About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/
You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains some interesting details about California laws that apparently give you
special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/
You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains some
interesting details about California laws that apparently give you
special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks
are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
Roger Merriman
On 2/16/2024 3:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:09:15 AM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto
traffic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/
You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post.
It contains some
interesting details about California laws that apparently
give you
special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
--
- Frank Krygowski
I have covered that well before. Traffic engineers rather
than having a manual from which to work, simply do
anything that they think is a good idea.
Actually, it's gotten worse than that. For a long time, the
design manuals for bike facilities warned of dangers
regarding weird infrastructure. For example, I own several
editions of the AASHTO design manual for bike facilities. It
listed about a dozen detriments of segregated bike paths at
the edge of roadways. These were problems that were obvious
to the engineers compiling the manual - things like
motorists not noticing cyclists off to the side and
colliding when cutting across their path. Or ignorant
bicyclists turning left from a right edge facility. Or
wrong-way cyclists zooming unexpectedly into intersections.
The manual didn't absolutely forbid such designs, but it
cautioned heavily against them.
That didn't sit well with the "paint & path" crowd, the
advocates who think there's no such thing as a bad bike
facility. So first, they formed their own organization,
NACTO, and put out their own quasi manual. Rather than a
design manual, it was an exhaustive collection of every
weird idea conceived anywhere. It was intended as
inspiration. There was almost no actual design information,
such as dimensions necessary for safe use by bicyclists.
The next stage, still pretty new, was taking over AASHTO.
"Paint & path" folks got themselves onto AASHTO's
committees, and modified the manual to permit all their
weird ideas. The manuals now encourage "do anything you
think is a good idea."
So bi-directional on-road bike lanes that have increased
car-bike crashes by factors of ten or more? Check! Great idea!
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks
are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
On 2/16/2024 10:45 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the >> barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks
are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
One of the major reasons for the protected bike lanes is, ironically,
pointed out in Zach Kaplan's post: "...possible wheel, rim, and
suspension damage for any motorists that have a lapse of attention and
drift over them." Well yes, the idea is that motorists should not be "drifting" over them whether it's because of a lapse of attention or whatever.
Without those separators motorist routinely drift into onto the shoulder
or painted bike lane, or decide to park there to take a call, make a delivery, do drop-offs or pick-ups, etc.
One incident of some idiot motorist damaging a piece of infrastructure
is not a reason to proclaim that it's just terrible (well unless you're
"he who must not be named").
Another advantage of the separated bike lanes is that motorists drive
slower and are forced to pay attention.
On 2/16/2024 4:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/16/2024 3:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/16/2024 3:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:09:15?AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>> About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/ >>>>>
You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains
some
interesting details about California laws that apparently give you
special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
--
- Frank Krygowski
I have covered that well before. Traffic engineers rather than having
a manual from which to work, simply do anything that they think is a
good idea.
Actually, it's gotten worse than that. For a long time, the design
manuals for bike facilities warned of dangers regarding weird
infrastructure. For example, I own several editions of the AASHTO
design manual for bike facilities. It listed about a dozen detriments
of segregated bike paths at the edge of roadways. These were problems
that were obvious to the engineers compiling the manual - things like
motorists not noticing cyclists off to the side and colliding when
cutting across their path. Or ignorant bicyclists turning left from a
right edge facility. Or wrong-way cyclists zooming unexpectedly into
intersections. The manual didn't absolutely forbid such designs, but
it cautioned heavily against them.
That didn't sit well with the "paint & path" crowd, the advocates who
think there's no such thing as a bad bike facility. So first, they
formed their own organization, NACTO, and put out their own quasi
manual. Rather than a design manual, it was an exhaustive collection
of every weird idea conceived anywhere. It was intended as
inspiration. There was almost no actual design information, such as
dimensions necessary for safe use by bicyclists.
The next stage, still pretty new, was taking over AASHTO. "Paint &
path" folks got themselves onto AASHTO's committees, and modified the
manual to permit all their weird ideas. The manuals now encourage "do
anything you think is a good idea."
So bi-directional on-road bike lanes that have increased car-bike
crashes by factors of ten or more? Check! Great idea!
Yes I have some familiarity with that and you are right.
Yet, you generally favor a nation with 'rule by experts' despite glaring
disasters as above and examples large and small besides.
