For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “overturn
the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “overturn

the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange
rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple of hotels and golf courses.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange

rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat

orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/1/2022 11:44 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange

rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple of hotels and golf courses.

"Of course the fat orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe
for the chance to build a couple of hotels and golf courses."

Silly comment with absolutely no basis in fact. Trump may be a
scoundrel in his personal finances and business dealings but there
was absolutely *nothing* he did as POTUS that would support your
statement. He had stronger influence in keeping both Russia and
China in line over the four years he was in office.

Can't say the same for the current Oval Office occupant.
He blew it all in less than a year.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would �overturn

the election� Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump�s official website � where his public remarks are routinely published � by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump�s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange

rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple of hotels and golf courses.

I guess we're not all bad, eh Wayne?

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/republican-us-lawmakers-funnel-money-colleagues-who-crossed-trump-2022-02-01/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=The%20Reuters%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_content=2-2-22&utm_campaign=2-2-22

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would �overturn

the election� Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump�s official website � where his public remarks are routinely published � by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump�s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

How does one 'appear to explicitly state'?

And, other than you, Harry, and Mr. Robot, who gives a shit?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:> >> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Tue, 1 Feb

2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:>>>>>>>> In late January 2022,
a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would ?overturn the election? Trump lost
to Joe Biden.>>>>>>>> The statement had not appeared on Trump?s official website ? where his public remarks are routinely published ? by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.>>>>>>>> However, it was
posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump?s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.>>>>>>>> Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.>>>
My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over>>> Ukraine.>>> We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them>>> and that may be the end
of the world as we know it.>>> We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China>>> these days.>>> They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical>>> products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be>>>
next.>>> Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of>>> help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany>>> has already said they are
out.>>>> ===>>>> I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course
the fat orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple> of hotels and golf courses.> > You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were> pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they
started> moving toward East Ukraine.> The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to> go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.> I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right> to his
borders.> Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in> Cuba?> In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is> somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that> could disappear with little impact
on anything but spending money we> don't have.> I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more> weapons than any other country on the planet.My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to apossible negotiation settlement term
with Russia.Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with theirtime in force.One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not beallowed NATO membership.So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period oftime .... 10 to 15
years or so as long as Putin stops threateningan invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If hedoesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine'sNATO membership process
starts immediately.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com

I'd rather we didn't bend to that demand.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

John H <jherring@cox.net> Wrote in message:r

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:>For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:>>In late

January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would �overturn the
election� Trump lost to Joe Biden.>>The statement had not appeared on Trump�s official website � where his public remarks are routinely published � by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance. >>However, it
was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump�s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity. >>Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.How
does one 'appear to explicitly state'? And, other than you, Harry, and Mr. Robot, who gives a shit?

As little Donnie would say. Wayne is a abler and abettor to the
mischievious ways that Democrats attempt to deflect from the real
issues that fuzzy Joe ought to be focusing on.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Lg0K

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r

On 2/2/2022 9:05 AM, justan wrote:> "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>> On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:> >>

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat
to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:>>>>>>>> In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and
2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would ?overturn the election? Trump lost to Joe Biden.>>>>>>>> The statement had not appeared on Trump?s official website ? where his public remarks are routinely published ? by the morning of Jan. 31,
which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.>>>>>>>> However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump?s own website,
definitively establishing its authenticity.>>>>>>>> Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.>>> My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over>>> Ukraine.>>> We
are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them>>> and that may be the end of the world as we know it.>>> We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China>>> these days.>>> They could crush the US, simply by not selling
us a few critical>>> products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be>>> next.>>> Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of>>> help from
NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany>>> has already said they are out.>>>> ===>>>> I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy
for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple> of hotels and golf courses.> > You say that but they took Crimea on
Obama's watch. The Russians were> pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started> moving toward East Ukraine.> The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to> go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in
the East.> I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right> to his borders.> Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in> Cuba?> In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is> somewhat
ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that> could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we> don't have.> I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more> weapons than any other country on the planet.My
limited experience with legal contracts has led me to apossible negotiation settlement term with Russia.Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with theirtime in force.One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not beallowed
NATO membership.So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period oftime .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threateningan invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If hedoesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed
time frame,all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine'sNATO membership process starts immediately.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com> > I'd rather we didn't bend to that demand.I don't see it as bending.
I doubt very much that Ukraine will be admitted as a member of NATO in the next 10-15 years anyway.The surrounding NATO countries aren't "expanding". Putin reallyhas nothing to complain about.

Perhaps then, Putin would sacrafice that demand and come down
harder on something he really needs like his pipeline. No doubt
Biden would put a feather in his feeble cap as he is so prone to
do.


----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),

"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat >>>>> to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S.
President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it,
Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had >>>>> hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “overturn the election” >>>>> Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where >>>>> his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. >>>>> 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz
Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the
statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively
establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over >>>> Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany >>>> has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has
to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too
easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans
in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange rude guy would give up all of
Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.

