After a long flight in good conditions, Shmulik Dimenstein yesterday died in the crash of his HpH Shark glider, near his home airport at Rifle, Colorado. The cause of the crash is under investigation; possibly relevant is a singular gust of 43 kts (recorded by the airport ASOS near the time of the crash) on an otherwise benign day.
Even a quick look at OLC results over the past several years will show Shmulik’s skill at – and love for – long flights among the mountains of western Colorado (and neighboring states). Less apparent will be his extraordinary hospitality to thosewho came to fly gliders at Rifle. He was a valued friend not only to glider pilots but also to the Rifle airport staff and the local FBO.
Hard to believe. Even harder to stomach. He was a great guy.
RIP Schmulie
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:54:13 AM UTC-6, John Good
https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=KRIL
On this chart it shows at 5:40 the wind at Rifle AP going from a mild W- NW day to South at 30 G43
RIP Shmulik Dimenstein
Nick
T
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also<Highly informative write-up snipped, for this-post's-brevity>
flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
------------------------------------------------
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
------------------------------------------------
I originally wrote this to be read by glider pilots. But it became apparent it would also be of interest to non-pilot friends and relatives wishing to better understand how this accident could happen to such a talented and experienced pilot. To aidthat understanding I will preface the report with a glossary of pertinent terms. To my pilot readers: feel free to skip this section. I also ask forgiveness for abbreviated explanations: this is not intended as a textbook, but merely to provide context
Virgaclouds to take on the appearance of a jellyfish, with rounded tops and dangling tentacles.
Virga is snow/rain falling from a cloud, that evaporates before it hits the ground. It is a common phenomenon in the western US. We do not see it as often in the east as it takes dry air and a high cloud base to cause the evaporation. It can cause
Stall Speedabrupt. With adequate altitude the aircraft pitches down, regains flying speed and returns to controlled flight. All pilots are trained and practice stall recovery regularly. Stall speed is the minimum speed the aircraft can be flown controllably.
Aircraft fly by having air pass over the wings. If the speed of the aircraft falls below a certain minimum the wings can no longer provide the lift required to support the aircraft. That event is called a stall. This moment of stall can be (often is)
Sink
Gliders fly long distances by locating rising air and climbing in that air. What goes up must come down: descending air is called sink.
Microburstand then further cool by evaporation. This cold air is more dense than the surrounding air and starts to sink. Given favorable conditions this air can accelerate. When this rapidly descending air meets the ground it spreads out to become a sudden
Microbursts are narrow columns of rapidly descending air. They are associated with thunderstorms but can be caused by other sources. The one featured in this report was likely caused by the virga. The snow/rain falling from the clouds above start cool
ASOS
Automated Surface Observing System. This is an automated weather reporting system that continually broadcasts the local (on airport) conditions.
---- End glossary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Four gliders flew out of Rifle on June 9th 2022. We all launched around 11:00 and moved to the north side of the valley. It was tough to find that first good climb, but Shmulik found one, leaving the rest of us floundering low. Eventually we did getaway. Long story short we all ended up going in different directions, all having great flights. They were not without challenges but nothing spooky, just enough work to be rewarding. In a flight of about 600 km, Shmulik made his goal of Duchesne UT, and
There was virga in the area, and it got my attention as Shmulik had warned me on a previous trip to be careful with local virga. I was listening intently to the ASOS for wind or gusts, letting it repeat 5 or 6 times with the exact same report: 9 ktsstraight down the runway; no gusts. Later, as we got ready to land, the same benign report. OK I thought - the virga is clearly a non-issue. As we will learn, it was the whole issue.
There was virga over the airport (elevation 5537 ft) and to the north of the valley, and northeast as well. None of the wisps extended below 11,000 ft (cloud base was approximately 19,000). Cloud cover was scattered. The clouds producing virga were nottowering - they were perhaps a bit bigger than non-producing clouds, but not much. It was a point of interest to me as we don't see a lot of it in the eastern US - I was wondering what drove the difference.
Shmulik and I discussed the landing order: as he was a bit lower we agreed he would go first. After we decided this, we heard a Challenger jet announce “Taxiing to 26 for takeoff”. That was the runway we would use to land.again, with no reply. It’s worth noting that Shmulik had a close call in the past: a jet pulled onto the runway in front of him with no radio call. This near miss was avoided only by the jet taking off immediately in front of him. I am sure he did not
Rifle has a moderate amount of bizjet traffic; not constant but present. We always try to accommodate and be polite citizens. Shmulik called the Challenger and offered to delay but got no reply. I was still high so it was no problem for me. He tried
As he descended, he called that he was in heavy sink and was going to make left traffic for Runway 26 (for which the normal traffic pattern is right). Shortly after this a call came from the Challenger that there was a glider crash.avoid a compressor stall.
I was not sure I’d heard it correctly so I asked for clarification. “There has been a glider crash and we see no movement.” They truly had a front-row seat, as moments before they were hit by a gust so strong that they had rotated their jet to
I then asked if the runway was clear, was told yes, then landed uneventfully into the 9 mph headwinds. I am not sure of the time between our landings - I would guess it was 5 min. The other glider pilots landed without problems, though all could seethe wreckage of our friend’s aircraft which left no doubt as to the outcome.
The last moments of the crash were recorded by an airport security camera. We were allowed to view the footage (but not record it). It showed Shmulik in a moderately steep turn, apparently carrying a lot of speed. In the background you can see dust andgravel being blown by the gust. Then at 90 deg to the runway and 150 to 200 ft you can see the inside wing start to drop and the nose go down. There was no opportunity to recover and it hit the ground hard, thankfully just out of camera view.
The Rifle ASOS recorded a gust of 43 mph from the south: a 100-degree shift in direction, putting it right on his tail.flare and roll out. But he then got hit from behind or descended into winds in excess of 40 kts and perhaps as much as 50, stalling the aircraft and removing any opportunity for control.
My analysis and proposed scenario are as follows:
The virga produced a microburst directly over Shmulik as he was waiting for the jet. He expedited his landing trying to fly out of what was likely epic sink. While his base leg was low it looked high enough to make the runway with plenty of energy to
One of the most difficult aspects of this accident is that, given the information available to the pilot, it is hard to picture what anyone would have done differently. This truly seems like the hand of God. There is discussion in another thread aboutthe yellow triangle. Here is a case that would require 60 over stall speed to maintain even a narrow margin. How many people do you know that would plan to come over the numbers at 100+ on a day that is blowing steady 9 straight down the runway?
