• Refugee from Reddit.

    From Michael Lush@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 16 09:25:37 2023
    What with all the kerfuffle over on Reddit perhaps it is time for a Usenet revival... though I guess the moderation system A) needs someone at the wheel and B) needs an overhaul to bring it into the 21st century

    Michael
    --
    NPC Rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too

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  • From Laurens Kils-Huetten@21:1/5 to Michael Lush on Fri Jun 16 20:10:15 2023
    Michael Lush <mjlush@gmail.com> wrote:
    What with all the kerfuffle over on Reddit perhaps it is time for a
    Usenet revival...

    yep, some of us are still here! And there seems to be a trickle of users
    giving usenet a new try.

    There's also a tiny new gaming related hierarchy over here: https://campaignwiki.org/news It's isolated from regular usenet yet,
    but it uses the same technology.

    though I guess the moderation system A) needs someone at the wheel

    hm, I don't know, how much moderation do we need? This place has worked
    without moderation for decades.

    and B) needs an overhaul to bring it into the 21st century

    for me usenet works just fine the old school way. But thunderbird works
    quite nicely and apparently there's a decent client for iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/newstap-usenet-newsreader/id292410356

    cheers,

    lkh

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  • From Michael Lush@21:1/5 to Laurens Kils-Huetten on Fri Jun 16 15:04:43 2023
    On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 9:10:17 PM UTC+1, Laurens Kils-Huetten wrote:
    Michael Lush <> wrote:

    There's also a tiny new gaming related hierarchy over here: https://campaignwiki.org/news It's isolated from regular usenet yet,
    but it uses the same technology.
    Interesting will have a look at that

    though I guess the moderation system A) needs someone at the wheel
    hm, I don't know, how much moderation do we need? This place has worked without moderation for decades.

    If /r/rpg turn up en masse we will need moderation, those Green Card lawyers are still out there waiting to pounce

    and B) needs an overhaul to bring it into the 21st century
    for me usenet works just fine the old school way. But thunderbird works quite nicely and apparently there's a decent client for iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/newstap-usenet-newsreader/id292410356

    I'm so worried about the client software, but j I'm willing to bet the server software is pretty vulnerable
    by modern standards. it used to be pretty easy to send out cancels to posts and newsgroups and things will really
    go down the drain when copyright infringement poisons the well.

    mjl

    cheers,

    lkh

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  • From news@zzo38computer.org.invalid@21:1/5 to Michael Lush on Sat Jun 17 10:57:30 2023
    Michael Lush <mjlush@gmail.com> wrote:
    What with all the kerfuffle over on Reddit perhaps it is time for a Usenet revival...

    I think NNTP is certainly much better than Reddit, anyways. No central
    account is needed and no web browser is needed, and you do not need to
    use their user interface (and many web pages have excessive animation
    and inefficiency so it is slow and uses up too much memory and power);
    with NNTP you can use your own, so it is much better.

    Also note that you can set up your own server if wanted, and can also
    make messages federated between servers if wanted too. However, the Big 8
    and alt.* can also be used on existing servers (e.g. Eternal September),
    so it is not always necessary to set up your own.

    (I had sometimes read Reddit but not write anything there, because I think
    that NNTP is much better. I have my own NNTP server set up, although it
    is hardly used much so far.)

    I guess the moderation system A) needs someone at the wheel
    and B) needs an overhaul to bring it into the 21st century

    I think often the moderation may be not needed so much, although sometimes
    it might be helpful. I also think that many of the modern designs are no
    good, so should not always use merely because they are modern.

    What might be helpful is a standardized format for "global scoring".
    Moderators can add global scores and other users can optionally install
    the global scores or not; users can still add their own private scores
    too if desired. This should be a simple format that does not need to use
    modern more complicated stuff such as JSON, XML, HTML, JavaScripts, etc.
    A simple plain ASCII text format would be better, I think.

    When messages are being flooded in the server, then something more would
    be helpful such as to block users and to delete articles; if such a thing becomes common in some newsgroups then requiring an account registration
    might be helpful. However, such as registration should be made to work
    without a web browser (and especially without reCAPTCHA and JavaScripts
    and CSS etc), if possible.

    (I also think that Unicode is no good. There are other character sets if
    you need them though (including TRON code), which can be helpful to write
    in many other languages, but Unicode is no good.)

    --
    Don't laugh at the moon when it is day time in France.

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  • From John@21:1/5 to Michael Lush on Tue Jun 20 04:40:03 2023
    Michael Lush <mjlush@gmail.com> writes:

    On Friday, June 16, 2023 at 9:10:17 PM UTC+1, Laurens Kils-Huetten wrote:
    hm, I don't know, how much moderation do we need? This place has worked
    without moderation for decades.

