A cyclist's family is filing suit after a May (I think) fatal accident in Lafayette, CA.
http://www.wintercyclingblog.org/2021/10/23/legal-claim-filed-against-lafayette-over-cyclists-death-at-controversial-roundabout-the-mercury-news/
Roudabouts seem like a busy one would be very hard to negotiate, given that
a lot of motorists already seem to be having trouble with them.
I know I've seen one in Napa, CA that I would not care to try, it's so busy.
Do they have these in Portland, J. Beattie?
Has anyone tried them?
pH in Aptos
On 10/24/2021 4:26 PM, pH wrote:
A cyclist's family is filing suit after a May (I think) fatal accident in
Lafayette, CA.
http://www.wintercyclingblog.org/2021/10/23/legal-claim-filed-against-lafayette-over-cyclists-death-at-controversial-roundabout-the-mercury-news/
Roudabouts seem like a busy one would be very hard to negotiate, given that >> a lot of motorists already seem to be having trouble with them.
I know I've seen one in Napa, CA that I would not care to try, it's so busy. >>
Do they have these in Portland, J. Beattie?
Has anyone tried them?
pH in Aptos
We have two relatively new roundabouts within about five miles of our
home, and another new one within ten miles. These are all single lane versions. I've also ridden quite a few of them in France.
So far, I've had no trouble using them and no close calls, but one must
be assertive. Of course, I absolutely take the lane approaching the roundabout and within the roundabout. And a few times, when I was in the circle and a motorist seemed to approach too fast, I've held out my
hand, palm facing the driver in a traffic cop "stop" signal. They've
always yielded.
I think with that kind of behavior a roundabout is safer than the alternatives - stop signs or traffic lights. They're certainly more convenient.
I'm much more skeptical of roundabouts with two lanes in the circle.
I've read and believe that they are much more dangerous for cyclists.
And I feel the same about roundabouts that contain bike lanes within the circle. Those are just nuts. They tell the cyclist to ride off to the
right where drivers will lose track of them and do right hooks or
pull-outs.
[I've added r.b.tech. I know Andrew doesn't like roundabouts, so I'm
giving him a chance to respond.]
On 10/24/2021 4:26 PM, pH wrote:
A cyclist's family is filing suit after a May (I think)
fatal accident in
Lafayette, CA.
http://www.wintercyclingblog.org/2021/10/23/legal-claim-filed-against-lafayette-over-cyclists-death-at-controversial-roundabout-the-mercury-news/
Roudabouts seem like a busy one would be very hard to
negotiate, given that
a lot of motorists already seem to be having trouble with
them.
I know I've seen one in Napa, CA that I would not care to
try, it's so busy.
Do they have these in Portland, J. Beattie?
Has anyone tried them?
pH in Aptos
We have two relatively new roundabouts within about five
miles of our home, and another new one within ten miles.
These are all single lane versions. I've also ridden quite a
few of them in France.
So far, I've had no trouble using them and no close calls,
but one must be assertive. Of course, I absolutely take the
lane approaching the roundabout and within the roundabout.
And a few times, when I was in the circle and a motorist
seemed to approach too fast, I've held out my hand, palm
facing the driver in a traffic cop "stop" signal. They've
always yielded.
I think with that kind of behavior a roundabout is safer
than the alternatives - stop signs or traffic lights.
They're certainly more convenient.
I'm much more skeptical of roundabouts with two lanes in the
circle. I've read and believe that they are much more
dangerous for cyclists.
And I feel the same about roundabouts that contain bike
lanes within the circle. Those are just nuts. They tell the
cyclist to ride off to the right where drivers will lose
track of them and do right hooks or pull-outs.
[I've added r.b.tech. I know Andrew doesn't like
roundabouts, so I'm giving him a chance to respond.]
I have nothing good to say about them. They're a creative
combination of antipersonnel devices in an oversized meat
grinder for vehicles. Riding a half mile or a mile extra to
avoid them is my personal solution.
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:31:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I have nothing good to say about them. They're a creative
combination of antipersonnel devices in an oversized meat
grinder for vehicles. Riding a half mile or a mile extra to
avoid them is my personal solution.
By some miracle, roundabouts around here are designed by traffic
engineers, as witnessed by the "yield" signs in place of the city
fathers' beloved stop signs in places that teach drivers to ignore
stop signs.
Rumor has it that the roundabout is all done; there
was a warning out a week or two ago that traffic would be seriously
backed up while they completed the landscaping. (I hope it doen't
inclued tall bushes in the circle; that's my only complaint about the
older roundabouts.)
... But if you want to explain to me how a two-lane roundabout is even possible, you are going to have to use very short words and lots and
lots and lots of pictures.
On 10/26/2021 12:35 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:
... But if you want to explain to me how a two-lane roundabout is
even possible, you are going to have to use very short words and
lots and lots and lots of pictures.
I'm very skeptical about two lane roundabouts. I've encountered only
one, about an hour's drive from here, and I've used it only when
motoring. I was going straight through (so to speak) and stayed in
the outer lane.
Perhaps the inner lane is for passing when there's a backup stopping
traffic in the outer lane? I don't know.