As has been noted, Shmulik was a very experienced and skilled pilot. He had more flights and time in gliders from Rifle than anyone. We all want to learn from accidents, especially what were the pilot errors we might avoid. This is a hard one to gaininsight from other than this: Some atmospheric events are bigger than our plastic airplanes.
RRThank you very much for making this information available and these accidents are difficult to understand. OBTP
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:31:08 AM UTC-4, John Good wrote:
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
------------------------------------------------
that understanding I will preface the report with a glossary of pertinent terms. To my pilot readers: feel free to skip this section. I also ask forgiveness for abbreviated explanations: this is not intended as a textbook, but merely to provide contextI originally wrote this to be read by glider pilots. But it became apparent it would also be of interest to non-pilot friends and relatives wishing to better understand how this accident could happen to such a talented and experienced pilot. To aid
clouds to take on the appearance of a jellyfish, with rounded tops and dangling tentacles.Virga
Virga is snow/rain falling from a cloud, that evaporates before it hits the ground. It is a common phenomenon in the western US. We do not see it as often in the east as it takes dry air and a high cloud base to cause the evaporation. It can cause
abrupt. With adequate altitude the aircraft pitches down, regains flying speed and returns to controlled flight. All pilots are trained and practice stall recovery regularly. Stall speed is the minimum speed the aircraft can be flown controllably.Stall Speed
Aircraft fly by having air pass over the wings. If the speed of the aircraft falls below a certain minimum the wings can no longer provide the lift required to support the aircraft. That event is called a stall. This moment of stall can be (often is)
Sink
Gliders fly long distances by locating rising air and climbing in that air. What goes up must come down: descending air is called sink.
cool and then further cool by evaporation. This cold air is more dense than the surrounding air and starts to sink. Given favorable conditions this air can accelerate. When this rapidly descending air meets the ground it spreads out to become a suddenMicroburst
Microbursts are narrow columns of rapidly descending air. They are associated with thunderstorms but can be caused by other sources. The one featured in this report was likely caused by the virga. The snow/rain falling from the clouds above start
ASOS
Automated Surface Observing System. This is an automated weather reporting system that continually broadcasts the local (on airport) conditions.
---- End glossary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
away. Long story short we all ended up going in different directions, all having great flights. They were not without challenges but nothing spooky, just enough work to be rewarding. In a flight of about 600 km, Shmulik made his goal of Duchesne UT, andFour gliders flew out of Rifle on June 9th 2022. We all launched around 11:00 and moved to the north side of the valley. It was tough to find that first good climb, but Shmulik found one, leaving the rest of us floundering low. Eventually we did get
straight down the runway; no gusts. Later, as we got ready to land, the same benign report. OK I thought - the virga is clearly a non-issue. As we will learn, it was the whole issue.There was virga in the area, and it got my attention as Shmulik had warned me on a previous trip to be careful with local virga. I was listening intently to the ASOS for wind or gusts, letting it repeat 5 or 6 times with the exact same report: 9 kts
not towering - they were perhaps a bit bigger than non-producing clouds, but not much. It was a point of interest to me as we don't see a lot of it in the eastern US - I was wondering what drove the difference.There was virga over the airport (elevation 5537 ft) and to the north of the valley, and northeast as well. None of the wisps extended below 11,000 ft (cloud base was approximately 19,000). Cloud cover was scattered. The clouds producing virga were
again, with no reply. It’s worth noting that Shmulik had a close call in the past: a jet pulled onto the runway in front of him with no radio call. This near miss was avoided only by the jet taking off immediately in front of him. I am sure he did notShmulik and I discussed the landing order: as he was a bit lower we agreed he would go first. After we decided this, we heard a Challenger jet announce “Taxiing to 26 for takeoff”. That was the runway we would use to land.
Rifle has a moderate amount of bizjet traffic; not constant but present. We always try to accommodate and be polite citizens. Shmulik called the Challenger and offered to delay but got no reply. I was still high so it was no problem for me. He tried
avoid a compressor stall.As he descended, he called that he was in heavy sink and was going to make left traffic for Runway 26 (for which the normal traffic pattern is right). Shortly after this a call came from the Challenger that there was a glider crash.
I was not sure I’d heard it correctly so I asked for clarification. “There has been a glider crash and we see no movement.” They truly had a front-row seat, as moments before they were hit by a gust so strong that they had rotated their jet to
the wreckage of our friend’s aircraft which left no doubt as to the outcome.I then asked if the runway was clear, was told yes, then landed uneventfully into the 9 mph headwinds. I am not sure of the time between our landings - I would guess it was 5 min. The other glider pilots landed without problems, though all could see
and gravel being blown by the gust. Then at 90 deg to the runway and 150 to 200 ft you can see the inside wing start to drop and the nose go down. There was no opportunity to recover and it hit the ground hard, thankfully just out of camera view.The last moments of the crash were recorded by an airport security camera. We were allowed to view the footage (but not record it). It showed Shmulik in a moderately steep turn, apparently carrying a lot of speed. In the background you can see dust
flare and roll out. But he then got hit from behind or descended into winds in excess of 40 kts and perhaps as much as 50, stalling the aircraft and removing any opportunity for control.The Rifle ASOS recorded a gust of 43 mph from the south: a 100-degree shift in direction, putting it right on his tail.
My analysis and proposed scenario are as follows:
The virga produced a microburst directly over Shmulik as he was waiting for the jet. He expedited his landing trying to fly out of what was likely epic sink. While his base leg was low it looked high enough to make the runway with plenty of energy to
about the yellow triangle. Here is a case that would require 60 over stall speed to maintain even a narrow margin. How many people do you know that would plan to come over the numbers at 100+ on a day that is blowing steady 9 straight down the runway?One of the most difficult aspects of this accident is that, given the information available to the pilot, it is hard to picture what anyone would have done differently. This truly seems like the hand of God. There is discussion in another thread
insight from other than this: Some atmospheric events are bigger than our plastic airplanes.As has been noted, Shmulik was a very experienced and skilled pilot. He had more flights and time in gliders from Rifle than anyone. We all want to learn from accidents, especially what were the pilot errors we might avoid. This is a hard one to gain
RRThank you very much for making this information available and these accidents are difficult to understand. OBTP
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:01:02 PM UTC-5, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:31:08 AM UTC-4, John Good wrote:
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
------------------------------------------------
that understanding I will preface the report with a glossary of pertinent terms. To my pilot readers: feel free to skip this section. I also ask forgiveness for abbreviated explanations: this is not intended as a textbook, but merely to provide contextI originally wrote this to be read by glider pilots. But it became apparent it would also be of interest to non-pilot friends and relatives wishing to better understand how this accident could happen to such a talented and experienced pilot. To aid
clouds to take on the appearance of a jellyfish, with rounded tops and dangling tentacles.Virga
Virga is snow/rain falling from a cloud, that evaporates before it hits the ground. It is a common phenomenon in the western US. We do not see it as often in the east as it takes dry air and a high cloud base to cause the evaporation. It can cause
is) abrupt. With adequate altitude the aircraft pitches down, regains flying speed and returns to controlled flight. All pilots are trained and practice stall recovery regularly. Stall speed is the minimum speed the aircraft can be flown controllably.Stall Speed
Aircraft fly by having air pass over the wings. If the speed of the aircraft falls below a certain minimum the wings can no longer provide the lift required to support the aircraft. That event is called a stall. This moment of stall can be (often
Sink
Gliders fly long distances by locating rising air and climbing in that air. What goes up must come down: descending air is called sink.
