• WARNING: Yet More Metal Working Content - Tool Blackening

    From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 11 13:12:54 2021
    Cold bluing or cold blackening seems to be an accepted method of
    protecting steel parts in the shop. Add on a sealant or keep the part
    oiled and supposedly it will resist rust and corrosion indefinitely.

    I have done cold bluing in the ancient past using the gunsmith supplies.
    When I was a kid I stripped and refinished and old Sears .22 rifle,
    and I built 4 different black powder kit guns that came in the white.

    The quantity in gunsmith supplies is rather stingy. The amount in a
    bottle is enough to do a fair to good job on one complete firearm and
    maybe do some touch up work if you know how to make it blend. Two guns
    if you don't make any mistakes.

    More recently I've started making tools in my own shop. Many were
    intended to be a single use or short run tool. Long reach clamp to hold
    a slide bar in a mold until it could be match machined and clamped in
    other ways. Long reach tool holder for deep milling. Half round tool
    for work stop in the spindle and work positioning. Lots of stuff
    really. Mostly I have left them in the white (fine for carbide tools
    and some I've made in stainless) because they were made to do a single
    job. I didn't throw them away, but I didn't plan for them to be likely
    to see future use. It turns out nearly all of them have been much more
    useful than I originally planned. I need to blacken and oil them I think.

    Not wanting to go with a stingy little bottle from a gunsmith supply I
    looked at McMaster and MSC. They both stock some form of steel tool
    black. It seems expensive, but its a larger quantity than your local
    retail bottle of gun blue. How long does it really last? Is the
    "sealant" in some of those kits better than just oiling the part? Is it
    just oil? I don't mind spending the money. I just want to know its
    worth it.

    --
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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu Nov 11 21:53:05 2021
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
    Cold bluing or cold blackening seems to be an accepted method of
    protecting steel parts in the shop. Add on a sealant or keep the part
    oiled and supposedly it will resist rust and corrosion indefinitely.

    I have done cold bluing in the ancient past using the gunsmith supplies.
    When I was a kid I stripped and refinished and old Sears .22 rifle,
    and I built 4 different black powder kit guns that came in the white.

    The quantity in gunsmith supplies is rather stingy. The amount in a
    bottle is enough to do a fair to good job on one complete firearm and
    maybe do some touch up work if you know how to make it blend. Two guns
    if you don't make any mistakes.

    More recently I've started making tools in my own shop. Many were
    intended to be a single use or short run tool. Long reach clamp to hold
    a slide bar in a mold until it could be match machined and clamped in
    other ways. Long reach tool holder for deep milling. Half round tool
    for work stop in the spindle and work positioning. Lots of stuff
    really. Mostly I have left them in the white (fine for carbide tools
    and some I've made in stainless) because they were made to do a single
    job. I didn't throw them away, but I didn't plan for them to be likely
    to see future use. It turns out nearly all of them have been much more useful than I originally planned. I need to blacken and oil them I think.

    Not wanting to go with a stingy little bottle from a gunsmith supply I
    looked at McMaster and MSC. They both stock some form of steel tool
    black. It seems expensive, but its a larger quantity than your local
    retail bottle of gun blue. How long does it really last? Is the
    "sealant" in some of those kits better than just oiling the part? Is it
    just oil? I don't mind spending the money. I just want to know its
    worth it.

    I wonder the same. There appear to be something like 3 classes of bluing.

    1) the room temperature selnium stuff, like Hoppe's gun blue. Works fine
    to make parts dark. Durability is questionable. The stuff is heavy
    metal toxic so beware and wear gloves. You can't wash it out of your
    body once absorbed. It's more of a coating of a dark selniumcompound
    than real oxide layer.

    2) high temperature oxide kits, seems to require some weird solutions and
    you the seal it all with some snake-oil like sealant. Kits come with
    and require special cleaning steps. Expensive

    3) low temperature kits that don't need the 300F solutions or whatever
    they are. Same special cleaners and magic sealant involved. Expensive

    THe last bottle of Hoppes I bought was $3.79, I really don't care if I
    have to reapply it to stuff. Coat with your favorite rust preventer oil
    and you're golden.

    EPI (epi.com) makes sample kits of #2 and #3. Haven't tried them yet
    though.

    None of it will be as durable as real steam oxide coating you'd get on
    even cheap chinese tools, but it's all better than metal that gets rusty fingerprints when you handle it.

    to prevent rust, my favorites are LPS-2 and even better, gun-coat from Fluoramics. It has some additives with an affinity for iron, so the
    protection is superior to a smear of some random lubricating oils. Any
    TRUE corrosion inhibitor should have those extra ingredients.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 11 17:24:25 2021
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:smjtg6$nsd$1@dont-email.me...

    Cold bluing or cold blackening seems to be an accepted method of
    protecting steel parts in the shop. Add on a sealant or keep the part
    oiled and supposedly it will resist rust and corrosion indefinitely.

