• origin of odd decimal shaft sizes

    From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 18 20:35:17 2021
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter
    ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.

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  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to presence@MUNGEpanix.com on Wed Aug 18 16:47:41 2021
    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter >ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.


    About as close to 4mm as Damn is to swearing.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to presence@MUNGEpanix.com on Wed Aug 18 17:39:21 2021
    "Clare Snyder" wrote in message news:lesqhg5mq2ts3i4gd5bdkeerhua25i8jj0@4ax.com...

    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter >ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.


    About as close to 4mm as Damn is to swearing.
    ---------------------
    It's even closer to 5/32". Maybe the shaft was meant to be a running fit in
    a reamed hole? It's easier to make a custom OD than a small custom ID,
    though I've found second-hand reamers 0.001" over and under standard
    fractional size.

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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Wed Aug 18 23:08:20 2021
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Clare Snyder" wrote in message news:lesqhg5mq2ts3i4gd5bdkeerhua25i8jj0@4ax.com...

    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter >>ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.


    About as close to 4mm as Damn is to swearing.
    ---------------------
    It's even closer to 5/32". Maybe the shaft was meant to be a running fit in a reamed hole? It's easier to make a custom OD than a small custom ID,
    though I've found second-hand reamers 0.001" over and under standard fractional size.

    It doesn't seem to fall into the over or under by 0.001 range though. I
    can't find the motor now, but I think 0.178" is another small inch shaft
    size that I come across.

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  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Cydrome Leader on Thu Aug 19 01:27:41 2021
    On 18/08/2021 21:35, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.



    Maybe a wire gauge but I can't find a better match than the 4mm or 5/32" already mentioned even amongst obsolete wire gauges. Traditional Meccano
    shafts are 8SWG (0.160")(4.06mm). I got into work one day some years ago
    and a couple of the designers I worked with were discussing why another designer who was no longer with the company would have called up a
    spacer of 0.065", I pointed out that 0.065" was 16SWG and commonplace
    when the design was done, much less so after metrification in the UK, I
    don't know what they did to resolve the issue I left that to them as I
    was working on software.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Cydrome Leader on Thu Aug 19 08:35:34 2021
    "David Billington" wrote in message news:sfk8hu$a08$1@dont-email.me...

    On 18/08/2021 21:35, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.



    Maybe a wire gauge but I can't find a better match than the 4mm or 5/32" already mentioned even amongst obsolete wire gauges. Traditional Meccano
    shafts are 8SWG (0.160")(4.06mm). I got into work one day some years ago
    and a couple of the designers I worked with were discussing why another designer who was no longer with the company would have called up a
    spacer of 0.065", I pointed out that 0.065" was 16SWG and commonplace
    when the design was done, much less so after metrification in the UK, I
    don't know what they did to resolve the issue I left that to them as I
    was working on software.
    ----------------------------------------

    The hardware store inch-size washers I buy come in a range of almost random thicknesses, which helps when I need a shim. I suppose they were punched
    from whatever sheet stock was available cheaply, perhaps because it was out
    of spec. Their aluminum and steel rod stock is also loosely sized and
    doesn't always fit 5C collets. I've had better luck with CRS shafting which machines much better, but it's not as easily available.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Aug 19 08:47:08 2021
    "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:sfk3t3$gi1$1@reader1.panix.com...

    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Clare Snyder" wrote in message news:lesqhg5mq2ts3i4gd5bdkeerhua25i8jj0@4ax.com...

    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter >>ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.


    About as close to 4mm as Damn is to swearing.
    ---------------------
    It's even closer to 5/32". Maybe the shaft was meant to be a running fit
    in
    a reamed hole? It's easier to make a custom OD than a small custom ID,
    though I've found second-hand reamers 0.001" over and under standard fractional size.

    It doesn't seem to fall into the over or under by 0.001 range though. I
    can't find the motor now, but I think 0.178" is another small inch shaft
    size that I come across.

    ------------------------------

    There are bearing clearance standards, in fact lots of them, so pick the one you like.

    https://www.plantengineering.com/articles/sleeve-bearing-clearance-depends-on-many-factors/

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Cydrome Leader on Fri Aug 20 09:07:20 2021
    On 8/18/2021 1:35 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.




