On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 5:27:55 PM UTC-6, Donald wrote:

Since there has been some posts here from real sourdough enthusiasts,
I thought I'd try posting this question.

Has anyone here found a way to use an automatic breadmaker to make
sourdough bread?

I see them at thrift stores for less than $10 on almost every visit,
and some are complete with instructions and even unused!

The problem I see is the rise time of sourdough being way longer than
what can be set in a bread maker. I;m not sure how to get around that limitation so I've always made my sourdough bread using my stand mixer
for the basic mixing and hand kneading for working the dough between
rises, then the oven for the final part of it.

If there isn't enough activity here I can try the Fresh Loaf site and
the Facebook group someone mentioned here (I joined it).

Donald

I use the Kneading cycle for the first rise. Then, take out the dough, remove the paddle blade, return the dough to the machine. the set to cook. It will go thru the entire cycle; but since the paddle is removed, the knead cycle is just the spindle
spinning, the dough is undisturbed. Works good.

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The original poster added "If there isn't enough activity here I can try the Fresh Loaf site". I unfortunately do the same when activity slows to a crawl here, but have found that there are much less serious sourdough enthusiasts there, more like a
plethora of wannabes that believe Peter Reinhart is the god of all things made from flour, and that sugar, honey, grapes, sawdust, or shredded bird cage underlayments are the best way to coax sourdough starter to bubble. You have come to the right place
by visiting here, even though the postings of the true sourdough gods (who's teachings have kept my starter crock bubbling over, and my breadbox forever full) are now few and far between, there is a wealth of their knowledge that can be gleaned from
archived posts or the sourdough faq. Yes, you will find your bread machine advice at the Fresh Loaf, and no doubt there will be those touting the virtues of it's use. This is actually the same type of thing I was looking for when I first found rec.food.
sourdough newsgroup. Within a few short weeks I totally abandoned this path and gave my bread machine away, and am very glad I did. By the way, that 10$ you thought was such a good deal could go a long way with simple sourdough bread making, you don't
really need allot of fancy toys or ingredients to make great bread for pennies a loaf. Whatever you do, happy baking!

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Thanks!!!

For now I've chosen to stick with my Kitchen Aid stand mixer to do the
kneading and a manual process for the rest of it. This gives me the
flexibility of adjusting the time for the rise to punch-down and the
second rise in case the starter isn't as active as it should be.

The only automatic bread maker that has a long enough resting time
seems to be that expensive Panasonic one a few shared a link to here.
I'm not spending that much on something that still probably would need
some regular yeast to make thigns rise fast enough to use the
appliance to make sourdough bread. Otherwise, it looks to be a fine
machine. I almost bought a Panasonic breadmaker at a thrift store, one
much like that one but not stainless steel. But it will take up yet
more counter space that I don't have, and I already have to move some
things from our back room to the kitchen and back to use them when
they aren't used regularly.

I'll be posting my liquid starter read making process and how to make
a liquid starter from dried starter culture or a "wet dough" type.
That's the only type I"ve even used and I like how it is forgiving in
that you can switch the amounts of warm water and starter to get more
liquid starter into the bread dough and get it going faster if it's
not as active as it should be.

Donald


On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 07:31:10 -0800 (PST), hutchndi <hutchndi@cox.net>
wrote:

Within a few short weeks I totally abandoned this path and gave my bread machine away, and am very glad I did. By the way, that 10$ you thought was such a good deal could go a long way with simple sourdough bread making, you don't really need allot of

fancy toys or ingredients to make great bread for pennies a loaf. Whatever you do, happy baking!

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On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 5:27:55 PM UTC-6, Donald wrote:

Since there has been some posts here from real sourdough enthusiasts,
I thought I'd try posting this question.

Has anyone here found a way to use an automatic breadmaker to make
sourdough bread?

I see them at thrift stores for less than $10 on almost every visit,
and some are complete with instructions and even unused!

The problem I see is the rise time of sourdough being way longer than
what can be set in a bread maker. I;m not sure how to get around that limitation so I've always made my sourdough bread using my stand mixer
for the basic mixing and hand kneading for working the dough between
rises, then the oven for the final part of it.

