• 3/4 Round Corner Gage

    From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 27 14:36:03 2023
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one. In the past I have made "special" angle blocks
    that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular angle. It has
    a clearance where the edge of the part is located assuring burrs, dings,
    and chamfers have little or no affect in the location of the edge in relationship to the angle block. This allows me to
    indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math to tell
    me where that edge is. It works, but its cludgy, requires some math (or
    cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the location of the
    exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made. It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its central
    axis. Then 1/4 of the round if machined away. When its placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and height of the edge more
    easily than my previous method. In addition it doesn't matter what
    angle the work piece is mounted at to find that edge. It should work
    for most work piece angles of any angle between 90 and 0 where the
    widest point of the tool is accessible with the probe or edge finder.
    Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S. Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it. Does this tool have a proper name?



    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon Feb 27 22:15:47 2023
    On 27/02/2023 21:36, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one.  In the past I have made "special" angle
    blocks that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular
    angle.  It has a clearance where the edge of the part is located
    assuring burrs, dings, and chamfers have little or no affect in the
    location of the edge in relationship to the angle block.  This allows
    me to indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math
    to tell me where that edge is.  It works, but its cludgy, requires
    some math (or cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the
    location of the exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made.  It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its
    central axis.  Then 1/4 of the round if machined away.  When its
    placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and
    height of the edge more easily than my previous method.  In addition
    it doesn't matter what angle the work piece is mounted at to find that edge.  It should work for most work piece angles of any angle between
    90 and 0 where the widest point of the tool is accessible with the
    probe or edge finder. Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S.  Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it.  Does this tool have a proper name?



    The sort of thing shown here https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/clever-tools-finding-edge . I could
    do with one of those.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to David Billington on Mon Feb 27 15:23:47 2023
    On 2/27/2023 3:15 PM, David Billington wrote:
    On 27/02/2023 21:36, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one.  In the past I have made "special" angle
    blocks that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular
    angle.  It has a clearance where the edge of the part is located
    assuring burrs, dings, and chamfers have little or no affect in the
    location of the edge in relationship to the angle block.  This allows
    me to indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math
    to tell me where that edge is.  It works, but its cludgy, requires
    some math (or cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the
    location of the exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made.  It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its
    central axis.  Then 1/4 of the round if machined away.  When its
    placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and
    height of the edge more easily than my previous method.  In addition
    it doesn't matter what angle the work piece is mounted at to find that
    edge.  It should work for most work piece angles of any angle between
    90 and 0 where the widest point of the tool is accessible with the
    probe or edge finder. Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S.  Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it.  Does this tool have a proper name?



    The sort of thing shown here https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/clever-tools-finding-edge . I could
    do with one of those.



    Yep. I was thinking plane round (using some TGP stock on hand), but
    that's the basic idea.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Feb 28 00:01:11 2023
    On 27/02/2023 23:27, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ttjahk$3c2v5$1@dont-email.me...

    -------------------

    Here is another version: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/8342ay/edgefinding_with_coax_indicator/


    That looks to be what is being described in this video but another
    design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGOkwdJB6T0 .

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 27 18:27:50 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ttjahk$3c2v5$1@dont-email.me...

    -------------------

    Here is another version: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/8342ay/edgefinding_with_coax_indicator/

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Feb 27 17:15:21 2023
    On 2/27/2023 4:27 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ttjahk$3c2v5$1@dont-email.me...

    -------------------

    Here is another version: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/8342ay/edgefinding_with_coax_indicator/


    I've designed one of those before for rapid probing corners in flat
    orientation with a touch probe. Just do a center find routine and you
    have the corner.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to David Billington on Mon Feb 27 17:44:08 2023
    On 2/27/2023 5:16 PM, David Billington wrote:
    On 27/02/2023 21:36, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one.  In the past I have made "special" angle
    blocks that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular
    angle.  It has a clearance where the edge of the part is located
    assuring burrs, dings, and chamfers have little or no affect in the
    location of the edge in relationship to the angle block.  This allows
    me to indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math
    to tell me where that edge is.  It works, but its cludgy, requires
    some math (or cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the
    location of the exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made.  It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its
    central axis.  Then 1/4 of the round if machined away.  When its
    placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and
    height of the edge more easily than my previous method.  In addition
    it doesn't matter what angle the work piece is mounted at to find that
    edge.  It should work for most work piece angles of any angle between
    90 and 0 where the widest point of the tool is accessible with the
    probe or edge finder. Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S.  Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it.  Does this tool have a proper name?



    Is this what you were looking at before https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    . Although potentially easy to make I'm surprised I haven't seen a
    commercial offering yet.


    Yeah, that was probably it. I finished making mine and I blew one of
    the dimensions by more than I am willing to call tolerance. I'll remake
    it tomorrow.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Tue Feb 28 00:16:06 2023
    On 27/02/2023 21:36, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one.  In the past I have made "special" angle
    blocks that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular
    angle.  It has a clearance where the edge of the part is located
    assuring burrs, dings, and chamfers have little or no affect in the
    location of the edge in relationship to the angle block.  This allows
    me to indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math
    to tell me where that edge is.  It works, but its cludgy, requires
    some math (or cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the
    location of the exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made.  It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its
    central axis.  Then 1/4 of the round if machined away.  When its
    placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and
    height of the edge more easily than my previous method.  In addition
    it doesn't matter what angle the work piece is mounted at to find that edge.  It should work for most work piece angles of any angle between
    90 and 0 where the widest point of the tool is accessible with the
    probe or edge finder. Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S.  Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it.  Does this tool have a proper name?



    Is this what you were looking at before https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    . Although potentially easy to make I'm surprised I haven't seen a
    commercial offering yet.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 28 07:29:26 2023
    "David Billington" wrote in message news:ttjh47$3creb$1@dont-email.me...

    Although potentially easy to make I'm surprised I haven't seen a
    commercial offering yet.

    -------------------------
    Google found "chair" edge finders that use the same principle. https://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Magnetic-Single-Edge-Finder/dp/B001CTIG18

    Unless the work blank has been surface ground I zero on the edges of a 1-2-3 block and use however the blank fits against the fixed jaw and end stop as
    its 0,0 corner. It's at least repeatable.

