• Carl's Starter & Charles Perry was always an avid baker

    From Boron Elgar@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 9 08:56:28 2020
    My father-in-law is moving from his home to gentler quarters, so the
    family have been cleaning out the old place as it has been sold.

    My FIL was always an avid bread baker well into his late 80s, but I
    could never convince him to play with sourdough. Oh, I tried, thinking
    his chemical engineer background would make it fascinating. Nope.

    I had some of Carl's starter sent to him. Frankly, I had no memory of
    it whatsoever, but lo and behold, when we opened one of the boxes,
    there was an envelope with my handwriting addressed to my FIL.

    Curious, I turned it over and the back of the envelope, which has been
    written on to say "Send brochure" gave me my clue before even opening
    the back flap of the envelope.

    Inside the envelope was a small baggie with the dried starter, stating
    it was packed in February of 2002 by Charles Perry. The brochure was
    in there too.

    Why my FIL never used it is beyond me, but I started to revive it
    yesterday.

    It is alive folks.

    There is activity, which the control batch I mixed with plain flour
    and water is not showing.

    Long way from activity to an established and workable starter, but I
    had not tried anything like this in a while. I have revived very old
    starters in the past, from Sourdough Jack packets in those books I had acquired. There was doubt from a few around here back then, and no, I
    did not sterilize the flour as Samartha thought would be the only
    proof, nor followed anyone else's advice or listened to hectoring
    (Dick probably). I stood firm then and still do.

    Been to this rodeo before, certainly created a few dozen burbling
    batches of SD from scratch using varying flours, and have also revived
    many SDs of my own, long in storage or purchsed/traded for curiosity.

    What this really is, though, is a delightful walk down memory lane,
    remininding me of many wonderful hours spent on this group.

    I thank the bread faeries, too.

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  • From Graham@21:1/5 to Boron Elgar on Mon Nov 9 15:06:27 2020
    On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:56:28 -0500, Boron Elgar wrote:

    My father-in-law is moving from his home to gentler quarters, so the
    family have been cleaning out the old place as it has been sold.

    My FIL was always an avid bread baker well into his late 80s, but I
    could never convince him to play with sourdough. Oh, I tried, thinking
    his chemical engineer background would make it fascinating. Nope.

    I had some of Carl's starter sent to him. Frankly, I had no memory of
    it whatsoever, but lo and behold, when we opened one of the boxes,
    there was an envelope with my handwriting addressed to my FIL.

    Curious, I turned it over and the back of the envelope, which has been written on to say "Send brochure" gave me my clue before even opening
    the back flap of the envelope.

    Inside the envelope was a small baggie with the dried starter, stating
    it was packed in February of 2002 by Charles Perry. The brochure was
    in there too.

    Why my FIL never used it is beyond me, but I started to revive it
    yesterday.

    It is alive folks.

    There is activity, which the control batch I mixed with plain flour
    and water is not showing.

    Long way from activity to an established and workable starter, but I
    had not tried anything like this in a while. I have revived very old
    starters in the past, from Sourdough Jack packets in those books I had acquired. There was doubt from a few around here back then, and no, I
    did not sterilize the flour as Samartha thought would be the only
    proof, nor followed anyone else's advice or listened to hectoring
    (Dick probably). I stood firm then and still do.

    Been to this rodeo before, certainly created a few dozen burbling
    batches of SD from scratch using varying flours, and have also revived
    many SDs of my own, long in storage or purchsed/traded for curiosity.

    What this really is, though, is a delightful walk down memory lane, remininding me of many wonderful hours spent on this group.

    I thank the bread faeries, too.

    Yes, those were the days.
    I tried examining my starter under the microscope (a Leitz Orthoplan) but
    all I saw was a cloud of flour particles. I also dissolved some instant
    yeast and made a slide, but the spores were just featureless spheroids and
    not at all as interesting as the fossilized ones I've seen in geological samples.
    You've prompted me to revive my starter:-)

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  • From Boron Elgar@21:1/5 to Graham on Tue Nov 10 13:02:25 2020
    On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:06:27 -0700, Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:

    On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:56:28 -0500, Boron Elgar wrote:

    My father-in-law is moving from his home to gentler quarters, so the
    family have been cleaning out the old place as it has been sold.

    My FIL was always an avid bread baker well into his late 80s, but I
    could never convince him to play with sourdough. Oh, I tried, thinking
    his chemical engineer background would make it fascinating. Nope.


    It is alive folks.


