I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly >abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit >directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly >abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit >directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly
abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit
directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil" <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637> claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018" <https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:way over the life expectancy here. Malnutrition and untreated chronic
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident. >>Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly >>abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit >>directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil" ><https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637> >claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an >incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
80's tripped or slipped, probably the > 70's too. That's
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018" ><https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 1:11:32?PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:19:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:way over the life expectancy here. Malnutrition and untreated chronic
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly
abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit
directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil"
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637> >> >claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an
incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
80's tripped or slipped, probably the > 70's too. That's
diseases do not improve coordination. Also the pavements and streets
are full of potholes and trash.
20-29 year olds TBI mostly from drunken brawls, driving
without a seat belt at high speeds, assaults, motorcycles without a
helmet, deliberate murder etc.
I doubt many were bicycle related. None of the many I saw
were...
//
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018"
<https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
Rates were highest among adult males and children and adolescents aged
10-14 years.
//
When "showing how fast I can go" and "look, I'm riding on one
wheel" is more important than safety..
I'm sure Darwin played a hand there.
//
In 2018, 857 adult bicyclists died from traffic-related crashes in the
United States, the highest number in two decades. This discrepancy
might indicate that bicycle safety interventions have had some effect
on reducing some bicycle-related TBIs among adults, but more
comprehensive strategies are needed to protect cyclists from death and
the most severe types of injuries.
//
LOL. The number of TBI declined, but the overall number of
deaths INCREASED during the studied period. They should have looked
into why. I wonder how many of those accidents were caused by drivers
texting?
------------
I might fall off my bike and hit my head. More likely I'll
just break a bone in my limbs(again). Or completely tear the ruptured
ligament in my knee(it's already half off).
It's very hot here. Helmets make things worse.
IMHO
[]'s
I have to keep going over this. https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/kunich.html This shows that there is NO improvement in mortality due to wearing helmets.
But there IS improvement in GENERAL health by wearing helmets. Most bicycle accidents are fall-overs. This can cause serious injuries. Yet, these injuries are easily protected against with helmets. Think of it this way - if a car hits a pedestrian at 10mph, there is rarely serious injuries. If a car hits a pedestrian at 20 mph the mortality rate is 5%. If a car hits a pedestrian at 30 mph the mortality rate is 50% and at 40 mph it is 80% These numbers are well known and published everywhere. So why,
The brunt is that you wear a helmet not to "save your life" but to save you from minor injuries that can spoil your day.
On 2/15/2024 4:32 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
The brunt is that you wear a helmet not to "save your
life" ...
Isn't that heresy? We're constantly told about lives saved
by helmets.
Well, not the one in the thread about the Foothill
Expressway fatality. "A reporter observed at the scene a
downed bicycle and a helmet."
... but to save you from minor injuries that can spoil your
day.
So why not similar promotion and mandates of foam plastic
protectors against skinned knees and elbows? Road rash of
"the lower extremities" is the most common ER treated injury
for bicyclists. Road rash of the "upper extremities" is the
second most common.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 13:32:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 1:11:32?PM UTC-8, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:19:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <S...@dow.br> wrote:way over the life expectancy here. Malnutrition and untreated chronic
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly
abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit
directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil"
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637> >>> >claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an
incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
80's tripped or slipped, probably the > 70's too. That's
diseases do not improve coordination. Also the pavements and streets
are full of potholes and trash.
20-29 year olds TBI mostly from drunken brawls, driving
without a seat belt at high speeds, assaults, motorcycles without a
helmet, deliberate murder etc.
I doubt many were bicycle related. None of the many I saw
were...
//
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018"
<https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
Rates were highest among adult males and children and adolescents aged
10-14 years.
//
When "showing how fast I can go" and "look, I'm riding on one
wheel" is more important than safety..
I'm sure Darwin played a hand there.
//
In 2018, 857 adult bicyclists died from traffic-related crashes in the
United States, the highest number in two decades. This discrepancy
might indicate that bicycle safety interventions have had some effect
on reducing some bicycle-related TBIs among adults, but more
comprehensive strategies are needed to protect cyclists from death and
the most severe types of injuries.
//
LOL. The number of TBI declined, but the overall number of
deaths INCREASED during the studied period. They should have looked
into why. I wonder how many of those accidents were caused by drivers
texting?
------------
I might fall off my bike and hit my head. More likely I'll
just break a bone in my limbs(again). Or completely tear the ruptured
ligament in my knee(it's already half off).
