Getting back to soaring related topics, I as a tow pilot have had a few interesting tows, and the most dangerous tows that I have experienced have come at the hands of CFIG's, and in one instance two CFIG's were in the towed sailplane. Why would a CFIG,let a student get so far out of control at an altitude of less than 100 feet?
I personally think the tow pilot knows more about what is going on in the towed glider than the occupants of the said glider. Self launch guys please don't enlighten us purist with your opinions, yet go ahead, it is a free country. Old Bob, The Purist
On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 3:12:08 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:CFIG, let a student get so far out of control at an altitude of less than 100 feet?
Getting back to soaring related topics, I as a tow pilot have had a few interesting tows, and the most dangerous tows that I have experienced have come at the hands of CFIG's, and in one instance two CFIG's were in the towed sailplane. Why would a
Dumb and Dumber, it was a show in and of itself!!!I personally think the tow pilot knows more about what is going on in the towed glider than the occupants of the said glider. Self launch guys please don't enlighten us purist with your opinions, yet go ahead, it is a free country. Old Bob, The PuristSome instructors wait, in my experience, too long for the student to recognize and correct out of position conditions.
When this happens, I take control, fix the problem , and return control. Takeoffs are hard to learn and take some time. Some instructors know this and try to start sooner.
My rule of thumb is that the student needs to have very good position control up high before I let the student do it low.
2 CFIG's- who was flying?
Grumpy Tow pilot/Instructor UH
Getting back to soaring related topics, I as a tow pilot have had a few interesting tows, and the most dangerous tows that I have experienced have come at the hands of CFIG's, and in one instance two CFIG's were in the towed sailplane. Why would a CFIG,let a student get so far out of control at an altitude of less than 100 feet?
I personally think the tow pilot knows more about what is going on in the towed glider than the occupants of the said glider. Self launch guys please don't enlighten us purist with your opinions, yet go ahead, it is a free country. Old Bob, The Purist
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
Dan
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure. I'mDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:m glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure. I'DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
Having done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy thattook over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I was not
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 8:24:42 PM UTC-6, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure.DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I wasHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy
Hey Old Bobby, one thing I CAN'T possibly do is KILL THE TOW PILOT!!!!! Well, I guess I could have a mid-air with a brainless tow pilot...
Tom
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 8:24:42 PM UTC-6, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure.DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I wasHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy
Hey Old Bobby, one thing I CAN'T possibly do is KILL THE TOW PILOT!!!!! Well, I guess I could have a mid-air with a brainless tow pilot...Uncle Tom, I have been told that pilots that know you stay well clear of your path, they have concerns flying near you, everyone else should also. Old Bob, The Purist
Tom
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:m glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure. I'DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
Having done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy thattook over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I was not
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum for sure.DanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I wasHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy
I averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I had to duckdown to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusual harmonic
I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump him. Hisbuddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.
Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights are on butnobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me. Recovering
Remember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow pilot out
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:05:03 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:sure. I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum forDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I wasHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy
duck down to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusual harmonicI averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I had to
His buddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump him.
but nobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me.Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights are on
out there should be making it very clear to each glider pilot as to what is expected. Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle. Speaking for myself I should have pulled the handle aRemember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow pilot
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
While there is never going to be a foolproof way of eliminating kiting situations, anything that can be done to keep the holes in the cheese
from lining up should be implemented.
I would like to contribute to the well-being of the sport's valuable tow pilots by suggesting that all glider rating candidates fully qualify to fly takeoffs and aerotows in Condor (simulation) before being allowed to perform those maneuvers in anactual glider.