    You've prompted me to revive my starter:-)


    Those starters are like old friends.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From heyjoe@21:1/5 to Boron Elgar on Wed Nov 11 14:45:02 2020
    On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:56:28 -0500
    in Message-ID: <news:utgiqf1ki04mse4fe8u4nsv99kdnnv6tgd@4ax.com>
    Boron Elgar wrote :

    it was packed in February of 2002 by Charles Perry. The brochure was
    in there too.

    Why my FIL never used it is beyond me, but I started to revive it
    yesterday.

    Question about reviving dried starter.

    From Friends of Carl -
    To REACTIVATE the starter from the powdered form:

    1. Dissolve the contents of the packet with 3/4 cup warm (90 degree) water, add 3/4 cup white bread flour, and 1 teaspoon sugar in glass or plastic container (NOT METAL!).

    2. Place bowl (covered with damp towel) in warm place (the oven with the light on is about 85 degrees-Test it first!) for up to 48 hours. It will get bubbly from the fermentation. ITS ALIVE!!

    3. Mix in 1 cup warm (95) water, add 1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon dried potatoes or use potato water and let sit in the warm place till bubbly again. Dont worry about the lumps as the fermentation will take care of them.

    4. Now, you can store it in the frig till needed. It may develop a clear liquid on top, if so, stir it back in as this is alcohol - keep it happy! It will need feeding about every couple of weeks, just add 1 cup warm skim milk or water, 1 T Sugar and 1
    cup flour. Once in a while add 1 tablespoon of dried potatoes (or use potato water). If it looks sick, add 1 T CIDER vinegar to give it a kick in the behind! Give the excess to a friend or you can keep some of it in the freezer for several months between
    feedings.

    In step 3 - don't keep dried potatoes on hand and potato salad season is
    past. Would like to skip this if it's not really needed.

    Is using potato water or dried potatoes desirable or necessary?

    --
    Don't know if the facebook has ever caused the lame to walk,
    but it sure has caused the dumb to speak.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham@21:1/5 to heyjoe on Wed Nov 11 08:32:18 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:45:02 -0000 (UTC), heyjoe wrote:

    On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:56:28 -0500
    in Message-ID: <news:utgiqf1ki04mse4fe8u4nsv99kdnnv6tgd@4ax.com>
    Boron Elgar wrote :

    it was packed in February of 2002 by Charles Perry. The brochure was
    in there too.

    Why my FIL never used it is beyond me, but I started to revive it
    yesterday.

    Question about reviving dried starter.

    From Friends of Carl -
    To REACTIVATE the starter from the powdered form:

    1. Dissolve the contents of the packet with 3/4 cup warm (90 degree) water, add 3/4 cup white bread flour, and 1 teaspoon sugar in glass or plastic container (NOT METAL!).

    2. Place bowl (covered with damp towel) in warm place (the oven with the light on is about 85 degrees-Test it first!) for up to 48 hours. It will get bubbly from the fermentation. ITS ALIVE!!

    3. Mix in 1 cup warm (95) water, add 1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon dried potatoes or use potato water and let sit in the warm place till bubbly again. Dont worry about the lumps as the fermentation will take care of them.

    4. Now, you can store it in the frig till needed. It may develop a clear liquid on top, if so, stir it back in as this is alcohol - keep it happy! It will need feeding about every couple of weeks, just add 1 cup warm skim milk or water, 1 T Sugar and 1
    cup flour. Once in a while add 1 tablespoon of dried potatoes (or use potato water). If it looks sick, add 1 T CIDER vinegar to give it a kick in the behind! Give the excess to a friend or you can keep some of it in the freezer for several months between
    feedings.

    In step 3 - don't keep dried potatoes on hand and potato salad season is past. Would like to skip this if it's not really needed.

    Is using potato water or dried potatoes desirable or necessary?

    I don't know about the potatoes but two things in their #4 instructions
    don't make sense.
    Alcohol kills bacteria and, presumably, fungi. So I would pour it off.
    Cider vinegar is a similar bug killer, that's why it's used in pickling.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From heyjoe@21:1/5 to Graham on Wed Nov 11 15:51:00 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:32:18 -0700
    in Message-ID: <news:18ot5ho7zlqsl$.104hf6o9bjkv9.dlg@40tude.net>
    Graham wrote :

    I don't know about the potatoes but two things in their #4 instructions
    don't make sense.
    Alcohol kills bacteria and, presumably, fungi. So I would pour it off.
    Cider vinegar is a similar bug killer, that's why it's used in pickling.

    Stopped reading at #3, as I'm not even close to that point. Don't see
    the point of potatoes - I think it's just a different source of starch.
    But maybe I'm missing something, so am asking for advice/expertise re:
    potatoes (and any other clues).

    Agree with you. In the past, I poured off the top liquid/alcohol before
    adding just flour and water to refresh the starter.