Should bike facilities be designed by experts? Or should every park
system, township, village, city and state invent its own crazy ideas?
Yes, the purported "experts" can be political hacks with agendas, as in
the rewrite of the bikeway design manuals. But there are limits to their >errors; and at least ideally, there are mechanisms for correcting those >errors. If enough evidence accumulates that (say) bi-directional
on-street bike lanes are dangerous, some edition of the manual will >eventually recommend against them.
Meanwhile, overconfident and ignorant folks actually argue in favor of
wrong way riding, for collision hazards like posts in the middle of bike >lanes, and for other craziness. Putting them in charge of facility
design is worse.
Typical regulation and government is imperfect. But I think anarchy
usually produces much worse results.
On 2/16/2024 1:56 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
It's terrible. Of course it's not actually true, like most "news" in the >Washington Examiner or New York Post.
No credit cards are being given out. It's debit cards that can be used
for food and baby supplies. They will replace the food boxes that are >currently being supplied to those in need and will save an estimated
$7.2 million annually.
Too many people that lack critical thinking skills will believe social
media posts or stories in right-wing media outlets, without doing any
fact checking.
On 2/16/2024 1:56 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
It's terrible. Of course it's not actually true, like most "news" in the Washington Examiner or New York Post.
No credit cards are being given out. It's debit cards that can be used
for food and baby supplies. They will replace the food boxes that are currently being supplied to those in need and will save an estimated
$7.2 million annually.
Too many people that lack critical thinking skills will believe social
media posts or stories in right-wing media outlets, without doing any
fact checking.
Remember "Obama-phones." Started under President Reagan, for landline
phones, then expanded to mobile phones under George W. Bush, you now
have Republicans screaming about subsidizing lifeline service for
low-income people, and trying to blame Obama for something he didn't start.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 20:48:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski+1 to that!
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/16/2024 4:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/16/2024 3:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/16/2024 3:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 9:09:15?AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>> About the purported benefits of "protection" from auto traffic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/897754635015080/posts/960457842078092/ >>>>>>
You shouldn't need to be a Facebooker to read the post. It contains >>>>>> some
interesting details about California laws that apparently give you >>>>>> special legal rights to avoid the worst of the "innovation."
--
- Frank Krygowski
I have covered that well before. Traffic engineers rather than having >>>>> a manual from which to work, simply do anything that they think is a >>>>> good idea.
Actually, it's gotten worse than that. For a long time, the design
manuals for bike facilities warned of dangers regarding weird
infrastructure. For example, I own several editions of the AASHTO
design manual for bike facilities. It listed about a dozen detriments
of segregated bike paths at the edge of roadways. These were problems
that were obvious to the engineers compiling the manual - things like
motorists not noticing cyclists off to the side and colliding when
cutting across their path. Or ignorant bicyclists turning left from a
right edge facility. Or wrong-way cyclists zooming unexpectedly into
intersections. The manual didn't absolutely forbid such designs, but
it cautioned heavily against them.
That didn't sit well with the "paint & path" crowd, the advocates who
think there's no such thing as a bad bike facility. So first, they
formed their own organization, NACTO, and put out their own quasi
manual. Rather than a design manual, it was an exhaustive collection
of every weird idea conceived anywhere. It was intended as
inspiration. There was almost no actual design information, such as
dimensions necessary for safe use by bicyclists.
The next stage, still pretty new, was taking over AASHTO. "Paint &
path" folks got themselves onto AASHTO's committees, and modified the
manual to permit all their weird ideas. The manuals now encourage "do
anything you think is a good idea."
So bi-directional on-road bike lanes that have increased car-bike
crashes by factors of ten or more? Check! Great idea!
Yes I have some familiarity with that and you are right.
Yet, you generally favor a nation with 'rule by experts' despite glaring >>> disasters as above and examples large and small besides.
Should bike facilities be designed by experts? Or should every park
system, township, village, city and state invent its own crazy ideas?
Yes, the purported "experts" can be political hacks with agendas, as in
the rewrite of the bikeway design manuals. But there are limits to their
errors; and at least ideally, there are mechanisms for correcting those
errors. If enough evidence accumulates that (say) bi-directional
on-street bike lanes are dangerous, some edition of the manual will
eventually recommend against them.
