On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its controlled by
an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to control the >spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. I have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen
button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then
begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The
shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door. Still I
think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an
especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest Chinese
relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a
couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to
mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil trigger >input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary contacts >because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop. Neither >affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is >momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it, and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion >interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and
orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail mill,
that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really
doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its controlled by
an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to control the
spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. I have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen
button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then
begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The
shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door. Still I
think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an
especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest Chinese
relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a
couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to
mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil trigger
input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary contacts
because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop. Neither
affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is
momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it, and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion
interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and
orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail mill,
that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really
doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
On 9/19/2021 2:21 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of going >>> into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its controlled by
an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to control the >>> spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. I have >>> a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen
button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then
begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The
shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door. Still I >>> think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an
especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest Chinese
relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a
couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to
mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil trigger >>> input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary contacts
because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop. Neither >>> affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is
momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it, and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion
interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and
orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail mill,
that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really
doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer machines I >>> made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
Bob,
Just for some giggles!! Can you get access to the actual contacts.
If Yes, the try a simple piece of folded sandpaper or abrasive strip.
The attempt would be to just clean the contacts of some carbon.
If the relay is enclosed in a plastic cover maybe the cover can be
popped off and the do the same as above.
I just had an intermittent issue with a door open relay. After
replacing the relay and all worked as it should I took the cover off
the relay and inspected the contacts with a microscope. To the naked
eye there was no issue visable, however with the microscope I could
see some etching of the contact surface. At that point it was not
worth my time to clean it up and take it back to try to see if the
customer gets re-irritated. :-)
Anyhow, for what you are doing it might be a quick fix and maybe a way
to get convinced it really is the relay that is irritating you!!! :-)
Later,
Les
On 9/19/2021 1:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
On 9/19/2021 2:21 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of
going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its controlled by >>>> an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to control the >>>> spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. I
have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen
button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then
begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The >>>> shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door. Still I >>>> think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an
especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest Chinese >>>> relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a
couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to
mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil trigger >>>> input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary contacts >>>> because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop. Neither >>>> affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is
momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it, and it >>>> is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion
interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and >>>> orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail mill, >>>> that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really
doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer
machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
Bob,
Just for some giggles!! Can you get access to the actual contacts.
If Yes, the try a simple piece of folded sandpaper or abrasive strip.
The attempt would be to just clean the contacts of some carbon.
If the relay is enclosed in a plastic cover maybe the cover can be
popped off and the do the same as above.
I just had an intermittent issue with a door open relay. After
replacing the relay and all worked as it should I took the cover off
the relay and inspected the contacts with a microscope. To the naked
eye there was no issue visable, however with the microscope I could
see some etching of the contact surface. At that point it was not
worth my time to clean it up and take it back to try to see if the
customer gets re-irritated. :-)
Anyhow, for what you are doing it might be a quick fix and maybe a way
to get convinced it really is the relay that is irritating you!!! :-)
Later,
Les
I've got a half dozen relays in the mail. I have three machines that
use these same relays (different names and mfgs but the same basic
relay) for a variety of switching and control. I figure it can't hurt
to have some new in package on the shelf. If a new relay fixes the
problem I probably won't worry about any further. This one worked great
for several years. I may throw some noise cancelling component on the switched side if I remember. Its not like I don't have diodes and caps laying around... heck I though I had spares of this relay, but I must
have used my last one on something. I do have an unused base. LOL.
I guess I could have swapped the spindle relay to test, but I'm just to darned busy these days.
On 9/22/2021 3:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/19/2021 1:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
On 9/19/2021 2:21 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of
going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its controlled by >>>>> an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to control >>>>> the
spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. I >>>>> have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen
button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then >>>>> begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The >>>>> shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door.
Still I
think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an
especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest Chinese >>>>> relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a >>>>> couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to
mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil
trigger
input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary contacts >>>>> because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop.
