A pair of transgender athletes captured gold and silver medals Sunday
at a major Illinois women's cycling competition.
The cyclists, identified as 25-year-old Tessa Johnson and 30-year-old
Evelyn Williamson (both of whom are biological males who identify as transgender women), took home first and second place, respectively, in
the women's Single Speed competition of the Illinois State Cyclocross Championship, according to a report.
Along with a gold medal, Johnson, who competed in men's cycling at
Clemson University, also finished third in the female half race, which
netted the transgender athlete a $100 prize.
Johnson has no major accomplishments in men's cycling, the report
noted, but Johnson and Williamson have both appeared to find success
in women's cycling.
The pair also finished first and second in October's Chicago
CycloCross Cup, according to the report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-athletes-dominate-illinois-womens-cycling-competition
I vote for cutting off their puny little balls and stuffing them down
their throats. Where are the feminists who hate men when you really
need them?
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:33:15 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 10:51:46 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson >>><jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>>>percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or >>>learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >>>strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
It's none of my business if some sissy guy wants to dress up in
women's clothes and make a fool of himself. We were waited on at a >>restaurant yesterday by such an individual. The service was excellent
and I left a 20% tip as I usually do. I had no reason to use a
pronoun, but if I had, I'd simply said "the wait_person," rather than >>offend or use some off kilter pronoun.
It's quite another thing, however, when he demands to be treated as a >>woman, take part in women's athletic events, and sneak into the
woman_only places.
On of the things that sort of "turns me off" toward to "those sort" is
that my wife - a real live female - didn't prance around waving a
floppy wrist. Or making coy remarks.
And thinking about it a bit, I don't believe I'd be excited about a
female female that acted that way :-)
A pair of transgender athletes captured gold and silver medals Sunday
at a major Illinois women's cycling competition.
The cyclists, identified as 25-year-old Tessa Johnson and 30-year-old
Evelyn Williamson (both of whom are biological males who identify as transgender women), took home first and second place, respectively, in
the women's Single Speed competition of the Illinois State Cyclocross Championship, according to a report.
Along with a gold medal, Johnson, who competed in men's cycling at
Clemson University, also finished third in the female half race, which
netted the transgender athlete a $100 prize.
Johnson has no major accomplishments in men's cycling, the report
noted, but Johnson and Williamson have both appeared to find success
in women's cycling.
The pair also finished first and second in October's Chicago
CycloCross Cup, according to the report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-athletes-dominate-illinois-womens-cycling-competition
I vote for cutting off their puny little balls and stuffing them down
their throats. Where are the feminists who hate men when you really
need them?
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races"
or "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got
college-entrance test results back with a chart for converting
the raw scores into percentile. First I used the girl's chart
to see what I was going to get credit for, then I used the
boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first
in the Special Olympics.
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the
Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the
Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the
Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body
strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on
hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease >strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just >testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the
Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the
Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body
strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on
hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the
Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the
Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body
strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on
hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease >> strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just >> testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or
"Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance
test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>> get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did. >>>>>
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>> Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the
Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body
strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average, >>>> a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes
any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on
hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease >>> strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just >>> testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
On 12/6/2023 7:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or >>>>>>> "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance >>>>>> test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into
percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>>> get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did. >>>>>>
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>>> Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or
learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>>> Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >>>>> strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average, >>>>> a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes >>>>> any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on
hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease >>>> strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just
testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex >> folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie >> testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
Yes, you are right, but statistically insignificant. I had a
tenant once who was a Kleinfelter's. Committed suicide a few
years later.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 7:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or >>>>>>>> "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance >>>>>>> test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>>>>>> percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>>>> get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did. >>>>>>>
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>>>> Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or >>>>>> learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>>>> Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average
between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a
woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >>>>>> strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average, >>>>>> a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes >>>>>> any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on >>>>> hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease
strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just >>>>> testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex >>> folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie >>> testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
Yes, you are right, but statistically insignificant. I had a
tenant once who was a Kleinfelter's. Committed suicide a few
years later.
All of these in fact transgender its self is in total 0.5% of the
population, with about 0.1% trans women who are what the problem is with, >transgender men is less problematic and newsworthy.
And some 0.2% who don’t fit either side or don’t answer the question. Uk >census.
Roger Merriman
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 07:35:37 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:04:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 7:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or >>>>>>>>>> "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance >>>>>>>>> test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>>>>>>>> percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>>>>>> get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did. >>>>>>>>>
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>>>>>> Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or >>>>>>>> learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>>>>>> Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average >>>>>>>> between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a >>>>>>>> woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >>>>>>>> strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average, >>>>>>>> a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes >>>>>>>> any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on >>>>>>> hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease
strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just
testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex
folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie
testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
Yes, you are right, but statistically insignificant. I had a
tenant once who was a Kleinfelter's. Committed suicide a few
years later.