Meanwhile, overconfident and ignorant folks actually argue in favor of
wrong way riding, for collision hazards like posts in the middle of bike
lanes, and for other craziness. Putting them in charge of facility
design is worse.
Typical regulation and government is imperfect. But I think anarchy
usually produces much worse results.
When local governments fail, a higher level government will rush in to
make everything worse.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.”
- Ronald Reagan
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 2/16/2024 10:45 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the >>> barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks >>> are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
One of the major reasons for the protected bike lanes is, ironically,
pointed out in Zach Kaplan's post: "...possible wheel, rim, and
suspension damage for any motorists that have a lapse of attention and
drift over them." Well yes, the idea is that motorists should not be
"drifting" over them whether it's because of a lapse of attention or
whatever.
Without those separators motorist routinely drift into onto the shoulder
or painted bike lane, or decide to park there to take a call, make a
delivery, do drop-offs or pick-ups, etc.
Indeed it’s also a much like Frank a Vehicular cycling group, this said the argument for wider lanes so cargo bikes etc can use them is a valid one.
Can’t say I noticed that in the various ones locally with some they have lost a lane but in those cases that’s central london and frankly you can walk quicker at times!
One incident of some idiot motorist damaging a piece of infrastructure
is not a reason to proclaim that it's just terrible (well unless you're
"he who must not be named").
Another advantage of the separated bike lanes is that motorists drive
slower and are forced to pay attention.
But even out here can’t say I notice a slower pace more that they don’t drift across to use the cycle lane to get in position for the junction
ahead, as it has bolted hard rubber?
https://www.zicla.com/en/zebra-family/
Though I’ve only seen them installed end on rather that diagonal as shown!
Roger Merriman
On 2/16/2024 10:49 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 2/16/2024 10:45 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the >>>> barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks >>>> are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
One of the major reasons for the protected bike lanes is, ironically,
pointed out in Zach Kaplan's post: "...possible wheel, rim, and
suspension damage for any motorists that have a lapse of attention and
drift over them." Well yes, the idea is that motorists should not be
"drifting" over them whether it's because of a lapse of attention or
whatever.
Without those separators motorist routinely drift into onto the shoulder >>> or painted bike lane, or decide to park there to take a call, make a
delivery, do drop-offs or pick-ups, etc.
Indeed it’s also a much like Frank a Vehicular cycling group, this said the
argument for wider lanes so cargo bikes etc can use them is a valid one.
Can’t say I noticed that in the various ones locally with some they have >> lost a lane but in those cases that’s central london and frankly you can >> walk quicker at times!
One incident of some idiot motorist damaging a piece of infrastructure
is not a reason to proclaim that it's just terrible (well unless you're
"he who must not be named").
Another advantage of the separated bike lanes is that motorists drive
slower and are forced to pay attention.
But even out here can’t say I notice a slower pace more that they don’t >> drift across to use the cycle lane to get in position for the junction
ahead, as it has bolted hard rubber?
https://www.zicla.com/en/zebra-family/
Though I’ve only seen them installed end on rather that diagonal as shown! >>
Roger Merriman
Antipersonnel device against cyclists. Just more
overthinking overspending and impedimenta.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 18:33:54 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 2/16/2024 1:56 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
It's terrible. Of course it's not actually true, like most "news" in the
Washington Examiner or New York Post.
No credit cards are being given out. It's debit cards that can be used
for food and baby supplies. They will replace the food boxes that are
currently being supplied to those in need and will save an estimated
$7.2 million annually.
Too many people that lack critical thinking skills will believe social
media posts or stories in right-wing media outlets, without doing any
fact checking.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-cia-asked-foreign-agencies-to-illegally-spy-on-trump-associates-report/vi-BB1igvTs
On 2/17/2024 6:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 2/16/2024 9:33 PM, sms wrote:
On 2/16/2024 1:56 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely
you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get
across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
It's terrible. Of course it's not actually true, like
most "news" in the Washington Examiner or New York Post.
No credit cards are being given out. It's debit cards
that can be used for food and baby supplies. They will
replace the food boxes that are currently being supplied
to those in need and will save an estimated $7.2 million
annually.
Too many people that lack critical thinking skills will
believe social media posts or stories in right-wing media
outlets, without doing any fact checking.
Right, like the free new cars allegedly being given to
illegal immigrants
I wonder how many of those rumors are started by Russian
troll farms.