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 4:10:03 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:sure. I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:05:03 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum forDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, I wasHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a guy
duck down to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusual harmonicI averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I had to
His buddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump him.
but nobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me.Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights are on
out there should be making it very clear to each glider pilot as to what is expected. Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle. Speaking for myself I should have pulled the handle aRemember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow pilot
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
All tow pilots should be involved in the instructions to a student regarding release. I launched a lot of gliders, chased rope and hooked them up when I was taking lessons. I listened to the preflights between instructor and student and you would hear “if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release.” THIS was lacking in my opinion. A student should be told WHY to release, “BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT KILL THE TOW PILOT. “
After my last severe kiting incident I continued to tow for a few weeks before my “dismissal.’’ I would ask students, “what’s the most important thing you can do on tow.” Of course the answer should have been “to keep my eyes on the towplane and release if I lost sight.” NO ONE gave me this answer in any way shape or form. In my opinion the information is just not sinking in. There is a difference between telling someone what to do and TEACHING someone what to do. IF it had been
My suggestion would be to implement a “release” situation just like a rope break at low altitude. The instructor could say “We just lost sight of the tow plane.” The student would then be REQUIRED to release on his or her own.first time she violently jerked my tail to the right. She was out of sight on my right, not to the left and in the mirror where she was supposed to be. Had I done so and had she not made it back to the runway, who knows what might have happened?
While there is never going to be a foolproof way of eliminating kiting situations, anything that can be done to keep the holes in the cheese from lining up should be implemented.
I fully understand what you mean when you said "Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle." I had a 15 year old girl on the end of the string and should have pulled the handle the
Walt ConnellyI have been towing a lot of new glider pilots lately, our club seems to be the talk of aviation on the Treasure Coast, which is great for the sport. On every solo flight I have made clear that there is to be a very precise expectation, before takeoff I
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 6:18:37 PM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:sure. I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 4:10:03 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:05:03 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrum forDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
guy that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, IHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a
to duck down to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusualI averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I had
His buddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump him.
on but nobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me.Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights are
pilot out there should be making it very clear to each glider pilot as to what is expected. Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle. Speaking for myself I should have pulled theRemember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
hear “if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release.” THIS was lacking in my opinion. A student should be told WHY to release, “BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT KILL THE TOW PILOT. “All tow pilots should be involved in the instructions to a student regarding release. I launched a lot of gliders, chased rope and hooked them up when I was taking lessons. I listened to the preflights between instructor and student and you would
plane and release if I lost sight.” NO ONE gave me this answer in any way shape or form. In my opinion the information is just not sinking in. There is a difference between telling someone what to do and TEACHING someone what to do. IF it had beenAfter my last severe kiting incident I continued to tow for a few weeks before my “dismissal.’’ I would ask students, “what’s the most important thing you can do on tow.” Of course the answer should have been “to keep my eyes on the tow
first time she violently jerked my tail to the right. She was out of sight on my right, not to the left and in the mirror where she was supposed to be. Had I done so and had she not made it back to the runway, who knows what might have happened?My suggestion would be to implement a “release” situation just like a rope break at low altitude. The instructor could say “We just lost sight of the tow plane.” The student would then be REQUIRED to release on his or her own.
While there is never going to be a foolproof way of eliminating kiting situations, anything that can be done to keep the holes in the cheese from lining up should be implemented.
I fully understand what you mean when you said "Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle." I had a 15 year old girl on the end of the string and should have pulled the handle the
make radio contact and describe what my departure plan is and I also ask the student to confirm that the spoilers and canopy are closed and locked. When there is no reply I simply pull the release and exit the towplane . Old Bob, The PuristWalt ConnellyI have been towing a lot of new glider pilots lately, our club seems to be the talk of aviation on the Treasure Coast, which is great for the sport. On every solo flight I have made clear that there is to be a very precise expectation, before takeoff I
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:27:56 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:for sure. I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 6:18:37 PM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 4:10:03 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:05:03 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrumDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
guy that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, IHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from a
to duck down to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusualI averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I had
him. His buddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump
are on but nobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me.Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights
pilot out there should be making it very clear to each glider pilot as to what is expected. Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle. Speaking for myself I should have pulled theRemember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
hear “if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release.” THIS was lacking in my opinion. A student should be told WHY to release, “BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT KILL THE TOW PILOT. “All tow pilots should be involved in the instructions to a student regarding release. I launched a lot of gliders, chased rope and hooked them up when I was taking lessons. I listened to the preflights between instructor and student and you would
tow plane and release if I lost sight.” NO ONE gave me this answer in any way shape or form. In my opinion the information is just not sinking in. There is a difference between telling someone what to do and TEACHING someone what to do. IF it had beenAfter my last severe kiting incident I continued to tow for a few weeks before my “dismissal.’’ I would ask students, “what’s the most important thing you can do on tow.” Of course the answer should have been “to keep my eyes on the
first time she violently jerked my tail to the right. She was out of sight on my right, not to the left and in the mirror where she was supposed to be. Had I done so and had she not made it back to the runway, who knows what might have happened?My suggestion would be to implement a “release” situation just like a rope break at low altitude. The instructor could say “We just lost sight of the tow plane.” The student would then be REQUIRED to release on his or her own.