    I found one of these in an antique furniture store for initially grinding a square reference corner. https://www.aloktools.com/product/precision-v-block-and-clamp-all-angle/

    Sometimes tool boxes show up when he buys estate contents. He saves the woodworking tools for furniture repairs and wall hangers but has no
    knowledge of or clientele for the pre-CNC machinist tools, except me.

    A corner finder made with dowel pins in bored holes would eliminate possible error from a tool change or runout. It should be as accurate as your DRO.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Feb 28 10:08:06 2023
    On 2/28/2023 5:29 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington"  wrote in message news:ttjh47$3creb$1@dont-email.me...

    Although potentially easy to make I'm surprised I haven't seen a
    commercial offering yet.

    -------------------------
    Google found "chair" edge finders that use the same principle. https://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Magnetic-Single-Edge-Finder/dp/B001CTIG18


    A chair edge finder and the center corner finder you showed earlier seem
    to me to be mostly for finding the edge/corner of a rectanguloid work
    piece clamped parallel to the table. Either in a vise or other clamping
    setup. The tool in the video link David posted is exactly what I need
    (and made badly yesterday). Its for indicating in an edge of a
    rectanguloid that is significantly not parallel to the table. Its not necessarily super precise as the Z height is established by touching
    off, but an indicator or even a cylindrical indicator can get you pretty
    darn close with the 1/2 method. I've done it in the past with job
    specific shop made angle plates and indicated off the angle plate held
    to the vise with magnets, but it has a couple flaws. If the thickness
    is variable from piece to piece or unknown I have to take a measurement
    and do one more piece of math. By using the cylinder on an exposed edge
    I can just indicate and zero. Further more I only need one for many
    mounting angles instead of making a new angle plate for every new angle.


    Unless the work blank has been surface ground I zero on the edges of a
    1-2-3 block and use however the blank fits against the fixed jaw and end
    stop as its 0,0 corner. It's at least repeatable.

    Work stop and vise jaw is pretty good for flatish squarish pieces. I've
    both made and purchased table mounted work stops, and have them for
    "almost" every mill in the shop. I also have pieces for several more of
    the articulating variety on the assembly bench waiting on back side
    machining when I have a chance. I generally prefer table mounted over
    vise mounted as they can remain in place and move out of the way at the
    same time maintain "pretty good" part location. Shop blocks get used
    for so many things I've lost track. One of the most common is making a
    batch of "identical" molds where it would be convenient to have a
    consistent thickness from part to part and day to day. I use a 123
    block with my height setter on the fixture. The I calculate the final thickness based on the bottom of the part instead of the top. I still
    have a top zero, but is relative to the fixture instead of the work piece.



    I found one of these in an antique furniture store for initially
    grinding a square reference corner. https://www.aloktools.com/product/precision-v-block-and-clamp-all-angle/


    There was one of those in the tools, fixtures, etc of my grandfather's
    that my dad passed on to me. I've only used it once, but at the time it
    was the only tool I had that would do the job.


    Sometimes tool boxes show up when he buys estate contents. He saves the woodworking tools for furniture repairs and wall hangers but has no
    knowledge of or clientele for the pre-CNC machinist tools, except me.

    Sounds like a great arrangement. I hope he gets front of the line
    treatment when he needs something machined.


    A corner finder made with dowel pins in bored holes would eliminate
    possible error from a tool change or runout. It should be as accurate as
    your DRO.


    For manual edge finding I usually use the cut and go method or a
    rotating clicker type edge finder. The clicker gets me close, then I
    bump out and back slower. I don't know how "accurate" I am with it, but
    its very repeatable. I can get a higher degree of accuracy with an
    indicator and a gage block if I need to.

    The corner finder like you linked earlier is for electronic probing
    quickly on the CNC for me, but of course an indicator in/on the spindle
    or a coaxial would also work with it.

    A dowel pin corner tool would be pretty easy to make on the CNC mills.
    Good enough for wood workers anyway. LOL. The advantage would be they
    can be made in a single setup reducing tolerance stacking issues.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 28 13:32:38 2023
    When I've sent odd-shaped designs to a machine shop they left orthogonal reference surfaces on the blank as long as possible.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Feb 28 12:22:24 2023
    On 2/28/2023 11:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    When I've sent odd-shaped designs to a machine shop they left orthogonal reference surfaces on the blank as long as possible.


    You're picking on me for saying rectanguloid right? LOL




    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Feb 28 19:31:19 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ttlk9h$3mb5g$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/28/2023 11:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    When I've sent odd-shaped designs to a machine shop they left orthogonal reference surfaces on the blank as long as possible.


    You're picking on me for saying rectanguloid right? LOL

    Bob La Londe
    ------------------------------------------

    Absotively not, I was in Mensa where conflating words is a respected art
    form. I make up words all the time, then Google them and find that someone
    else beat me. Can you use it in a logical sentence along with with Phugoid
    (a real word)?

    In rec.aviation.military a couple of us had fun extending a fake German
    word, Versuchsunterwasserflugzeugtraeger, an experimental submarine aircraft carrier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine

    We never stretched it as far as this classic compounded word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizit%C3%A4tenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft
    A German pointed out that such long words were then abbreviated into short ones, i.e. Kapitaenleutnant (ship's captain) became Kaleun.

    A Bavarian expletive: Himmiherrgotzaggramentzefixallelujamilextamarschscheissglumpfaregtz!!!

    In TV writing the general term for fake technical words that are hard for actors to pronounce is Phlebotinum. A "Buffy" writer invented the word, but
    the idea had been used earlier to torment Star Trek's Dr Crusher.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Feb 28 19:25:16 2023
    On 2/28/2023 5:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ttlk9h$3mb5g$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/28/2023 11:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    When I've sent odd-shaped designs to a machine shop they left
    orthogonal reference surfaces on the blank as long as possible.