If there isn't enough activity here I can try the Fresh Loaf site and
the Facebook group someone mentioned here (I joined it).

Donald

did you get what you ate looking for? I need the same answers. Thanks

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On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:19:38 -0700 (PDT), leedo2c@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 5:27:55 PM UTC-6, Donald wrote:

Since there has been some posts here from real sourdough enthusiasts,
I thought I'd try posting this question.

Has anyone here found a way to use an automatic breadmaker to make
sourdough bread?

I see them at thrift stores for less than $10 on almost every visit,
and some are complete with instructions and even unused!

The problem I see is the rise time of sourdough being way longer than
what can be set in a bread maker. I;m not sure how to get around that
limitation so I've always made my sourdough bread using my stand mixer
for the basic mixing and hand kneading for working the dough between
rises, then the oven for the final part of it.

If there isn't enough activity here I can try the Fresh Loaf site and
the Facebook group someone mentioned here (I joined it).

Donald

did you get what you ate looking for? I need the same answers. Thanks

Sourdough does not need kneading twice. Once is enough. I do
it by hand. Knead well once, allow to rise a tiny bit and then shape.
My mother, who is in her 90's uses her bread maker to knead
the dough, then pulls the plug, plugs it in after the dough rises and
chooses "bake". I have no idea what make the machine is or what the
buttons actually say. It is > 10 years old.
I sort of "noticed" the way she does it when I was visiting.
So choose a bread maker that allows you to manually set it. A
fully "auto" won't let the dough rise enough.
HTH but probably doesn't....
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 12:43:16 PM UTC-7, Shadow wrote:

Sourdough does not need kneading twice. Once is enough. I do
it by hand. Knead well once, allow to rise a tiny bit and then shape.
My mother, who is in her 90's uses her bread maker to knead
the dough, then pulls the plug, plugs it in after the dough rises and
chooses "bake". I have no idea what make the machine is or what the
buttons actually say. It is > 10 years old.
I sort of "noticed" the way she does it when I was visiting.
So choose a bread maker that allows you to manually set it. A
fully "auto" won't let the dough rise enough.
HTH but probably doesn't....
[]'s

I do the same thing that your mother seems to be doing, in a way. I have an automatic bread maker (the "cheapest" Cuisinart one, I think it's a CBK-100) that I use for mixing and then kneading once. It beeps when it cycles through different stages, so
when it's done kneading, it beeps and gives me time to turn it off (otherwise it would start to bake). I then pull out the dough, throw it into the refrigerator overnight, and use a dutch oven to bake it the next day. Works great!

The biggest drawback is it's just so bulky that I can't keep it on the counter top.

I also have an old Kitchenaid stand mixer (bulky, but no where to hide it), but have not been able to get it to knead my sourdough dough -- I think my dough is just too hydrated and the mixer with the dough hook doesn't seem to work well at all (even
with a doubled recipe).

So here's a question: how hydrated is just enough hydrated to use the stand mixer for a first (and only) knead?

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On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham
<erksome@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 12:43:16 PM UTC-7, Shadow wrote:

Sourdough does not need kneading twice. Once is enough. I do
it by hand. Knead well once, allow to rise a tiny bit and then shape.
My mother, who is in her 90's uses her bread maker to knead
the dough, then pulls the plug, plugs it in after the dough rises and
chooses "bake". I have no idea what make the machine is or what the
buttons actually say. It is > 10 years old.
I sort of "noticed" the way she does it when I was visiting.
So choose a bread maker that allows you to manually set it. A
fully "auto" won't let the dough rise enough.
HTH but probably doesn't....
[]'s

I do the same thing that your mother seems to be doing, in a way. I have an automatic bread maker (the "cheapest" Cuisinart one, I think it's a CBK-100) that I use for mixing and then kneading once. It beeps when it cycles through different stages, so

when it's done kneading, it beeps and gives me time to turn it off (otherwise it would start to bake). I then pull out the dough, throw it into the refrigerator overnight, and use a dutch oven to bake it the next day. Works great!

The biggest drawback is it's just so bulky that I can't keep it on the counter top.

