• how the left fights McCarthyism

    From RichD@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 17 15:07:38 2023
  • From Paul Popinjay@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 17 15:40:57 2023
    You don't know fuck about so-called "McCarthyism".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to RichD on Mon Apr 17 16:30:46 2023
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich


    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Paul Popinjay on Tue Apr 18 10:48:58 2023
    On April 17, Paul Popinjay wrote:
    You don't know fuck about so-called "McCarthyism".

    But the left does. They know it's a Top Ten atrocity of history, when
    some Hollywood script writers lost their jobs.

    Therefore, we need an endless series of movies, plays, and books,
    to ensure we never forget, and supply steady work to script writers.

    So, you endorse loyalty oaths?


    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Apr 18 10:45:14 2023
    On April 17, risky biz wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    They also claim the notion of "study and get ahead" is Euro- colonialism.

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Apr 18 12:26:03 2023
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 7:30:50 PM UTC-4, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    We are indeed. The phrase which enrages me is 'introducing different ways of knowing into Mathematics and Science'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Apr 18 12:33:47 2023
    On April 17, risky biz wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the
    phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    From the same Web site, a survey of N. Carolina registered voters:
    "UNC-Chapel Hill should promote freedom of thought and speech"

    27% were neutral, or disagreed.
    This is sick.


    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to risky biz on Tue Apr 18 15:52:25 2023
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Apr 18 16:10:36 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 3:52:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'
    .
    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum ...

    In violation of state law? Which ones?
    .
    .

    in order to keep certain
    ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Popinjay@21:1/5 to jack roth on Tue Apr 18 16:33:37 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 3:52:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.


    Certain ethnicities? Can I take one guess?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Tue Apr 18 23:44:58 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 4:10:41 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 3:52:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'
    .
    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum ...

    In violation of state law? Which ones?
    .
    .
    in order to keep certain
    ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.

    Requirements and standards from the states. Heck, even 27 states are using that common core bullshit to require students pass 3 math classes in high school.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to Paul Popinjay on Tue Apr 18 23:46:24 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 4:33:41 PM UTC-7, Paul Popinjay wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 3:52:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    Certain ethnicities? Can I take one guess?

    I'll give you a freebie here....it's NOT Asians.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to jack roth on Wed Apr 19 07:25:59 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 11:45:02 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 4:10:41 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 3:52:29 PM UTC-7, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'
    .
    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum ...

    In violation of state law? Which ones?
    .
    .

    *** Knew you couldn’t answer.. again ***
    .
    *** Knew you’ve been fed more conspiracy bullshit for you to puke out ***
    .
    .

    in order to keep certain
    ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    Requirements and standards from the states. Heck, even 27 states are using that common core bullshit to require students pass 3 math classes in high school.
    .

    *** Then advertise your ignorance of the whole subject ***

    Those right-wing sights feed you fools conspiracy theories by the pound. And when you’re shown
    To have been fooled, that you can’t show, you’re too embarrassed to admit it.

    LOL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Wed Apr 19 08:37:23 2023
    On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 6:52:29 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:30:50 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
    On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:07:43 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_147-0510,_Berlin,_Lustgarten,_Kundgebung_der_HJ.jpg

    --
    Rich
    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics, and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'
    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.

    Those ethnicities include white, middle class kids.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to jack roth on Wed Apr 19 14:23:14 2023
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.

    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Wed Apr 19 14:33:27 2023
    On April 18, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    The phrase which enrages me is 'introducing different ways of knowing into Mathematics and Science'

    Science is a social construct, invented by european imperialists.
    All truths are relative, depending on culture, and
    multiculturalism demands we treat all forms of knowledge with
    equality and respect.

    https://www.tcocdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/188-9-Tiruchirapalli.jpg


    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jack roth@21:1/5 to RichD on Wed Apr 19 17:10:23 2023
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich

    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to jack roth on Thu Apr 20 01:17:09 2023
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.

    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15% nationally (
    translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it appears that
    the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing something else,
    such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTSinAustin@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Apr 20 09:58:15 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15% nationally
    (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it appears that
    the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing something else,
    such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.


    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to BTSinAustin on Thu Apr 20 17:21:46 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.

    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of people
    who understand the STEM material.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Thu Apr 20 19:30:37 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:21:50 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of people
    who understand the STEM material.
    .

    Reminds me of my fight with Oregon. I fought the School Board because the state law was, high schoolers were required to have 4-years of PE, but only one year of math. (And to play sports, you had to have better than four Fs and a D).

    The State of Oregon change that to, Two years of math.
    (I hope it was because of me).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From risky biz@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Thu Apr 20 21:03:34 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 7:30:40 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:21:50 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of
    people who understand the STEM material.
    .