    You're picking on me for saying rectanguloid right?  LOL

    Bob La Londe
    ------------------------------------------

    Absotively not, I was in Mensa

    Between kintergarden and 1st grade somebody gave me an IQ test. Many
    years later I was told (third hand) they had never seen a higher score
    for my age. I remember the test, but nobody told me it was an IQ test.
    I knew some of the answers, figured out some of the answers, and just
    guessed at the rest. Most of them I guessed at. I guess I guessed
    correctly on a lot of those guesses.

    Having struggled with some things I thought should have been easy for
    somebody of my statuesque intellect I took an IQ test on my own in my
    late 20s. I was not a staggering genius. Mensa might have allowed me to
    hang around, but only grudgingly. I guess the assessment of my
    intellect might have been followed an up and down path at varying speeds depending on the current inclination. One might say it was a fugoid
    about a rectanguloid coming back from whence it began.

    P.S. I do not believe the temporal scholastic gain of being promoted
    out of your grade into a higher grade (twice for me) outweighs the
    benefit of social development with peers of your own age. I didn't do a
    damn thing useful with those two years gained.


    where conflating words is a respected art
    form. I make up words all the time, then Google them and find that
    someone else beat me. Can you use it in a logical sentence along with
    with Phugoid (a real word)?

    In rec.aviation.military a couple of us had fun extending a fake German
    word, Versuchsunterwasserflugzeugtraeger, an experimental submarine
    aircraft carrier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine

    We never stretched it as far as this classic compounded word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizit%C3%A4tenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft
    A German pointed out that such long words were then abbreviated into
    short ones, i.e. Kapitaenleutnant (ship's captain) became Kaleun.

    A Bavarian expletive: Himmiherrgotzaggramentzefixallelujamilextamarschscheissglumpfaregtz!!!

    In TV writing the general term for fake technical words that are hard
    for actors to pronounce is Phlebotinum. A "Buffy" writer invented the
    word, but the idea had been used earlier to torment Star Trek's Dr Crusher.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Wed Mar 1 07:48:56 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ttmd2c$3ojau$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/28/2023 5:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    Absotively not, I was in Mensa

    Between kintergarden and 1st grade somebody gave me an IQ test. Many
    years later I was told (third hand) they had never seen a higher score
    for my age.

    --------------------

    I claim that I got in by lying about my age. My parents wouldn't tell me
    what my score was. IQ scores never came up in discussions, they were more likely laments about how intelligence alone doesn't guarantee success, or random wanderings as I sometimes do here, perhaps while batting balloons to
    the kids within the circle.

    During economic downturns a large percentage of Mensans were unemployed, and didn't care or need to change our generally frugal lifestyles. One of then
    was the caterer I worked for at the Renaissance Faire. Another ran a laundromat. I meet interesting and very highly educated people selling stuff
    at flea markets. The founder of this was previously an aerospace engineer: https://www.warmlite.com/
    A common thread seems to be self-reliant independence and unconcern for
    social status.

    I badly twisted my ankle on a joint NH-MA Mensa mountain climb. The person
    who drove me to a nearby hospital was Head of Emergency Services at a large Boston hospital, but he wasn't licensed in NH. He was upset about being associated with the rustic crutch I had lashed together, though the doctor
    who saw me camped in northern Canada and loved it.

    One might say it was a fugoid about a rectanguloid coming back from whence
    it began.

    Congrats, you did it. I would have compared the phugoid oscillation between kinetic and potential energy to tool chatter.

    P.S. I do not believe the temporal scholastic gain of being promoted out
    of your grade into a higher grade (twice for me) outweighs the benefit of >social development with peers of your own age. I didn't do a damn thing >useful with those two years gained.

    I got into AP classes at the same time as moving to a new school, and found
    the AP students accepting of outsiders since they were themselves. Theatre people were particularly tolerant since they are very much outsiders. As I
    was part of the tech crew instead of the talent they put up with my more 'normative' behavior. The contrast with reserved, introverted chemistry students was extreme, and I think a useful exposure to those who act on feelings instead of thoughts, since the script writer had already done the thinking.
    https://www.betterup.com/blog/code-switching

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 1 08:27:36 2023
    Elon Musk's Twitter activity resembles a pun-filled Mensa discussion.

    "What do you call an infinite gear ratio?
    All torque, no action."

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Wed Mar 1 09:59:40 2023
    On 2/27/2023 2:36 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I'd like to know who has made one of these and any tips you would care
    to share for making one.  In the past I have made "special" angle blocks that capture an over all rectangular part at a particular angle.  It has
    a clearance where the edge of the part is located assuring burrs, dings,
    and chamfers have little or no affect in the location of the edge in relationship to the angle block.  This allows me to
    indicate/probe/touchoff the angle plate/block and use the math to tell
    me where that edge is.  It works, but its cludgy, requires some math (or
    cad to do the math) when often what I want/need is the location of the exposed edge.

    Recently a YouTuber posted a tool they had made.  It is basically a
    cylinder of known diameter with a clearance hole bored down its central axis.  Then 1/4 of the round if machined away.  When its placed over the exposed edge it can be probed to find center and height of the edge more easily than my previous method.  In addition it doesn't matter what
    angle the work piece is mounted at to find that edge.  It should work
    for most work piece angles of any angle between 90 and 0 where the
    widest point of the tool is accessible with the probe or edge finder. Of course 90 and 0 would not require the tool.

    P.S.  Its such a simple elegant solution I am sure the YouTuber wasn't
    the first one to think of it.  Does this tool have a proper name?




    Anyway, I made the tool. It took me three tries to get one that was
    marginally okay. By okay I mean its got under 1 thou taper on each
    face, but its within half thousandth of dimension along its length.
    That means if I touch off near center it should be within a few tenths.
    Far better than the clicker I used to locate off of it. 4 of the 8
    holes have been drilled. Now I need to touch off and double check
    center and zero from the other end to drill the other 4 holes. The
    pilot is a stub length 1/16 (.0625) solid carbide drill. Then finish to
    size with a longer HSS drill.