It's very hot here. Helmets make things worse.
IMHO
[]'s
I have to keep going over
this. https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/kunich.html This shows that
there is NO improvement in mortality due to wearing helmets.
Interesting.
But there IS improvement in GENERAL health by wearing helmets. Most
bicycle accidents are fall-overs. This can cause serious
injuries. Yet, these injuries are easily protected against with
helmets. Think of it this way - if a car hits a pedestrian at 10
mph, there is rarely serious injuries. If a car hits a pedestrian at
20 mph the mortality rate is 5%. If a car hits a pedestrian at 30
mph the mortality rate is 50% and at 40 mph it is 80% These numbers
are well known and published everywhere. So why, when people
complain about getting speeding tickets do traffic engineers simply
raise the speed limits? Wouldn't it be better to say "drive at the
speed limit"? I have two schools in 3 blocks from my home and the
speed limits are 35 mph!
The brunt is that you wear a helmet not to "save your life" but to
save you from minor injuries that can spoil your day.
Fair enough. Though if I "fell over" my head would be the last
thing to hit the ground.
[]'s
On 2/15/2024 2:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly
abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit
directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil"
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637>
claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an
incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018"
<https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
In the U.S.:
The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, in Victor G. Coronado et.
al., "Surveillance for Traumatic Brain Injury Related Deaths, United
States, 1997?2007" Surveillance Summaries May 6, 2011 / 60(SS05); 1?32
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6005a1.htm?s_cid=ss6005a1_w
shows, in table 10, that for 1997-2007 there were an average of just 325 >bicyclist traumatic brain injury (TBI) fatalities per year. The total
annual TBI fatalities from all causes averaged 53014.
Activity Avg. TBI Fatalities/yr Percent of total >Motorists 7955 15%
Pedestrians 1825 3.4%
Motorcyclists 1361 2.6%
Bicyclists 325 only 0.6%
When, oh when, will motorists and pedestrians finally get the
life-saving haranguing that they need to FINALLY wear helmets?
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 21:31:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2024 2:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:31:10 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
I worked > 70 hr weeks for 20 years in an ER.
I have NEVER seen brain injuries in anyone from a bicycle accident.
Stitched up a few faces and scalps of drunks with bicycles. They were
not able to tell me if they were riding or walking when they fell,
even after they had sobered up enough to be discharged.
Almost all injuries were to the legs and specially the arms. Mostly
abrasions, a couple of fractures(mostly wrists). A few damaged toe
nails that needed removing, Brazilians tend to ride wearing
flip-flops.
The few deaths were caused by multiple organ trauma. IOW, getting hit
directly by fast moving vehicles. The head was probably involved, but
they all bled out from ruptured chests, livers. spleens etc. D.O.A.
Helmets are not mandatory here for bicycles. Practically no-one wears
one, except in competitions. These are sponsored by bike shops and
they make helmets mandatory. $$$$.
I don't wear a helmet, don't even own one.
What are the stats for brain injury for cyclists in your countries?
Just wondering...
[]'s
That's odd:
"Traumatic Brain Injury Epidemiology in Brazil"
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875015013637> >>> claims:
"There were around 125,000 hospital admissions due to TBI a year, an
incidence of 65.7 admissions per 100,000 inhabitants per year."
There's no indication of what percentage or how many TBI were caused
by bicycle related injuries, but at 125,000 TBI admission, I would
expect to see a substantial number of bicycle related TBI injuries.
In the US:
"Emergency Department Visits for Bicycle-Related Traumatic Brain
Injuries Among Children and Adults - United States, 2009 - 2018"
<https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7019a1.htm>
TBI rates can be found near the bottom of the article.
In the U.S.:
The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, in Victor G. Coronado et.
al., "Surveillance for Traumatic Brain Injury Related Deaths, United
States, 1997?2007" Surveillance Summaries May 6, 2011 / 60(SS05); 1?32
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6005a1.htm?s_cid=ss6005a1_w
shows, in table 10, that for 1997-2007 there were an average of just 325
bicyclist traumatic brain injury (TBI) fatalities per year. The total
annual TBI fatalities from all causes averaged 53014.