I agree. Also, supply Ukraine with Kremlin Killers. Russia attacks
Ukraine, then when the leaders are meeting, destroy them and the building,
and also go after Putin. Time to return to the Middle Ages in
one way. Make the leaders responsible, not just some poor peon.
Trump, May be corrupt, but as President, I saw him looking out for America,
not himself. Look at the inflation now, the having to import oil, the
amount of ships anchored off the coast, not being unloaded. All Biden and company. While Nancy is spending all her time and the House on witch
hunts, we are being screwed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 07:12:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),

"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over >>>> Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany >>>> has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat

orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.

NATO is just a cold war relic that has far outlived it's usefulness.
It was to combat the Warsaw Pact that dissolved over 30 years ago.
It was just a front for the US the whole time anyway with half hearted
support from the countries we were pledged to protect.
These days the Europeans are more likely go into business with the
Russians than to go to war with them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:58:18 -0500 (EST), justan <me@here.com> wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r

On 2/2/2022 9:05 AM, justan wrote:> "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>> On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),> "waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:> >

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat

to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:>>>>>>>> In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and
2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would ?overturn the election? Trump lost to Joe Biden.>>>>>>>> The statement had not appeared on Trump?s official website ? where his public remarks are routinely published ? by the

morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.>>>>>>>> However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to

Trump?s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.>>>>>>>> Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.>>> My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war
over>>> Ukraine.>>> We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them>>> and that may be the end of the world as we know it.>>> We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China>>> these days.>>> They could crush the US,
simply by not selling us a few critical>>> products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be>>> next.>>> Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I

wouldn't count on a lot of>>> help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany>>> has already said they are out.>>>> ===>>>> I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything

short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple> of hotels and golf
courses.> > You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were> pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started> moving toward East Ukraine.> The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to> go
with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.> I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right> to his borders.> Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in> Cuba?> In this case NATO is the

US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is> somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that> could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we> don't have.> I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export

more> weapons than any other country on the planet.My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to apossible negotiation settlement term with Russia.Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with theirtime in force.One of Putin's key
concerns and demands is that Ukraine not beallowed NATO membership.So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period oftime .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threateningan invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If
hedoesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine'sNATO membership process starts immediately.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com> >

I'd rather we didn't bend to that demand.I don't see it as bending. I doubt very much that Ukraine will be admitted as a member of NATO in the next 10-15 years anyway.The surrounding NATO countries aren't "expanding". Putin reallyhas nothing to

complain about.

Perhaps then, Putin would sacrafice that demand and come down
harder on something he really needs like his pipeline. No doubt
Biden would put a feather in his feeble cap as he is so prone to
do.

Biden already lifted the Trump era sanction on Russia that was gumming
up the northern pipeline. There was pressure to do it from Germany
that likes the idea of having that pipe in their patch.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/2/2022 9:44 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 07:12:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),

"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a >>>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over >>>>> Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in >>>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany >>>>> has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat

orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a

couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.

NATO is just a cold war relic that has far outlived it's usefulness.
It was to combat the Warsaw Pact that dissolved over 30 years ago.
It was just a front for the US the whole time anyway with half hearted support from the countries we were pledged to protect.
These days the Europeans are more likely go into business with the
Russians than to go to war with them.

It may be a cold war relic to us but I suspect it's important to
the former Soviet satellite nations that are now
NATO members.

An argument can be made that what happens in Europe is none of
our business or concern but history says that usually doesn't
work out well for us.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mr. Luddite <nothere@noland.com> wrote:

On 2/2/2022 9:44 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 07:12:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),

"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a
threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this: >>>>>>>
In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S.
President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, >>>>>>> Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he >>>>>>> had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “overturn the
election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where >>>>>>> his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. >>>>>>> 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance. >>>>>>>
However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz
Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the >>>>>>> statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively >>>>>>> establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a >>>>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over >>>>>> Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them >>>>>> and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in >>>>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of >>>>>> help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany >>>>>> has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony
has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make >>>>> it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the >>>>> Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange rude guy would give
up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a

couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.

NATO is just a cold war relic that has far outlived it's usefulness.
It was to combat the Warsaw Pact that dissolved over 30 years ago.
It was just a front for the US the whole time anyway with half hearted
support from the countries we were pledged to protect.
These days the Europeans are more likely go into business with the
Russians than to go to war with them.

It may be a cold war relic to us but I suspect it's important to
the former Soviet satellite nations that are now
NATO members.

An argument can be made that what happens in Europe is none of
our business or concern but history says that usually doesn't
work out well for us.

We need to be concerned about Europe, but don’t need to be the policeman.
We have paid for most of their defense since 1945. When do we stop?
Just like Clinton going to war in the Balkans. Was not our place to do
that! Now, Biden, seems to be sad we are not at war since Trump arranged
to finally get us out of the Middle East debacles. Now he wants us
involved in a Russian-Ukraine debacle. We should fire all the legislators
as quick,as,we possibly can and put in people who will look after our interests, not spending Trillions buying votes, and most of their time on
witch hunts.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 06:40:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

On 2/2/2022 9:44 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 07:12:47 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

On 2/2/2022 2:09 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),

"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would “

overturn the election” Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump’s official website — where his public remarks are routinely published — by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump’s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a >>>>>> war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over >>>>>> Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them >>>>>> and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in >>>>>> the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of >>>>>> help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany >>>>>> has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat

orange rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a >> couple

of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

My limited experience with legal contracts has led me to a
possible negotiation settlement term with Russia.