On 2/16/2024 9:13 PM, sms wrote:
On 2/16/2024 10:45 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Isn’t that mainly a behaviour ie drivers shouldn’t be driving over the >>> barriers, or leaving bins etc on the road blocking the cyclelane.
Change is always a surprise and takes time for people to get used to
Plus maintenance ie roads should be cleaned/damage repaired, which folks >>> are paying for the service so if your not getting it?
One of the major reasons for the protected bike lanes is, ironically,
pointed out in Zach Kaplan's post: "...possible wheel, rim, and
suspension damage for any motorists that have a lapse of attention and
drift over them." Well yes, the idea is that motorists should not be
"drifting" over them whether it's because of a lapse of attention or
whatever.
Without those separators motorist routinely drift into onto the shoulder
or painted bike lane, or decide to park there to take a call, make a
delivery, do drop-offs or pick-ups, etc.
When there is no bike lane stripe or barrier, the total width of asphalt
is the same, but the _clean_ width is greater. Motorists do occasionally drive over the rightmost part of the pavement when there are no cyclists there. The motorists' tires and moving air tend to kick debris off the
road. Cyclists should give thanks for a service they provide for free.
With a paint stripe, the debris layer begins maybe 6" to 12" to the
right of the stripe. With concrete barriers, it begins immediately at
the barrier. That's unless the jurisdiction spent money for equipment
and manpower to keep things swept, which is very rare IME.
On 2/17/2024 10:11 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/17/2024 6:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 2/16/2024 9:33 PM, sms wrote:
On 2/16/2024 1:56 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Government services for the actual taxpayers? Surely
you jest!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2835683/nyc-plans-to-give-pre-paid-credit-cards-to-migrants-to-tune-of-53-million/
No wonder the borders are full of folks trying to get
across. -) Free
money, dinner in the big hotels...
It's terrible. Of course it's not actually true, like
most "news" in the Washington Examiner or New York Post.
No credit cards are being given out. It's debit cards
that can be used for food and baby supplies. They will
replace the food boxes that are currently being supplied
to those in need and will save an estimated $7.2 million
annually.
Too many people that lack critical thinking skills will
believe social media posts or stories in right-wing media
outlets, without doing any fact checking.
Right, like the free new cars allegedly being given to
illegal immigrants
I wonder how many of those rumors are started by Russian
troll farms.
I for one had not heard nor read that.
The long list of outrages is enough without writing fiction.
On 2/17/2024 12:35 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
This is all true but in my experience the debris comes from motorists, the >> old cycleway which is some distance from the road bar one flyover where it >> gets a light coating in glass/plastic and sand!
When there is no bike lane stripe or barrier, the total width of asphalt >>> is the same, but the _clean_ width is greater. Motorists do occasionally >>> drive over the rightmost part of the pavement when there are no cyclists >>> there. The motorists' tires and moving air tend to kick debris off the
road. Cyclists should give thanks for a service they provide for free.
With a paint stripe, the debris layer begins maybe 6" to 12" to the
right of the stripe. With concrete barriers, it begins immediately at
the barrier. That's unless the jurisdiction spent money for equipment
and manpower to keep things swept, which is very rare IME.
But rest of it stays fairly clean only needing really vegetation cut back, >> or leaves swept away which seems to happen maybe twice a year?
Correct, most (not all) obstructions and debris have to do with
motoring, so paths well separated from roadways have much less. But IME
those well separated paths are much more seldom installed, probably
because of land acquisition problems and costs. And if they are still
closely parallel to the roadway, they cause problems at intersections,
where cyclists will be crossing side streets in surprising locations
where turning motorists are accelerating away from their turns.
The segregation demands I hear are almost always for bike lanes that use
the original roadway pavement, but are "protected" by at the very least, paint stripes. The loudest cries are for posts and/or concrete. That
sort of facility does fall victim to road debris.
Right, like the free new cars allegedly being given to illegal immigrants
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows
is often not the same thing.
On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows
is often not the same thing.
<snip>
True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from right-wing >publications like The Washington Examiner, Washington Times, New York
Post, and the Epoch times.
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
On 2/17/2024 6:20 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
As with most things you have to plan these things out which include
maintenance and cleaning. Or your setting yourself up to fail.