While there is never going to be a foolproof way of eliminating kiting situations, anything that can be done to keep the holes in the cheese from lining up should be implemented.
I fully understand what you mean when you said "Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle." I had a 15 year old girl on the end of the string and should have pulled the handle the
I make radio contact and describe what my departure plan is and I also ask the student to confirm that the spoilers and canopy are closed and locked. When there is no reply I simply pull the release and exit the towplane . Old Bob, The PuristWalt ConnellyI have been towing a lot of new glider pilots lately, our club seems to be the talk of aviation on the Treasure Coast, which is great for the sport. On every solo flight I have made clear that there is to be a very precise expectation, before takeoff
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
In my USAF days I studied Taekwondo and Judo. I also boxed and wrestled in the base gyms which held classes in almost everything, I was a gym rat, there almost every day. Anyone who has even remotely dabbled in the martial arts will realize thatREPETITION is how things are accomplished, muscle memory requires movements to be done time and time again, slowly at first and then more rapidly as muscle memory kicks in. I studied Krav Maga for a year until I hurt my back, a 71 year old wresting a 21
Flying also requires muscle memory, actions must be so ingrained that they are accomplished instantaneously, reacting to the situation immediately. Again, TELLING someone what to do is not the same as teaching, teaching requires emphasis and repetition.If all the instructor is doing is TELLING, he is not teaching. By the time a student solos, many actions must be committed to an instinctive memory if things are going to be done safely. It is truly amazing how infrequently accidents happen but when
If a student can't reply to a radio command immediately and appropriately, should they be going solo?Let me add something I have voiced before in other venues...I have been shocked by instructors at multiple venues around the USA briefing aerotow students to look around for traffic & geographic orientation during the tow - death on a string! I tell -
JMHO
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:06:35 AM UTC-6, waltco...@aol.com wrote:for sure. I'm glad I'm not the one scaring you. I heard about these two situations around the water cooler and frankly I'm not impressed.
On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:27:56 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 6:18:37 PM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 4:10:03 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 8:05:03 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:24:42 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, jbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 8:00:53 AM UTC-4, R wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 2:56:38 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not necessarily.
My partner in our Cessna 180 is an excellent pilot and I'd fly anywhere
with him. Oh, he's a glider pilot, AND tow pilot, too.
I can tell you two check airman in an airliner are a terrible safety hazard. I forget which branch of the military actually barred two check pilots from flying together due to the incredible higher risk rate. It's an interesting conundrumDanYou might be the weak link...so ...sit in the back...don't touch the controls.