I also have an old Kitchenaid stand mixer (bulky, but no where to hide it), but have not been able to get it to knead my sourdough dough -- I think my dough is just too hydrated and the mixer with the dough hook doesn't seem to work well at all (even

with a doubled recipe).

So here's a question: how hydrated is just enough hydrated to use the stand mixer for a first (and only) knead?

Sorry, I haven't visited this group in a while.

You have to go by "feel". Not sure what my hydration is. This
will probably work, you might need to add more flour for a mechanical
mixer IOW "dough does not stick to hands at all".

Different makes and even batches of flour here in Brazil vary
so much I can't do precise measurements.

My guideline is:

1500 ml liquid - I use about 400ml of starter (but less if it's
really hot) and complete the volume with lukewarm water.
160 grams sugar (so it forms a nice brown crust)
120 grams oil (makes the bread slightly softer, I use soy)

Mix flour (using a spoon) with above to a creamy consistency,
let it stand for 30 min.

Add 40 grams of salt.

Mix again with spoon, then add flour (varies) until I get a
"doesn't quite want to stick to my hands" dough. Knead for 10 minutes
or so and then put it in pans to rise. I use Teflon, so I don't have
to grease the pans. And the bread just falls out as soon as it's baked
and doesn't get soggy, i.e. nice crust.

The recipe makes about three 800 gram pan breads, three 14"
(300 gram) and three 12" (280 gram) pizza crusts.

Total just over 4000 grams of dough. I bake when the dough
leaves an indentation when I press my finger on it (doesn't spring
back). That can take anything from 4-8 hours.

Freeze the pizzas as soon as they are cold from baking (I bake
both sides).
I leave the bread overnight, then cut it in slices and freeze
that too. Makes great toast or faux-mini-pizzas.

Note, I take my starter out of the fridge 2 days before and
feed until it's really active.
The recipe lasts me about 2 months. If you want to try it,
maybe halve all the ingredients.
It's not an exact science though - too many variables.
HTH
[]'s



--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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Hello Shadow,

Thanks very much for the detailed information! I am impressed with your method and now very much excited to try to make your pizza crust. I also very much like the idea of making a bunch of crusts, baking them, and freezing them. I wonder if my
freezer is big enough...

I am in eastern Washington State, USA, where our humidity and temperature are probably not as crazy as yours, although it does seem like I always need to adjust my recipes on the fly. Perhaps it's just the nature of sourdough.

My method for making pizza crust using my sourdough is roughly this:

1 and 3/4 cup active sourdough starter (near 100% hydration)
~1.5 cup flour (can sub 1/2 cup whole wheat, masa)
2 tsp salt, 4 Tbs olive oil, 2 tsp sugar

This makes enough for 2 large doughs. This dough is definitely drier than my bread dough, which is very sticky. Note that I don't use any added water, just the wet starter. After mixing, I immediately roll out the crusts and then put them on a baking
sheet with corn meal so they don't stick. I don't let them rise.

I then fire up the grill as hot as I can get it and grill one side of the crust, just sliding the dough onto the grate, popping large bubbles as they form, and turning it once or twice to get a good, even brown on the one side.

I then take the half-cooked crust off the grill and flip it onto my baking sheet again, cooked side up, take it inside and put toppings on the cooked side. I will then take the topped pizza back out and put it back on the grill, but on low heat, to
brown the uncooked side and get the toppings hot (melt the cheese). This never quite cooks my toppings, so if I am using raw ingredients that I want cooked, I'll pre-cook them a bit.

Thanks again for the recipe -- it's pizza time and I'll try your recipe!

E.

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On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:32:38 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham
<erksome@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Shadow,

Thanks very much for the detailed information! I am impressed with your method and now very much excited to try to make your pizza crust. I also very much like the idea of making a bunch of crusts, baking them, and freezing them. I wonder if my

freezer is big enough...

Well, there's nothing radical about it. I started with a
standard recipe almost 20 years ago and adapted it... and adapted
it....

I tried olive oil, whole wheat in various proportions(even
tried rye), more or less sugar/salt and so on....

You can say I "Darwined" the bread to my environment and
taste.
Your opinion as to taste might differ.

