I have been feeding an organic (apples in water) starter fer a week. At
8K ft elevation, I put it in the fridge at night and let it warm during
the day (in a sealed 5L plastic container).

It has all the bubbles of a viable starter. Nothing but KA bread flour
+ water + a little high gluten flour (no yeast).

I mistakenly left it out, last night, and it has plenty o' bubbles, this morning, and and a good "web" structure. It had some dark liquid on the surface. I mixed in the dark liquid and skimmed the hard crust off the top.

Now what?

nb

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On 2019-04-16 7:23 a.m., notbob wrote:

I have been feeding an organic (apples in water) starter fer a week.  At
8K ft elevation, I put it in the fridge at night and let it warm during
the day (in a sealed 5L plastic container).

It has all the bubbles of a viable starter.  Nothing but KA bread flour
+ water + a little high gluten flour (no yeast).

I mistakenly left it out, last night, and it has plenty o' bubbles, this morning, and and a good "web" structure.  It had some dark liquid on the surface.  I mixed in the dark liquid and skimmed the hard crust off the
top.

Now what?

nb

Take a couple of Tbsps of the starter (discarding the rest) and feed it
with flour and water. Do this several times. DON'T put it in the fridge
until you have a good, powerful starter and need to store it.
BTW, if there ever is liquid on the surface, pour it off! It contains
alcohol as a by-product of fermentation and will only inhibit bug
development.
I keep mine in a mason jar and when I feed it, I put an rubber band on
the jar to mark the level. I can then see how the starter is working.
When it doubles in volume in 3-4 hours in a warm place, you have a good,
strong culture.
Just my 10c worth:-)
Graham

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On 4/16/2019 9:06 AM, graham wrote:

Take a couple of Tbsps of the starter (discarding the rest) and feed it
with flour and water. Do this several times. DON'T put it in the fridge
until you have a good, powerful starter and need to store it.
BTW, if there ever is liquid on the surface, pour it off! It contains
alcohol as a by-product of fermentation and will only inhibit bug development.

Thank you, graham, for your timely reply.

I have found a U2B video that shows a live starter from King Arthur
(KA). Since I use a lotta KA flour (bread, 100% whole wheat, organic
APF, etc), I thought it would be nice to see what a live starter looks
like. KA makes one and it's nice to see it. Interesting!

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMTUaq8Rrk

Feel free to comment. The video is "Vino Farm" (lower right corner)

I've been watching Ken Rollins (chuck wagon cook) make SD everything,
but he sez "never" in plastic and seldom bakes @ 8K ft elev. He
recommends 1-1/2qt "crock" which the guy from Vino Farm is totally
against. I'm going fer consistency rather than exact measurements.

Plus, Ken recommends mixing in the alcohol "dark" liquid (he also uses "instant" yeast). (I have brewed whole grain beer so know what "kriek
lambics" are).

Otherwise, when it comes to bread, I have no idea what I'm doing. Am
watching KA's vids on sourdough, now. ;)

nb

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On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 11:55:23 -0600, notbob <notbob@q.com> wrote:

On 4/16/2019 9:06 AM, graham wrote:

Take a couple of Tbsps of the starter (discarding the rest) and feed it
with flour and water. Do this several times. DON'T put it in the fridge
until you have a good, powerful starter and need to store it.
BTW, if there ever is liquid on the surface, pour it off! It contains
alcohol as a by-product of fermentation and will only inhibit bug
development.

Thank you, graham, for your timely reply.

I have found a U2B video that shows a live starter from King Arthur
(KA). Since I use a lotta KA flour (bread, 100% whole wheat, organic
APF, etc), I thought it would be nice to see what a live starter looks
like. KA makes one and it's nice to see it. Interesting!

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMTUaq8Rrk

Feel free to comment. The video is "Vino Farm" (lower right corner)

I've been watching Ken Rollins (chuck wagon cook) make SD everything,
but he sez "never" in plastic and seldom bakes @ 8K ft elev. He
recommends 1-1/2qt "crock" which the guy from Vino Farm is totally
against. I'm going fer consistency rather than exact measurements.

Plus, Ken recommends mixing in the alcohol "dark" liquid (he also uses >"instant" yeast). (I have brewed whole grain beer so know what "kriek >lambics" are).