5J
On 6/8/22 18:45, R wrote:
Two Doctors in a Bonanza
R
a guy that took over 200 tows to solo, the other was from a girl that panicked on her solo and one with two with instructors in the glider. The incident that you heard about was a near disaster, and also had an instructor and student flying the glider, IHaving done over one thousand tows in 12 months is not bad for a tow pilot, and of that thousand I can honestly say that only five or less have been beyond what anyone should accept. one was a spoiler full deployment just after takeoff from
had to duck down to look in the mirror with my hand on the release, all I could see was the underbelly of the glider. When he finally got the idea he descended rapidly and out to the side causing my plane to yaw 45 degrees and creating the most unusualI averaged about 2700 tows a year for the two years and 8 months of my tenure at SLGP, that was working part time. The first severe kiting event was with a commercial add on student on a pattern tow, happened about 700 feet on the upwind. I
him. His buddy right after him had the same problem and someone on the ground, KZ as I recall came on the radio and told him to check spoilers.I had two open spoiler situations, one right after the other from two guys who came down to fly together. Number one didn't respond to the signal to check spoilers, we were climbing but not well. He finally got the idea as I was about to dump
are on but nobody's home. I had over 1000 hours flying in circles in northern Laos, close enough to see the s--t show over Hanoi on December 18th, 1972 and while we had a few wild rides it was she, not a Mig or SAM that came the closest to killing me.Towing a certain group of foreign students was always thrilling, especially in box the wake and slack rope recovery but the cake was taken by a student whom the most experienced instructor on the field said "should not be flying." The lights
pilot out there should be making it very clear to each glider pilot as to what is expected. Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle. Speaking for myself I should have pulled theRemember my friends, if you are flying tow and don't feel the student is up to the task you have the right to voice your opinion. I should have but didn't, MY BAD.Walt, you have made the best point about voicing concerns! I have been very vocal about expressing my concerns, actually I use the term ,"Chew Ass", when someone tries to kill me and themselves, yet they are clueless about themselves. Every tow
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
hear “if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release.” THIS was lacking in my opinion. A student should be told WHY to release, “BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT KILL THE TOW PILOT. “All tow pilots should be involved in the instructions to a student regarding release. I launched a lot of gliders, chased rope and hooked them up when I was taking lessons. I listened to the preflights between instructor and student and you would
tow plane and release if I lost sight.” NO ONE gave me this answer in any way shape or form. In my opinion the information is just not sinking in. There is a difference between telling someone what to do and TEACHING someone what to do. IF it had beenAfter my last severe kiting incident I continued to tow for a few weeks before my “dismissal.’’ I would ask students, “what’s the most important thing you can do on tow.” Of course the answer should have been “to keep my eyes on the
the first time she violently jerked my tail to the right. She was out of sight on my right, not to the left and in the mirror where she was supposed to be. Had I done so and had she not made it back to the runway, who knows what might have happened?My suggestion would be to implement a “release” situation just like a rope break at low altitude. The instructor could say “We just lost sight of the tow plane.” The student would then be REQUIRED to release on his or her own.
While there is never going to be a foolproof way of eliminating kiting situations, anything that can be done to keep the holes in the cheese from lining up should be implemented.
I fully understand what you mean when you said "Tow pilots have a very difficult decision to make at times, that decision is whether or not to pull the handle." I had a 15 year old girl on the end of the string and should have pulled the handle
takeoff I make radio contact and describe what my departure plan is and I also ask the student to confirm that the spoilers and canopy are closed and locked. When there is no reply I simply pull the release and exit the towplane . Old Bob, The PuristWalt ConnellyI have been towing a lot of new glider pilots lately, our club seems to be the talk of aviation on the Treasure Coast, which is great for the sport. On every solo flight I have made clear that there is to be a very precise expectation, before
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
REPETITION is how things are accomplished, muscle memory requires movements to be done time and time again, slowly at first and then more rapidly as muscle memory kicks in. I studied Krav Maga for a year until I hurt my back, a 71 year old wresting a 21In my USAF days I studied Taekwondo and Judo. I also boxed and wrestled in the base gyms which held classes in almost everything, I was a gym rat, there almost every day. Anyone who has even remotely dabbled in the martial arts will realize that
repetition. If all the instructor is doing is TELLING, he is not teaching. By the time a student solos, many actions must be committed to an instinctive memory if things are going to be done safely. It is truly amazing how infrequently accidents happenFlying also requires muscle memory, actions must be so ingrained that they are accomplished instantaneously, reacting to the situation immediately. Again, TELLING someone what to do is not the same as teaching, teaching requires emphasis and
and was taught - students to never take their eyes off the towplane. If there's any concern about orientation, brief the tug path before hookup.If a student can't reply to a radio command immediately and appropriately, should they be going solo?