Am 26.10.2021 um 16:59 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
On 10/26/2021 12:35 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:
... But if you want to explain to me how a two-lane roundabout is
even possible, you are going to have to use very short words and lots
and lots and lots of pictures.
I'm very skeptical about two lane roundabouts. I've encountered only
one, about an hour's drive from here, and I've used it only when
motoring. I was going straight through (so to speak) and stayed in the
outer lane.
Perhaps the inner lane is for passing when there's a backup stopping
traffic in the outer lane? I don't know.
In the UK, multi-lane roundabouts are the most common "high-speed" (say
40 mph on the straight leg) traffic junctions to save some money where
every sane person would build an overpass (plus simple traffic lights) instead.
Am 26.10.2021 um 06:35 schrieb Joy Beeson:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:31:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I have nothing good to say about them. They're a creative
combination of antipersonnel devices in an oversized meat
grinder for vehicles. Riding a half mile or a mile extra to
avoid them is my personal solution.
By some miracle, roundabouts around here are designed by traffic
engineers, as witnessed by the "yield" signs in place of the city
fathers' beloved stop signs in places that teach drivers to ignore
stop signs.
Rumor has it that the roundabout is all done; there
was a warning out a week or two ago that traffic would be seriously
backed up while they completed the landscaping. (I hope it doen't
inclued tall bushes in the circle; that's my only complaint about the
older roundabouts.)
The safety engineers know that the key safety design element on traffic circles is vehicle speed. You wish to ensure that the sight lines are
such that
a) approaching vehicles don't see too early whether they need to stop,
so that they slow down to < 20 mph
b) vehicles entering the circle see perfectly well whether it's safe to enter.
Combining these two, tall bushes in the middle of the circle are a
safety feature.
Rolf
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 26.10.2021 um 06:35 schrieb Joy Beeson:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:31:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I have nothing good to say about them. They're a creative
combination of antipersonnel devices in an oversized meat
grinder for vehicles. Riding a half mile or a mile extra to
avoid them is my personal solution.
By some miracle, roundabouts around here are designed by traffic
engineers, as witnessed by the "yield" signs in place of the city
fathers' beloved stop signs in places that teach drivers to ignore
stop signs.
Rumor has it that the roundabout is all done; there
was a warning out a week or two ago that traffic would be seriously
backed up while they completed the landscaping. (I hope it doen't
inclued tall bushes in the circle; that's my only complaint about the
older roundabouts.)
The safety engineers know that the key safety design element on traffic
circles is vehicle speed. You wish to ensure that the sight lines are
such that
a) approaching vehicles don't see too early whether they need to stop,
so that they slow down to < 20 mph
b) vehicles entering the circle see perfectly well whether it's safe to
enter.
Combining these two, tall bushes in the middle of the circle are a
safety feature.
Rolf
Limiting the motorist’s view of me on my bike as he’s speeding around the turn? Please stop trying to protect me…
I'm very skeptical about two lane roundabouts. I've encountered only
one, about an hour's drive from here, and I've used it only when
motoring. I was going straight through (so to speak) and stayed in the outer lane.
Perhaps the inner lane is for passing when there's a backup stopping traffic in the outer lane? I don't know.
Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten the exact
technique for doing it (especially if you're trying to exit from an
inner lane, and the driver next to you in an outer lane wants to keep
going), but it does work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively possible. I think part of it is a combination of traffic not going especially fast, and that there's a lot more staggering of traffic (and spaces for merging and cross-overs) than you would assume.
On 10/26/2021 5:01 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
<snip>
Yes, you're crossing lanes of traffic, and I've forgotten
the exact technique for doing it (especially if you're
trying to exit from an inner lane, and the driver next to
you in an outer lane wants to keep going), but it does
work, and surprisingly better than seems intuitively
possible. I think part of it is a combination of traffic
not going especially fast, and that there's a lot more
staggering of traffic (and spaces for merging and
cross-overs) than you would assume.
We had multi-lane roundabouts in the city I grew up in, for
two major roads with three lanes in each direction, but also
two other minor streets. For locals, they learned how to use
them, with all the weaving, but it wasn't a stress-free
experience. For tourists, and we had a lot of tourists, it
was confusing, including some drivers that would try to go
clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.
Now they are talking about turning the current one-way
traffic circle into "the world's largest two-way traffic
circle," with predictions about it actually working ranging
from 25% to 100% (100% is from the designer).
"The new plan calls for two-way traffic, with cars in the
outer lanes traveling counterclockwise as they do now and
cars in the innermost lanes moving in a clockwise
direction." Maybe they could put some two-way protected bike
lanes in the middle (being sarcastic). They can't get rid of
the circle, it's a large circle with a park in the center
and it's been there for nearly 100 year and it has eight
places to enter and exit the circle.
http://www.wintercyclingblog.org/2021/10/23/legal-claim-filed-against-lafayette-over-cyclists-death-at-controversial-roundabout-the-mercury-news/
Roudabouts seem like a busy one would be very hard to negotiate, given that
a lot of motorists already seem to be having trouble with them.
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