Most contracts have a time limit or period associated with their
time in force.

One of Putin's key concerns and demands is that Ukraine not be
allowed NATO membership.

So, agree to not having Ukraine join NATO for some period of
time .... 10 to 15 years or so as long as Putin stops threatening
an invasion and withdraws his troops from the border. If he
doesn't ... or tries this again during the agreed time frame,
all bets are off ... the "contract" is breached and Ukraine's
NATO membership process starts immediately.

NATO is just a cold war relic that has far outlived it's usefulness.
It was to combat the Warsaw Pact that dissolved over 30 years ago.
It was just a front for the US the whole time anyway with half hearted
support from the countries we were pledged to protect.
These days the Europeans are more likely go into business with the
Russians than to go to war with them.

It may be a cold war relic to us but I suspect it's important to
the former Soviet satellite nations that are now
NATO members.

An argument can be made that what happens in Europe is none of
our business or concern but history says that usually doesn't
work out well for us.

We need to accept the reality that the US is not the industrial
powerhouse it was in 1940 and we can't tell the world what to do.
We would have trouble even supplying our own needs in a global
conflict and we are certainly not in a position to prop up Europe.
At this point we really should be trying to fix our problems, not go
looking for a fight with Russia. I suspect about 2 days into a Russian
proxy war, we would also be fighting China because they took Taiwan
and asking what we were capable of doing about it.
I said earlier, they could crush us, simply by stopping the ships from
leaving their ports for here. An authoritarian government like theirs
can contain the misery better than we can.

In the mean time we have plenty of problems here that we are not
addressing like the looting of trains in LA, the burning of our cities
by real rioters (not the rabble at the Capitol) and a murder rate that
is worse than many 3d world countries. The debt just topped $30
Trillion with no hope of even reducing the rate of increase, much less
actually reducing it. We print money like Weimar Germans and wonder
why inflation is rampant.
One more thing to think about. If interest rates rose to Carter era
levels (11-12%), interest on the debt alone would eat every penny of
revenue.
I suppose if you have no money and you live paycheck to paycheck it
isn't an issue until the whole system collapses but some of us are
living on a fixed income.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2022 02:09:11 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:44:32 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 7:07:47 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:40:41 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

For all of you Trump fans out there who doubt that Trump is a threat to democracy and our constitution, or don't care, ponder this:

In late January 2022, a statement, attributed to former U.S. President Donald Trump, was shared widely on social media. In it, Trump appeared to explicitly state that back in 2020 and 2021, he had hoped his vice president, Mike Pence, would �

overturn the election� Trump lost to Joe Biden.

The statement had not appeared on Trump�s official website � where his public remarks are routinely published � by the morning of Jan. 31, which cast reasonable doubt on its authenticity and provenance.

However, it was posted to Twitter by Trump spokesperson Liz Harrington, a strong sign it was genuine, and later on Jan. 31, the statement was finally posted to Trump�s own website, definitively establishing its authenticity.

Excerpted from Snopes fact checker.

My biggest fear for the republic isn't a fat orange rude guy, it is a
war monger sparring with the Russians and setting us up for a war over
Ukraine.
We are going to lose a war with Russia or China unless we nuke them
and that may be the end of the world as we know it.
We are not the industrial giant that beat the axis. That is China
these days.
They could crush the US, simply by not selling us a few critical
products. Chips are already an issue. Steel and aluminum might be
next.
Russia hasn't lost a "home game" until you go back to Genghis Khan in
the 12th century. That is a loser too. I wouldn't count on a lot of
help from NATO either. They get their gas and oil from Russia. Germany
has already said they are out.

===

I don't disagree with any of that but Russian and Chinese hegemony has to be resisted with everything short of nuclear war. If we make it too easy for them, there will be others soon after, just like the Germans in the 1930s. Of course the fat orange

rude guy would give up all of Eastern Europe for the chance to build a couple >of hotels and golf courses.

You say that but they took Crimea on Obama's watch. The Russians were
pretty quiet with Trump in there. As soon as he left they started
moving toward East Ukraine.
The reality is, if they just had a referendum, the east might vote to
go with the Russians. There is no love for Kiev in the East.
I also think Putin might have a case with the expansion of NATO right
to his borders.
Remember how our panties got in a knot when Russia set up camp in
Cuba?
In this case NATO is the US and maybe UK but the rest of Europe is
somewhat ambivalent about it. I think it is a cold war relic that
could disappear with little impact on anything but spending money we
don't have.
I will agree that it is a hell of a jobs program. We export more
weapons than any other country on the planet.

Yes, I'm sure taking Putin's side is where you're at.

Obama�s response to Russia�s invasion of Crimea in March 2014, and
Moscow�s subsequent support of pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine
was economic sanctions.

As a candidate, Donald Trump suggested he would recognize the
annexation.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)