I am in eastern Washington State, USA, where our humidity and temperature are probably not as crazy as yours, although it does seem like I always need to adjust my recipes on the fly. Perhaps it's just the nature of sourdough.

My method for making pizza crust using my sourdough is roughly this:

1 and 3/4 cup active sourdough starter (near 100% hydration)
~1.5 cup flour (can sub 1/2 cup whole wheat, masa)
2 tsp salt, 4 Tbs olive oil, 2 tsp sugar

This makes enough for 2 large doughs. This dough is definitely drier than my bread dough, which is very sticky. Note that I don't use any added water, just the wet starter. After mixing, I immediately roll out the crusts and then put them on a baking

sheet with corn meal so they don't stick. I don't let them rise.

If I didn't let mine rise I thought they would become too
hard. Something I'd probably break a tooth on. No rise at all?
I'll try baking a no-rise. I'll make it 20 minutes before I do
the others, so I only have to pre-heat the oven once. It'll take a
while, I still have 5 whole pizza crusts in the freezer.

I then fire up the grill as hot as I can get it and grill one side of the crust, just sliding the dough onto the grate, popping large bubbles as they form, and turning it once or twice to get a good, even brown on the one side.

I then take the half-cooked crust off the grill and flip it onto my baking sheet again, cooked side up, take it inside and put toppings on the cooked side. I will then take the topped pizza back out and put it back on the grill, but on low heat, to

brown the uncooked side and get the toppings hot (melt the cheese). This never quite cooks my toppings, so if I am using raw ingredients that I want cooked, I'll pre-cook them a bit.

Thanks again for the recipe -- it's pizza time and I'll try your recipe!

Well, I hope it works out. I'd be interested to know if it
does in other climates. (Winter here ATM, 75F, a coldish day).
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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On Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 12:36:21 PM UTC-7, Shadow wrote:

If I didn't let mine rise I thought they would become too
hard. Something I'd probably break a tooth on. No rise at all?

Because I use so much starter (the only liquid in the recipe), it doesn't really need a rise, just the time it takes to roll it out and slap it on the grill. I suspect that if I used just a little starter and then water to make the dough, then I'd be
making hard, flat bricks, as you suggest...

Well, I hope it works out. I'd be interested to know if it
does in other climates. (Winter here ATM, 75F, a coldish day).

The end of summer here at "GMT-7", Pacific time, reaching about 80F. In the winter, though, perhaps as low as -10F or so. I envy your temperature, not necessarily the humidity (but I do miss tropical fruit so much).

I'll let you know how your recipe works out for me. Cheers to good bread!

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On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:38:19 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham
<erksome@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 12:36:21 PM UTC-7, Shadow wrote:

If I didn't let mine rise I thought they would become too
hard. Something I'd probably break a tooth on. No rise at all?

Because I use so much starter (the only liquid in the recipe), it doesn't really need a rise, just the time it takes to roll it out and slap it on the grill. I suspect that if I used just a little starter and then water to make the dough, then I'd be

making hard, flat bricks, as you suggest...

Well, I hope it works out. I'd be interested to know if it
does in other climates. (Winter here ATM, 75F, a coldish day).

The end of summer here at "GMT-7", Pacific time, reaching about 80F. In the winter, though, perhaps as low as -10F or so. I envy your temperature, not necessarily the humidity (but I do miss tropical fruit so much).

I'll let you know how your recipe works out for me. Cheers to good bread!

I tried your pizza recipe. Winter here (just over 100F ATM -
bit hot for the season).
Wasn't sure how much salt to use, so I guessed. Rise was OK,
but not as "sourdough" tasting as mine. I prefer it with a hint of
sour. But made 2 better than retail pizzas.
So when I'm in a hurry, I'll use your recipe. From starter
(woke it up the night before) to oven was 1 hour.
TY
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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I tried your pizza recipe. Winter here (just over 100F ATM -
bit hot for the season).
Wasn't sure how much salt to use, so I guessed. Rise was OK,
but not as "sourdough" tasting as mine. I prefer it with a hint of
sour. But made 2 better than retail pizzas.
So when I'm in a hurry, I'll use your recipe. From starter
(woke it up the night before) to oven was 1 hour.