    I blame the taper on my cheap Chinese mill vise. I probed the bed once
    and it was a couple thousandths out of flat along its nominal 8 inch
    width.Most times I use machined step jaws, but for this I set the collet
    block on the bed of the vise. I figured for the nominal 1 inch length
    of my tool it would be tolerable. It was, but just barely. Normally I
    use machined in place step jaws in that vise. Its just a bit to big to
    fit on my tiny 6x12 surface grinder.

    The hard part was measuring it, and its why I badly hosed the first two.
    A replaceable anvil micrometer might have been able to reach past
    center, but I don't have one. I tried a caliper but my measurements
    were all over the place. Finally I did something I do not like doing.
    I took the collet block out of the vise to measure the flat with a
    height gage on the surface plate. I don't like multiple setups on parts
    if its at all avoidable. Every time you put it back you have another
    chance to screw it up when you screw it down.

    I guess next I have to deburr those tiny holes in each plate before
    continuing on with the next step at the end of paragraph one.

    Here is a picture showing the application on the Maker's & Builders
    group on Facebook. I do not believe you need to log on to see it.Try
    not to have to big of a laugh at my crazy setup. Okay go ahead. Laugh.
    The angle blocks turned out to be a good idea. The stack up in the
    vise had the mold plate off by a full degree from its protractor.
    Assuming those cheap import angle blocks are accurate. LOL.

    https://tinyurl.com/edgetool1

    ... and if you don't trust the hidden tiny url here is the full URl.

    https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334305885_3508467622709773_8540884480464759033_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=ebJeFY-Q2DcAX_IDRyM&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=00_AfD6G14ocqNRsIySPvnx52X7itxd7u9UiNdabqzOOHTaHQ&oe=
    640556F9

    If you happen to be on FB, here is the link to it in the group. I do
    not think you have to be logged in to see it this way either. You do
    have to join the group to post or comment.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=6329813090376689&set=pcb.1408314123040199






    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 2 18:24:47 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tto09u$ees$1@dont-email.me...

    The hard part was measuring it, and its why I badly hosed the first two.
    A replaceable anvil micrometer might have been able to reach past
    center, but I don't have one. ...
    ----------------
    The 1" Mitutoyo Uni-Mike will, the outer edge of the spindle face can be centered on up to a 1" circle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 09:23:41 2023
    On 3/2/2023 4:24 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tto09u$ees$1@dont-email.me...

    The hard part was measuring it, and its why I badly hosed the first two.
     A replaceable anvil micrometer might have been able to reach past
    center, but I don't have one.  ...
    ----------------
    The 1" Mitutoyo Uni-Mike will, the outer edge of the spindle face can be centered on up to a 1" circle.


    Yep, exactly the type pf mic I was thinking of. I would have still had
    to take the block out of the vise unless I side milled the dimension.
    Buy end milling the dimension I was able to exhibit my inner cheapness
    and use a used mill.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 12:59:51 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ttvrae$10tnd$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/2/2023 4:24 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tto09u$ees$1@dont-email.me...

    The hard part was measuring it, and its why I badly hosed the first two.
    A replaceable anvil micrometer might have been able to reach past
    center, but I don't have one. ...
    ----------------
    The 1" Mitutoyo Uni-Mike will, the outer edge of the spindle face can be centered on up to a 1" circle.


    Yep, exactly the type pf mic I was thinking of. I would have still had
    to take the block out of the vise unless I side milled the dimension.
    Buy end milling the dimension I was able to exhibit my inner cheapness
    and use a used mill.

    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist

    -----------------------

    In case my brief description was unclear, it could measure the height (the radius) of a quadrant milled from a cylinder of up to 1" diameter. With the spindle outer edge at the center the toe of the anvil clamping surface just touches a 1" cylinder and clears a 3/4" one. I checked with the center
    cutoff tool pip of rod stock.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 11:05:29 2023
    On 3/4/2023 10:59 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ttvrae$10tnd$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/2/2023 4:24 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tto09u$ees$1@dont-email.me...

    The hard part was measuring it, and its why I badly hosed the first two.
      A replaceable anvil micrometer might have been able to reach past
    center, but I don't have one.  ...
    ----------------
    The 1" Mitutoyo Uni-Mike will, the outer edge of the spindle face can
    be centered on up to a 1" circle.


    Yep, exactly the type pf mic I was thinking of.   I would have still had
    to take the block out of the vise unless I side milled the dimension.
    Buy end milling the dimension I was able to exhibit my inner cheapness
    and use a used mill.

    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist

    -----------------------

    In case my brief description was unclear, it could measure the height
    (the radius) of a quadrant milled from a cylinder of up to 1" diameter.
    With the spindle outer edge at the center the toe of the anvil clamping surface just touches a 1" cylinder and clears a 3/4" one. I checked with
    the center cutoff tool pip of rod stock.


    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the
    center bore (to reach past center). I'd have to raise the vise or mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that. LOL. To be
    fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 4 17:03:37 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me...

    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the
    center bore (to reach past center). I'd have to raise the vise or mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that. LOL. To be
    fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had been
    milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically? https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you owned
    one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 16:05:40 2023
    On 3/4/2023 3:03 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me...

    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the center bore (to reach past center).  I'd have to raise the vise or mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that.  LOL.  To be
    fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had been
    milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically? https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you
    owned one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.


    ****Ultimately you can get better cuts by ->NOT<- dismounting and
    remounting the part you are making multiple times. While it may be
    possible it increases the chance of operator induced error
    exponentially.****

    Yes, I did take the part out to measure it. I used a height gage. The
    same one I use for measuring tool heights in tool holders for the CNC
    mills. By touching the TGP round surface and zeroing you can a quite
    accurate measurement. (I'm pretty sure I mentioned i started with a
    piece of TGP rod) The funny part here is I could have used that method
    in place on the mill, but I had already dismounted the part once. The
    mill table being pretty new is quite good enough. My results might have
    been better.

    Since I cut it to final dimensions as stated by end milling and ->NOT<-
    side milling for practical reasons I could not measure it with the mic
    you and I both thought of without taking it out of the vise or by boring
    a large hole in the table of the mill. While I am not normally opposed
    to modifying expensive tools if it makes money I would have had a hard
    to justifying to myself making a large hole in the table so the barrel
    of the mic could hang down.

