• Battery Woes...

    From Flying Pig@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 18 10:43:57 2016
    Battery Woes...

    Well, Dang!

    I installed new Deka L16 batteries (4x370AH, bank 740AH in April 2014. They appear to be at the end of their lives at ~30 months in. We have been
    diligent in keeping them watered with distilled water, and have battery
    saver caps to minimize water loss.

    We charge with a Honda 2000 connected to our shore power, which feeds a
    Xantrex 70A/1500W temperature-probed inverter-charger. That has a design
    issue which makes it not float out well, so we transfer to our 40A
    stand-alone charger for the last of it.

    We monitor everything through a Trimetric battery monitor. We fully charge once a week or more often, through, also, our 370W solar feeding a Blue Sky 6024H MPPT controller, and our KISS wind generator, and equalize once a
    month (using the Honda and the Xantrex).

    When we're motoring, our alternator keeps up with it, but doesn't seem to
    have a good control/regulator; even though the output shows low net incoming amps after a long while, our cumulative AH shows positive values (20-40AH typical) which, of course, goes away the moment the engine is off, but our battery is certainly fully charged, if not equalized.

    All charge sources are fed to a single buss protected by a 500A in-line
    fuse. Our typical charge is at 25-30% discharged, so the battery doesn't
    work very hard. It has been to 45% discharged a few times, and once to 55% (Hurricane Matthew, with the KISS disabled, and not much sun in the 4 days
    we were off the boat).

    In the last few weeks, I have gotten up in the morning to ~220AH used - less than 30% discharged - and found voltage at 11.3. Not good at all - whassup? So, I've been wrestling, with no solutions or even clues.

    We've been fully charging about every 2-3 days of late, due to work we've
    been doing which requires the Honda, and yesterday I fully charged (one hour
    at 14.1V or better) and equalized (2 hours at 15.2V or better), and
    immediately read the batteries with a temperature-compensated hydrometer and also our voltmeter, at the end, while still charging, the individual battery voltages (ya, I know - they weren't disconnected).

    The 4 had divergent readings at the end of the equalization cycle: 8.0,
    7.3, 7.33 and 6.68 volts. The banks/pairs are 1/4 and 2/3, and,
    cumulatively, the banks had the same readings, but with very different
    single readings. I suppose that could be laid to the fact that I couldn't effectively disconnect them, but it's still pretty weird...

    Temperatures were very different between banks one and two (read down each water-fill hole; I've averaged the 3 readings per battery) immediately after equalization:75, 98, 100, 73F - from which I gather/intuit that bank one
    (1/4) got much less amperage, somehow, or there was some problem in bank 2.

    Specific gravities were lousy. All the cells read in about the same range
    per battery, with bank 1 faring much better than bank 2: Bank one averaged about 1.227 and bank two, temp compensated for 8-10 added, averaged 1.220 -
    but that included one cell in 2/3 - at both ends; cells 5-8 read 1.220, but
    had 1.235 and 1.260 in cells 4 and 9.

    None of them was better than fair, and many of the cells were in the edge of the "charge" range - immediately after equalizing.

    So, clearly, something is amiss.

    Beyond just bad luck, are there any ideas of how this might have occurred, given the above? And, my presumption, are these batteries toast?

    Thanks.

    L8R

    Skip

    Morgan 461 #2
    SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
    See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
    Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
    and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

    I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now.
    Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marc Auslander@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 18 13:56:29 2016
    Practical Sailor just had an article about battery control systems.
    If I understand (I don't have one) the system needs to know the AH
    capacity of the batteries. If you don't remeasure that often enought
    (yearly?) and have thus too high an estimate, the system can degrade
    the batteries by running them too flat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Cassel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 19 07:22:50 2016
    I haven't a clue but am continually amazed at the complexity of your
    boat. It strikes me that all these electrical systems will fail time and
    time again draining a bit of the fun from cruising due to you always
    needing to diagnose and then address - often at brutal expense
    whatever's failed this day.

    I went from an icebox / shore power only to a boat with shore power
    HVAC, refrigerator / freezer and hot pressure water made hot by an
    engine fired heat exchanger. The hot water after a few days at sea was incredible but I am unsure if I'd do such complexity again. Even my
    relatively simply rig was always subject to some failure or maintenance
    demand. I got tired of it very quickly.

    -paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From not given@21:1/5 to Flying Pig on Tue Dec 20 18:25:52 2016
    My experience is with highway vehicles, not boats, but your description
    sounds like a low level of corrosion in the wiring to me.

    I'm guessing that there is a layer of oxidation in several different connections that's too thin to see, but thick enough to create a slight resistance and screw up the voltages.

    I suggest that you clean ALL of your battery posts and clamps until they
    shine, whether they need it or not. Then go to the other end of the
    cables and clean them up where they mount to the electrical system.

    I'm thinking that if you go through a normal cycle of use after all of
    the connections are shiny and tight, the voltages will look better at the
    end of a charge.

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 10:43:57 -0500, Flying Pig wrote:



    We've been fully charging about every 2-3 days of late, due to work
    we've been doing which requires the Honda, and yesterday I fully charged
    (one hour at 14.1V or better) and equalized (2 hours at 15.2V or
    better), and immediately read the batteries with a
    temperature-compensated hydrometer and also our voltmeter, at the end,
    while still charging, the individual battery voltages (ya, I know - they weren't disconnected).

    The 4 had divergent readings at the end of the equalization cycle: 8.0,
    7.3, 7.33 and 6.68 volts. The banks/pairs are 1/4 and 2/3, and, cumulatively, the banks had the same readings, but with very different
    single readings. I suppose that could be laid to the fact that I
    couldn't effectively disconnect them, but it's still pretty weird...

    Temperatures were very different between banks one and two (read down
    each water-fill hole; I've averaged the 3 readings per battery)
    immediately after equalization:75, 98, 100, 73F - from which I
    gather/intuit that bank one (1/4) got much less amperage, somehow, or
    there was some problem in bank 2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)