JMHOLet me add something I have voiced before in other venues...I have been shocked by instructors at multiple venues around the USA briefing aerotow students to look around for traffic & geographic orientation during the tow - death on a string! I tell -
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
Let me add something I have voiced before in other venues...I havebeen shocked by instructors at multiple venues around the USA briefing
Excellent points, my late friend and instructor, Scotty, would pull the red corvette trick on students and flight reviews. As the towplane gained altitude Scotty would say something like look at that red corvette, you would be surprised how many timesthe pilot would actually look away from the towplane to see the red corvette that did not exist. When I tow solo students for their flights I always brief the student as to my flight path and procedure, it is a good idea. Old Bob, The Purist
Responding to the two posts below:times the pilot would actually look away from the towplane to see the red corvette that did not exist. When I tow solo students for their flights I always brief the student as to my flight path and procedure, it is a good idea. Old Bob, The Purist
A student should be taught to maintain position while on tow AND
maintain a traffic watch AND be aware of his location at all times.
I'm reminded of such things as a traffic merge that the tow pilot didn't
see which resulted in his death and the deaths of the people of the
plane that collided with the tow rope. The glider released and returned
to the departure airport.
Flying formation in the Air Force it was part of the wingman's (think
towed aircraft) duties to watch out for traffic. The only time I did
not take my eyes off of the lead aircraft was when we were flying in the weather.
Teach students to be pilots, not operators.
Dan
5J
Let me add something I have voiced before in other venues...I havebeen shocked by instructors at multiple venues around the USA briefing aerotow students to look around for traffic & geographic orientation
during the tow - death on a string! I tell - and was taught - students
to never take their eyes off the towplane. If there's any concern about orientation, brief the tug path before hookup.
Excellent points, my late friend and instructor, Scotty, would pull the red corvette trick on students and flight reviews. As the towplane gained altitude Scotty would say something like look at that red corvette, you would be surprised how many
On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 8:37:09 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:times the pilot would actually look away from the towplane to see the red corvette that did not exist. When I tow solo students for their flights I always brief the student as to my flight path and procedure, it is a good idea. Old Bob, The Purist
Responding to the two posts below:
A student should be taught to maintain position while on tow AND
maintain a traffic watch AND be aware of his location at all times.
I'm reminded of such things as a traffic merge that the tow pilot didn't see which resulted in his death and the deaths of the people of the
plane that collided with the tow rope. The glider released and returned
to the departure airport.
Flying formation in the Air Force it was part of the wingman's (think towed aircraft) duties to watch out for traffic. The only time I did
not take my eyes off of the lead aircraft was when we were flying in the weather.
Teach students to be pilots, not operators.
Dan
5J
Let me add something I have voiced before in other venues...I havebeen shocked by instructors at multiple venues around the USA briefing aerotow students to look around for traffic & geographic orientation during the tow - death on a string! I tell - and was taught - students
to never take their eyes off the towplane. If there's any concern about orientation, brief the tug path before hookup.
Excellent points, my late friend and instructor, Scotty, would pull the red corvette trick on students and flight reviews. As the towplane gained altitude Scotty would say something like look at that red corvette, you would be surprised how many
I also have been scolded by my CFI-Gs for looking to the sides while on tow. But, to me it seems sensible to do so, especially before the tow pilot is making a turn. Where I fly, there are some folks in GA that just buzz right on through the combinedglider port operations and skydive drop zone.... Should the tow pilot miss some traffic, what then? That could be catastrophic for sure. I would never do it if I was slightly out of position though. First things first!
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I wasn'tlooking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
Mike
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:t looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I wasn'
quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no reason a
Early in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made his
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor.
Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I
quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no reason a
first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point is muchEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made his
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor.
Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
As a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video gadgets, Ireally dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see all instructors
Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The Purist
I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to getsome video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.
Walt
On 7/12/2022 9:39 AM, waltco...@aol.com wrote:some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.
I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to get
Walt
Trying to pry the cellphone out of my students' cold dead hands is
really hard, the younger ones especially. And besides the distraction
it's also a loose item in the cockpit. We should be thankful a few
young people at least are willing to try and learn to fly, rather than
just watch others fly in online videos.
