• Sailplanes on Mars?

    From Matt Herron Jr.@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 1 15:50:00 2022
    They want to try it, including dynamic soaring!

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/02072022-engineers-design-motorless-sailplanes-for-mars-exploration/

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  • From Martin Gregorie@21:1/5 to Matt Herron Jr. on Sat Jul 2 17:00:53 2022
    On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT), Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

    They want to try it, including dynamic soaring!

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/02072022-engineers-design-motorless-
    sailplanes-for-mars-exploration/

    There was another marsplane proposed by Aurora Flight Sciences that got
    test flown in 2002/3 - released at around 19 miles altitude (just under
    100,000 ft) from a balloon, it successfully unfolded and glided back to
    its launch point.

    https://www.spacedaily.com/news/marsplane-02b.html

    Its main drawback was that it was designed to pop out of its re-entry
    package and unfold at a suitable altitude before using a combination of
    rocket power and gliding flight to perform an area survey, but would not
    have been able to relaunch for a second flight.


    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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  • From Martin Gregorie@21:1/5 to Matt Herron Jr. on Sat Jul 2 18:28:59 2022
    On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT), Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

    They want to try it, including dynamic soaring!

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/02072022-engineers-design-motorless-
    sailplanes-for-mars-exploration/

    On closer reading, this proposal doesn't seem to improve on the Aurora marsplane, though I think its a bit smaller and lighter, because neither aircraft can take off after landing.

    In addition, I don't believe I've ever read anything that even hints of
    the possibility of dynamic soaring (or slope soaring for that matter) on
    Mars. I also know (Bob Parks communication) that the Aurora guys thought
    that their Marsplane would only be able to fly in the parts of Mars with
    the lowest ground level, such as Hellas, Argyre and the northern planitia.

    Even hard-extrapolation SF authors like Kim Stanley Robinson (he wrote the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy) doesn't think an aircraft would be capable of flight using aerodynamic lift until colonists have done drastic things to
    raise the Martian air pressure: his colonist's first aircraft are airships using hot gases for lift.


    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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  • From John Good@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 4 08:56:29 2022
    ... would not have been able to relaunch for a second flight.

    It seems the towplane shortage is not an exclusively terrestrial phenomenon.

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  • From Frank Whiteley@21:1/5 to Martin Gregorie on Mon Jul 4 09:39:34 2022
    On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:29:05 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT), Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
    They want to try it, including dynamic soaring!

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/02072022-engineers-design-motorless-
    sailplanes-for-mars-exploration/
    On closer reading, this proposal doesn't seem to improve on the Aurora marsplane, though I think its a bit smaller and lighter, because neither aircraft can take off after landing.

    In addition, I don't believe I've ever read anything that even hints of
    the possibility of dynamic soaring (or slope soaring for that matter) on Mars. I also know (Bob Parks communication) that the Aurora guys thought
    that their Marsplane would only be able to fly in the parts of Mars with
    the lowest ground level, such as Hellas, Argyre and the northern planitia.

    Even hard-extrapolation SF authors like Kim Stanley Robinson (he wrote the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy) doesn't think an aircraft would be capable of flight using aerodynamic lift until colonists have done drastic things to raise the Martian air pressure: his colonist's first aircraft are airships using hot gases for lift.
    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org
    Appears there's been some progress since their initial attempts. But not a Mars airframe.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/project-frigatebird-ai-for-autonomous-soaring/

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  • From Frank Whiteley@21:1/5 to Martin Gregorie on Mon Jul 4 09:48:00 2022
    On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:29:05 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT), Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
    They want to try it, including dynamic soaring!

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/02072022-engineers-design-motorless-
    sailplanes-for-mars-exploration/
    On closer reading, this proposal doesn't seem to improve on the Aurora marsplane, though I think its a bit smaller and lighter, because neither aircraft can take off after landing.

    In addition, I don't believe I've ever read anything that even hints of
    the possibility of dynamic soaring (or slope soaring for that matter) on Mars. I also know (Bob Parks communication) that the Aurora guys thought
    that their Marsplane would only be able to fly in the parts of Mars with
    the lowest ground level, such as Hellas, Argyre and the northern planitia.

    Even hard-extrapolation SF authors like Kim Stanley Robinson (he wrote the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy) doesn't think an aircraft would be capable of flight using aerodynamic lift until colonists have done drastic things to raise the Martian air pressure: his colonist's first aircraft are airships using hot gases for lift.
    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org
    This approach might have potential https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/zephyr-high-flying-drone-has-been-up-for-17-days-as-part-of-army-test

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  • From Martin Gregorie@21:1/5 to Frank Whiteley on Mon Jul 4 18:39:50 2022
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 09:39:34 -0700 (PDT), Frank Whiteley wrote:

    Appears there's been some progress since their initial attempts. But
    not a Mars airframe. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/project-frigatebird-ai-
    for-autonomous-soaring/

    Don't forget the ALOFT project, a 5m span carbon autonomous model that demonstrated autonomous XC flight round a triangle in 2007.




    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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  • From Martin Gregorie@21:1/5 to Frank Whiteley on Mon Jul 4 19:31:06 2022
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 09:48:00 -0700 (PDT), Frank Whiteley wrote:

    This approach might have potential https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/zephyr-high-flying-drone-has-been-
    up-for-17-days-as-part-of-army-test

    Thanks for that link: I didn't know Zephyr is now an Airbus product (it
    was originally a Qinetiq development) or that it had crossed the Gulf of
    Mexico on an out-and-return.

    Very cool, and looks like a Marsplane too.


    --

    Martin | martin at
    Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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