    Lost my starter years ago from lack of use/refreshment. It was a from
    scratch starter using rye flour. Am going to jump start this time by
    using Carl's starter.

    --
    Don't know if the facebook has ever caused the lame to walk,
    but it sure has caused the dumb to speak.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Boron Elgar@21:1/5 to sample@example.invalid on Wed Nov 11 17:46:37 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 14:45:02 -0000 (UTC), heyjoe
    <sample@example.invalid> wrote:

    On Mon, 09 Nov 2020 08:56:28 -0500
    in Message-ID: <news:utgiqf1ki04mse4fe8u4nsv99kdnnv6tgd@4ax.com>
    Boron Elgar wrote :

    it was packed in February of 2002 by Charles Perry. The brochure was
    in there too.

    Why my FIL never used it is beyond me, but I started to revive it
    yesterday.

    Question about reviving dried starter.

    From Friends of Carl -
    To REACTIVATE the starter from the powdered form:

    1. Dissolve the contents of the packet with 3/4 cup warm (90 degree) water, add 3/4 cup white bread flour, and 1 teaspoon sugar in glass or plastic container (NOT METAL!).

    2. Place bowl (covered with damp towel) in warm place (the oven with the light on is about 85 degrees-Test it first!) for up to 48 hours. It will get bubbly from the fermentation. ITS ALIVE!!

    3. Mix in 1 cup warm (95) water, add 1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon dried potatoes or use potato water and let sit in the warm place till bubbly again. Dont worry about the lumps as the fermentation will take care of them.

    4. Now, you can store it in the frig till needed. It may develop a clear liquid on top, if so, stir it back in as this is alcohol - keep it happy! It will need feeding about every couple of weeks, just add 1 cup warm skim milk or water, 1 T Sugar and 1
    cup flour. Once in a while add 1 tablespoon of dried potatoes (or use potato water). If it looks sick, add 1 T CIDER vinegar to give it a kick in the behind! Give the excess to a friend or you can keep some of it in the freezer for several months between
    feedings.

    In step 3 - don't keep dried potatoes on hand and potato salad season is >past. Would like to skip this if it's not really needed.

    Is using potato water or dried potatoes desirable or necessary?


    I have never used sugar or potato products to revive any Carl starter.

    AP flour and water only until it is alive, alive-o.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Boron Elgar@21:1/5 to sample@example.invalid on Wed Nov 11 17:48:31 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 15:51:00 -0000 (UTC), heyjoe
    <sample@example.invalid> wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:32:18 -0700
    in Message-ID: <news:18ot5ho7zlqsl$.104hf6o9bjkv9.dlg@40tude.net>
    Graham wrote :

    I don't know about the potatoes but two things in their #4 instructions
    don't make sense.
    Alcohol kills bacteria and, presumably, fungi. So I would pour it off.
    Cider vinegar is a similar bug killer, that's why it's used in pickling.

    Stopped reading at #3, as I'm not even close to that point. Don't see
    the point of potatoes - I think it's just a different source of starch.
    But maybe I'm missing something, so am asking for advice/expertise re: >potatoes (and any other clues).

    Agree with you. In the past, I poured off the top liquid/alcohol before >adding just flour and water to refresh the starter.

    Lost my starter years ago from lack of use/refreshment. It was a from >scratch starter using rye flour. Am going to jump start this time by
    using Carl's starter.


    It is a very dependable starter with the usual care. Only drawback I
    ever had with it, is that it is pretty mild. To counter that, I have
    adjust final refreshments with other flours.before a bread session

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to Graham on Sun Nov 15 14:16:36 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:32:18 -0700, Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:

    Alcohol kills bacteria and, presumably, fungi.

    Actually, most of the alcohol is oxidized quickly to acetic
    acid. Think an open bottle of wine.

    Acid won't kill the Lactobacillus or the Candida. It's why
    they take over the colony. They thrive in an acidic environment.
    The starter collapses from lack of food (flour), not because of the
    presence of acid.

    So I would pour it off.

    I never do. If it's very old, I might pour maybe half off.

    Cider vinegar is a similar bug killer, that's why it's used in pickling.

    There is no need to add acid, the starter's "hooch" should be
    acidic enough to protect the colony.
    If the hooch "fails", you will get mould and/or a foul
    smelling paste. And the starter is lost.
    I've lost starters because people poured off the hooch in the
    belief it had gone "sour".
    But my primary starter, made in 2002 from scratch, is still
    going strong. It's probably not the SAME as the original though:

    https://modernistcuisine.com/mc/sourdough-science/

    (quite a good article)

    A lot can change in almost 20 years.
    HTH
    []'s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012

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