For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS. <http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen
in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

There are other methods, including International Tracked.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 4/21/2016 8:31 AM, Sir F.A. Rien wrote:

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS. <http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen
in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

There are other methods, including International Tracked.

Are you sure that information is current? The linked article is seven
years old.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Sarah Palin claims Bill Nye (the "Science Guy") is no more
a scientist than she is. Nye has a Bachelor of Science degree
in mechanical engineering. Palin has degree in communications
with an emphasis on journalism. Somehow, engineering seems to
be more scientific than journalism.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 16:07:55 -0700, "David E. Ross"
<nobody@nowhere.invalid> sharpened a crayon and wrote:

On 4/21/2016 8:31 AM, Sir F.A. Rien wrote:

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS.
<http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen
in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre'.

There are other methods, including International Tracked.

Are you sure that information is current? The linked article is seven
years old.

Absolutely, positively certain !!!

IF it were NOT 'current', why would the USPS have it on the site and
refer to it in 'explanation'?

I currently have a sender who, against advice, sent an 1890 postcard
REGISTERED from Germany. It arrived at the NYC ISC facility on 24th
MARCH and hasn't been scanned since.

Same with two others from the UK before I found out about this
alteration [err REDUCTION] in 'service', as well as one from Canada.

On the CANADIAN sending I got a direct response from a USPS
'representative' directing me to the 'regulation'. All that happened
in 2015, other than the current one from Germany.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message news:mbshhbpd6gub7auehps29vldi9soe94vom@4ax.com...

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS. <http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen
in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

I don't see a direct relationship between the contents of this 2009 revision
of the " Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service,
International Mail Manual (IMM®) section 752.13" and the warning "NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS."

The fact that the compensation was limited seven years ago cannot be
considered as an invitation to the (rather correctly paid) postal workers to break the law and eventually lose their jobs.

Just FYI, I received on time and in good shape many registered letter, with
or without philatelic contents, that were sent from Europe to US. AFAIK none was lost.

Victor Manta, PWO

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS.
<http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen
in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

I don't see a direct relationship between the contents of this 2009 revision >of the " Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service,
International Mail Manual (IMM®) section 752.13" and the warning "NEVER EVER >SEND REGISTERED to the USPS."

The fact that the compensation was limited seven years ago cannot be >considered as an invitation to the (rather correctly paid) postal workers to >break the law and eventually lose their jobs.

As usual, you seem to half read and leap straight into confusion:

To help you and others out, THIS is the appropriate sentence!
"Therefore, we will no longer handle inbound international
Registered Mail items in the domestic Registered Mail system."

This clearly means that ONCE into the USPS mailstream it will NOT be
tracked, it will NOT require a signature, it will NOT have any
protection from theft!

It WILL attract the crooked mail handlers to purloin the item !!!

As clearly said above, the theives are batting 80% of those European "Registered" items sent to me.

I do wish you the best in continuing to not lose items.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message news:iq1vhblnj6s5ef1ct5385kpv9eqp1ucbie@4ax.com...

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS.
http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm

As usual, you seem to half read and leap straight into confusion:

You are wrong because I read the whole IMM revision article. At the end we
will see who leapt into what.

To help you and others out, THIS is the appropriate sentence!
"Therefore, we will no longer handle inbound international
Registered Mail items in the domestic Registered Mail system."

This clearly means that ONCE into the USPS mailstream it will NOT be
tracked, it will NOT require a signature, it will NOT have any
protection from theft!

Thank you for your explanation. Let's read the next paragraph of the IMM Revision, that apparently you have overseen:

"International senders of Registered Mail items will con­tinue to receive features that distinguish this service. For example, the Postal Service will verify receipt of a Registered Mail item to the postal administration of origin. In addition, the Postal Service will obtain a signature at the time
of delivery in accordance with domestic standards governing the delivery of accountable mail. Also, senders will continue to have access to the inquiry process and may receive indemnity based on UPU limits for loss, damage, or missing contents."

Because you write, screaming in uppercase, that "... it will NOT require a signature ..." (which is in contradiction with the paragraph quoted above),
I may wonder if you ever received a registered letter from Europe through
the USPS.

So far I had to _sign_ for every registered letter that was handed over to
me by the USPS.

Victor Manta

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Very presumptive and that's only if it SHOULD IT NOT BE STOLEN!

For me the PS wording is very clear, and this means that your assertion "it >will NOT require a signature" is just wrong! It's understandable for someone >who hasn't the first hand US experience.