    I took it out of the vise. I didn't have that mic anyway. I used a
    height gage on the surface plate.

    I would also point out that I didn't watch ANYBODY'S video step by step
    as a tutorial. Its often counter productive as I rarely have exactly
    the same tools they have. I knew I needed one for the job, what
    tolerances I could live with, and I made one with the tools I had handy.

    Yes, there were better methods of measurement. I used one, although I
    did not use it in the best way. The mic you and I both thought of was
    actually not one of them as the part would still have needed to be
    dismounted to use. Even if it would do the job I don't have one. Yes I
    have lots of gage blocks. Building a gage block stack would have been
    no better, and has no bearing on the fact that we both considered a tool
    that was not actually the optimum tool for the job even though it appear
    to be.

    I'm not sure what the argument is here. I successfully made the part
    the tool was made for and have it on the front bench for packaging now.
    I detailed how it was not a perfect tool just for the edification of
    others. I pointed out how we both initially thought of the same
    measuring tool. I pointed out how that tool would not have been any
    better, and in fact the choice I made was better even if I didn't use it
    the best way. I even noted (in this post) what would have been the
    better way. What else is it you are trying to prove here? That I
    didn't do it exactly the same way as Clough? Okay. I didn't. He
    didn't make a perfect tool either. Just ask him. That I didn't make a
    perfect tool? Admitted already. That I didn't use the best method?
    Admitted. That you are smarter than me? Okay, maybe. That doesn't
    mean I'm not smart enough. That my method was a failure? I disagree.
    My part is not only finished its been tested. The holes in opposing
    pieces at a 45 degree angle line up and the pull pins (4 of them) drop
    in easily. 8 holes in 4 pieces had to line up 4 times. They do. The
    mold makes good castings (also tested). If I throw the gage away right
    after I hit send on this post I'm money ahead because the job got done.

    If I offended you by pointing out I had considered the same tool and
    that I didn't agree it would have been ideal after I thought about it...
    sorry. I haven't change my mind though. Ultimately I think the reason
    I didn't get a "better" part was unrelated. I think as already detailed
    its because its was in a cheap vise.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 21:54:19 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tu0is5$1306o$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/4/2023 3:03 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me...

    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the center bore (to reach past center). I'd have to raise the vise or mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that. LOL. To be
    fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had been
    milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically? https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you owned one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.


    ****Ultimately you can get better cuts by ->NOT<- dismounting and
    remounting the part you are making multiple times. While it may be
    possible it increases the chance of operator induced error
    exponentially.****

    Yes, I did take the part out to measure it. I used a height gage. The
    same one I use for measuring tool heights in tool holders for the CNC
    mills. By touching the TGP round surface and zeroing you can a quite
    accurate measurement. (I'm pretty sure I mentioned i started with a
    piece of TGP rod) The funny part here is I could have used that method
    in place on the mill, but I had already dismounted the part once. The
    mill table being pretty new is quite good enough. My results might have
    been better.

    Since I cut it to final dimensions as stated by end milling and ->NOT<-
    side milling for practical reasons I could not measure it with the mic
    you and I both thought of without taking it out of the vise or by boring
    a large hole in the table of the mill. While I am not normally opposed
    to modifying expensive tools if it makes money I would have had a hard
    to justifying to myself making a large hole in the table so the barrel
    of the mic could hang down.

    I took it out of the vise. I didn't have that mic anyway. I used a
    height gage on the surface plate.

    I would also point out that I didn't watch ANYBODY'S video step by step
    as a tutorial. Its often counter productive as I rarely have exactly
    the same tools they have. I knew I needed one for the job, what
    tolerances I could live with, and I made one with the tools I had handy.

    Yes, there were better methods of measurement. I used one, although I
    did not use it in the best way. The mic you and I both thought of was
    actually not one of them as the part would still have needed to be
    dismounted to use. Even if it would do the job I don't have one. Yes I
    have lots of gage blocks. Building a gage block stack would have been
    no better, and has no bearing on the fact that we both considered a tool
    that was not actually the optimum tool for the job even though it appear
    to be.

    I'm not sure what the argument is here. I successfully made the part
    the tool was made for and have it on the front bench for packaging now.
    I detailed how it was not a perfect tool just for the edification of
    others. I pointed out how we both initially thought of the same
    measuring tool. I pointed out how that tool would not have been any
    better, and in fact the choice I made was better even if I didn't use it
    the best way. I even noted (in this post) what would have been the
    better way. What else is it you are trying to prove here? That I
    didn't do it exactly the same way as Clough? Okay. I didn't. He
    didn't make a perfect tool either. Just ask him. That I didn't make a
    perfect tool? Admitted already. That I didn't use the best method?
    Admitted. That you are smarter than me? Okay, maybe. That doesn't
    mean I'm not smart enough. That my method was a failure? I disagree.
    My part is not only finished its been tested. The holes in opposing
    pieces at a 45 degree angle line up and the pull pins (4 of them) drop
    in easily. 8 holes in 4 pieces had to line up 4 times. They do. The
    mold makes good castings (also tested). If I throw the gage away right
    after I hit send on this post I'm money ahead because the job got done.

    If I offended you by pointing out I had considered the same tool and
    that I didn't agree it would have been ideal after I thought about it...
    sorry. I haven't change my mind though. Ultimately I think the reason
    I didn't get a "better" part was unrelated. I think as already detailed
    its because its was in a cheap vise.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    ---------------------------------
    I commented on the Mitutoyo Uni-Mike because you mentioned the type and I
    have one, not on your procedure. I try to learn how little explanation is adequate, and how I might be unintentionally misunderstood.

    I haven't made a similar part to actually test but I think it could be
    measured without removing the work from the vise with the mike's graduated barrel either upward or horizontal, the carbide spindle face in the center corner and the clamped "anvil" plate below or beside on the OD of the
    cylinder. The contact points would be (barely) in line and the side of the spindle against the other cut would help align the mike square to the work.
    The anvil clamp is 6mm thick and 5/16" or larger parallels should provide clearance.