cool and then further cool by evaporation. This cold air is more dense than the surrounding air and starts to sink. Given favorable conditions this air can accelerate. When this rapidly descending air meets the ground it spreads out to become a suddenMicroburst
Microbursts are narrow columns of rapidly descending air. They are associated with thunderstorms but can be caused by other sources. The one featured in this report was likely caused by the virga. The snow/rain falling from the clouds above start
ASOS
Automated Surface Observing System. This is an automated weather reporting system that continually broadcasts the local (on airport) conditions.
---- End glossary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
get away. Long story short we all ended up going in different directions, all having great flights. They were not without challenges but nothing spooky, just enough work to be rewarding. In a flight of about 600 km, Shmulik made his goal of Duchesne UT,Four gliders flew out of Rifle on June 9th 2022. We all launched around 11:00 and moved to the north side of the valley. It was tough to find that first good climb, but Shmulik found one, leaving the rest of us floundering low. Eventually we did
kts straight down the runway; no gusts. Later, as we got ready to land, the same benign report. OK I thought - the virga is clearly a non-issue. As we will learn, it was the whole issue.There was virga in the area, and it got my attention as Shmulik had warned me on a previous trip to be careful with local virga. I was listening intently to the ASOS for wind or gusts, letting it repeat 5 or 6 times with the exact same report: 9
not towering - they were perhaps a bit bigger than non-producing clouds, but not much. It was a point of interest to me as we don't see a lot of it in the eastern US - I was wondering what drove the difference.There was virga over the airport (elevation 5537 ft) and to the north of the valley, and northeast as well. None of the wisps extended below 11,000 ft (cloud base was approximately 19,000). Cloud cover was scattered. The clouds producing virga were
tried again, with no reply. It’s worth noting that Shmulik had a close call in the past: a jet pulled onto the runway in front of him with no radio call. This near miss was avoided only by the jet taking off immediately in front of him. I am sure heShmulik and I discussed the landing order: as he was a bit lower we agreed he would go first. After we decided this, we heard a Challenger jet announce “Taxiing to 26 for takeoff”. That was the runway we would use to land.
Rifle has a moderate amount of bizjet traffic; not constant but present. We always try to accommodate and be polite citizens. Shmulik called the Challenger and offered to delay but got no reply. I was still high so it was no problem for me. He
to avoid a compressor stall.As he descended, he called that he was in heavy sink and was going to make left traffic for Runway 26 (for which the normal traffic pattern is right). Shortly after this a call came from the Challenger that there was a glider crash.
I was not sure I’d heard it correctly so I asked for clarification. “There has been a glider crash and we see no movement.” They truly had a front-row seat, as moments before they were hit by a gust so strong that they had rotated their jet
see the wreckage of our friend’s aircraft which left no doubt as to the outcome.I then asked if the runway was clear, was told yes, then landed uneventfully into the 9 mph headwinds. I am not sure of the time between our landings - I would guess it was 5 min. The other glider pilots landed without problems, though all could
and gravel being blown by the gust. Then at 90 deg to the runway and 150 to 200 ft you can see the inside wing start to drop and the nose go down. There was no opportunity to recover and it hit the ground hard, thankfully just out of camera view.The last moments of the crash were recorded by an airport security camera. We were allowed to view the footage (but not record it). It showed Shmulik in a moderately steep turn, apparently carrying a lot of speed. In the background you can see dust
to flare and roll out. But he then got hit from behind or descended into winds in excess of 40 kts and perhaps as much as 50, stalling the aircraft and removing any opportunity for control.The Rifle ASOS recorded a gust of 43 mph from the south: a 100-degree shift in direction, putting it right on his tail.
My analysis and proposed scenario are as follows:
The virga produced a microburst directly over Shmulik as he was waiting for the jet. He expedited his landing trying to fly out of what was likely epic sink. While his base leg was low it looked high enough to make the runway with plenty of energy
about the yellow triangle. Here is a case that would require 60 over stall speed to maintain even a narrow margin. How many people do you know that would plan to come over the numbers at 100+ on a day that is blowing steady 9 straight down the runway?One of the most difficult aspects of this accident is that, given the information available to the pilot, it is hard to picture what anyone would have done differently. This truly seems like the hand of God. There is discussion in another thread
gain insight from other than this: Some atmospheric events are bigger than our plastic airplanes.As has been noted, Shmulik was a very experienced and skilled pilot. He had more flights and time in gliders from Rifle than anyone. We all want to learn from accidents, especially what were the pilot errors we might avoid. This is a hard one to
I note that he was on base leg at 150-200' which is well below standard spin recovery altitude.RRThank you very much for making this information available and these accidents are difficult to understand. OBTP
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:01:02 PM UTC-5, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:31:08 AM UTC-4, John Good wrote:
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
------------------------------------------------
that understanding I will preface the report with a glossary of pertinent terms. To my pilot readers: feel free to skip this section. I also ask forgiveness for abbreviated explanations: this is not intended as a textbook, but merely to provide contextI originally wrote this to be read by glider pilots. But it became apparent it would also be of interest to non-pilot friends and relatives wishing to better understand how this accident could happen to such a talented and experienced pilot. To aid
clouds to take on the appearance of a jellyfish, with rounded tops and dangling tentacles.Virga
Virga is snow/rain falling from a cloud, that evaporates before it hits the ground. It is a common phenomenon in the western US. We do not see it as often in the east as it takes dry air and a high cloud base to cause the evaporation. It can cause
is) abrupt. With adequate altitude the aircraft pitches down, regains flying speed and returns to controlled flight. All pilots are trained and practice stall recovery regularly. Stall speed is the minimum speed the aircraft can be flown controllably.Stall Speed
Aircraft fly by having air pass over the wings. If the speed of the aircraft falls below a certain minimum the wings can no longer provide the lift required to support the aircraft. That event is called a stall. This moment of stall can be (often
Sink
Gliders fly long distances by locating rising air and climbing in that air. What goes up must come down: descending air is called sink.
cool and then further cool by evaporation. This cold air is more dense than the surrounding air and starts to sink. Given favorable conditions this air can accelerate. When this rapidly descending air meets the ground it spreads out to become a suddenMicroburst
Microbursts are narrow columns of rapidly descending air. They are associated with thunderstorms but can be caused by other sources. The one featured in this report was likely caused by the virga. The snow/rain falling from the clouds above start
ASOS
Automated Surface Observing System. This is an automated weather reporting system that continually broadcasts the local (on airport) conditions.