    --------------------

    I was surprised by how long a knurled sawmill adjusting knob I made from
    12L14 and blackened by boiling in sodium thiosulfate (photographer's hypo) lasted without rusting.

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Nov 12 08:42:22 2021
    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:12:54 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Not wanting to go with a stingy little bottle from a gunsmith supply I
    looked at McMaster and MSC. They both stock some form of steel tool
    black. It seems expensive, but its a larger quantity than your local
    retail bottle of gun blue. How long does it really last? Is the
    "sealant" in some of those kits better than just oiling the part? Is it
    just oil? I don't mind spending the money. I just want to know its
    worth it.

    A bit of a mess... but a bunch of really old posts I saved on this
    subject you can peruse...

    I couldn't remember the name till I looked through this, but

    https://caswellplating.com

    might be worth looking at for ideas and supplies.

    ========
    Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
    Subject: Re: cold blueing chemicals...
    From: Ecnerwal <LawrenceSMITH@SOuthernVERmont.NyET>
    Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:52:17 GMT
    --------
    In article <wMGdnZobiad3uqjbnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
    "Al A." <alanganes@comcast.net> wrote:

    Any ideas or alternatives?

    Go hot and Parkerize (phospate) it? My understanding is that it's far
    more effective against rust, and given "small parts" cooking should not
    be a big deal - perhaps an old coffee can and a hot plate with a pot of
    water to set the coffee can in?

    --
    Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

    ========
    Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
    Subject: Re: cold blueing chemicals...
    From: "Randal O'Brian" <ROBRIAN1@austin.rr.com>
    Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:56:39 -0500
    --------

    "Diamond Jim" <jbanks2@ec.rr.com> wrote in message news:463550ec$0$8986$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

    <stans4@prolynx.com> wrote in message news:1177891193.017361.100830@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    On Apr 29, 5:17 pm, "Al A." <alanga...@comcast.net> wrote:
    Hi All,
    I am looking to blue some small parts (a flash hider, "claw" type
    scope mount, and misc small tools & doo-dads, etc.) and was wondering
    what the collective RCM wisdom on cold blueing chemicals is. It is not
    necessary that these have a deep polished show-grade finish, these
    aren't show-pieces. Mostly looking to have stuff look "finished" and not >>> have rust develop on everything. This is on steel and for occasional
    (few times/year) use. I would like a black finish or something close to >>> it.

    A perusal of the Brownells catalog and website reveals a number of
    different brands and formulations. Any favorites?

    Quite a few years ago, I used some of the Birchwood-Casey
    bought-it-at-K-Mart stuff, mostly with pretty incosistent and sort of
    blah results. Is that about what I can expect from any cold blue?

    Any ideas or alternatives?

    Thanks for any ideas,
    AL A.

    Oxpho Blue has been good stuff, it's almost as tough as a hot-salts
    job. Downside is that it's miserable to apply evenly over large
    surfaces with no practice. If your parts are small enough to dunk, do
    that. Works better if the parts are warmed. Parts have to be CLEAN,
    no fingerprints. Bronze wool works well to get the smut off
    afterwards.

    Alternatives, Dicropan IM or the old Herter's Belgian Blue. Both are
    kind of pricey to order with HazMat charges. Dicropan gives you a
    black finish, the Herter's gives you a real blue. Both take nothing
    more than a tank of boiling water and CLEAN parts. You need some way
    to card off the deposit, steel wool, bronze wool, rotary brush,
    whatever. You can do a whole rifle action in an afternoon. Both are
    a lot more resistant to wear than cold blues.

    Did I mention you have to have CLEAN parts? Brake cleaner, boiling
    TSP, acetone, MEK, TCE, freon head cleaner, carbon tet and dry
    cleaning fluid have all been used. Alcohol doesn't cut it for
    degreasing, isopropyl or rubbing. If you get spots that won't take,
    grease is the culprit. With Oxpho Blue, you can "rub it in" with the
    wool to shift the grease, but chances are the surface will be mottled.

    Stan


    Go with the Oxpho blue, it is about the best cold blue around.

    Oxpho Blue works exceptionally well if you pickle the degreased part in
    HCL before bluing. I use hardware store muriatic acid cut 50-50 with
    water. Dip the clean parts in the acid for about 30 sec, rinse off with
    clean water and then apply the blue, dipping if possible.

    Randy
    ========
    Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
    Subject: Re: cold blueing chemicals...
    From: "Shaun Van Poecke" <shaunvanpoecke@bigpond.com>
    Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:23:45 GMT
    --------

    "Al A." <alanganes@comcast.net> wrote in message news:wMGdnZobiad3uqjbnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
    Hi All,
    Any ideas or alternatives?

    Thanks for any ideas,
    AL A.