Overheard in the TCSC hangar about two weeks ago after the recently refurbished 2-33 had done a few flights:Whether due to wiffle ball, slipstream, the vector of the towline being different than the pitot, or just calibration errors, your airspeed indication on tow is generally worthless - hence "red tug, add 5 knots" vs. a specific number...and if no radio
OBTP to CFIG - "What airspeed were you showing on the tow?"
CFIG- "I didn't make note of it, sorry."
OBTP to New Student - "Did you see what the airspeed was showing on tow?
New Student - "Um...not really...I was only looking at the towplane the whole time."
OBTP - [paused] "Well, that wasn't meant to be a trick question, but that's a great answer!"
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I
a quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no reason
first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point is muchEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made his
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor.
Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see all instructorsAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video gadgets, I
After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that hesitancy.
I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but subsequently wehave seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.
I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to getsome video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.
WaltWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any teachable
Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old
Bob, The Purist
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT), youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:I did auto tow back in the day, when it was a rating not an endorsement, guess I am giving my age away. Now about Williams, those are very nice people, my wife and I have visited there and my wife flew there, what a nice group of people. They do not get
Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old
Bob, The Purist
That's surely MANDATORY on a grass field and for a winch launch, though I was pleasantly surprised to find that not having a runner was no problem
at Williams with its nicely maintained smooth runway and near constant Northerly straight down it.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
On 7/12/2022 9:39 AM, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell
phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on
the ground.  I suspect one incident that happened to me might have
been the result of someone trying to get some video of their solo.
She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror
on the last one, the one that almost killed me.
Walt
Trying to pry the cellphone out of my students' cold dead hands is
really hard, the younger ones especially. And besides the distraction
it's also a loose item in the cockpit. We should be thankful a few
young people at least are willing to try and learn to fly, rather than
just watch others fly in online videos.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I
reason a quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no
his first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point is muchEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor. Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
I really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see all instructorsAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video gadgets,
After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that hesitancy.
have seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but subsequently we
some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to get
situation, not some punched ticket gained after 15 hours! I have become much more proactive toward giving good information about towing and flying gliders than I was in the past. I recently saw a guy buy a nice fiberglass ship and get a cockpit checkWaltWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any teachable
As far as airspeed goes , it is very important in many situations, those whom have towed behind me will tell you that I always confirm their request for a certain speed and if they are super heavy I inform them that I will be towing them at a speedthat I think is better for the two of us.
To further the discussion about video and cell phones, I am definitely in agreement with the mild mannered UH, keep those things away from the cockpit! Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old Bob, The Purist
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:02:22 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:I wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me
reason a quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no
his first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point is muchEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor. Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
gadgets, I really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see allAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video
hesitancy. After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that
we have seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but subsequently
some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to get
situation, not some punched ticket gained after 15 hours! I have become much more proactive toward giving good information about towing and flying gliders than I was in the past. I recently saw a guy buy a nice fiberglass ship and get a cockpit checkWaltWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any teachable
that I think is better for the two of us.As far as airspeed goes , it is very important in many situations, those whom have towed behind me will tell you that I always confirm their request for a certain speed and if they are super heavy I inform them that I will be towing them at a speed
talk to him at the end of the day but we did not connect. I did suspect the ASIs on those old Pawnees but it might have been off. A mechanic did pull the tube and found mud dobbers clogging it a bit. I did have one pilot release just after lift off andTo further the discussion about video and cell phones, I am definitely in agreement with the mild mannered UH, keep those things away from the cockpit! Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old Bob, The PuristI remember one of the more experienced glass ship pilots behind me on tow on the radio asking for 5 more knots, then shortly after in a near panicky voice asking for 10 more. I was full throttle and barely climbing at all and into the wind. Meant to
As for wing runners, when I was learning to fly gliders I spent a lot of time chasing rope, hooking up and running wings, I was like a free employee. They essentially relied on someone being around and able to do that job, not a dedicated line boywhich should have been the norm.