    In the video he measured in the vise with a standard mike and 0.400" gage block. I can't copy video procedures exactly either but good ones show the problems to be solved and prompt ideas for alternate solutions.

    At 0.0000" the 0.250" dia spindle clears the frame toe by ~0.095". If you
    were thinking of reversing the mike, barrel down, the flat anvil resting on
    the quadrant cut, the toe would block the spindle from contacting the OD opposite the center. What the Uni-Mike can or can't do is not evident from photos, I had to experiment and then I shared what I found.

    If you decide to buy a Uni-Mike or luck onto a good deal as I did (minus the anvils) it appears to be able to make this quadrant cutout measurement on
    up to its full 1" OD capacity. Otherwise I haven't used mine enough to
    justify the retail price.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Mar 4 21:51:40 2023
    On 3/4/2023 8:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu0is5$1306o$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/4/2023 3:03 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me...

    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the
    center bore (to reach past center).  I'd have to raise the vise or mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that.  LOL.  To be
    fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had been
    milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically?
    https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/
    He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you
    owned one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.


    ****Ultimately you can get better cuts by ->NOT<- dismounting and
    remounting the part you are making multiple times.  While it may be
    possible it increases the chance of operator induced error
    exponentially.****

    Yes, I did take the part out to measure it.  I used a height gage.  The same one I use for measuring tool heights in tool holders for the CNC mills.  By touching the TGP round surface and zeroing you can a quite accurate measurement.  (I'm pretty sure I mentioned i started with a
    piece of TGP rod)  The funny part here is I could have used that method
    in place on the mill, but I had already dismounted the part once.  The
    mill table being pretty new is quite good enough. My results might have
    been better.

    Since I cut it to final dimensions as stated by end milling and ->NOT<-
    side milling for practical reasons I could not measure it with the mic
    you and I both thought of without taking it out of the vise or by boring
    a large hole in the table of the mill.  While I am not normally opposed
    to modifying expensive tools if it makes money I would have had a hard
    to justifying to myself making a large hole in the table so the barrel
    of the mic could hang down.

    I took it out of the vise.  I didn't have that mic anyway.  I used a
    height gage on the surface plate.

    I would also point out that I didn't watch ANYBODY'S video step by step
    as a tutorial.  Its often counter productive as I rarely have exactly
    the same tools they have.  I knew I needed one for the job, what
    tolerances I could live with, and I made one with the tools I had handy.

    Yes, there were better methods of measurement.  I used one, although I
    did not use it in the best way.  The mic you and I both thought of was actually not one of them as the part would still have needed to be
    dismounted to use.  Even if it would do the job I don't have one.  Yes I have lots of gage blocks.  Building a gage block stack would have been
    no better, and has no bearing on the fact that we both considered a tool
    that was not actually the optimum tool for the job even though it appear
    to be.

    I'm not sure what the argument is here.  I successfully made the part
    the tool was made for and have it on the front bench for packaging now.
    I detailed how it was not a perfect tool just for the edification of others.  I pointed out how we both initially thought of the same
    measuring tool.  I pointed out how that tool would not have been any
    better, and in fact the choice I made was better even if I didn't use it
    the best way.  I even noted (in this post) what would have been the
    better way.  What else is it you are trying to prove here?  That I
    didn't do it exactly the same way as Clough?  Okay.  I didn't.  He
    didn't make a perfect tool either.  Just ask him.  That I didn't make a perfect tool?  Admitted already.  That I didn't use the best method? Admitted.  That you are smarter than me?  Okay, maybe.  That doesn't
    mean I'm not smart enough.  That my method was a failure?  I disagree.
    My part is not only finished its been tested.  The holes in opposing
    pieces at a 45 degree angle line up and the pull pins (4 of them) drop
    in easily.  8 holes in 4 pieces had to line up 4 times.  They do.  The mold makes good castings (also tested).  If I throw the gage away right after I hit send on this post I'm money ahead because the job got done.

    If I offended you by pointing out I had considered the same tool and
    that I didn't agree it would have been ideal after I thought about it... sorry.  I haven't change my mind though.  Ultimately I think the reason
    I didn't get a "better" part was unrelated.  I think as already detailed
    its because its was in a cheap vise.


    After watching this discussion , I have decided to interrupt my
    current project - a fixture to sharpen the ends of end mills - to make
    one of these . Beats trying to figure out why the truck won't run well .
    I'm about to just buy an Edelbrock to put on it . The Holley is just
    pissin' me off .
    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 5 07:49:04 2023
    "Snag" wrote in message news:tu13k8$17l2l$1@dont-email.me...

    After watching this discussion , I have decided to interrupt my
    current project - a fixture to sharpen the ends of end mills - to make
    one of these . Beats trying to figure out why the truck won't run well .
    I'm about to just buy an Edelbrock to put on it . The Holley is just
    pissin' me off .

    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    -------------------------

    I found weak V8 cylinders by dribbling water on the exhaust manifold and comparing the drying rates. A thermal imager to more easily identify hot and cold areas of equipment and the house insulation is on order, my birthday present. I hope it can reveal yellowjacket nests in the ground.

    In the 90's I used the company's thermal and near infrared imagers on electronics but couldn't justify the high price. I solved a problem of
    uneven heat transfer by the ancient method of filing and scraping to fit,
    which goes quickly on aluminum. The overheating component's warped heatsink
    was too thin to flycut and I didn't want to tell the engineer his prized
    find was defective. That was the only satellite project I was ever invited
    to participate in and I did a lot of extra machining at home to stay on it.
    My usual jobs were on ground support equipment like portable terminals.

    I'd like to know how you made the endmill fixture when you finish. I gamed several ways to copy mine with the equipment on hand but didn't really like
    the insecure dual angled clamping.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Mar 5 10:23:06 2023
    On 3/5/2023 6:49 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"  wrote in message news:tu13k8$17l2l$1@dont-email.me...