Neither
affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is
momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it,
and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion >>>>> interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and >>>>> orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail mill, >>>>> that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really >>>>> doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer
machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
Bob,
Just for some giggles!! Can you get access to the actual contacts.
If Yes, the try a simple piece of folded sandpaper or abrasive strip.
The attempt would be to just clean the contacts of some carbon.
If the relay is enclosed in a plastic cover maybe the cover can be
popped off and the do the same as above.
I just had an intermittent issue with a door open relay. After
replacing the relay and all worked as it should I took the cover off
the relay and inspected the contacts with a microscope. To the naked
eye there was no issue visable, however with the microscope I could
see some etching of the contact surface. At that point it was not
worth my time to clean it up and take it back to try to see if the
customer gets re-irritated. :-)
Anyhow, for what you are doing it might be a quick fix and maybe a way
to get convinced it really is the relay that is irritating you!!! :-)
Later,
Les
I've got a half dozen relays in the mail. I have three machines that
use these same relays (different names and mfgs but the same basic
relay) for a variety of switching and control. I figure it can't hurt
to have some new in package on the shelf. If a new relay fixes the
problem I probably won't worry about any further. This one worked
great for several years. I may throw some noise cancelling component
on the switched side if I remember. Its not like I don't have diodes
and caps laying around... heck I though I had spares of this relay,
but I must have used my last one on something. I do have an unused
base. LOL.
I guess I could have swapped the spindle relay to test, but I'm just
to darned busy these days.
Preliminary testings shows a new sub $5 relay did the trick. Ordered on Ebay shipped from Amazon. Maybe it was a sub $3 relay. LOL.
On 9/22/2021 8:08 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/22/2021 3:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/19/2021 1:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
On 9/19/2021 2:21 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit of >>>>>> going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its
controlled by
an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to
control the
spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying.
I have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen >>>>>> button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then >>>>>> begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The >>>>>> shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door.
Still I
think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an >>>>>> especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest
Chinese
relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a >>>>>> couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to >>>>>> mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil
trigger
input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary
contacts
because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop.
Neither
affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is >>>>>> momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it,
and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the motion >>>>>> interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean and >>>>>> orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail
mill,
that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really >>>>>> doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer
machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
Bob,
Just for some giggles!! Can you get access to the actual contacts.
If Yes, the try a simple piece of folded sandpaper or abrasive strip.
The attempt would be to just clean the contacts of some carbon.
If the relay is enclosed in a plastic cover maybe the cover can be
popped off and the do the same as above.
I just had an intermittent issue with a door open relay. After
replacing the relay and all worked as it should I took the cover off
the relay and inspected the contacts with a microscope. To the naked >>>> eye there was no issue visable, however with the microscope I could
see some etching of the contact surface. At that point it was not
worth my time to clean it up and take it back to try to see if the
customer gets re-irritated. :-)
Anyhow, for what you are doing it might be a quick fix and maybe a way >>>> to get convinced it really is the relay that is irritating you!!! :-)
Later,
Les
I've got a half dozen relays in the mail. I have three machines that
use these same relays (different names and mfgs but the same basic
relay) for a variety of switching and control. I figure it can't
hurt to have some new in package on the shelf. If a new relay fixes
the problem I probably won't worry about any further. This one
worked great for several years. I may throw some noise cancelling
component on the switched side if I remember. Its not like I don't
have diodes and caps laying around... heck I though I had spares of
this relay, but I must have used my last one on something. I do have
an unused base. LOL.
I guess I could have swapped the spindle relay to test, but I'm just
to darned busy these days.
Preliminary testings shows a new sub $5 relay did the trick. Ordered
on Ebay shipped from Amazon. Maybe it was a sub $3 relay. LOL.
Congrats Bob!!
You know that given the same daily workload feels like a lot more as you age?? ;-) Or something like that!! LOL
Les
Looks like maybe a combination of a bad crimp and a bad mounting block
may have been causing the whole problem. The original relay is back in
the machine.