Well yes, "for you", but for me, having had onle ONE, that's "!", a
-=single=- overseas REGISTERED ever make it through the USPS maw, it
arrived NOT NEEDING A SIGNATURE. per the USPS posttoastie!

So, as it seems alwys when a discussion isn't to you favoe, you
invent reasons - "It's understandable for someone who hasn't the
first hand US experience."

After 75 years living in the US, I do have DAILY 'First Hand
Experience" with the USPS failures.

Knowledge or not, I understand that you or somebody else nevertheless >received the due compensation for the loss of the registered letters. Of >course one can expect better than that.

Absolutely, such as NOT losing the mail in the first place!
Such as HONEST, vetted employees.

I currently have a sender who, against advice, sent an 1890 postcard
REGISTERED from Germany. It arrived at the NYC ISC facility on 24th
MARCH and hasn't been scanned since. (your answer to Mr. Ross)

Hearsay. How do you know that it arrived at the "NYC ISC facility"? May I >remind you that it is you who wrote: "This clearly means that ONCE into the >USPS mailstream it will NOT be tracked ...".

They DO track the ENTRY, then it goes ... 'missing'. And what the
hades is "HEARSAY" about looking up the tracking number on the USPS
site? Damn if you aren't a carbon copy of Hillarity!

Hearsay about at least the registered letter sent from Canada because you >couldn't inquire personally about something that you didn't send.

Why would I SEND Registered TO MYSELF? Are you completely off your
meds? Again with the HEARSAY, when again you can look up,the
tracking numbers on the USPS site and see that they arrived INTO the
US and then disappeard NEVE to be scanned again OR DELIVERED to me!

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen in the
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

To summarize, we don't know:

No, YOU don't know because as usaal you don't read!

- how many of letters did you send personally but probably not all of them. NONE as they were SENT TO ME!

- how many were really stolen (many letters get lost differently)

AH that's possible, but ALL passing through the SAME entry point?
ALL REGISTERED?
ALL to be 'checked' by a crooked posttoastie for value?

- if the letters that eventually disappeared were lost/stolen/misdirected
"in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre" and not somewhere else >(remember what you said, no tracking available in US).

Doens't mean they weren't STOLEN elsewhere, but with ALL going
'bye-bye' from the same handling point?

Many things happen with letters but my experience tells me that your extreme >warning doesn't necessarily reflect the real situation. For what it's worth, >I got _today_ in NYC a registered letter from EU. It was sent 8 days ago. It >looks that the devil is not so black as it is said.

Lucky you!

Last but not least, since 2009 USPS does strictly what is required by the
UPU and not more, as it did previously.

Exactly, they do the MINIMUM possible!
with all the automated processes, even if it is no longer held in a
'separate bag' processing, why the bloody hell can't it be at least
SCANNED?

BTW ... Why does it now take the USPS 4-5 days to move a piece of
mail 18 miles?

Guess your statistical search missed:
<http://tinyurl.com/j4rty67>
<http://tinyurl.com/gtvpjhk>
<http://tinyurl.com/3w2w5qe>

Please do consult your health providers and seek an equinectomy as
soon as possible.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message news:i627ib9cl9g5iujjv8c1cfu2egug1sb8om@4ax.com...

<<
For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS. <http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Last but not least, since 2009 USPS does strictly what is required by the
UPU and not more, as it did previously.

Exactly, they do the MINIMUM possible!
with all the automated processes, even if it is no longer held in a
'separate bag' processing, why the bloody hell can't it be at least
SCANNED?

I suppose this happens because it is easier for USPS.

BTW ... Why does it now take the USPS 4-5 days to move a piece of
mail 18 miles?

See the explanation above.

Guess your statistical search missed: <http://tinyurl.com/j4rty67> <http://tinyurl.com/gtvpjhk> <http://tinyurl.com/3w2w5qe>

Bad guess: I found no "before 2009 - after 2009" statistics inside. Thanks anyway. It is commonplace that some postal items were and always will get
lost, as it was/is for planes and even for lovers.

Please do consult your health providers and seek an equinectomy as soon as possible.

Did you say "equinectomy"? Well, this could explain all your mail related problems.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS. ><http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm>

Last but not least, since 2009 USPS does strictly what is required by the >>> UPU and not more, as it did previously.

Exactly, they do the MINIMUM possible!
with all the automated processes, even if it is no longer held in a
'separate bag' processing, why the bloody hell can't it be at least
SCANNED?