Activity Avg. TBI Fatalities/yr Percent of total
Motorists 7955 15%
Pedestrians 1825 3.4%
Motorcyclists 1361 2.6%
Bicyclists 325 only 0.6%
The OP worked in an ER and therefore would be counting ER visits,
which do not necessarily result in hospital admissions. My numbers
from the CDC were counting bicycle related hospital admissions. Andrew mentioned both overall TBI incidents and fatalities, but like my
numbers, could only estimate how many were bicycle related. Frank concentrated on TBI fatalities. Perhaps if we were all using the same metrics (standard of measurement), we might be able to extract some
useful conclusions?
When, oh when, will motorists and pedestrians finally get the
life-saving haranguing that they need to FINALLY wear helmets?
You already answered that question. When helmets become more
fashionable. I had hoped that the wearable computing fad would
inspire a flood of electronic devices worn on the head, where a
bicycle helmet would make a suitable mounting platform, but that
didn't happen. Perhaps the bicycle helmet mounted rear view camera
and display for cyclists will become a fashion statement: <https://www.google.com/search?q=rear+view+camera+bicycle+helmet&tbm=isch>
3. The MEDICAL diagnosis is STILL being emphasized as head injuries = skull facture with concussion
- which is far more common and causes the most debilitating injuries - a far distant second unless you
find a well educated neurologist.
get worse ---> might have convulsions + might start acting odd),it's quite commonly not diagnosed until someone decides you might have
I was lucky in having a friend that cared enough to do some real investigation - it might have been
because he WAS a detective.
Brain protection, meh. What you want is a better version of
reality, one with no crashes, and eye protection!
https://techviral.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Mark-Zuckerberg-Shown-Metas-VR-Headset-Prototypes.jpg
On 2/15/2024 11:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The OP worked in an ER and therefore would be counting ER visits,
which do not necessarily result in hospital admissions. My numbers
from the CDC were counting bicycle related hospital admissions. Andrew
mentioned both overall TBI incidents and fatalities, but like my
numbers, could only estimate how many were bicycle related. Frank
concentrated on TBI fatalities. Perhaps if we were all using the same
metrics (standard of measurement), we might be able to extract some
useful conclusions?
We'd never agree on standards of measurement, in part because helmet >promoters use different types of hype for their claims.
Within the past
week or so, we've seen a statement claiming that a helmet definitely
saved a life. We've had years of claims that helmets prevent brain
injuries. We've seen statements claiming helmets reduce poorly defined
"head injuries." We've seen statements praising helmets even if they
prevent some minor scratches and inconvenience.
The implied foundation of all those claims is that bicycling is an
outsized contributor to those problems. But no matter which claim you >address, that's false.
At its root, helmet promotion slanders bicycling by greatly exaggerating
its danger.
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 23:36:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
Nonsense. There are many ways for bicyclists to compete that don't
involve shoulder to shoulder racing. I see king of the hill
competition on Strava, and many bicyclists simply compete with
themselves for faster speeds and longer distances.
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 23:36:48 -0500, Frank KrygowskiUK and America is generally focused on sport or leisure cycling. And to >further muddy the waters some commuters will aim for strava segments london >embankment or Richmond Park are two examples that come to mind!
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
Nonsense. There are many ways for bicyclists to compete that don't
involve shoulder to shoulder racing. I see king of the hill
competition on Strava, and many bicyclists simply compete with
themselves for faster speeds and longer distances.
This said while i will occasionally go for a segment etc, I’d classify
myself and others as leisure than sport riders.
Not sure about the numbers in terms of commuting vs leisure riders folks
who race are fairly low in numbers. Most race bikes (ie fast aggressive
road bikes) are bought to keep up with club mates or because folks like the >feel and for lots it’s a bit of denial that they can still hold that >position!
Ie they would be just as fast on a more relaxed position.
Roger Merriman
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 08:05:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Brain protection, meh. What you want is a better version of
reality, one with no crashes, and eye protection!
https://techviral.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Mark-Zuckerberg-Shown-Metas-VR-Headset-Prototypes.jpg
Not good enough. There is no rear-view camera and heads up display.
Such devices are made for playing games and virtuous reality. Extra
points for a gyroscopic leveled and/or horizon tracking camera. I
want to see where the bicycle is going and coming from, not where my
head happens to be aiming.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:28:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2024 11:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The OP worked in an ER and therefore would be counting ER visits,
which do not necessarily result in hospital admissions. My numbers
from the CDC were counting bicycle related hospital admissions. Andrew
mentioned both overall TBI incidents and fatalities, but like my
numbers, could only estimate how many were bicycle related. Frank
concentrated on TBI fatalities. Perhaps if we were all using the same
metrics (standard of measurement), we might be able to extract some
useful conclusions?