All of these in fact transgender its self is in total 0.5% of the >>>population, with about 0.1% trans women who are what the problem is with, >>>transgender men is less problematic and newsworthy.
And some 0.2% who don’t fit either side or don’t answer the question. Uk >>>census.
Roger Merriman
There's no such thing as transgender. Chromosomes are permanant, so
it's impossible to change your gender/sex. Those who claim to be able
to do it are simply pretending.
Well... the U.S. government uses three different entries in the "SEX"
block on your passport. "M", "F" and "X". :-)
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 07:35:37 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:04:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 7:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or >>>>>>>>>> "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance >>>>>>>>> test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>>>>>>>> percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to >>>>>>>>> get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did. >>>>>>>>>
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the >>>>>>>>> Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or >>>>>>>> learning while I was referring solely to physical ability.
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>>>>>> Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average >>>>>>>> between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a >>>>>>>> woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body >>>>>>>> strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average, >>>>>>>> a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes >>>>>>>> any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on >>>>>>> hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease
strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just
testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex
folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie
testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
Yes, you are right, but statistically insignificant. I had a
tenant once who was a Kleinfelter's. Committed suicide a few
years later.
All of these in fact transgender its self is in total 0.5% of the
population, with about 0.1% trans women who are what the problem is with, >>> transgender men is less problematic and newsworthy.
And some 0.2% who don’t fit either side or don’t answer the question. Uk
census.
Roger Merriman
There's no such thing as transgender. Chromosomes are permanant, so
it's impossible to change your gender/sex. Those who claim to be able
to do it are simply pretending.
Well... the U.S. government uses three different entries in the "SEX"
block on your passport. "M", "F" and "X". :-)
On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 7:10:55 AM UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
Not a UCI sanctioned race then! Looks like American cycling is persisting
A pair of transgender athletes captured gold and silver medals Sunday
at a major Illinois women's cycling competition.
The cyclists, identified as 25-year-old Tessa Johnson and 30-year-old
Evelyn Williamson (both of whom are biological males who identify as
transgender women), took home first and second place, respectively, in
the women's Single Speed competition of the Illinois State Cyclocross
Championship, according to a report.
Along with a gold medal, Johnson, who competed in men's cycling at
Clemson University, also finished third in the female half race, which
netted the transgender athlete a $100 prize.
Johnson has no major accomplishments in men's cycling, the report
noted, but Johnson and Williamson have both appeared to find success
in women's cycling.
The pair also finished first and second in October's Chicago
CycloCross Cup, according to the report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-athletes-dominate-illinois-womens-cycling-competition
I vote for cutting off their puny little balls and stuffing them down
their throats. Where are the feminists who hate men when you really
need them?
with testosterone levels as clearly it worked so well before…
This is the point that the fearmongers intentionally overlook - this was
a privately run unsanctioned event. As such if they wish to allow transgendered people to race in the category of their choice, it's their decision and not a reflection on events that report to sanctioning bodies such as USAC.
To the best of my knowledge most other national cycling bodies have taken a >> similar line as the UCI ie if your a trans women professional isn’t
available, amateur only.
That's not what I read. For example, from the British Cycling Federation:
"In respect of Competitive Activity, to compete in the female category,
the Competitor’s birth sex must be female. " https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/Policy_for_competitive_activity.pdf
This is irrespective of professional/amateur status. As I understand it,
in general this is similar to the policies established by most other countries that host UCI events.
All national sanctioning bodies are required to follow the UCI regulation
for any rider who holds a UCI license and any event being held as UCI sanctioned. The UCI cannot dictate what the sanctioning bodies will or
will not allow for those riders who don't hold a UCI license or the
category assignments for non-UCI races.
At the professional level USACycling follows the UCI rules regardless of whether the race or rider are UCI sanctioned but they do allow trans competitors at the amateur level with some caveats. https://usacycling.org/about-us/governance/transgender-athletes-policy#current-policy
Ie this is self inflicted by American Cycling, fairness and inclusion
aren’t the same thing.
While I agree with the latter part of that statement, I see it as a
marketing issue - if an event chooses to allow transgendered 'females' to compete in female categories, the market will decide if that event will continue to survive. Womens cycling in the US is on a dangerous enough tightrope as it is. Regardless of the prizes list and the quality of the events, the number of cis women that show up for races many times barely fills out the prize list. It remains to be seen what could happen to
events if the woman's field at a USAC sanctioned event were to become dominated by trans athletes. The event may flourish as the Belgian Waffle race seems to be, it it may whither and die from lack of participation.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 19:21:25 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/7/2023 4:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 07:35:37 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:04:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 7:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 12/6/2023 9:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Dec 2023 21:51:52 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2023 05:14:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
Or even "women's" or "men's" events. Why not just "Foot races" or >>>>>>>>>>>> "Bicycle races".