I suppose this happens because it is easier for USPS.

Yep, besides they don't have to be -=reswponsible=- for their
employee's thefts.

BTW ... Why does it now take the USPS 4-5 days to move a piece of
mail 18 miles?

See the explanation above.

What does 'easier' have to do with taking days to deliver mail?

Bad guess: I found no "before 2009 - after 2009" statistics inside. Thanks >anyway. It is commonplace that some postal items were and always will get >lost, as it was/is for planes and even for lovers.

Yes, by posttoastie thievery!

NO .. you found MORE evidence of concentrated THEFT at the NY ISC!

BTW, we're now at 5 of 6 -=REGISTERED=- having be 'easier' to steal!
It's 5 weeks since the one from Germany entered the USPS den of
thieves. Count that one GONE.

Please do consult your health providers and seek an equinectomy as soon as >> possible.

Did you say "equinectomy"? Well, this could explain all your mail related >problems.

Quite, I agree. Definitely they are subject to that disease - as are
their staunch defenders!

So, since the USPS removes the protections you think you are
giving/getting by PAYING MORE for -=REGISTERED=- ...

NEVER, EVER, SEND REGISTERED through the USPS from overseas.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS.
http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm

As usual, you seem to half read and leap straight into confusion:

You are wrong because I read the whole IMM revision article. At the end we >will see who leapt into what.

There is no 'END' ... with this new lowering of service I have lost
FOUR, that's 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 !!! items of value. Yes they were
insured. Yes neither I nor dealer suffered more than postage loss.
However, if you count the loss of a large margin, VLH MINT GB 2d
Blue as 'nothing to worry about' ... !!!

To help you and others out, THIS is the appropriate sentence!
"Therefore, we will no longer handle inbound international
Registered Mail items in the domestic Registered Mail system."
This clearly means that ONCE into the USPS mailstream it will NOT be
tracked, it will NOT require a signature, it will NOT have any
protection from theft!

Thank you for your explanation. Let's read the next paragraph of the IMM >Revision, that apparently you have overseen:
"International senders of Registered Mail items will con­tinue to receive >features that distinguish this service. For example, the Postal Service will >verify receipt of a Registered Mail item to the postal administration of >origin.

Much noise signifyting nothig to do with the situation ONCE into the
USPS maw.

In addition, the Postal Service will obtain a signature at the time
of delivery in accordance with domestic standards governing the delivery of >accountable mail.

Very presumptive and that's only if it SHOULD IT NOT BE STOLEN!

Also, senders will continue to have access to the inquiry
process and may receive indemnity based on UPU limits for loss, damage, or >missing contents."

Such 'inquiry process' consists of some clerk sending a form to my
LOCAL POSTMISTRESS who has absolutely no knowledge of what in blazes
is happening over 2,000 miles away!

In addition, I've contacted the 'main Postmaster' [we're a
sub-postoffice] for the area. She tried, but no help there.
I've gone to the Regional Center and even to the Postal Inspectors.

IN ALL CASES, it 'dies on the vine'.

Because you write, screaming

{ROTFLMAOIS - but it did make you read!]

in uppercase, that "... it will NOT require a
signature ..." (which is in contradiction with the paragraph quoted above), {and is in agreement of what was told to me by the clerk, Postmaster

and regional center!}

I may wonder if you ever received a registered letter from Europe through
the USPS.

ONE ONLY, as said before - but again I guess you missed that too!

So far I had to _sign_ for every registered letter that was handed over to
me by the USPS.

So have I ... what's news about that?
The OPERATIVE condition is "I had to _sign_ for every registered
letter that was handed over". Mine were -=never=- 'handed over!

THAT is the point.

Since £250 is now the upper limit on ITS [which IS usually handled
properly by the toastposties, anything above that, not covered by
the seller's Private Insurance Carrier, is sent FedEx.

It's not the hassle, the lack of courtesy, the reduction in service
that galls me the most - it's the loss of a special philatelic item
wanted for my collection.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message news:luj9ibh43ll56d7i7vjgbp2bi0dmqrnn0k@4ax.com...

So, since the USPS removes the protections you think you are

giving/getting by PAYING MORE for -=REGISTERED=- ...

The part of the protection that wasn't in compliance with the UPU
regulations was removed by the USPS already 7 (seven!) years ago. The most important parts, like the signature requirement at reception and the compensation for the lost mail are in place. This justifies to pay more for registered letters.

