https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
On 12/22/2023 9:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I recently saw this: >https://chi.streetsblog.org/2023/12/18/not-just-water-under-the-bridge-illinois-supreme-court-reaffirms-the-1998-boub-v-wayne-case-that-endangered-bike-riders
and forwarded it to a bike lawyer I know who was astonished at the
original Boub ruling. We had a somewhat similar event locally. Two
brothers own a publicity company I'd worked with. (We produced some bike >safety PSAs for local TV.) The brothers were meeting to discuss business
at a local resident. One of them chose to ride his bike to the
restaurant, using some roads that are part of the large local metropark.
On a fast downhill, he hit a big pothole hidden by bright dappled
sunlight. He was badly injured, but not critically. He sued the park
system for negligence. (IIRC, they had long ago been notified about that >pothole.)
Oddly, Ohio has a law absolving property owners of responsibility for >injuries for any "recreational user." The park system defended itself,
saying the cyclist was a recreational user. He said he was not; he was
using his bike for transportation to a business meeting.
The park system won. The cyclist lost.
I don't know the long term implications of this. I don't like attitudes >creeping toward "If you're on a bike, you must be playing." Some of us
do ride for practical purposes.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:39:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 12/22/2023 9:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I recently saw this:
https://chi.streetsblog.org/2023/12/18/not-just-water-under-the-bridge-illinois-supreme-court-reaffirms-the-1998-boub-v-wayne-case-that-endangered-bike-riders
and forwarded it to a bike lawyer I know who was astonished at the
original Boub ruling. We had a somewhat similar event locally. Two
brothers own a publicity company I'd worked with. (We produced some bike
safety PSAs for local TV.) The brothers were meeting to discuss business
at a local resident. One of them chose to ride his bike to the
restaurant, using some roads that are part of the large local metropark.
On a fast downhill, he hit a big pothole hidden by bright dappled
sunlight. He was badly injured, but not critically. He sued the park
system for negligence. (IIRC, they had long ago been notified about that
pothole.)
Oddly, Ohio has a law absolving property owners of responsibility for
injuries for any "recreational user." The park system defended itself,
saying the cyclist was a recreational user. He said he was not; he was
using his bike for transportation to a business meeting.
The park system won. The cyclist lost.
I don't know the long term implications of this. I don't like attitudes
creeping toward "If you're on a bike, you must be playing." Some of us
do ride for practical purposes.
I don't like attitudes creeping toward "bicycling as recreation isn't practical."
My doctor insists that it's very practical.
On 12/22/2023 12:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2023 11:11 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 11:39:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 12/22/2023 9:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I recently saw this:
https://chi.streetsblog.org/2023/12/18/not-just-water-under-the-bridge-illinois-supreme-court-reaffirms-the-1998-boub-v-wayne-case-that-endangered-bike-riders
and forwarded it to a bike lawyer I know who was astonished at the
original Boub ruling. We had a somewhat similar event locally. Two
brothers own a publicity company I'd worked with. (We produced some bike >>>> safety PSAs for local TV.) The brothers were meeting to discuss business >>>> at a local resident. One of them chose to ride his bike to the
restaurant, using some roads that are part of the large local metropark. >>>>
On a fast downhill, he hit a big pothole hidden by bright dappled
sunlight. He was badly injured, but not critically. He sued the park
system for negligence. (IIRC, they had long ago been notified about that >>>> pothole.)
Oddly, Ohio has a law absolving property owners of responsibility for
injuries for any "recreational user." The park system defended itself, >>>> saying the cyclist was a recreational user. He said he was not; he was >>>> using his bike for transportation to a business meeting.
The park system won. The cyclist lost.
I don't know the long term implications of this. I don't like attitudes >>>> creeping toward "If you're on a bike, you must be playing." Some of us >>>> do ride for practical purposes.
I don't like attitudes creeping toward "bicycling as recreation isn't
practical."
My doctor insists that it's very practical.
+1
'Practical' is not an objective standard and as Milton Friedman pithily
queried, "Who decides?".
In this case, a court decided. I don't like that decision.
It may not matter to some whose riding style is very constrained.
But I
think we need to work to keep our rights to the road.
There are those
who would take them away.
There are those
who would take them away.
Not many, nor enough to worry about.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 16:00:24 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
There are those
who would take them away.
Not many, nor enough to worry about.
But there are *lots* of people
who are working very hard to "help" us.
They have succeeded in putting some of my favorite steets off limits.
Luckily, I ride on Main only when fresh and alert,
and there is an alternative to Fort Wayne.
(Main and Fort Wayne are a pair of one-way streets.)
On 12/22/2023 9:42 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
But there are *lots* of people
who are working very hard to "help" us.
They have succeeded in putting some of my favorite steets off limits.
Luckily, I ride on Main only when fresh and alert,
and there is an alternative to Fort Wayne.
(Main and Fort Wayne are a pair of one-way streets.)
I think Joy's talking about bike facilities that make riding more
hazardous for competent cyclists. Door zone bike lanes are a classic
example. Straight-ahead bike lanes to the right of right-turn-only lanes
are another. Edge line rumble strips are a third.
But there have been worse attempts. A few years back a bill was
introduced in Ohio to prohibit bicycling on any road with a speed limit >greater than 35 miles per hour. Fortunately, it went nowhere in the >legislature.
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
On 2023-12-22, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I get a "page not found", but thanks for taking the effort to post things.
pH
On 2023-12-22, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I get a "page not found", but thanks for taking the effort to post things.
pH
On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 10:07:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/23/2023 9:29 PM, pH wrote:
On 2023-12-22, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I get a "page not found", but thanks for taking the effort to post things. >>>
pH
Short descriptor here with case link:
https://law.justia.com/cases/illinois/supreme-court/2023/128602.html
The question I would have is "Why did you hit the pot hole?"
On 12/23/2023 9:29 PM, pH wrote:
On 2023-12-22, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I get a "page not found", but thanks for taking the effort to post things. >>
pH
Short descriptor here with case link: https://law.justia.com/cases/illinois/supreme-court/2023/128602.html
On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 10:07:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/23/2023 9:29 PM, pH wrote:
On 2023-12-22, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://www.audacy.com/wbbm780/news/local/illinois-bicyclists-hit-dangerous-potholes-at-your-own-risk
I get a "page not found", but thanks for taking the effort to post things. >>>
pH
Short descriptor here with case link: >>https://law.justia.com/cases/illinois/supreme-court/2023/128602.html
The question I would have is "Why did you hit the pot hole?"
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