Otherwise, when it comes to bread, I have no idea what I'm doing. Am >watching KA's vids on sourdough, now. ;)

nb

The liquid is often referred to as "hooch" by acolytes of the Holy
Order of SD Junkies. Some keep it all, some dump it all, some take a
middle road.

Early on in my SD days, I bought a crock from KA to use for SD. I used
it for awhile and went back to Rubbermaid or similar because the crock
never offered a perfect seal for long-term storage in the fridge
(sometimes my starters lounge in the fridge for weeks)

These days, I use the containers for Talenti ice cream- they are
perfect for me.

You might enjoy reading this:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/sourdough-library

One thing to know about bread baking is that there is no "right way"
of doing things and that extends a tad into the starters, too. Not
only are there those who say to never use plastic containers, but
some also warn folks off using metal utensils to mix, too. I have
found no diffs.

Insofar as the bread baking, you will find a lot of advice online and
in videos. You are smart enough to grasp the overall of that - some
will be the equivalent of "Einstein Does Bread" and some will be,
basically, full of it. Hard to tell the diff at the beginning.

You can find interesting reading at http://www.thefreshloaf.com. They
have lots of advice and the good thing about it is that is a
well-established community that will happily crowd-source its opinions
about posted techniques or recipes, so you get a bit of background and
guidance toward the more logical of the postings.

Bread baking can be tricky, as the very same recipe that gave you
perfect results with one flour, or on a warm, humid day, might give
you dreck with another flour or chilly weather. The thing to learn is
how to judge your dough progress based on how it looks, feels and
behaves as you make the breads.

Granted, I am way more "liberal" in (almost never) paying attention to
a recipe than most peeps are, and I cop to that flaw, but knowing how hydration, gluten development, proofing and shaping affect your loaves
will go far in helping you create good bread regardless of the recipe.

The definition of good bread, by the way, is any loaf you like.

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On 4/16/2019 11:55 AM, notbob wrote:

Otherwise, when it comes to bread, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Am watching KA's vids on sourdough, now.   ;)

A couple more questions:

1.) Do I need a banetton proofing basket?

2.) Is a "primed" starter the same thing as an "active" starter?

nb

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On 2019-04-16 12:21 p.m., notbob wrote:

On 4/16/2019 11:55 AM, notbob wrote:

Otherwise, when it comes to bread, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Am
watching KA's vids on sourdough, now.   ;)

A couple more questions:

1.) Do I need a banetton proofing basket?

2.) Is a "primed" starter the same thing as an "active" starter?

nb

You don't need a banneton although they are nice to have for free-form
loaves. If you want to get one, I highly recommend those made from
pressed wood fibre like these if you can find them in the US:

https://www.bakerybits.co.uk/bakery-equipment/proving-baskets-and-cloths/1kg-mill-pattern-brotform.html

I have seen them advertised by US suppliers but I couldn't find one when
I did a quick check. Mine has ridges to imitate the coiled cane
brotforms, which I also have as well as French-style, linen lined ones.
The pressed fibre one is so much easier to use, I find.
Note in my other post that Dick Adams bakes his SD in tins.

I would imagine that primed starter is just a flour/water mix to which a
seed of Starter has been added. After a few hours, it's active.

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On 2019-04-16 11:55 a.m., notbob wrote:

On 4/16/2019 9:06 AM, graham wrote:

Take a couple of Tbsps of the starter (discarding the rest) and feed
it with flour and water. Do this several times. DON'T put it in the
fridge until you have a good, powerful starter and need to store it.
BTW, if there ever is liquid on the surface, pour it off! It contains
alcohol as a by-product of fermentation and will only inhibit bug
development.

Thank you, graham, for your timely reply.

I have found a U2B video that shows a live starter from King Arthur
(KA).  Since I use a lotta KA flour (bread, 100% whole wheat, organic
APF, etc), I thought it would be nice to see what a live starter looks like.  KA makes one and it's nice to see it.  Interesting!

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMTUaq8Rrk

Feel free to comment.  The video is "Vino Farm" (lower right corner)

I've been watching Ken Rollins (chuck wagon cook) make SD everything,
but he sez "never" in plastic and seldom bakes @ 8K ft elev.  He
recommends 1-1/2qt "crock" which the guy from Vino Farm is totally
against.  I'm going fer consistency rather than exact measurements.

