• Cruise Control

    From Joy Beeson@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 26 23:29:40 2022
    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of
    automobiles.

    It was exhausting! I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap. He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.

    --
    Joy Beeson
    joy beeson at centurylink dot net
    http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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  • From Stephen Harding@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Sun Mar 27 07:03:56 2022
    On 3/26/22 11:29 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of automobiles.

    It was exhausting! I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap. He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.


    Used to be you had to keep cancelling/resuming the cruise control of the vehicle in situations like that, which, over a period of time, ends up
    having a driver (me) just turning the thing off.

    Now days they have "adaptive" cruise control that will automatically
    slow the vehicle up then speed up when clear. No driver input other
    than determining a setting of how close you want to get to a vehicle in
    front of you before the system backs off the speed.

    My vehicle is too old for such high tech but it sounds like a wonderful
    feature to have in a vehicle if you frequently drive in higher speed
    traffic.


    SMH

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  • From Frank Krygowski@21:1/5 to Joy Beeson on Sun Mar 27 13:57:13 2022
    On 3/26/2022 11:29 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of automobiles.

    It was exhausting! I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap. He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I agree, few people can intelligently handle clotted queues of traffic.
    When that situation comes up on a freeway - say, because construction or
    a crash has everyone slowly funneled into one lane - I generally leave a
    large gap between me and the car in front. That allows me to take out
    the bouncing accordion effect. Occasionally someone behind me will get impatient, but I either ignore that senselessness, or I slow down a bit
    more. (Tailgaters are idiots.)

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.

    I'm sure modern cruise controls operate on a P-I-D scheme. That's
    proportional, integral, derivative - it's a complicated scheme used to
    control lots of industrial processes. If properly tuned, it shouldn't
    hunt up and down; it should quickly settle to the required throttle
    opening for constant speed.

    Having said that, the first car we had with cruise control, a 1994
    Saturn, did "hunt" under certain conditions. Since it happened only very occasionally, I never bothered to take it to the dealer. I do wonder if
    they would have been capable of fixing it. PID tuning can be tricky.


    --
    - Frank Krygowski

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  • From Frank Krygowski@21:1/5 to Stephen Harding on Sun Mar 27 14:00:49 2022
    On 3/27/2022 7:03 AM, Stephen Harding wrote:
    On 3/26/22 11:29 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of
    automobiles.

    It was exhausting!  I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap.  He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.


    Used to be you had to keep cancelling/resuming the cruise control of the vehicle in situations like that, which, over a period of time, ends up
    having a driver (me) just turning the thing off.

    Now days they have "adaptive" cruise control that will automatically
    slow the vehicle up then speed up when clear.  No driver input other
    than determining a setting of how close you want to get to a vehicle in
    front of you before the system backs off the speed.

    My vehicle is too old for such high tech but it sounds like a wonderful feature to have in a vehicle if you frequently drive in higher speed
    traffic.

    My brief experience with adaptive cruise control (a rental car I had for
    a few days) was less than satisfactory. Here's why:

    On normal cruise, if I'm doing 70 and come upon someone doing 65 (i.e. 5
    below the limit) my car begins to approach them, and I signal and change
    lanes to pass.

    With adaptive cruise, I found that my car would gradually decelerate
    with no notification. I'd find myself following the slow driver, 5 below
    the limit.

    It wasn't a disaster, I guess, but I prefer to make the decision myself.


    --
    - Frank Krygowski

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid on Sun Mar 27 23:39:20 2022
    On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 23:29:40 -0400, Joy Beeson
    <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:


    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of >automobiles.

    It was exhausting! I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap. He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.

    There is a minimum cruise control speed for older cars with cruise
    control: <https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-minimum-speed-required-for-a-cars-cruise-control-to-operate>
    It varies by manufacturer, but mostly it's mostly around 25 mph. For
    example, if you're crawling forward at 5 mph, the cruise control
    cannot be turned on. If you're driving at over 25 mph, it can be
    turned on. The exceptions are some of the modern electric/hybrid
    cars, where the cruise control minimum speed is zero. For these, you
    can be going any speed and activate the cruise control. If you want
    to crawl forward at bumper to bumper speeds, buy a Tesla.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Stephen Harding@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Mon Mar 28 10:43:21 2022
    On 3/27/22 1:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 3/26/2022 11:29 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

    Many years ago, in Schenectady New York, I got into a pace line of
    automobiles.

    It was exhausting!  I had to stand up on the pedals and brake at the
    same time -- each driver would go a wee tiny bit faster than the car
    ahead until he got too close, then go a wee tiny bit slower until he
    felt the need to close the gap.  He couldn't *match* the car ahead,
    because that car, too, was wobbling to keep an on-the-average
    comfortable space.

    I agree, few people can intelligently handle clotted queues of traffic.
    When that situation comes up on a freeway - say, because construction or
    a crash has everyone slowly funneled into one lane - I generally leave a large gap between me and the car in front. That allows me to take out
    the bouncing accordion effect. Occasionally someone behind me will get impatient, but I either ignore that senselessness, or I slow down a bit
    more. (Tailgaters are idiots.)

    I rather suspect that cruise control also hunts, just as thermostats
    do, feeding more gas when the car falls below the set speed, feeding
    less when it is moving faster.

    I'm sure modern cruise controls operate on a P-I-D scheme. That's proportional, integral, derivative - it's a complicated scheme used to control lots of industrial processes. If properly tuned, it shouldn't
    hunt up and down; it should quickly settle to the required throttle
    opening for constant speed.

    Having said that, the first car we had with cruise control, a 1994
    Saturn, did "hunt" under certain conditions. Since it happened only very occasionally, I never bothered to take it to the dealer. I do wonder if
    they would have been capable of fixing it. PID tuning can be tricky.

    A long time ago, a friend of mine bought a Sears cruise control to add
    to her Chevy Impala. It would do the old slow down-speed up cycle in an unsatisfactory way.

    I took a look at it and found the control module had two set screws; one
    that adjusted sensitivity and one for gain. These determined how
    quickly the unit determined it needed to speed up or slow down to
    maintain a speed and the other at how quickly it actually did the speed
    up or slow down.

    After 30 minutes of trial-test cycling in traffic, got it so it behaved
    very nicely.

    Not sure how modern units are controlled but there's probably AI in it somewhere!


    SMH

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