      After watching this discussion , I have decided to interrupt my
    current project - a fixture to sharpen the ends  of end mills - to make
    one of these . Beats trying to figure out why the truck won't run well .
    I'm about to just buy an Edelbrock to put on it . The Holley is just
    pissin' me off .

    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    -------------------------

    I found weak V8 cylinders by dribbling water on the exhaust manifold and comparing the drying rates. A thermal imager to more easily identify hot
    and cold areas of equipment and the house insulation is on order, my
    birthday present. I hope it can reveal yellowjacket nests in the ground.

    Last night I ordered an Edelbrock 600 cfm w/electric choke . The guy
    is going to buy both of the Holleys as cores for a c-note each ... I
    think most of the problems I'm having are due to excessively rich
    idle/low speed mix . This motor has just had a complete rebuild
    ...including some performance enhancing parts . Has like maybe 20 miles
    on it , plus a couple of hours idling/tuning .



    In the 90's I used the company's thermal and near infrared imagers on electronics but couldn't justify the high price. I solved a problem of
    uneven heat transfer by the ancient method of filing and scraping to
    fit, which goes quickly on aluminum. The overheating component's warped heatsink was too thin to flycut and I didn't want to tell the engineer
    his prized find was defective. That was the only satellite project I was
    ever invited to participate in and I did a lot of extra machining at
    home to stay on it. My usual jobs were on ground support equipment like portable terminals.

    I'd like to know how you made the endmill fixture when you finish. I
    gamed several ways to copy mine with the equipment on hand but didn't
    really like the insecure dual angled clamping.


    The collet holder was the easy part ... The block was machined by
    laying it on a wood block I cut on my chop saw , 5° on the length with a
    2° tilt to one side . once I established that plane I machined both long
    sides perpendicular to the bottom side , then used those flats and some tweaking to machine the 20° portion of the bottom . Short ends are
    squared to the top surface . I'll be boring the hole with the top flat
    on a drive plate on the lathe .
    I'm not sure why you think the clamping is insecure . The only
    clamping that I think might be a problem is clamping the block to the
    drive plate for the boring operation , and I think I have that figured
    out . I'll be using the rotary table to make the indexing dimples in the
    collet holder and to drill and tap the collet lock screw hole . Won't
    even have to square it on the mill table for these operations ...
    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Snag on Sun Mar 5 10:46:50 2023
    On 3/4/2023 8:51 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2023 8:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu0is5$1306o$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/4/2023 3:03 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me...

    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the
    center bore (to reach past center).  I'd have to raise the vise or mount >>> the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that.  LOL.  To be >>> fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that
    style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had
    been milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically?
    https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/ >>> He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you
    owned one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.


    ****Ultimately you can get better cuts by ->NOT<- dismounting and
    remounting the part you are making multiple times.  While it may be
    possible it increases the chance of operator induced error
    exponentially.****

    Yes, I did take the part out to measure it.  I used a height gage.  The
    same one I use for measuring tool heights in tool holders for the CNC
    mills.  By touching the TGP round surface and zeroing you can a quite
    accurate measurement.  (I'm pretty sure I mentioned i started with a
    piece of TGP rod)  The funny part here is I could have used that method
    in place on the mill, but I had already dismounted the part once.  The
    mill table being pretty new is quite good enough. My results might have
    been better.

    Since I cut it to final dimensions as stated by end milling and ->NOT<-
    side milling for practical reasons I could not measure it with the mic
    you and I both thought of without taking it out of the vise or by boring
    a large hole in the table of the mill.  While I am not normally opposed
    to modifying expensive tools if it makes money I would have had a hard
    to justifying to myself making a large hole in the table so the barrel
    of the mic could hang down.

    I took it out of the vise.  I didn't have that mic anyway.  I used a
    height gage on the surface plate.

    I would also point out that I didn't watch ANYBODY'S video step by step
    as a tutorial.  Its often counter productive as I rarely have exactly
    the same tools they have.  I knew I needed one for the job, what
    tolerances I could live with, and I made one with the tools I had handy.

    Yes, there were better methods of measurement.  I used one, although I
    did not use it in the best way.  The mic you and I both thought of was
    actually not one of them as the part would still have needed to be
    dismounted to use.  Even if it would do the job I don't have one.  Yes I >> have lots of gage blocks.  Building a gage block stack would have been
    no better, and has no bearing on the fact that we both considered a tool
    that was not actually the optimum tool for the job even though it appear
    to be.

    I'm not sure what the argument is here.  I successfully made the part
    the tool was made for and have it on the front bench for packaging now.
    I detailed how it was not a perfect tool just for the edification of
    others.  I pointed out how we both initially thought of the same
    measuring tool.  I pointed out how that tool would not have been any
    better, and in fact the choice I made was better even if I didn't use it
    the best way.  I even noted (in this post) what would have been the
    better way.  What else is it you are trying to prove here?  That I
    didn't do it exactly the same way as Clough?  Okay.  I didn't.  He
    didn't make a perfect tool either.  Just ask him.  That I didn't make a
    perfect tool?  Admitted already.  That I didn't use the best method?
    Admitted.  That you are smarter than me?  Okay, maybe.  That doesn't
    mean I'm not smart enough.  That my method was a failure?  I disagree.
    My part is not only finished its been tested.  The holes in opposing
    pieces at a 45 degree angle line up and the pull pins (4 of them) drop
    in easily.  8 holes in 4 pieces had to line up 4 times.  They do.  The
    mold makes good castings (also tested).  If I throw the gage away right
    after I hit send on this post I'm money ahead because the job got done.

    If I offended you by pointing out I had considered the same tool and
    that I didn't agree it would have been ideal after I thought about it...
    sorry.  I haven't change my mind though.  Ultimately I think the reason
    I didn't get a "better" part was unrelated.  I think as already detailed
    its because its was in a cheap vise.


      After watching this discussion , I have decided to interrupt my
    current project - a fixture to sharpen the ends  of end mills - to make
    one of these . Beats trying to figure out why the truck won't run well .
    I'm about to just buy an Edelbrock to put on it . The Holley is just
    pissin' me off .

