino
    experience than they will ever have, and that my teams won
    more money than any others. They are afraid their con game
    will be exposed by someone that really knows the details in
    respect to using a card counting system effectively against
    a real world casino. This post proves the con men are flagrantly
    lying to this newsgroup,
    and fabricating malicious libel in an attempt to discredit
    anyone that will tell the truth about their system failures.

    Note how court and sworn testimony has a way of bringing
    out the truth. Also note that this deposition was taken long before
    I started to post on RGB. So although
    Mr. Riordan was working for the TropWorld, he had no reason
    to lie about anything else
    involved in catching or identifying suspect card counters.
    What was it he said again, "50 WAYS YOU
    COULD BE PLACED IN THE SUSPECT CARD COUNTER BOOK!" Yep that
    is what he said.

    Also consider THIS DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN IN 1994. Since that
    date the casinos have went high-tech. So if you thought that Max
    Rubin's
    description of how suspect card counterswere identified then,
    you should hear how much easier it is
    for casinos today to label anyone a
    card counter in less than five minutes.

    Card counting systems are a BIG CON. Max Rubin's (A.K.A.
    Mike Riordan) sworn testimony (and dozens of other similar
    type depositions provided to the courts by other card
    counter catchers during the Campione case) provides
    irrefutable proof that the authors and software hucksters
    have been lying all along. They are using the fraudulent
    claim that card counting systems can still win to sell their
    worthless and dangerous systems, books and software. This
    post provides clear proof the con men hucksters and casino
    agents are lying to this newsgroup and their sucker clients.


    Doug Grant (Tm)


    .

    Blackjack is a fun game. It's more fun than poker. Basic Strategy let's one get close to winning, buy not quite. I can't stand poker. It sucks big time. Maybe I can make money playing poker, but it's just not fun.

    FUN... but misinterpreted by the crooks and cuckos featured in this thread...

    https://www.quora.com/Does-blackjack-come-as-close-as-anything-to-a-fair-game-in-a-casino
    • Does blackjack come as close as anything to a fair game in a casino?

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 5 04:41:44 2020
    You can get lost easily in public forums like this Usenet group. THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY POSTS!!!

    To solve the problem, I created a thread referring to the most relevant articles, materials, debates, systems, etc. I keep it updated and make sure it shows at the top of this Google group:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/rec.gambling.blackjack/yHJJBp0F9OU
    • The Best RGB Posts All-Matters Blackjack, Strategies, Systems, Card Counting, Inevitable Fights.

    Ion Saliu (royalty-name: Parpaluck),
    Founder of Blackjack Mathematics
    https://saliu.com/blackjackodds.html
    • Blackjack DEALER-BUST Software to Calculate TRUE Odds, Probability, House Edge.

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 20 08:33:50 2020
    Sez BJ Bishop Arnold Snyder, “Casino Player Magazine, November 1997”:

    “When I self-published my first book, ‘The Blackjack Formula’, in 1980, and advertised it in Gambling Times magazine with the catchy, upbeat slogan: ‘Card Counters Beware’ … stating in the ad that most of the blackjack games available in the
    casinos of the world were unbeatable with any card counting system … It is easier to make a living writing about this game [blackjack] than it is playing it. I have tried both, and I much prefer the keyboard to the cold green felt.”

    Read more fesses in this thread:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.gambling.blackjack/pcDm82yV56A
    • “The Candor of Famous Blackjack Card Counters”

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to Ion Saliu on Tue Aug 3 02:52:41 2021
    On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:33:52 PM UTC+3, Ion Saliu wrote:
    Sez BJ Bishop Arnold Snyder, “Casino Player Magazine, November 1997”:

    “When I self-published my first book, ‘The Blackjack Formula’, in 1980, and advertised it in Gambling Times magazine with the catchy, upbeat slogan: ‘Card Counters Beware’ … stating in the ad that most of the blackjack games available in
    the casinos of the world were unbeatable with any card counting system … It is easier to make a living writing about this game [blackjack] than it is playing it. I have tried both, and I much prefer the keyboard to the cold green felt.”

    Read more fesses in this thread:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.gambling.blackjack/pcDm82yV56A
    • “The Candor of Famous Blackjack Card Counters”

    Added this resource, asking if notorious Doug Grant ™ is still alive:

    https://www.gamblingforums.com/threads/doug-grant.397/
    • "Doug Grant?"

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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to Ion Saliu on Wed Mar 29 06:24:53 2023
    On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:33:52 PM UTC+3, Ion Saliu wrote:
    Sez BJ Bishop Arnold Snyder, “Casino Player Magazine, November 1997”:

    “When I self-published my first book, ‘The Blackjack Formula’, in 1980, and advertised it in Gambling Times magazine with the catchy, upbeat slogan: ‘Card Counters Beware’ … stating in the ad that most of the blackjack games available in
    the casinos of the world were unbeatable with any card counting system … It is easier to make a living writing about this game [blackjack] than it is playing it. I have tried both, and I much prefer the keyboard to the cold green felt.”

    Read more fesses in this thread:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.gambling.blackjack/pcDm82yV56A
    • “The Candor of Famous Blackjack Card Counters”

    Search-engine programming advanced with rapid paces. Now, they can interact with Netizens almost like human beings. There are AI chatbots that behave in the manner of human researchers. Read what the “artificial humans” “think” of ‘Ion Saliu’
    and his gambling theories, blackjack covered as well.

    https://saliu.com/ai-chatbots-ion-saliu.html
    • A Practical Essay on Artificial Intelligence, AI Chatbots Regarding Ion Saliu.

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