    As an alternative you may like to consider "gun kote". Its gained
    quite a bit of popularity in many areas, used by navy seals on all
    their guns if i recall correctly. Lots of gun guys use it for all
    sorts of things. Comes in about a dozen colors from memory, mostly
    differnt shades of black, and different shades of silver.

    I bought a small tin of both the gloss black and some sort of stainless
    steel color about 4 years ago to paint the cylinder heads on a bike.
    According to their data (believe it if you will) its one of the only
    finishes that wont reduce heat transfer. Paint and anodizing both
    reduce heat transfer. They claim gun kote actually increases it by a
    very small amount. They have extensive data on resistance to heat,
    chemicals and salt water.

    Application is supposed to involve pre-heating the part (I put it in
    the oven, or for the larger stuff sat it on top of an inverted
    household electric heater) then spray on to apply. I didnt have a
    spary gun, so i used a brush... while the results probably werent good
    enough for the fine tolerances on a gun, the finish was excellent and
    durable. I washed my bike with a high pressure hose every week for
    about 2 years afterwards until i sold it, never had to re-apply.

    I think it was about middle expensive from memory, but not ludicous.

    as usual, no affiliation with company etc blah blah blah

    Shaun
    ========
    Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
    Subject: Re: cold blueing chemicals...
    From: Rex <burkheimer@gmail.com>
    Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:12:26 GMT
    --------
    Al A. wrote:
    Hi All,
    I am looking to blue some small parts (a flash hider, "claw" type scope mount, and misc small tools & doo-dads, etc.) and was wondering what the collective RCM wisdom on cold blueing chemicals is. It is not necessary
    that these have a deep polished show-grade finish, these aren't
    show-pieces. Mostly looking to have stuff look "finished" and not have
    rust develop on everything. This is on steel and for occasional (few times/year) use. I would like a black finish or something close to it.

    A perusal of the Brownells catalog and website reveals a number of
    different brands and formulations. Any favorites?

    Quite a few years ago, I used some of the Birchwood-Casey
    bought-it-at-K-Mart stuff, mostly with pretty incosistent and sort of
    blah results. Is that about what I can expect from any cold blue?

    Any ideas or alternatives?

    I used some BC cold blue on a beater S&W a few months ago.
    It already looks beat up, with minimal handling and no shooting or
    cleaning since.

    I did some research on cold blues. While many recommended Oxpho Blue
    from Brownells. several people who seemed to know what they ere doing
    (i.e. gunsmiths) recommended the Wheeler product over Oxpho.
    So I ordered a bottle, and will try it on a 1911 frame shortly.

    Also bought a serving of Gunkote, and will sample that on a similar
    project.
    =====
    =====
    Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
    Subject: Re: Blueing products
    From: Don Foreman <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net>
    Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:11:45 -0600
    --------
    On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:47:17 -0700, "JensenC" <farview at frontier dot
    wrote:

    I'm about to make some welded square tube picture frames and have been >looking into various blueing products. 44/40 runs about $8.50 for 2 oz. >Oxpho-blue runs about $9.50 for 4 oz. Van's Instant is about $10 for 4 oz. >Hoppes runs about 9$ for 4 oz.

    I'm wondering what folks here have found to work best on mild steel. Any >hints or tricks?

    http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm

    Black oxide concentrate to make up 1.25 gallon of solution $22.00.
    or $33.00 for a quart of concentrate that makes up 2.5 gallons of
    working soup.

    Unlike Oxpho blue and others which must be wiped on, you can immerse
    parts in the Caswell stuff. It does not need to be heated. It
    makes a nice dense black. It isn't as durable as hot salts
    processes, but it's very easy to use and it looks nice. I've
    blackened a number of small parts in a quart of it I mixed up probably
    5 years ago. It still works fine.

    The penetrating sealer works well, but I think it's just linseed oil
    and solvent.
    ===
    From: Sonoma1720@hotmail.com (Roy)

    Yep Caswells black oxide works fine. I look at the penetrating sealnat
    they supply more as a linseed/cosmoline mix.....but either way its
    pretty good.

    After setting for awhile the mix may appear to cloud up or have
    accumulated snow in it, but just shake it up well, run it through a
    few coffee strainer filters, and use it. It will still work just fine.
    I fyou do not remove the snow accumulations any of the sediment that
    may happen to get on the part will give it a spotted effect...and
    coffee filters work fine to remove them.
    ==========

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 12 09:41:09 2021
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:smlnfe$vst$1@dont-email.me...

    Go hot and Parkerize (phospate) it? My understanding is that it's far
    more effective against rust, and given "small parts" cooking should not
    be a big deal - perhaps an old coffee can and a hot plate with a pot of
    water to set the coffee can in?

    ----------------

    Parkerizing undoubtedly gives a more durable finish but the thiosulfate-blackened blade guide adjuster I made in the 90's still shows no rust, unlike the 12L14 rod it was made from. I probably wiped it with LPS-3. https://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/rust-protecting-12l14-491661-.htm

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