We'd never agree on standards of measurement, in part because helmet
promoters use different types of hype for their claims.
We're not discussing "standards of measurement". We're discussing
injuries and possibly fatalities per miles or hours ridden. My
acerbic remarks were observations which demonstrate a general lack of standardization in classifying bicycle accidents. When someone has an
axe to grind, they simply invent a new class of accident. Don't like
the numbers? No problem, just change the way the numbers are
represented or better yet, juggle what constitutes the population of acceptable accident victims.
Within the past
week or so, we've seen a statement claiming that a helmet definitely
saved a life. We've had years of claims that helmets prevent brain
injuries. We've seen statements claiming helmets reduce poorly defined
"head injuries." We've seen statements praising helmets even if they
prevent some minor scratches and inconvenience.
The implied foundation of all those claims is that bicycling is an
outsized contributor to those problems. But no matter which claim you
address, that's false.
At its root, helmet promotion slanders bicycling by greatly exaggerating
its danger.
Every sport has its inherent dangers. After all, it's not really a
sport without the risks and dangers. Who would attend a race or game
without the risk of carnage on the field? It's the smell of blood
that attracts the audience.
Every sport is surrounded by a mob of salesmen offering expensive
devices, clothing and designs which allegedly reduce the risks and
dangers. Just look at the elaborate protective uniforms and garments
worn by players and participants in many sports. There's nothing
unique about safety promoters in bicycling.
Therefore, I suggest you take a look at what players and participants
in other unsafe sports do about the problem. I have some opinions and guesses, but I'll save those for when I'm better than half awake.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:09:15 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 23:36:48 -0500, Frank KrygowskiUK and America is generally focused on sport or leisure cycling. And to
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
Nonsense. There are many ways for bicyclists to compete that don't
involve shoulder to shoulder racing. I see king of the hill
competition on Strava, and many bicyclists simply compete with
themselves for faster speeds and longer distances.
further muddy the waters some commuters will aim for strava segments london >> embankment or Richmond Park are two examples that come to mind!
This said while i will occasionally go for a segment etc, IÂ’d classify
myself and others as leisure than sport riders.
Not sure about the numbers in terms of commuting vs leisure riders folks
who race are fairly low in numbers. Most race bikes (ie fast aggressive
road bikes) are bought to keep up with club mates or because folks like the >> feel and for lots itÂ’s a bit of denial that they can still hold that
position!
Ie they would be just as fast on a more relaxed position.
Roger Merriman
I define "sport" pretty loosely. Is sailing a sport? Is skydiving?
target shooting? tossing frisbies?
On 2/17/2024 9:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 08:05:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Brain protection, meh. What you want is a better version of
reality, one with no crashes, and eye protection!
https://techviral.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Mark-Zuckerberg-Shown-Metas-VR-Headset-Prototypes.jpg
Not good enough. There is no rear-view camera and heads up display.
Such devices are made for playing games and virtuous reality. Extra
points for a gyroscopic leveled and/or horizon tracking camera. I
want to see where the bicycle is going and coming from, not where my
head happens to be aiming.
And fighter pilots' headgear is linked to weapons aim. Some
cyclists could use that feature too. >https://www.wired.com/2015/09/helmet-will-make-f-35-pilots-missile-slinging-cyborgs/
On 2/17/2024 10:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Every sport has its inherent dangers. After all, it's not really a
sport without the risks and dangers.
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
On 2/17/2024 10:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:28:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
At its root, helmet promotion slanders bicycling by greatly exaggerating >>> its danger.
Every sport has its inherent dangers. After all, it's not really a
sport without the risks and dangers.
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
A tiny percentage of motorists enter races; but driving to the grocery
is not counted as a "sport."
A tiny percentage of walkers enter race walking competitions; but
walking in general is not counted as a "sport."
The classification of bicycling as a "sport" has been used to disparage >cycling. I've seen data tables that claim the "sport" of bicycling
causes more injuries than football. But there are immensely more
bicyclists than football players, immensely more hours spent bicycling >compared to football, and unlike football, almost none of those hours
involve any competition.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 23:36:48 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
And it's a fallacy to classify most bicycling as "sport." That word
strongly implies competition; but only a tiny percentage of cyclists
ever enter any competition.
Nonsense. There are many ways for bicyclists to compete that don't
involve shoulder to shoulder racing. I see king of the hill
competition on Strava, and many bicyclists simply compete with
themselves for faster speeds and longer distances.
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