NEVER, EVER, SEND REGISTERED through the USPS from overseas.

You can scream in uppercase as much as you want but your warning is _not_ confirmed by at least 15 (!) registered letters that were sent from overseas and were received by me in NYC in 2015 - 2016.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message news:snb4iblnoovn1eberdg5dga4c5vc5fl7i7@4ax.com...

For those who do not know;
NEVER EVER SEND REGISTERED to the USPS.
http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22259/html/updt_004.htm

In addition, the Postal Service will obtain a signature at the time
of delivery in accordance with domestic standards governing the delivery
of
accountable mail. (from regulations - vm)

Very presumptive and that's only if it SHOULD IT NOT BE STOLEN!

For me the PS wording is very clear, and this means that your assertion "it will NOT require a signature" is just wrong! It's understandable for someone who hasn't the first hand US experience.

Also, senders will continue to have access to the inquiry
process and may receive indemnity based on UPU limits for loss, damage,
or
missing contents." (from regulations - vm)

Such 'inquiry process' consists of some clerk sending a form to my
LOCAL POSTMISTRESS who has absolutely no knowledge of what in blazes
is happening over 2,000 miles away!

Knowledge or not, I understand that you or somebody else nevertheless
received the due compensation for the loss of the registered letters. Of
course one can expect better than that.

I currently have a sender who, against advice, sent an 1890 postcard
REGISTERED from Germany. It arrived at the NYC ISC facility on 24th
MARCH and hasn't been scanned since. (your answer to Mr. Ross)

Hearsay. How do you know that it arrived at the "NYC ISC facility"? May I remind you that it is you who wrote: "This clearly means that ONCE into the USPS mailstream it will NOT be tracked ...".

Same with two others from the UK before I found out about this alteration [err REDUCTION] in 'service', as well as one from Canada. (idem)

Hearsay about at least the registered letter sent from Canada because you couldn't inquire personally about something that you didn't send.

Of FIVE items sent from Europe, all but one were apparently stolen in the
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre.

To summarize, we don't know:

- how many of letters did you send personally but probably not all of them.
- how many were really stolen (many letters get lost differently)
- if the letters that eventually disappeared were lost/stolen/misdirected
"in the ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 'sorting centre" and not somewhere else
(remember what you said, no tracking available in US).

Many things happen with letters but my experience tells me that your extreme warning doesn't necessarily reflect the real situation. For what it's worth,
I got _today_ in NYC a registered letter from EU. It was sent 8 days ago. It looks that the devil is not so black as it is said.

Last but not least, since 2009 USPS does strictly what is required by the
UPU and not more, as it did previously. Only a reliable statistics that compares the situation before 2009 with that after 2009 can tell us more. Unfortunately, I couldn't find one but maybe a participant in RCSD could
help to find it.

Victor

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

So, since the USPS removes the protections you think you are

giving/getting by PAYING MORE for -=REGISTERED=- ...
The part of the protection that wasn't in compliance with the UPU
regulations was removed by the USPS already 7 (seven!) years ago. The most >important parts, like the signature requirement at reception and the >compensation for the lost mail are in place. This justifies to pay more for >registered letters.

You get MORE protection and BETTER coverage with LOWER cost ITS !!!

Furthermore, it would seem that many of the other UPU countries
didn't take the MINIMUM possible course. They also, and that's their
problem, do not advise their customers of the danger of sending
Registered through the USPS from overseas.

NONE of the senders knew that once into the USPS MAW, it would not
be protected, handled as proper REGISTERED, and became an open
invitation for THEFT.

What the USPS's MINIMUM necessary does is to remove it from the
accountable, tracked, separate handling that, -=in the past=-
guaranteed delivery.

NOW, it's a notice "Here I am , I'm VALUABLE, STEAL ME!!!"

NEVER, EVER, SEND REGISTERED through the USPS from overseas.

You can scream in uppercase as much as you want but your warning is _not_ >confirmed by at least 15 (!) registered letters that were sent from overseas >and were received by me in NYC in 2015 - 2016.

And over the same period 5 of 6 to me were STOLEN! ALL apparently in
the same NYC ISC facility!

"Screaming" is typing ALL THE TEXT OF THE WHOLE MESSAGE in caps!
A few words is emphasis, as you would RAISE your voice to make a
point!

It also helps those who fail to read correctly the first time! <G>

FWIW - I presume you'll go to the upcoming World Exhibition, if so
do have a look at the -= 1890 Penny Postage Jubilee =- exhibit.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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