---- End glossary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
get away. Long story short we all ended up going in different directions, all having great flights. They were not without challenges but nothing spooky, just enough work to be rewarding. In a flight of about 600 km, Shmulik made his goal of Duchesne UT,Four gliders flew out of Rifle on June 9th 2022. We all launched around 11:00 and moved to the north side of the valley. It was tough to find that first good climb, but Shmulik found one, leaving the rest of us floundering low. Eventually we did
kts straight down the runway; no gusts. Later, as we got ready to land, the same benign report. OK I thought - the virga is clearly a non-issue. As we will learn, it was the whole issue.There was virga in the area, and it got my attention as Shmulik had warned me on a previous trip to be careful with local virga. I was listening intently to the ASOS for wind or gusts, letting it repeat 5 or 6 times with the exact same report: 9
not towering - they were perhaps a bit bigger than non-producing clouds, but not much. It was a point of interest to me as we don't see a lot of it in the eastern US - I was wondering what drove the difference.There was virga over the airport (elevation 5537 ft) and to the north of the valley, and northeast as well. None of the wisps extended below 11,000 ft (cloud base was approximately 19,000). Cloud cover was scattered. The clouds producing virga were
tried again, with no reply. It’s worth noting that Shmulik had a close call in the past: a jet pulled onto the runway in front of him with no radio call. This near miss was avoided only by the jet taking off immediately in front of him. I am sure heShmulik and I discussed the landing order: as he was a bit lower we agreed he would go first. After we decided this, we heard a Challenger jet announce “Taxiing to 26 for takeoff”. That was the runway we would use to land.
Rifle has a moderate amount of bizjet traffic; not constant but present. We always try to accommodate and be polite citizens. Shmulik called the Challenger and offered to delay but got no reply. I was still high so it was no problem for me. He
to avoid a compressor stall.As he descended, he called that he was in heavy sink and was going to make left traffic for Runway 26 (for which the normal traffic pattern is right). Shortly after this a call came from the Challenger that there was a glider crash.
I was not sure I’d heard it correctly so I asked for clarification. “There has been a glider crash and we see no movement.” They truly had a front-row seat, as moments before they were hit by a gust so strong that they had rotated their jet
see the wreckage of our friend’s aircraft which left no doubt as to the outcome.I then asked if the runway was clear, was told yes, then landed uneventfully into the 9 mph headwinds. I am not sure of the time between our landings - I would guess it was 5 min. The other glider pilots landed without problems, though all could
and gravel being blown by the gust. Then at 90 deg to the runway and 150 to 200 ft you can see the inside wing start to drop and the nose go down. There was no opportunity to recover and it hit the ground hard, thankfully just out of camera view.The last moments of the crash were recorded by an airport security camera. We were allowed to view the footage (but not record it). It showed Shmulik in a moderately steep turn, apparently carrying a lot of speed. In the background you can see dust
to flare and roll out. But he then got hit from behind or descended into winds in excess of 40 kts and perhaps as much as 50, stalling the aircraft and removing any opportunity for control.The Rifle ASOS recorded a gust of 43 mph from the south: a 100-degree shift in direction, putting it right on his tail.
My analysis and proposed scenario are as follows:
The virga produced a microburst directly over Shmulik as he was waiting for the jet. He expedited his landing trying to fly out of what was likely epic sink. While his base leg was low it looked high enough to make the runway with plenty of energy
about the yellow triangle. Here is a case that would require 60 over stall speed to maintain even a narrow margin. How many people do you know that would plan to come over the numbers at 100+ on a day that is blowing steady 9 straight down the runway?One of the most difficult aspects of this accident is that, given the information available to the pilot, it is hard to picture what anyone would have done differently. This truly seems like the hand of God. There is discussion in another thread
gain insight from other than this: Some atmospheric events are bigger than our plastic airplanes.As has been noted, Shmulik was a very experienced and skilled pilot. He had more flights and time in gliders from Rifle than anyone. We all want to learn from accidents, especially what were the pilot errors we might avoid. This is a hard one to
I note that he was on base leg at 150-200' which is well below standard spin recovery altitude.RRThank you very much for making this information available and these accidents are difficult to understand. OBTP
After a long flight in good conditions, Shmulik Dimenstein yesterday died in the crash of his HpH Shark glider, near his home airport at Rifle, Colorado. The cause of the crash is under investigation; possibly relevant is a singular gust of 43 kts (recorded by the airport ASOS near the time of the crash) on an otherwise benign day.
Even a quick look at OLC results over the past several years will show Shmulik’s skill at – and love for – long flights among the mountains of western Colorado (and neighboring states). Less apparent will be his extraordinary hospitality tothose who came to fly gliders at Rifle. He was a valued friend not only to glider pilots but also to the Rifle airport staff and the local FBO.
This is a first-hand account of the crash, by Rick Roelke (who also flew from Rifle CO on June 9):
I had just completed my turn to final and was putting down landing flap when it suddenly went very quiet. Nose and wing dropped before I went to negative flap and forward on the stick. Came out the bottom with 65 kt TAS and 15' and had to climb toclear obstacles.
This chart shows wind in the x and z axes along with altitude and distance in one second intervals:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NeKc6B2S3XQzlZWjBZY2JvNEE/view?usp=drivesdk&resourcekey=0-i1znGTz912WvAoscv73RhQ
Some similarities to the Gleim diagram referenced by Darren, but no big clouds.
Sometimes it's appropriate to act in a non standard way.
Sometimes it's appropriate to act in a non-standard way.
I was running from a thunderstorm in Colorado decades ago and, after overflying the airport, turned downwind and base when the outflow hit.