Yes. It would be a bit better if they would plan and budget for
maintenance.
On 2/17/2024 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/17/2024 10:11 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I wonder how many of those rumors are started by Russian
troll farms.
I for one had not heard nor read that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
On 2/17/2024 3:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
<snip>
Right, like the free new cars allegedly being given to
illegal immigrants
Donald Trump said that Democrats want to give illegal
immigrants cars. This was on October 18th 2018 in Mesa
Arizona. He did not say that they were necessarily new cars,
but he did ask if the cars would be Rolls Royces.
Trump says a lot of stupid things, and unfortunately some of
his minions believe him.
On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more
and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the
average guy knows
is often not the same thing.
<snip>
True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from
right-wing publications like The Washington Examiner,
Washington Times, New York Post, and the Epoch times.
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain
that you're not getting the whole story and it's a good idea
to run it through a fact checker, at least if you actually
care to know the truth.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows
is often not the same thing.
<snip>
True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from right-wing
publications like The Washington Examiner, Washington Times, New York
Post, and the Epoch times.
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 3:55:38 AM UTC-5, floriduh dumbass wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
<snip>
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows >>>> is often not the same thing.
<snip>
True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from right-wing
publications like The Washington Examiner, Washington Times, New York
Post, and the Epoch times.
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
On 2/18/2024 5:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/17/2024 6:20 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
As with most things you have to plan these things out which include
maintenance and cleaning. Or your setting yourself up to fail.
Yes. It would be a bit better if they would plan and budget for
maintenance.
Since cycle infrastructure tends to be urban roads so do tend to get
regular cleaning both the road way and pavement, and if not? Why not?
Roads in our area seem to get swept twice per year. That's enough for
motor vehicle passage, since car tires are not harmed by (say) 1/4" bits
of broken glass. It's not enough for bike facilities.
On 2/18/2024 2:55 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 2/16/2024 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
Yes, you may "know" this and I may "know" this, but, more and more,
largely through the advent of the Internet, what the average guy knows >>>> is often not the same thing.
<snip>
True. Sadly, too many people believe the fake news from right-wing
publications like The Washington Examiner, Washington Times, New York
Post, and the Epoch times.
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're
not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a
fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
Exactly.
The Administrative State within our US government is more a
threat to the nation than all the Russians together:
https://nypost.com/2024/02/13/news/cia-and-foreign-intelligence-agencies-illegally-targeted-26-trump-associates-before-2016-russia-collusion-claims-report/
On 2/18/2024 12:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2024 5:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:If true that’s quite significantly less than london or even surrounding
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Since cycle infrastructure tends to be urban roads so do tend to get
regular cleaning both the road way and pavement, and if not? Why not?
Roads in our area seem to get swept twice per year. That's enough for
motor vehicle passage, since car tires are not harmed by (say) 1/4" bits >>> of broken glass. It's not enough for bike facilities.
areas sweep/litter pick etc which is at least monthly.
...
Even Tom’s hell hole gets regularly street cleaning would seem!
I don't know about the street sweeping schedule where Tom lives.
Actually, it would be interesting to hear from several people in
different areas. Ours happens mid- to late spring, apparently to get the gravel off the road. (A couple years ago my wife had a low speed fall on
an early spring city ride. From a stop sign, she started into a right
turn but slipped out on a small pile of gravel.)
... this seems to be a Youngstown or perhaps rust belt thing?
I’m aware that American city can get more dilapidated due to well political
choices.
I'd say it's a financial choice, and for roads, a fairly logical one.
I've heard many motorist complaints about potholes, but I've never heard
a motorist complain about gravel or other debris on roads. If one more city-wide street sweeping means 500 fewer potholes repaired, the
sweeping won't get done.
It makes sense to an elected official or to a city administrator to take
care of the biggest groups of people that generate the most reasonable complaints. Bicyclists are not at that top of that list.
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not just for them.
Roger Merriman
On 2/18/2024 5:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
<snip>
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
There are actually people that believe these things. It's hard to fathom.
I'm currently listening to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
audiobook. The things that the disaffected class in Germany believed are >startlingly similar to the things that Trump voters believe.
Facts don't
matter. They believe publications that play on their fears.
On 2/18/2024 11:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2024 7:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:
Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're >>>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a >>>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants
open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal
immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a
running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
uh, you conflated actual policy positions with pure idiotic fantasy there.