    Excellent choice. I've run a few Holley carbs, and found they run best
    if you tinker with them between every speed run. Even if the change is
    to the adjustment you set it for three runs ago. LOL


    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 5 12:33:55 2023
    "Snag" wrote in message news:tu2fl3$1cro6$1@dont-email.me...

    I'm not sure why you think the clamping is insecure . The only
    clamping that I think might be a problem is clamping the block to the
    drive plate for the boring operation , and I think I have that figured
    out . I'll be using the rotary table to make the indexing dimples in the
    collet holder and to drill and tap the collet lock screw hole . Won't
    even have to square it on the mill table for these operations ...
    Snag

    ---------------------

    The method I suggested was kinematically accurate for the angles but gave
    the block only point and line contact that might deform under clamping and machining force and let the block slip. Your angled wood fixture should
    allow more secure clamping.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sun Mar 5 13:19:08 2023
    On 3/5/2023 11:46 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 3/4/2023 8:51 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 3/4/2023 8:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu0is5$1306o$1@dont-email.me...

    On 3/4/2023 3:03 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tu019a$11bht$2@dont-email.me... >>>>
    The barrel would have to go down for the replaceable anvil to go in the >>>> center bore (to reach past center).  I'd have to raise the vise or
    mount
    the collet block on a 2/4/6 block or something like that.  LOL.  To be >>>> fair It didn't dawn on me right away when I first thought of using that >>>> style mic either.

    Bob La Londe

    ---------------------

    I lost you. Wasn't the goal to measure if the quadrant cutout had
    been milled exactly to the center, horizontally and vertically?
    https://clough42.com/2017/11/30/making-split-cylinder-edge-finding-tool/ >>>>
    He used a gage block to measure it. I assumed you would have if you
    owned one, and simply tested the Uni-Mike's capability.


    ****Ultimately you can get better cuts by ->NOT<- dismounting and
    remounting the part you are making multiple times.  While it may be
    possible it increases the chance of operator induced error
    exponentially.****

    Yes, I did take the part out to measure it.  I used a height gage.  The >>> same one I use for measuring tool heights in tool holders for the CNC
    mills.  By touching the TGP round surface and zeroing you can a quite
    accurate measurement.  (I'm pretty sure I mentioned i started with a
    piece of TGP rod)  The funny part here is I could have used that method >>> in place on the mill, but I had already dismounted the part once.  The
    mill table being pretty new is quite good enough. My results might have
    been better.

    Since I cut it to final dimensions as stated by end milling and ->NOT<-
    side milling for practical reasons I could not measure it with the mic
    you and I both thought of without taking it out of the vise or by boring >>> a large hole in the table of the mill.  While I am not normally opposed >>> to modifying expensive tools if it makes money I would have had a hard
    to justifying to myself making a large hole in the table so the barrel
    of the mic could hang down.

    I took it out of the vise.  I didn't have that mic anyway.  I used a
    height gage on the surface plate.

    I would also point out that I didn't watch ANYBODY'S video step by step
    as a tutorial.  Its often counter productive as I rarely have exactly
    the same tools they have.  I knew I needed one for the job, what
    tolerances I could live with, and I made one with the tools I had handy. >>>
    Yes, there were better methods of measurement.  I used one, although I
    did not use it in the best way.  The mic you and I both thought of was
    actually not one of them as the part would still have needed to be
    dismounted to use.  Even if it would do the job I don't have one.  Yes I >>> have lots of gage blocks.  Building a gage block stack would have been
    no better, and has no bearing on the fact that we both considered a tool >>> that was not actually the optimum tool for the job even though it appear >>> to be.

    I'm not sure what the argument is here.  I successfully made the part
    the tool was made for and have it on the front bench for packaging now.
    I detailed how it was not a perfect tool just for the edification of
    others.  I pointed out how we both initially thought of the same
    measuring tool.  I pointed out how that tool would not have been any
    better, and in fact the choice I made was better even if I didn't use it >>> the best way.  I even noted (in this post) what would have been the
    better way.  What else is it you are trying to prove here?  That I
    didn't do it exactly the same way as Clough?  Okay.  I didn't.  He
    didn't make a perfect tool either.  Just ask him.  That I didn't make a >>> perfect tool?  Admitted already.  That I didn't use the best method?
    Admitted.  That you are smarter than me?  Okay, maybe.  That doesn't
    mean I'm not smart enough.  That my method was a failure?  I disagree. >>> My part is not only finished its been tested.  The holes in opposing
    pieces at a 45 degree angle line up and the pull pins (4 of them) drop
    in easily.  8 holes in 4 pieces had to line up 4 times.  They do.  The >>> mold makes good castings (also tested).  If I throw the gage away right >>> after I hit send on this post I'm money ahead because the job got done.

    If I offended you by pointing out I had considered the same tool and
    that I didn't agree it would have been ideal after I thought about it... >>> sorry.  I haven't change my mind though.  Ultimately I think the reason >>> I didn't get a "better" part was unrelated.  I think as already detailed >>> its because its was in a cheap vise.


       After watching this discussion , I have decided to interrupt my
    current project - a fixture to sharpen the ends  of end mills - to
    make one of these . Beats trying to figure out why the truck won't run
    well . I'm about to just buy an Edelbrock to put on it . The Holley is
    just pissin' me off .

    Excellent choice.  I've run a few Holley carbs, and found they run best
    if you tinker with them between every speed run.  Even if the change is
    to the adjustment you set it for three runs ago.  LOL



    I like to tinker but ... I just haven't been able to get this thing
    tinkered to the point where it's reliable . I ordered an Edelbrock 1604
    600 CFM last night . Only thing I haven't figured out yet is which
    bracket to use for the throttle/transmission cables .
    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Mar 5 14:27:27 2023
    On 3/4/2023 7:54 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    If you decide to buy a Uni-Mike or luck onto a good deal as I did (minus
    the anvils) it appears to be able to make this quadrant cutout
    measurement on up to its full 1" OD capacity. Otherwise I haven't used
    mine enough to justify the retail price.

    Likely I'll pick one up at some point and have similar usage. Rare cases.




    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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