I started thinking that back in 1959, when we got college-entrance >>>>>>>>>>> test results back with a chart for converting the raw scores into >>>>>>>>>>> percentile. First I used the girl's chart to see what I was going to
get credit for, then I used the boy's chart to see how I really did.
I'd a heap ruther come in dead last in an open race than first in the
Special Olympics.
If I understand what you are saying you are comparing knowledge or >>>>>>>>>> learning while I was referring solely to physical ability. >>>>>>>>>>
Disregarding the reproduction equipment for a moment, looking at the >>>>>>>>>> Internet, it seems that "Men's upper body strength is on average >>>>>>>>>> between 40-60% higher than women's. Think of that like this; if a >>>>>>>>>> woman could lift 100 lbs, a man could life around 150 lbs. Lower-body
strength is on average only 25% higher in men. Women have, on average,
a 41% lower grip strength than men."
I doubt that simply saying "OH! But I feel like I'm a woman" changes >>>>>>>>>> any of that.
Just self identifying clearly not going to make any difference, if on >>>>>>>>> hormone therapy while is more to it, having low testosterone will decrease
strength and so on.
As ever its a it’s complex and in many ways unpredictable/unknown ie just
testosterone levels aren’t enough.
Roger Merriman
Or a very simple "one Y chromosome and you're disqualified"
rule. If I recall that dates from reaction to the infamous
East German guys who swept the women's Olympics long ago.
As ever biology does like to make life complicated, ie stuff like intersex
folks that make simple rules more complicated and difficult.
Is someone in athletics at moment who has been caught up with the trans ie
testosterone testing.
Though I’ve not read much beyond that she exists.
Roger Merriman
Yes, you are right, but statistically insignificant. I had a
tenant once who was a Kleinfelter's. Committed suicide a few
years later.
All of these in fact transgender its self is in total 0.5% of the
population, with about 0.1% trans women who are what the problem is with, >>>>> transgender men is less problematic and newsworthy.
And some 0.2% who don’t fit either side or don’t answer the question. Uk
census.
Roger Merriman
There's no such thing as transgender. Chromosomes are permanant, so
it's impossible to change your gender/sex. Those who claim to be able
to do it are simply pretending.
Well... the U.S. government uses three different entries in the "SEX"
block on your passport. "M", "F" and "X". :-)
US government policy and actual reality are very different
Since I read that, in the news, I've had this vision of an Immigration
Agent in some remote country standing there, scratching his head and thinking, "I know we've got M's and F's here, but WHAT is an X? So he
asks the person about this "X" and they reply, "that's a "LGBTQ".
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:31:48 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 10:50:30 AM UTC-5, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 9:06:11 AM UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>I agree with those economic facts. And I've never been much of a sports
Women’s sports in general struggled, so echoing what you say about America.In most cases, funding is a function of marketing. The reason womens
Number of even quite large races have been cancelled due to lack of
funding.
sports don't get the $ (or € ) to support salary/purse parity is that
the public interest isn't high enough to support massive advertising
dollars. You can assign blame for that where you will, but at the end
of the day it's a business decision that has very little to do with the
gender of the athlete. For example:
In professional tennis, the top tournaments have purse parity - because
woman players have as much draw as men players. Forbes reports that off
court income (endorsements and such) shows:
Novak Djokovic $25 mil
Carlos Alcaraz $20 mil
Emma Raducanu $15 mil
Iga Swiatek $14 mil
Rafael Nadal $14 mil
Maybe not parity, but hardly an indication of allegations of misogyny.
This is what has bothered me about the US womens soccer teams
complaining about salary parity. Of course, the womens teams have been
wildly more successful than the mens teams. But does that translate
into a sustainable business model? Until the womens teams can show
similar viewership interest to the mens teams - no. Advertisers won't
pay for events that viewers aren't watching. The same goes for womens
cycling - until the public interest approaches that of the men, it
won't justify salary parity within a business model.
spectator, so I suppose my opinions don't count with advertisers.
But I've noticed that our local TV sports coverage seems to give a lot
of air time to local women's teams. And personally, I'd much rather watch
women than men playing sports. Women are just easier to look at! ;-)
Well, there is that, but my preference to watch womens sports has more to
do with appreciating technique and fineness as it does titillation. I'd rather watch a womens tennis match because it isn't 90% just whacking the ball as hard as they can, more effort on ball control and tactics. Womens basketball is also more entertaining for me because there's more effort
on tactics and technique than turning it into a full-contact sport as the
men do. Womens Beach volleyball though, as much as I appreciate the athleticism... :)
On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 9:06:11 AM UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
funkma...@hotmail.com <funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 7:10:55 AM UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:Get some private events here that run a broadly similar essential choose
Not a UCI sanctioned race then! Looks like American cycling is persisting >>>> with testosterone levels as clearly it worked so well before…
A pair of transgender athletes captured gold and silver medals Sunday >>>>> at a major Illinois women's cycling competition.