    If /r/rpg turn up en masse we will need moderation, those Green Card lawyers are still out there waiting to pounce

    I've seen two kinds of spam on Usenet:

    * Straight-up advertisements like you see elsewhere
    * Obsessive lunatics who post the same 10000 word screed over and over
    * again.

    The latter is easy to killfile because they usually use the same
    identity and frequently the same post titles over and over again.

    The former, well, I see more nymshifting but the content is still pretty repetitive and easy to match against.

    With Usenet, you have both user-level (scoring/killfiles) and
    server-level controls. At the server level, the admin can put various
    filters in place and, perhaps more effective, just drop any articles
    which originated at a bad server (I'm sorely tempted to just drop
    anything originating at Google Groups, 99% of spam seems to come from
    there).

    Oh, and there's also NoCeM, although I've never used it (http://www.cm.org/faq.html) it basically lets you subscribe to
    third-party blocklists.

    and B) needs an overhaul to bring it into the 21st century
    for me usenet works just fine the old school way. But thunderbird works
    quite nicely and apparently there's a decent client for iOS:
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/newstap-usenet-newsreader/id292410356

    I'm so worried about the client software, but j I'm willing to bet the server software is pretty vulnerable
    by modern standards. it used to be pretty easy to send out cancels to posts and newsgroups and things will really
    go down the drain when copyright infringement poisons the well.

    You can send out cancels but I don't know that anybody actually honors
    an un-signed cancel message these days.

    I'm not sure what you mean about copyright infringement, either -- I
    guess people could post sections of copyrighted modules etc.?

    john

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  • From Laurens Kils-Huetten@21:1/5 to news@zzo38computer.org.invalid on Tue Jun 20 22:13:50 2023
    news@zzo38computer.org.invalid wrote:
    Michael Lush <mjlush@gmail.com> wrote:
    What with all the kerfuffle over on Reddit perhaps it is time for a Usenet revival...

    I think NNTP is certainly much better than Reddit, anyways. No central account is needed and no web browser is needed, and you do not need to
    use their user interface (and many web pages have excessive animation
    and inefficiency so it is slow and uses up too much memory and power);
    with NNTP you can use your own, so it is much better.

    I agree, apart from the technical side, I'm really tired of the marketing aesthetic, that comes with almost any web site.

    [...]

    (I also think that Unicode is no good. There are other character sets if
    you need them though (including TRON code), which can be helpful to write
    in many other languages, but Unicode is no good.)

    Hm, I don't think I agree. What's your grief with unicode?

    Cheers,

    lkh

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  • From Alexa Schroeder@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 21 20:49:24 2023
    Laurens Kils-Huetten, 2023-06-20 22:13:
    I agree, apart from the technical side, I'm really tired of the
    marketing aesthetic, that comes with almost any web site.

    It's an interesting aspect: People feel compelled to reproduce the busy websites because the corporate websites do it. And if you don't
    reproduce, they feel alienated, or maybe just surprised, I don't know.
    In any case, the visual similarity counts as a boon.

    I keep posting about netnews and the austere web front-end I have for it
    at <https://campaignwiki.org/news>, calling it a "forum" and saying that
    people need to send me an email to "register", but there really is no
    demand.

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  • From Laurens Kils-Huetten@21:1/5 to Alex Schroeder on Wed Jun 21 21:11:02 2023
    Alex Schroeder <alex@alexschroeder.ch> wrote:
    Alex Schroeder, 2023-06-21 20:49:
    ... but there really is no demand.

    Oh, I think my last post to rec.games.frp.misc was 1998-06-01, about a
    Fate game I had bought. <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.misc/c/TKhdo2MDPig/m/vTjRUHJx zQ8J>
    Emacs tells me that was 9151 days ago. :)

    Amazing! Almost sounds like it was Fudge, though.

    --
    https://octodon.social/@lkh
    IRC: lkh on Libera.chat and others
    Discord: lkh#2319

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  • From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 21 20:55:55 2023
    Alex Schroeder, 2023-06-21 20:49:
    ... but there really is no demand.

    Oh, I think my last post to rec.games.frp.misc was 1998-06-01, about a
    Fate game I had bought. <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.misc/c/TKhdo2MDPig/m/vTjRUHJx
    zQ8J>
    Emacs tells me that was 9151 days ago. :)

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  • From Alex Schroeder@21:1/5 to Laurens Kils-Huetten on Wed Jun 21 23:13:41 2023
    Laurens Kils-Huetten <lkh@sdf-eu.org> writes:

    Oh, I think my last post to rec.games.frp.misc was 1998-06-01, about a
    Fate game I had bought.

    Amazing! Almost sounds like it was Fudge, though.

    Gaah! It totally was. Fate was 2003.

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