    I guess the first question would have to be is it really a "precision"
    shaft or just a piece of round bar? Even if it is precision shaft what
    are the tolerances of manufacture. Look at the notes on most any
    size/shape stock on the McMaster Carr website to see what I mean.
    Sometimes its right up on top, and sometimes you have to click on the individual product information link.

    The next question is how much does the exact size matter?

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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Aug 20 17:38:24 2021
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
    On 8/18/2021 1:35 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter
    ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.




    I guess the first question would have to be is it really a "precision"
    shaft or just a piece of round bar? Even if it is precision shaft what
    are the tolerances of manufacture. Look at the notes on most any
    size/shape stock on the McMaster Carr website to see what I mean.
    Sometimes its right up on top, and sometimes you have to click on the individual product information link.

    The next question is how much does the exact size matter?

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where
    these bizarre sizes originated.

    To be specific, C-frame fan motors have sizes like this as do some fairly expensive DC motors. If you just throw a ruler on these motors, you get
    darn close to x/32nds. If you have to make mating parts, you'll run into
    some serious problems.

    In the metric world for shafts, they seem to have nice clean ODs even on
    ground and polished shafts, even in the sum 1/4" range. 2.0, 2.5 3mm etc.
    The sleeve bearings may have more clearannce, but no big deal there.

    One servo motor in my hand has the shafts turned down to 0.1545" and it's
    no fluke. The shaft inside the motor and bearings are bigger and likely
    metric, but this number is no accident and common practice.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 20 17:31:36 2021
    "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:sfopag$24h$1@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where
    these bizarre sizes originated.

    --------------

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.

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  • From Clare Snyder@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 20 17:39:57 2021
    On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:07:20 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
    wrote:

    On 8/18/2021 1:35 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter
    ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.




    I guess the first question would have to be is it really a "precision"
    shaft or just a piece of round bar? Even if it is precision shaft what
    are the tolerances of manufacture. Look at the notes on most any
    size/shape stock on the McMaster Carr website to see what I mean.
    Sometimes its right up on top, and sometimes you have to click on the >individual product information link.

    The next question is how much does the exact size matter?
    Sometimes the shaft is unsersized to provide clearance in a
    "pricision" bearing. The shaft is 3.924mm - providing just under .003"
    running clearance in a 4mm bearing.

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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Aug 20 21:59:42 2021
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:sfopag$24h$1@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where these bizarre sizes originated.

    --------------

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.

    Dear lord you fuckers are dense and out of touch.

    There is no story about where this or 0.2175" shafts come from in
    catalogs, and they are extremely common items.

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  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Cydrome Leader on Sat Aug 21 00:15:05 2021
    On 20/08/2021 22:59, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:sfopag$24h$1@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where
    these bizarre sizes originated.

    --------------

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.
    Dear lord you fuckers are dense and out of touch.

    There is no story about where this or 0.2175" shafts come from in
    catalogs, and they are extremely common items.


    Because of how close the sizes are to fraction inch sizes, 0.2175" being
    near 7/32", I wonder if the dimensions pre-date the common tolerance
    system we use today and the bush bores were made to the fractional inch
    size and the shaft suitably undersized to give the needed running
    clearance.  The fact that the sizes are still in use today may just be a legacy thing to maintain compatibility like happens in so many other fields.

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  • From John Halpenny@21:1/5 to David Billington on Fri Aug 20 18:30:59 2021
    On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 7:15:10 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
    On 20/08/2021 22:59, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jim Wilkins <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message news:sfopag$24h$1...@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where >> these bizarre sizes originated.

    --------------

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.
    Dear lord you fuckers are dense and out of touch.

    There is no story about where this or 0.2175" shafts come from in
    catalogs, and they are extremely common items.


    Because of how close the sizes are to fraction inch sizes, 0.2175" being
    near 7/32", I wonder if the dimensions pre-date the common tolerance
    system we use today and the bush bores were made to the fractional inch
    size and the shaft suitably undersized to give the needed running
    clearance. The fact that the sizes are still in use today may just be a legacy thing to maintain compatibility like happens in so many other fields.