But the idiotic fantasies got tons of publicity and doubtlessly
generated millions of votes for Trump. It also generated an armed
assault on a pizza parlor. >https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-edgar-maddison-welch-sentenced-four-years-prison-n775621
It might be helpful if those on the right who were more logical would
call out such nonsense. Please don't pretend it has no consequences.
On 2/18/2024 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Steven, wake up. It was NOT a myth that California taxpayers were
paying for cars for illegal aliens. How the hell can you not know that
when my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS got new cars! These people are washing
dishes in restaurants! How do they get a new Ford and Honda SUV?
Did you ask them? Seems easy enough, if you can be temporarily civil.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:03:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2024 11:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2024 7:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:But the idiotic fantasies got tons of publicity and doubtlessly
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:26:21 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:
Do you mean like the Trump_Russia_Piss_recordings?"
Anytime a story seems far-fetched you can be pretty certain that you're >>>>>> not getting the whole story and it's a good idea to run it through a >>>>>> fact checker, at least if you actually care to know the truth.
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants
open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal
immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a
running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
uh, you conflated actual policy positions with pure idiotic fantasy there. >>
generated millions of votes for Trump. It also generated an armed
assault on a pizza parlor.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-edgar-maddison-welch-sentenced-four-years-prison-n775621
It might be helpful if those on the right who were more logical would
call out such nonsense. Please don't pretend it has no consequences.
It would have been "helpful" if those on the left would have called
out the leftist media lies, like the Russia_Trump_piss_recording lies.
Well, actually they couldn't because they believed it all was true.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010
The fact-checking site Snopes told BBC Trending radio that in the past
week, for example, they have debunked many more anti-Republican party
stories than pro-Republican ones.
https://amac.us/newsline/society/fake-news-liberal-medias-worst-lies-of-the-2022-elections/
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/10/20/america_is_drowning_in_the_lies_of_the_left_144494.html#!
https://www.westernjournal.com/5-left-wing-lies-twitter-refuses-fact-check/
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/top-10-lies-liberal-media-michael-goodwin
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 16:26:48 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 2/18/2024 5:35 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
<snip>
Yup, that, and democrats are trying to take your guns, biden wants open borders, the government is giving free cars to illegal immigrants, there's a pizza place in washing DC where deocrats a running a child sex slve ring....the list goes on.
There are actually people that believe these things. It's hard to fathom.
I'm currently listening to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
audiobook. The things that the disaffected class in Germany believed are
startlingly similar to the things that Trump voters believe.
... for instance?
Facts don't
matter. They believe publications that play on their fears.
<chuckle> I wonder what publications this guy reads to get information
about what Trump voters believe.
https://news.yahoo.com/democrat-says-trump-hand-keys-183304843.html
On 2/18/2024 1:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2024 12:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Steven, wake up. It was NOT a myth that California taxpayers were
paying for cars for illegal aliens. How the hell can you not know
that when my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS got new cars! These people are
washing dishes in restaurants! How do they get a new Ford and Honda SUV?
Did you ask them? Seems easy enough, if you can be temporarily civil.
That's a pretty big "if"
On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not >> just for them.
Roger Merriman
"He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not >>> just for them.
Roger Merriman
"He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.
Roger Merriman
On 2/19/2024 4:18 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 2/18/2024 2:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
<snip>
Yes London has some mini sweeper vans they can use on the segregated
cycleways but I’ve seen them cleaned pavements etc as well so clearly not
just for them.
Roger Merriman
"He who must not be named" saw a protected bicycle lane that had debris
in it and automatically extrapolated that instance to all protected
bicycle lanes. It suited his purpose to do that.
I’m unconvinced that even in Youngstown street cleaning is so lax debris >> and rubbish would build up fairly quickly, clog drainage and so on.
I don't know what you mean by "quickly." But it's not normally rubbish,
as in things tossed out of cars, etc. It is normally debris, such as
gravel, some broken glass, leaves in autumn, branches and sticks from
trees, etc. And it doesn't have to accumulate quickly when it's roughly
six months between sweepings.
I'm sorry you remain unconvinced. Want some photos? (Some are very old,
shot with a low-res camera.)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103443110/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849733/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5103442512/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/5102849187/in/dateposted-public/
How many photos would you like?
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