    ~ Reminds me of my fight with Oregon. I fought the School Board because the state law was, high schoolers were required to have 4-years of PE, but only one year of math. (And to play sports, you had to have better than four Fs and a D).

    The State of Oregon change that to, Two years of math.
    (I hope it was because of me).


    You should have asked them to give you one English composition class.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Norfolk@21:1/5 to VegasJerry on Fri Apr 21 08:58:27 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:30:40 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:21:50 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of
    people who understand the STEM material.
    .

    Reminds me of my fight with Oregon. I fought the School Board because the state law was, high schoolers were required to have 4-years of PE, but only one year of math. (And to play sports, you had to have better than four Fs and a D).

    The State of Oregon change that to, Two years of math.
    (I hope it was because of me).

    I watched as Ohio went from requiring one year of Math, to 2, and finally to 4, including Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II. It has has actually made the competence worse, as the good students, who would previously have been challenged, are now just
    allowed to coast through.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BTSinAustin@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Apr 21 10:56:19 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 8:21:50 PM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of people
    who understand the STEM material.

    Agree, there would have to be placement tests to put people in the proper carrier path.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to Tim Norfolk on Fri Apr 21 12:07:38 2023
    On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 8:58:31 AM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:30:40 PM UTC-4, VegasJerry wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:21:50 PM UTC-7, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of
    people who understand the STEM material.
    .

    Reminds me of my fight with Oregon. I fought the School Board because the state law was, high schoolers were required to have 4-years of PE, but only one year of math. (And to play sports, you had to have better than four Fs and a D).

    The State of Oregon change that to, Two years of math.
    (I hope it was because of me).
    I watched as Ohio went from requiring one year of Math, to 2, and finally to 4, including Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II. It has has actually made the competence worse, as the good students, who would previously have been challenged, are now just
    allowed to coast through.
    .

    My argument at the meeting was that 100% of the students that graduated needed math in one form or another at any job they got. That by requiring some math every year, the good students would progress to all algebra, calculus, as far as they could go.
    Lesser students would at least learn something each year, if not going from 2+2=4 to the next year of 3+3=6, etc.. At least at the end of 4 years, they’d progressed each year.

    That year they expanded the football field to where they had to cut out part of the school library. And the only math teacher quit (to go into the new field of computers) and was replaced by the only biology teacher. (As reported to by son, who lost that
    math teacher).

    They still had six assistant principals and six football coaches. This was a typical one-horse town, (The Dalles, OR) similar to what they have in Texas, where football is king and to hell with actually getting kids educated.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VegasJerry@21:1/5 to BTSinAustin on Fri Apr 21 12:12:22 2023
    On Friday, April 21, 2023 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 8:21:50 PM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, BTSinAustin wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:17:13 AM UTC-4, Tim Norfolk wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-4, jack roth wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 2:23:18 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote:
    On April 18, jack roth wrote:
    https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/the-new-loyalty-oaths

    'When we are talking about decolonizing mathematics, reimagining “white” physics,
    and treating the phrase “field work” as a racist microaggression, the sciences are actively
    going over the edge into mysticism and irrationality'

    There are literally schools out here dropping math from the curriculum in
    order to keep certain ethnicities from getting bad grades and suffering low self esteem.
    I heard of a school district that dropped basketball, because certain
    ethnicities had low rebound averages.

    --
    Rich
    Well maybe the difference is basketball isn't a life skill, whereas, you are probably going to need some math skills throughout your life....even if you are going to end up a pimp, drug dealer, or street ho.
    To clarify my original comment, the percentage of US 12th grade students who know Algebra I (8th/9th grade) well enough to take the course called College Algebra (actually the 10th grade Algebra II), is about 15% nationally. It was about 15%
    nationally (translating to about 20% of college freshmen) when I started teaching in 1978, despite two generations of "innovation". Most of the students who have trouble with Algebra also have difficulty with fractions. Looking at other countries, it
    appears that the figures are similar, except that many places, such as Singapore, simply stop teaching Math and Science to students who do not demonstrate aptitude by age 14 or so. In the UK, this used to be at age 16. This does not preclude them doing
    something else, such as studying Law. It is basically only the US which insists that "everyone can learn this", and makes millions suffer, while blaming their teachers and watering the material down.
    The perfect argument for putting trade schools back in the line up.
    I agree. One tiny problem is that getting an electrician's license requires mastery of Mathematics at least up through the Algebra II level, machinists often have MS degrees to operate the machine tools, etc. It's a world which requires lots of
    people who understand the STEM material.
    Agree, there would have to be placement tests to put people in the proper carrier path.
    .

    During the Vietnam buildup, when Bush was smart enough not to try a draft, they advertised to high school kids, “Get your educations in the military!” “Score GI Bill money for school by joining the military!” “Get a big sign-up bonus to save
    for schooling by joining the military!” 50,000 kids died for that education money…

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)