    Is it a standard inch size less a little bit? Sort of like a 2x4?

    John

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Aug 23 01:35:00 2021
    On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 5:35:51 AM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    The hardware store inch-size washers I buy come in a range of almost random thicknesses, which helps when I need a shim. I suppose they were punched
    from whatever sheet stock was available cheaply, perhaps because it was out of spec.

    That's not unlikely; a job shop doing stampings will frequently have leftover parts of whole sheets of material, and can make a bit more money by punching out washers than from recycling the remainder as scrap for remelting.

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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Mon Aug 23 18:45:31 2021
    whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Thursday, August 19, 2021 at 5:35:51 AM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    The hardware store inch-size washers I buy come in a range of almost random >> thicknesses, which helps when I need a shim. I suppose they were punched
    from whatever sheet stock was available cheaply, perhaps because it was out >> of spec.

    That's not unlikely; a job shop doing stampings will frequently have leftover parts of whole sheets of material, and can make a bit more money by punching out washers than from recycling the remainder as scrap for remelting.

    hardware store washers are definitely the worst of the worst, if you're
    looking for any type of consistency. I make it point to show people the
    random thicknesses in of those things. They must be running the worn out
    dies on scrap until they finally fail. Might also be the junk from setting
    up the machines.

    On the other hand, Lawson makes some real nice washers if you don't want
    to worry about sharp edges up or down. Some appear to be fineblanked.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to David Billington on Mon Aug 23 13:42:56 2021
    On 8/20/2021 4:15 PM, David Billington wrote:
    On 20/08/2021 22:59, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Cydrome Leader"  wrote in message
    news:sfopag$24h$1@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where >>> these bizarre sizes originated.

    --------------

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.
    Dear lord you fuckers are dense and out of touch.

    There is no story about where this or 0.2175" shafts come from in
    catalogs, and they are extremely common items.


    Because of how close the sizes are to fraction inch sizes, 0.2175" being
    near 7/32", I wonder if the dimensions pre-date the common tolerance
    system we use today and the bush bores were made to the fractional inch
    size and the shaft suitably undersized to give the needed running clearance.  The fact that the sizes are still in use today may just be a legacy thing to maintain compatibility like happens in so many other
    fields.



    I'm just a dense fucker, so I'll reserve any further speculation.

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  • From James Waldby@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon Aug 23 23:09:40 2021
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
    On 8/20/2021 4:15 PM, David Billington wrote:
    On 20/08/2021 22:59, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Cydrome Leader"  wrote in message
    news:sfopag$24h$1@reader1.panix.com...

    It's precision and common on small motors shafts. They make matching
    radial bearings and reamers for this size. I just can't figure out where >>>> these bizarre sizes originated.

    Motor manufacturers' catalogs might tell you.
    Dear lord you fuckers are dense and out of touch.

    There is no story about where this or 0.2175" shafts come from in
    catalogs, and they are extremely common items.

    Because of how close the sizes are to fraction inch sizes, 0.2175" being
    near 7/32", I wonder if the dimensions pre-date the common tolerance
    system we use today and the bush bores were made to the fractional inch
    size and the shaft suitably undersized to give the needed running
    clearance.  The fact that the sizes are still in use today may just be a
    legacy thing to maintain compatibility like happens in so many other
    fields.

    I'm just a dense fucker, so I'll reserve any further speculation.

    What? Not going to post? Considerations like not knowing for sure or
    being totally dense usually don't stop most posters from spouting
    their speculations as gospel truth.

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  • From randy333@aol.com@21:1/5 to presence@MUNGEpanix.com on Thu Aug 26 11:05:09 2021
    My guess would be that manufacturers would buy either 5/32" material
    or a wire gauge size about 5/32" or just over, and then grind just
    enough off to get a true straight shaft, this size then became the
    standard.

    Sort of why TGP is common in sizes like 3-15/16". Start at 4" and true
    it up.

    Randy

    On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:35:17 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

    Where do shaft sizes like 0.1545" come from? There's a few small diameter >ones like this that don't match any fraction I'be come across.



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