Hello Shadow!

Fantastic that you got the chance to try the "quick" sourdough pizza dough recipe. I'm very glad that it worked well enough and that it may be an option when time is not on your side. Good to hear!

I have been fooling with other things lately (pounds and pounds of zucchini and pears are on my table right now) and so I have not had the chance to even inspect my poor refrigerated starter. Thanks for the reminder -- I'll wake it up and see if I can
do something fun.

Happy baking!

E.

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Oh, and I just saw this, that made me laugh -- my method is not the preferred method at all! (but when in a hurry, what're the options?)

https://bit.ly/2ktNDkb

Cheers!

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On 9/20/2019 9:25 AM, Eric Graham wrote:

Oh, and I just saw this, that made me laugh -- my method is not the preferred method at all! (but when in a hurry, what're the options?)

https://bit.ly/2ktNDkb

Cheers!

I usually make my pizza dough at least one day before I plan to make my
pizza. In addition to better flavor (in my opinion), it cuts the time
in half between making the dough and making the pizza and makes it
easier to do during the work week.

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On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham
<erksome@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, and I just saw this, that made me laugh -- my method is not the preferred >method at all! (but when in a hurry, what're the options?)

https://bit.ly/2ktNDkb

You should post the full URL ...... this is Usenet.

https://www.huffpostbrasil.com (sounds incredible - but true,
see Wikipedia) is partners with the far-right wing Abril group. All
the political articles about Brazil start with "The government said"
followed by the usual lies and never hear the "other side", which ATM
is > 60% of the population, that in a recent poll classify Bolsonaro's government as "bad" or "terrible". It's the worst evaluation in our
history.

Cheers!

As to the article, I agree, a longer rise would give more
flavor, but OTOH would defeat the fact you can make a pizza in a few
hours by your method.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 3:24:26 PM UTC-7, Shadow wrote:

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham

Oh, and I just saw this, that made me laugh -- my method is not the preferred
method at all! (but when in a hurry, what're the options?)

https://bit.ly/2ktNDkb

You should post the full URL ...... this is Usenet.

https://www.huffpostbrasil.com (sounds incredible - but true,
see Wikipedia) is partners with the far-right wing Abril group. All
the political articles about Brazil start with "The government said"
followed by the usual lies and never hear the "other side", which ATM
is > 60% of the population, that in a recent poll classify Bolsonaro's government as "bad" or "terrible". It's the worst evaluation in our
history.

Cheers!

As to the article, I agree, a longer rise would give more
flavor, but OTOH would defeat the fact you can make a pizza in a few
hours by your method.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Sorry about not pasting the entire URL. Here it is for those who couldn't get there:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pizza-dough-rise-time_l_5d7299f9e4b07521022bca8f

About huffpostbrasil.com - what?? That is crazy because in the US, the Huffington Post is wonderfully left wing. I'd cynically say that it's always about money (advertising dollars) and power (ideology always takes a back seat).

It seems that the world is has moved in the wrong direction lately and I very much hope we can all learn from our current mistakes and make amends (I'm trying very hard not to get political on a sourdough site, so that's it from me!).

Good luck, don't despair, keep baking?

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Eric . . .

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Eric Graham
<erksome@gmail.com> wrote:

I also have an old Kitchenaid stand mixer (bulky, but no where to hide it), but have not been able to get it to knead my sourdough dough -- I think my dough is just too hydrated and the mixer with the dough hook doesn't seem to work well at all (even

with a doubled recipe).

When I use my Kitchen Aid stand mixer it works well for kneading. But
I use a different process than most here do. I use a liquid starter
and it's added, with warm water, to the dry ingredients much like a
traditional bread recipe. I don't use a dough based starter.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------


Join the Icom group, a general Icom (amateur radio) discussion
group on Groups.io:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM (recently launched, growing slowly)
**also, a new self-help group dedicated to your cat's health: https://groups.io/g/CatVet (just launched)

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I use mine only to mix and kneed the dough. It has a "dough" setting.
Bread machine manuals are readily available on the internet


BKE

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