On base I was at maximum speed for flaps and landing gear and, rather
than turn final and accept that humongous cross wind, I simply landed straight ahead, across the runway, infield, taxiway, and apron. I then
flew the glider on the ground until the storm passed.
I'm not saying that Schmuel had any chance of saving himself, just a reminder that there is more than one way to get safely on the ground.
Dan
5J
I've stood on the ground at Rieti and watched thunderstorms over mountains to the west. Then the downdraft from these crossed the site and not long later fired off new storms over the nearer mountains to the east. Then those too produced downdrafts,creating about 30 or 40 knots crosswind on the airfield, coinciding with arrival of the earliest finishers.
When people are coming in at maybe 120 knots or more, maybe they don't notice quite how strong the wind is, and only a couple elected to turn gently right, let the wind drift them out a bit, then left and land across the usual runway direction. For awhile I was worried one of the world's most experienced coaches was going to either spin from his 210 degree final turn, or undershoot and land on a hangar. Not much airbrake.
On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 22:03:43 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sometimes it's appropriate to act in a non-standard way.
I was running from a thunderstorm in Colorado decades ago and, after overflying the airport, turned downwind and base when the outflow hit.
On base I was at maximum speed for flaps and landing gear and, rather
than turn final and accept that humongous cross wind, I simply landed straight ahead, across the runway, infield, taxiway, and apron. I then flew the glider on the ground until the storm passed.
I'm not saying that Schmuel had any chance of saving himself, just a reminder that there is more than one way to get safely on the ground.
Dan
5J
carry extra airspeed in the pattern, A LOT of extra airspeed (fly the pattern at 90 kt - that speed can be bled off quickly on short final).
Additional relevantly-excellent info snipped...
If such a tail gust DOES hit you, it is vital that you push the noseJust a 'somewhat anal' modification to the excerpted bit below, most-explicitly the sentence-ending phrase following the "...and...":
down and dive at the ground. This will feel VERY uncomfortable but
is the one thing maneuver you have at your disposal. Failure to do
this WILL result in a stall/spin low to the ground, which is non-recoverable, so avoiding this outcome is the top priority (this happened to Shmulik). Note that you will already be dropping fast
when this happens and the ground will be rushing up at you, so your instinct, which must be fought, will be to pull up on the stick. An important thing to remember is that close to the ground the vertical
air motion will flatten out and your vertical down rate will cease, although you will still have a tailwind. You will also have ground
effect in your favor (if you are within a wingspan of the ground).
The area of a microburst is small, and you have a good chance of
flying out of it.
An important thing to remember is that close to the ground theMurphy's a powerful guy, and inertia is real. Ask the smashed bugs on
vertical air motion will flatten out and your vertical down rate will cease,
your vehicle's windshield how well object-induced flow-diversion worked
for them.
My point in picking this nit isn't to nitpick, but to attempt to do all
I can to encourage fellow glider pilots to analyze the meteorology &
physics of downbursts (aka 'microbursts') ruthlessly-cold-bloodedly,
before willy-nilly accepting some over-simplified and demonstrably false personal rationale justifying the risks they're taking by indulging in soaring.
FWIW, I happily, willingly - and, eventually, ruthlessly-coldbloodedly - enjoyed XC soaring (mostly in the intermountain western U.S.) for 37
years, which included encountering 3 downbursts in landing patterns -
and 'getting away with it.' After the first one (on a not-real-high-cloudbase, local-survival-only, sort of fall soaring day),
I became a "virga coward!" who actively strove to land only after days
went quiescent...and yet, I "got targeted" two more times. I was luckier than Shmuel in that each encounter with the downbursts occurred when I
had >2,700' agl ground clearances...with zero subsequent options for
waiting for the situation to improve.
It appears to me Shmuel Dimentstein was less fortunate than I was. (See
also Tom Serkowski's "It happened to me!" downburst-encounter tale
earlier in this thread...from which I concluded Tom came about as
knowingly close to downburst-associated-disaster as any
adrenaline-junkie pilot might wish for...and he ain't that sort of pilot!)
While - in *some* instances - change in the air's direction from
vertically downward to horizontal may save your downburst-encapsulated-bacon, to therapeutically count on it doing so in *all* cases is to be accepting a demonstrably false rationale as gospel. Fervently wishing something will-be true won't make it so. And if that ruthless-cold-bloodedness helps any Joe Glider Pilot to be less
complacent about his virga/T-storm/downburst-avoiding philosophies, it
will - IMO - improve JGP's future chances of avoiding/surviving any such encounters.
I did not know Shmuel Dimentstein, but from everything I've read about
him and his accident, I place it into the rare "fate bucket" (as
contrasted to the far larger/more-filled "stupid-pilot-tricks bucket").
A "There but for the grace of God..." sort of accident. May he RIP and
may his family and friends gain what comfort they can from its circumstances, which appear-to-me to leave his reputation as a pilot
free from after-the-fact "coulda-woulda" second-guessing.
Respectfully,
Bob W.
Good advice, Tom, but the max gear speed in the Stemme is 76 KIAS.
Above that you risk tearing off the gear doors (ask me how I know).
Diving at the ground is tough, but necessary. I was once rolled over by
a rotor while attempting to enter wave and the trees looked really big
on the side of the mountain.
Schmuel gave me the same tour and advice last year when I went to Rifle.
All good information.
Dan
5J
On 6/16/22 11:23, 2G wrote:
carry extra airspeed in the pattern, A LOT of extra airspeed (fly the pattern at 90 kt - that speed can be bled off quickly on short final).
If such a tail gust DOES hit you, it is vital that you push the nose
down and dive at the ground. This will feel VERY uncomfortable but
is the one thing maneuver you have at your disposal. Failure to do
this WILL result in a stall/spin low to the ground, which is
non-recoverable, so avoiding this outcome is the top priority (this
happened to Shmulik). Note that you will already be dropping fast
when this happens and the ground will be rushing up at you, so your
instinct, which must be fought, will be to pull up on the stick. An
important thing to remember is that close to the ground the vertical
air motion will flatten out and your vertical down rate will cease,
although you will still have a tailwind. You will also have ground
effect in your favor (if you are within a wingspan of the ground).
The area of a microburst is small, and you have a good chance of
flying out of it.
An important thing to remember is that close to the ground the
vertical air motion will flatten out and your vertical down rate will
cease,
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 11:35:07 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good advice, Tom, but the max gear speed in the Stemme is 76 KIAS.
Above that you risk tearing off the gear doors (ask me how I know).
Diving at the ground is tough, but necessary. I was once rolled over by
a rotor while attempting to enter wave and the trees looked really big
on the side of the mountain.