Plus, Ken recommends mixing in the alcohol "dark" liquid (he also uses "instant" yeast).  (I have brewed whole grain beer so know what "kriek lambics" are).

Otherwise, when it comes to bread, I have no idea what I'm doing.  Am watching KA's vids on sourdough, now.   ;)

nb

I recommend this Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxFkUYz8LY

In fact, Breadtopia.com is a very good place to start. Like the guy in
this video, I keep my starter fairly stiff, 65g water to 100g flour.

Here's the grand-daddy of SD pages: http://carlsfriends.net/

Dick Adams, who used to post here regularly, has an excellent recipe: http://carlsfriends.net/dickpics/billowy.html

Note that he makes loaves in tins! My only difference with Dick is that
I start baking at ~450F, not from cold as he suggests.

There is so much SD folklore out there and as I wrote before, stirring
in the hooch makes NO sense. The idea that the wild yeast is in the air
is mostly nonsense - there's not enough to make a difference unless you
live in a bakery or brewery:-) Most of it is on the surface of the grain
- hence I started my culture with WW (and rye) flour, using white to
feed after the culture got going.

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On 4/16/2019 1:37 PM, graham wrote:

65g water to 100g flour.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks, graham. ;)

nb

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On 4/16/2019 12:55 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Early on in my SD days, I bought a crock from KA to use for SD. I used
it for awhile and went back to Rubbermaid or similar because the crock
never offered a perfect seal for long-term storage in the fridge
(sometimes my starters lounge in the fridge for weeks)

One thing to know about bread baking is that there is no "right way"
of doing things and that extends a tad into the starters, too. Not
only are there those who say to never use plastic containers, but
some also warn folks off using metal utensils to mix, too. I have
found no diffs.

I like yer style.

Took me 2 yrs of making pies to get the crust jes right. Now, it's a
cinch.

Ken Rollins suggests a 1-1/2 qt crock-pot covered with a do-rag cuz he
sez, "If you hear a sound like a shotgun in the middle of the night,
it's yer starter exploding in that sealed container". Recall I sed Ken
uses, "instant yeast".

I'll get it. Thanks for the tips, Boron. ;)

nb

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On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 14:16:19 -0600, notbob <notbob@q.com> wrote:

On 4/16/2019 12:55 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Early on in my SD days, I bought a crock from KA to use for SD. I used
it for awhile and went back to Rubbermaid or similar because the crock
never offered a perfect seal for long-term storage in the fridge
(sometimes my starters lounge in the fridge for weeks)

One thing to know about bread baking is that there is no "right way"
of doing things and that extends a tad into the starters, too. Not
only are there those who say to never use plastic containers, but
some also warn folks off using metal utensils to mix, too. I have
found no diffs.

I like yer style.

Took me 2 yrs of making pies to get the crust jes right. Now, it's a
cinch.

Ken Rollins suggests a 1-1/2 qt crock-pot covered with a do-rag cuz he
sez, "If you hear a sound like a shotgun in the middle of the night,
it's yer starter exploding in that sealed container". Recall I sed Ken
uses, "instant yeast".

I'll get it. Thanks for the tips, Boron. ;)

nb

Happy to help. Always.

The way not to pop the top on a starter container is to deal in really
small amounts until you are doing a build (creating enough for a
specific recipe) for a loaf.

I admit to an overflow here and there over the years, strictly by my
won silliness and overgenerosity is normal refreshment.

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On 2019-04-16 7:23 a.m., notbob wrote:

I have been feeding an organic (apples in water) starter fer a week.  At
8K ft elevation, I put it in the fridge at night and let it warm during
the day (in a sealed 5L plastic container).

It has all the bubbles of a viable starter.  Nothing but KA bread flour
+ water + a little high gluten flour (no yeast).

I mistakenly left it out, last night, and it has plenty o' bubbles, this morning, and and a good "web" structure.  It had some dark liquid on the surface.  I mixed in the dark liquid and skimmed the hard crust off the
top.

Now what?

nb

You might like to try this recipe: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-fougasse/

The site is a good one to follow.
Graham

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