Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

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On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington <bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington ><bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

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On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain equivalents.

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On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain >equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

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On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American
sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

My first post and such quick replies!
Just a bit about me...have been interested in fermented foods for quite sometime, reading and experimenting on my own. Main conclusion is that capitalism has really screwed us over and the vast majority of us on this planet have lost the knowledge for
preparing food properly. Last month I returned to eating bread/gluten after about a two year hiatus. After re-eating it I can say my body has had mixed results. I do feel a sense of unwanted heaviness and my teeth sometimes bother me now, however, I feel
I'm satiating whatever bacteria/bugs rely on nutrients/fibers I was missing. If you don't give the bugs what they want they will eat at your intestinal lining.
I'm not the most experienced baker, and I find myself most interested in how to make bread the MOST nutritious as it could possibly be. I usually just mix water, starter, flour, then let it autolyse for a bit (an hour or so), then add salt/add ins and
then do some folds. I don't do much kneading now as I've found the folding process is decent. After reading some articles Im now even questioning the kneading process most people use. I'd like to read more on the most effective way to develop the gluten.
Most surprising is that my 2 month old starter is transforming my dough in such a way that I think is causing really good gluten development and that includes the creation of a TON of small bubbles. I made naan the other day and it appeared to have a ton
of large warts! I'm not really retarding at low temperatures. I leave it out at room temperature and it dips to about 65 F over night. Read mixed reviews online about blisters but based on how I seem to be digesting the bread, I think it might be a good
thing. Unfortunately people can be hung up on aesthetic aspects of food, again due to capitalism and pleasing customers. Warty bread may look strange but I'm thinking it might be a good sign of fermentation. I have also heard my dough "singing" or making
tons of the crackling noises upon removal from the oven, which I understand is also a good sign of properly made bread.
Essene bread will be my next exploration, but the thought of eating bread that has simply been dehydrated at low temperature seems a bit scary. I'm just more on the search of what bread SHOULD be. I can say that my body doesnt seem to digest bread made
with lots of fat, ie the panettone, as I think the fat disrupts proper development of gluten..might be a better choice to add fat to bread after that process has been achieved, or use a method like what's involved in making croissants. Anyhow, I really
could go on and on and on and on and on about this lol. But I'll stop here lor now. I've read through quite a few posts and would like to thank you all for your insight and information on the threads. I REALLY appreciate it.
Ideally I like using spelt bread but I have been using a mix of whole wheat and spelt lately. I also like sprouted spelt. Organic Whole wheat is what I've been using my starter.

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On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American
sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

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On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, John Washington wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >> sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Also forgot to mention..really important....i also have noticed that while mixing my dough i'll see sporadic bubbles burst throughout the dough. It prevents me from kneading/folding because it will cause breaks in the dough. Is this the breaking down of
the gluten structures?

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On 2021-02-18 12:04 p.m., John Washington wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 9:32:15 AM UTC-8, John Washington wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >>>>> sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain >>>>> equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Also forgot to mention..really important....i also have noticed that while mixing my dough i'll see sporadic bubbles burst throughout the dough. It prevents me from kneading/folding because it will cause breaks in the dough. Is this the breaking down

of the gluten structures?

I very much doubt it. You only get breakdown after a very extended
machine kneading.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Washington <bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American
sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time. >...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Or oil. I like my Italian style bread "natural". Flour, water
and salt.
I might add oil for pan-bread as it tends to keep it moist
longer,
FWIW
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

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* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 12:01:33 PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Washington <brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >> >> sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Or oil. I like my Italian style bread "natural". Flour, water
and salt.
I might add oil for pan-bread as it tends to keep it moist
longer,
FWIW
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 12:01:33 PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Washington <brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >> >> sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain
equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Or oil. I like my Italian style bread "natural". Flour, water
and salt.
I might add oil for pan-bread as it tends to keep it moist
longer,
FWIW
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

do blisters occur more with sourdough sine there is more lactic acid? I reckon they may not occur in breads that use rapid rise yeast.
Anyone think it's possible to have a sourdough starter that is almost entirely or entirely comprised of lactic acid bacteria?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:03:22 -0800 (PST), John Washington <bravebird83@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 12:01:33 PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American >> >> >> sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain >> >> >> equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I
get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Or oil. I like my Italian style bread "natural". Flour, water
and salt.
I might add oil for pan-bread as it tends to keep it moist
longer,

...

do blisters occur more with sourdough sine there is more lactic acid? I reckon they may not occur in breads that use rapid rise yeast.
Anyone think it's possible to have a sourdough starter that is almost entirely or entirely comprised of lactic acid bacteria?

The sourdough bacteria can produce acetic, lactic and maybe
malic acid. I have no idea why it tends to produce more of one acid
than another. Probably something to do with room temp.
My hooch varies between a vinegary(acetic acid) a
fruity(lactic and malic?) and a "neutral" (lactic?)smell. My starter
has been going since +- 2002, and I keep it at 100% hydration. So it's
the "same" starter.
Blistering is probably caused by other factors(hydration, oven
temp, dough handling, other ingredients).
I don't think any of the acids cause "blistering".
[]'s

PS "Huge bubbles on the surface" suggest that you use a very
wet dough and do not fold it before the final rise. Bubbles tend to
make for the surface. Do you turn your bread before baking?
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 11:04:03 AM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 08:03:22 -0800 (PST), John Washington <brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 12:01:33 PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:32:14 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 7:54:40 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-18 6:04 a.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 21:47:07 -0700, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> >

On 2021-02-17 1:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 16:49:07 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:56:24 -0800 (PST), John Washington
<brave...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are blisters on the surface a good sign?
Toying with different conditions on maintaining starters and now my doughs result in huge bubbles and blisters throughout the surface.

A hint of what those "different conditions" are and a
description of how you make your bread might help.
[]'s

I have always found that a cold ferment encourages blisters.

ISTR that although blisters are accepted, even welcomed on N.American
sourdoughs, French bakers see them as a fault on their pan-au-levain >> >> >> equivalents.

Bah! What do those Frenchies know?

I am laughing, of course, but I do take it as a great success when I >> >> > get a well blistered surface.

I'd like to get a shiny surface like professionals seem to get all the time.

...from just a natural bake? don't most of them coat their doughs with egg/milk mixtures to get a shiny surface?

Or oil. I like my Italian style bread "natural". Flour, water
and salt.
I might add oil for pan-bread as it tends to keep it moist
longer,

...

do blisters occur more with sourdough sine there is more lactic acid? I reckon they may not occur in breads that use rapid rise yeast.
Anyone think it's possible to have a sourdough starter that is almost entirely or entirely comprised of lactic acid bacteria?

The sourdough bacteria can produce acetic, lactic and maybe
malic acid. I have no idea why it tends to produce more of one acid
than another. Probably something to do with room temp.
My hooch varies between a vinegary(acetic acid) a
fruity(lactic and malic?) and a "neutral" (lactic?)smell. My starter
has been going since +- 2002, and I keep it at 100% hydration. So it's
the "same" starter.
Blistering is probably caused by other factors(hydration, oven
temp, dough handling, other ingredients).
I don't think any of the acids cause "blistering".
[]'s

PS "Huge bubbles on the surface" suggest that you use a very
wet dough and do not fold it before the final rise. Bubbles tend to
make for the surface. Do you turn your bread before baking?
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

it doesnt matter what i do to my dough, it will make blisters/bubbles. i wish i could determine the microbial status of my starter :(

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