Schmuel gave me the same tour and advice last year when I went to Rifle.
All good information.
Dan
5J
On 6/16/22 11:23, 2G wrote:
carry extra airspeed in the pattern, A LOT of extra airspeed (fly the pattern at 90 kt - that speed can be bled off quickly on short final).
Of course, you have to follow the max speeds for the particular glider. Still, 76 kts is better than 56. In your case, you could delay gear extension until on final. Yes, you would have to do a last, albeit abbreviated, landing checklist while on final.
Tom
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 2:55:51 AM UTC-6, andy l wrote:creating about 30 or 40 knots crosswind on the airfield, coinciding with arrival of the earliest finishers.
I've stood on the ground at Rieti and watched thunderstorms over mountains to the west. Then the downdraft from these crossed the site and not long later fired off new storms over the nearer mountains to the east. Then those too produced downdrafts,
while I was worried one of the world's most experienced coaches was going to either spin from his 210 degree final turn, or undershoot and land on a hangar. Not much airbrake.When people are coming in at maybe 120 knots or more, maybe they don't notice quite how strong the wind is, and only a couple elected to turn gently right, let the wind drift them out a bit, then left and land across the usual runway direction. For a
of you had normal winds doesn't mean that you will. We fly in conditions during which convection is present, and land most often when dissipation is occurring, the most likely time for microbursts.On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 22:03:43 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sometimes it's appropriate to act in a non-standard way.
I was running from a thunderstorm in Colorado decades ago and, after overflying the airport, turned downwind and base when the outflow hit. On base I was at maximum speed for flaps and landing gear and, rather than turn final and accept that humongous cross wind, I simply landed straight ahead, across the runway, infield, taxiway, and apron. I then flew the glider on the ground until the storm passed.
I'm not saying that Schmuel had any chance of saving himself, just a reminder that there is more than one way to get safely on the ground.
Microbursts are extreme cases of wind shear, which have taken down heavy airliners (L1011 at DFW, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191). This AC was issued by the FAA as a response, in part, to this accident:Dan
5J
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC00-54.pdf While it is now 34 years old, all the info in it is still very relevant. Microbursts can occur anywhere but are much more prevalent in Colorado and Florida. The time duration of microbursts is short, 10 to 20 minutes, so just because the guy in front
You have three primary tools at your disposal to deal with microbursts:land and the conditions for microburst MAY be present, carry extra airspeed in the pattern, A LOT of extra airspeed (fly the pattern at 90 kt - that speed can be bled off quickly on short final). It would take a tail gust of 50 kt to stall you at this
1. Avoidance
2. Airspeed
3. Reaction
Since the lifetime of microbursts is relatively short, if you have ANY suspicion that it is happening, or about to happen, wait it out. Microbursts likely will kick up dust on the ground, so any indication of blowing dust is a tell. Once you commit to
If such a tail gust DOES hit you, it is vital that you push the nose down and dive at the ground. This will feel VERY uncomfortable but is the one thing maneuver you have at your disposal. Failure to do this WILL result in a stall/spin low to theground, which is non-recoverable, so avoiding this outcome is the top priority (this happened to Shmulik). Note that you will already be dropping fast when this happens and the ground will be rushing up at you, so your instinct, which must be fought,
TomMicrobursts are not rare here in Colorado. East of the mountains we had many, generally in June or July, during family picnics at my father-in-law's place. Light winds would increase to 50-60 mph for about 20-30 minutes then return to calm. I've found
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 2:55:51 AM UTC-6, andy l wrote:
I've stood on the ground at Rieti and watched thunderstorms over
mountains to the west. Then the downdraft from these crossed the site
and not long later fired off new storms over the nearer mountains to
the east. Then those too produced downdrafts, creating about 30 or 40
knots crosswind on the airfield, coinciding with arrival of the
earliest finishers.
When people are coming in at maybe 120 knots or more, maybe they don't
notice quite how strong the wind is, and only a couple elected to turn
gently right, let the wind drift them out a bit, then left and land
across the usual runway direction. For a while I was worried one of the
world's most experienced coaches was going to either spin from his 210
degree final turn, or undershoot and land on a hangar. Not much
airbrake.
On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 22:03:43 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sometimes it's appropriate to act in a non-standard way.
I was running from a thunderstorm in Colorado decades ago and, after
overflying the airport, turned downwind and base when the outflow
hit.
On base I was at maximum speed for flaps and landing gear and, rather
than turn final and accept that humongous cross wind, I simply landed
straight ahead, across the runway, infield, taxiway, and apron. I
then flew the glider on the ground until the storm passed.
I'm not saying that Schmuel had any chance of saving himself, just a
reminder that there is more than one way to get safely on the ground.
Dan 5J
Microbursts are extreme cases of wind shear, which have taken down heavy airliners (L1011 at DFW, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191). This AC was
issued by the FAA as a response, in part, to this accident: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC00-54.pdf
While it is now 34 years old, all the info in it is still very relevant. Microbursts can occur anywhere but are much more prevalent in Colorado
and Florida. The time duration of microbursts is short, 10 to 20
minutes, so just because the guy in front of you had normal winds
doesn't mean that you will. We fly in conditions during which convection
is present, and land most often when dissipation is occurring, the most likely time for microbursts.
You have three primary tools at your disposal to deal with microbursts:
1. Avoidance 2. Airspeed 3. Reaction Since the lifetime of microbursts
is relatively short, if you have ANY suspicion that it is happening, or
about to happen, wait it out. Microbursts likely will kick up dust on
the ground, so any indication of blowing dust is a tell. Once you commit
to land and the conditions for microburst MAY be present, carry extra airspeed in the pattern, A LOT of extra airspeed (fly the pattern at 90
kt - that speed can be bled off quickly on short final). It would take a
tail gust of 50 kt to stall you at this airspeed.
If such a tail gust DOES hit you, it is vital that you push the nose
down and dive at the ground. This will feel VERY uncomfortable but is
the one thing maneuver you have at your disposal. Failure to do this
WILL result in a stall/spin low to the ground, which is non-recoverable,
so avoiding this outcome is the top priority (this happened to Shmulik).
Note that you will already be dropping fast when this happens and the
ground will be rushing up at you, so your instinct, which must be
fought, will be to pull up on the stick. An important thing to remember
is that close to the ground the vertical air motion will flatten out and
your vertical down rate will cease, although you will still have a
tailwind. You will also have ground effect in your favor (if you are
within a wingspan of the ground). The area of a microburst is small, and
you have a good chance of flying out of it.