On 9/22/2021 6:33 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
On 9/22/2021 8:08 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/22/2021 3:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/19/2021 1:20 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
On 9/19/2021 2:21 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 10:31:00 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
On the smallest mill I use regularly It has developed the habit
of going
into E-Stop when the coolant pump starts and stops. Its
controlled by
an HH52P 24VDC coil relay. The same model relay is used to
control the
spindle on-off signal to the VFD.
All I use this machine for is engraving, but its still annoying. >>>>>>> I have
a simple work around. Start the coolant pump manually (on screen >>>>>>> button), and if it trips the e-stop reset and start it again. Then >>>>>>> begin code execution. To be honest its not that big of a deal. The >>>>>>> shop is busy and I mostly just want to get parts out the door.
Still I
think it has to be a simple noise problem of some kind. Maybe an >>>>>>> especially noisy arc when the relay actuates.
I'm going to try a new relay. These are probably the cheapest
Chinese
relays available. (I did have to replace the spindle start relay a >>>>>>> couple years ago).
What do you think is most likely? Do you think there is a way to >>>>>>> mitigate it? Maybe with a choke? Possibly a diode on the coil >>>>>>> trigger
input?
I think if it is the relay itself its most likely the primary
contacts
because it happens sometimes on both pump start and pump stop.
Neither
affects the machine position since both happen when the machine is >>>>>>> momentarily stationary. Its just annoying.
It did not happen at all for the first several years I owned it, >>>>>>> and it
is the oldest CNC machine I use regularly. (almost everyday)
It is a Mach3 controlled machine using a Smoothstepper for the
motion
interface between the PC and the BOB. The wiring is pretty clean >>>>>>> and
orderly and I have checked every connection on the machine.
Other than being a cheap (relatively) Chinese cast iron dovetail >>>>>>> mill,
that like many I had to fix before it was passable to use, It really >>>>>>> doesn't have any other problems. Before getting other newer
machines I
made a lot of molds with this little machine.
Well, now to order some more relays.
Bob,
Just for some giggles!! Can you get access to the actual contacts. >>>>> If Yes, the try a simple piece of folded sandpaper or abrasive strip. >>>>> The attempt would be to just clean the contacts of some carbon.
If the relay is enclosed in a plastic cover maybe the cover can be
popped off and the do the same as above.
I just had an intermittent issue with a door open relay. After
replacing the relay and all worked as it should I took the cover off >>>>> the relay and inspected the contacts with a microscope. To the naked >>>>> eye there was no issue visable, however with the microscope I could
see some etching of the contact surface. At that point it was not
worth my time to clean it up and take it back to try to see if the
customer gets re-irritated. :-)
Anyhow, for what you are doing it might be a quick fix and maybe a way >>>>> to get convinced it really is the relay that is irritating you!!! :-) >>>>>
Later,
Les
I've got a half dozen relays in the mail. I have three machines
that use these same relays (different names and mfgs but the same
basic relay) for a variety of switching and control. I figure it
can't hurt to have some new in package on the shelf. If a new relay
fixes the problem I probably won't worry about any further. This
one worked great for several years. I may throw some noise
cancelling component on the switched side if I remember. Its not
like I don't have diodes and caps laying around... heck I though I
had spares of this relay, but I must have used my last one on
something. I do have an unused base. LOL.
I guess I could have swapped the spindle relay to test, but I'm just
to darned busy these days.
Preliminary testings shows a new sub $5 relay did the trick. Ordered
on Ebay shipped from Amazon. Maybe it was a sub $3 relay. LOL.
Congrats Bob!!
You know that given the same daily workload feels like a lot more as
you age?? ;-) Or something like that!! LOL
Les
Less feels like more.
On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 10:52:25 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
Looks like maybe a combination of a bad crimp and a bad mounting block
may have been causing the whole problem. The original relay is back in
the machine.
Well... at least you didn't have to drive 100 miles in between
attempts...
All that old security wiring experience paying dividends ;-)
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 88:46:24 |
| Calls: | 6,658 |
| Files: | 12,203 |
| Messages: | 5,334,020 |