The cyclists, identified as 25-year-old Tessa Johnson and 30-year-old >>>>> Evelyn Williamson (both of whom are biological males who identify as >>>>> transgender women), took home first and second place, respectively, in >>>>> the women's Single Speed competition of the Illinois State Cyclocross >>>>> Championship, according to a report.
Along with a gold medal, Johnson, who competed in men's cycling at
Clemson University, also finished third in the female half race, which >>>>> netted the transgender athlete a $100 prize.
Johnson has no major accomplishments in men's cycling, the report
noted, but Johnson and Williamson have both appeared to find success >>>>> in women's cycling.
The pair also finished first and second in October's Chicago
CycloCross Cup, according to the report.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-athletes-dominate-illinois-womens-cycling-competition
I vote for cutting off their puny little balls and stuffing them down >>>>> their throats. Where are the feminists who hate men when you really
need them?
This is the point that the fearmongers intentionally overlook - this was >>> a privately run unsanctioned event. As such if they wish to allow
transgendered people to race in the category of their choice, it's their >>> decision and not a reflection on events that report to sanctioning bodies such as USAC.
your field don’t be arse about it. But they are to the fun end of things. >>>> To the best of my knowledge most other national cycling bodies have taken a
I though some uci non competitive stuff was allowed but yes I was quotingsimilar line as the UCI ie if your a trans women professional isn’t
available, amateur only.
That's not what I read. For example, from the British Cycling Federation: >>> "In respect of Competitive Activity, to compete in the female category,
the Competitor’s birth sex must be female. "
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/Policy_for_competitive_activity.pdf
from memory which is never wise really!
I’d assume mass start Gravel races and events are rather easier to be more >> inclusive as I believe only a few at the pointy end will care about times
This is irrespective of professional/amateur status. As I understand it, >>> in general this is similar to the policies established by most other
countries that host UCI events.
All national sanctioning bodies are required to follow the UCI regulation >>> for any rider who holds a UCI license and any event being held as UCI
sanctioned. The UCI cannot dictate what the sanctioning bodies will or
will not allow for those riders who don't hold a UCI license or the
category assignments for non-UCI races.
At the professional level USACycling follows the UCI rules regardless of >>> whether the race or rider are UCI sanctioned but they do allow trans
competitors at the amateur level with some caveats.
https://usacycling.org/about-us/governance/transgender-athletes-policy#current-policy
Ie this is self inflicted by American Cycling, fairness and inclusion
aren’t the same thing.
While I agree with the latter part of that statement, I see it as a
marketing issue - if an event chooses to allow transgendered 'females' to >>> compete in female categories, the market will decide if that event will
continue to survive. Womens cycling in the US is on a dangerous enough
tightrope as it is. Regardless of the prizes list and the quality of the >>> events, the number of cis women that show up for races many times barely >>> fills out the prize list. It remains to be seen what could happen to
events if the woman's field at a USAC sanctioned event were to become
dominated by trans athletes. The event may flourish as the Belgian Waffle >>> race seems to be, it it may whither and die from lack of participation.
other are there for the experience which is my experience on most gravel
events.
Women’s sports in general struggled, so echoing what you say about America.
Number of even quite large races have been cancelled due to lack of
funding.
In most cases, funding is a function of marketing. The reason womens
sports don't get the $ (or € ) to support salary/purse parity is that the public interest isn't high enough to support massive advertising dollars.
You can assign blame for that where you will, but at the end of the day
it's a business decision that has very little to do with the gender of
the athlete. For example:
In professional tennis, the top tournaments have purse parity - because
woman players have as much draw as men players. Forbes reports that off
court income (endorsements and such) shows:
Novak Djokovic $25 mil
Carlos Alcaraz $20 mil
Emma Raducanu $15 mil
Iga Swiatek $14 mil
Rafael Nadal $14 mil
Maybe not parity, but hardly an indication of allegations of misogyny.
This is what has bothered me about the US womens soccer teams complaining about salary parity. Of course, the womens teams have been wildly more successful than the mens teams. But does that translate into a
sustainable business model? Until the womens teams can show similar viewership interest to the mens teams - no. Advertisers won't pay for
events that viewers aren't watching. The same goes for womens cycling -
until the public interest approaches that of the men, it won't justify
salary parity within a business model.
I’m unconvinced that trans women are helping this even From an image
perspective, but I don’t race or am a woman and so on so my experience is >> 2nd hand.
Pardon the metaphor, but like you I don't have skin in that game.
However, at least in the US, the womens peloton for the time being is supportive of transgendered participation with notable exceptions such as Inga Thompson and Alysin Sydor.
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