Tom
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
Excellent work by Clemen. I believe he explained an incident I had years ago. Luck was with me that day.personally that perished in a glider crash since 1973.
I have to ponder his point about the increase risk of fly gliders. While statistics might prove him correct, I feel safer in a glider than I do driving on the interstate…i.e…I-95 between Palm Beach and Miami. Shmulik is the first person I knew
RFor me, over four decades, several glider pilots I knew, or knew of, have died in glider
On 6/28/2022 4:06 AM, R wrote:personally that perished in a glider crash since 1973.
Excellent work by Clemen. I believe he explained an incident I had years ago. Luck was with me that day.
I have to ponder his point about the increase risk of fly gliders. While statistics might prove him correct, I feel safer in a glider than I do driving on the interstate…i.e…I-95 between Palm Beach and Miami. Shmulik is the first person I knew
RFor me, over four decades, several glider pilots I knew, or knew of, have died in glider
accidents. I don't know of any that died while driving a car. There was one that died as a
pedestrian, another that died while hiking, and one of cancer, but glider crashes have
claimed more than those causes combined.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Yeh, the key word is ‘personally’ known. A few in power planes. None by car.
I soloed a bunch of 14 year olds, no concerns. I wouldn’t let them go out on the highway.
R
Yeh, the key word is ‘personally’ known. A few in power planes. None by car.Please don’t claim that the driving to the airport is the most dangerous part of flying. Soaring is 2 order of magnitude more dangerous. I can’t recall anyone I know who died in a car accident, yet on average one person I personally knew dies in
I soloed a bunch of 14 year olds, no concerns. I wouldn’t let them go out on the highway.
R
On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 3:28:17 PM UTC-7, R wrote:glider accident every other year.
Yeh, the key word is ‘personally’ known. A few in power planes. None by car.Please don’t claim that the driving to the airport is the most dangerous part of flying. Soaring is 2 order of magnitude more dangerous. I can’t recall anyone I know who died in a car accident, yet on average one person I personally knew dies in
I soloed a bunch of 14 year olds, no concerns. I wouldn’t let them go out on the highway.
R
Perhaps if all the pilots you personally know are those in your gliding club it is quiet possible you get the wrong impression.R gets a bit carried away at times and dreams, I must agree Ramy, I can name five people that I have flown with and knew that have perished in a glider. Robbie Robertson, Clem Bowman, Doug Gaines, Maylen Wier, Tom Irlbeck, four of these pilots were from
This is a wonderful sport, but our statistics sucks.
Ramy
As if we don't have enugh invisible hazards, I ran across this video posted on Facebook in a hang gliding group. It is about wake turbulence behind helicopters.
I have always worried about the outflow of helicopters that are hovering, but not so much classic wake turbulence. Both Rifle and my home airport have some heavy Helo traffic (literally heavy, not busy). just something to be aware of...
https://youtu.be/9YvL62T3Hm0
Rick
Well, I race all over the SE since 2003, everyone is still alive. If I applied Ramy math…..I’ve been in gliders since 1973…49 years / 2 = 24 killed in gliders that I would know personally…..nope. Just one.Henry, you crack me up, you cannot even get the frequency correct, it's Schmuck you idiot, can't you spell?
All my students , hundreds of them, are still ticking. Only one of them actually crashed. A king air pilot.
Maybe it’s because all the pilots I know personally are exceptional pilots. The best of the best.
Anyway, who’s this ‘Purist Bob’ Youngblood smuck insulting everybody? Always writing about how many tows he makes, Trashing instructors for his poor towing skills.
I read he’s nice to the kids. That’s great. Good to know he has a heart. Again a great job by RR and Clemen….I learned and believe I am a better pilot with that knowledge.
R
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released.
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
Excellent analysis and lessons by Clemens. Everyone should read it. I hope it will make its way to soaring magazines and publications.
Ramy
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote:
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released.
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
One thing I took away from the discussion was there was no mention of
simply rolling out and landing into whatever is there. Granted Schmuel
was very quickly in an untenable spot but, hopefully the next time
something like this happens at a somewhat higher altitude, the "victim"
may have the choice to land straight ahead rather than wrap it up into a stall/spin.
Like Bob Hoover said, "Fly it as far into the crash as you can." That
will very likely be survivable whereas a crash likely won't.
Dan
5J
On 6/29/22 23:51, Ramy wrote:
Excellent analysis and lessons by Clemens. Everyone should read it. I hope it will make its way to soaring magazines and publications.
Ramy
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote:
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot >>
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released. >>
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
One thing I took away from the discussion was there was no mention of
simply rolling out and landing into whatever is there. Granted Schmuel
was very quickly in an untenable spot but, hopefully the next time
something like this happens at a somewhat higher altitude, the "victim"
may have the choice to land straight ahead rather than wrap it up into a stall/spin.
Like Bob Hoover said, "Fly it as far into the crash as you can." That
will very likely be survivable whereas a crash likely won't.
Dan
5J
On 6/29/22 23:51, Ramy wrote:
Excellent analysis and lessons by Clemens. Everyone should read it. I hope it will make its way to soaring magazines and publications.
Ramy
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote:
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot >>
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released. >>
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
One thing I took away from the discussion was there was no mention ofI think that is the best assessment that I have ever heard, Hoover knew a few things.OBTP
simply rolling out and landing into whatever is there. Granted Schmuel
was very quickly in an untenable spot but, hopefully the next time
something like this happens at a somewhat higher altitude, the "victim"
may have the choice to land straight ahead rather than wrap it up into a stall/spin.
Like Bob Hoover said, "Fly it as far into the crash as you can." That
will very likely be survivable whereas a crash likely won't.
Dan
5J
On 6/29/22 23:51, Ramy wrote:
Excellent analysis and lessons by Clemens. Everyone should read it. I hope it will make its way to soaring magazines and publications.
Ramy
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote:
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot >>
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released. >>
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 3:51:58 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:very abrupt and powerful when you get hit. I've not had it happen in a glider. I'd recommend anyone with the access to get a simulator ride and experience windshear from the safety of a box. I'll add that when you see it happen in real life the sensory
One thing I took away from the discussion was there was no mention of
simply rolling out and landing into whatever is there. Granted Schmuel
was very quickly in an untenable spot but, hopefully the next time
something like this happens at a somewhat higher altitude, the "victim"
may have the choice to land straight ahead rather than wrap it up into a
stall/spin.
Like Bob Hoover said, "Fly it as far into the crash as you can." That
will very likely be survivable whereas a crash likely won't.
Dan
5J
On 6/29/22 23:51, Ramy wrote:
Excellent analysis and lessons by Clemens. Everyone should read it. I hope it will make its way to soaring magazines and publications.
Ramy
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote: >>>> Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot >>>>
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released. >>>>
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
Unfortunately there usually isn't any airspeed left to stop the stall or spin. Don't mix up my words here. I meant there simply isn't any airflow over the controls to lower the nose, to put opposing rudder in, or to try to keep it right side up. It's
We have all the data we need for our glide instruments to alert us to windshear. Groundspeed reducing while airspeed increasing and a sensation of "gaining performance" (a climb to maintain speed or stick feel). Then the inevitable decrease in airspeedgain, continued decrease in groundspeed as a downward sensation occurs. We have the technology even in a simple glide computer to alert us to windshear - and I'd be happy to help develop a feature in LXNAV instruments (since I have one) to make a full
I've personally experienced these in airliners and almost every time we as a crew are surprised by the conditions that created such a downdraft. In Florida even a tiny little shower shaft is suspect. Thankfully we went around and you are only readingabout it now. It didn't look powerful by any standard. It was tiny, could see through the rain shaft, and no outflow dust visible (we're in Florida after all).
If you get a rush of airspeed and have to climb to maintain speed and the groundspeed decreases - one way or another that gain will be soon lost, so lower the nose and regain your groundspeed prior to the event. Our Airbus manages a minimum groundspeedon approach and will increase our approach speed all the way up to nearly flap speed limit to maintain that target groundspeed.
We should do the same. If the wind looks calm: your ground speed shouldn't be lower than triangle speed. If it's 10-20kts down the runway - then your groundspeed should never be less than triangle speed IMO. I don't fly 1/2 the windspeed on top oftriangle, I fly 1:1 over triangle speed for wind for this reason is because I want the same Total energy.
I think I'm going to make a special page (until LXNAV can do something) that shows the groundspeed and TAS one on top of each other, just for the pattern. Not that I'll be glancing at that very much, but it'll maybe clue me in if I feel that gain ofperformance feeling, can glance at the ground vs TAS for a diverging split in the two.
We have all the data we need for our glide instruments to alert us to windshear...
On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:25:49 AM UTC-7, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:is a great write-up by Clemens Ceipek: https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-of-dying-doing-what-we-love/ The best alternative analyses that I have come across agree with his. Like Clemens, I think risk per hour is by far the best metric. That said, most of
We have all the data we need for our glide instruments to alert us to windshear...
JBL, good ideas for sure, but there is one case that perhaps you are not considering.
If you enter under the microburst, you will not have the initial increase airspeed/decrease groundspeed that you described.
Perhaps it would be better if I said "If the microburst hits you from above".
If that is the case, no warning would be possible, other than the vario dropping away.
BTW, LX Nav already has a headwind/tailwind component as a Nav box, and it is on my landing screen, so you wouldn't need to do the math in the air.
------------------
On another note, Ramy is correct on the statistics of soaring, in that it is far more dangerous than driving. The "driving to the airport" meme really needs to die. Unfortunately, all the personal anecdotes only lead to personal biased opinions. Here
I did not know Shmulik Dimenstein, and based on what I have read here, that is a loss to me, as he was truly a great person to know. My condolences to his friends and family. In my case, I know that soaring is dangerous, but I still choose to do it,and even recently became a proud Dad as my 19-year-old daughter recently just soloed in gliders. She too is aware of the hazards.
In 100 years or less, everyone reading this will pass away as well. Most importantly, is how we choose to live in the meantime. Do what you love to do, share it with those around you, be honest to yourself and others about the risks, and do what youcan to mitigate them when you can.
And one last piece of advice that I would give to any friend willing to listen: try to live your life as Shmulik did, so that you will be remembered and appreciated by those around you.
Clemen’s analysis of Shmulik’s accident:
https://chessintheair.com/invisible-microburst-kills-expert-glider-pilot
Also, I understand that the NTSB is releasing their preliminary accident report on June 28 around 3 pm eastern time. Here are the instructions on how to find it:
The preliminary report will be available in the NTSB Aviation Accident Database. Please follow these instructions to search for the report:
Visit: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/keyword-search
Click the right side of the search box to open a drop down
Click “Investigations”
Input the accident number CEN22FA240 into the second search window
Click the “Search” button on the right or hit the “Enter” key on your keyboard
Once the search concludes, the accident investigation record will include a link to a PDF copy of the Preliminary Report
The final report will take up to two years to be completed and released.
Jim J6
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:56:45 AM UTC-6, R wrote:
This is a shocker. He was highly experienced and I hope the riddle is answered so that I (we) can learn from it.
I had the privilege of joining the regulars at Rifle last June for a short visit to learn and experience mountain flying and Shumlik was the Host and a mentor.
R
Chuck, very well said. My thoughts exactly.is a great write-up by Clemens Ceipek: https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-of-dying-doing-what-we-love/ The best alternative analyses that I have come across agree with his. Like Clemens, I think risk per hour is by far the best metric. That said, most of
Ramy
On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 8:05:44 AM UTC-7, chuck.d...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:25:49 AM UTC-7, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
We have all the data we need for our glide instruments to alert us to windshear...
JBL, good ideas for sure, but there is one case that perhaps you are not considering.
If you enter under the microburst, you will not have the initial increase airspeed/decrease groundspeed that you described.
Perhaps it would be better if I said "If the microburst hits you from above".
If that is the case, no warning would be possible, other than the vario dropping away.
BTW, LX Nav already has a headwind/tailwind component as a Nav box, and it is on my landing screen, so you wouldn't need to do the math in the air.
------------------
On another note, Ramy is correct on the statistics of soaring, in that it is far more dangerous than driving. The "driving to the airport" meme really needs to die. Unfortunately, all the personal anecdotes only lead to personal biased opinions. Here
and even recently became a proud Dad as my 19-year-old daughter recently just soloed in gliders. She too is aware of the hazards.I did not know Shmulik Dimenstein, and based on what I have read here, that is a loss to me, as he was truly a great person to know. My condolences to his friends and family. In my case, I know that soaring is dangerous, but I still choose to do it,
can to mitigate them when you can.In 100 years or less, everyone reading this will pass away as well. Most importantly, is how we choose to live in the meantime. Do what you love to do, share it with those around you, be honest to yourself and others about the risks, and do what you
And one last piece of advice that I would give to any friend willing to listen: try to live your life as Shmulik did, so that you will be remembered and appreciated by those around you.
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