I remember having to tow someone (Juliet Charlie) out of a small, narrow grass strip south of SLGP. No wing runner, relatively low time glider pilot. I started the tow twice and terminated it watching the glider turn and head for the fence beside therunway. Pilot could not get enough rudder authority quickly enough as the tow began. I figured out a way to position him at an angle so we would have time and distance to accomplish the tow. NOT a good thing to have to do but some times you have to make
I'll stick with helicopters from now on.
Walt
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 11:12:17 AM UTC-4, david.s....@gmail.com wrote:told me I wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 10:51:52 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:02:22 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy)
no reason a quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is
made his first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point isEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor. Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
gadgets, I really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see allAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video
hesitancy. After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that
subsequently we have seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but
get some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to
teachable situation, not some punched ticket gained after 15 hours! I have become much more proactive toward giving good information about towing and flying gliders than I was in the past. I recently saw a guy buy a nice fiberglass ship and get a cockpitWaltWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any
speed that I think is better for the two of us.As far as airspeed goes , it is very important in many situations, those whom have towed behind me will tell you that I always confirm their request for a certain speed and if they are super heavy I inform them that I will be towing them at a
to talk to him at the end of the day but we did not connect. I did suspect the ASIs on those old Pawnees but it might have been off. A mechanic did pull the tube and found mud dobbers clogging it a bit. I did have one pilot release just after lift offTo further the discussion about video and cell phones, I am definitely in agreement with the mild mannered UH, keep those things away from the cockpit! Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old Bob, The PuristI remember one of the more experienced glass ship pilots behind me on tow on the radio asking for 5 more knots, then shortly after in a near panicky voice asking for 10 more. I was full throttle and barely climbing at all and into the wind. Meant
which should have been the norm.As for wing runners, when I was learning to fly gliders I spent a lot of time chasing rope, hooking up and running wings, I was like a free employee. They essentially relied on someone being around and able to do that job, not a dedicated line boy
the runway. Pilot could not get enough rudder authority quickly enough as the tow began. I figured out a way to position him at an angle so we would have time and distance to accomplish the tow. NOT a good thing to have to do but some times you have toI remember having to tow someone (Juliet Charlie) out of a small, narrow grass strip south of SLGP. No wing runner, relatively low time glider pilot. I started the tow twice and terminated it watching the glider turn and head for the fence beside
slightly "away" from the lowered wing, expecting that the drag from the lowered wing will straighten the glider out at the beginning of the takeoff roll."I'll stick with helicopters from now on.
WaltActually, positioning the glider slightly away from the runway heading IS a good thing to do. Russell Holtz's "Flight Training Manual for Gliders", section 2.5 "Takeoff Without a Wing Runner" says "You might also want to point the glider's nose
And yes, I was a CFIG.Like your tow customer, I did not do this on my first aero-retrieve, and it did not go well. While a couple other mistakes contributed to my difficulties, I've used Holtz's suggestion ever since, with good results.
...davidAgreed. We have a nearby grass strip as an alternate.
Land west (uphill), roll long and towards a corner.
Push by hand into corner, nose about 45* to the grass runway.
Call for air retrieve.
When tow arrives, chat with towpilot. Rule is glider pilot hooks up, gets in and ready. When canopy closes, glider pilot is ready for a tow. Hold brakes.
Tow pilot starts, takes up slack, rudder wag, glider does as well.
If something wrong, pull and hold release while opening canopy. Reset and try again.
This works for ships with tip skids as well as tip wheels.
The low tip dragging starts to rotate the nose down the runway about when you gain airflow for normal flight control.
Tow out is downhill.
Hank and I have done this a few times as a nonevent.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:02:22 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told me I
a quick scan should create a problem.Once my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no reason
Mike
his first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point is muchEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student made
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor.
Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
I really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see all instructorsAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video gadgets,
After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that hesitancy.
have seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.
I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but subsequently we
some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.
I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to get
situation, not some punched ticket gained after 15 hours! I have become much more proactive toward giving good information about towing and flying gliders than I was in the past. I recently saw a guy buy a nice fiberglass ship and get a cockpit checkWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any teachable
Walt
that I think is better for the two of us.As far as airspeed goes , it is very important in many situations, those whom have towed behind me will tell you that I always confirm their request for a certain speed and if they are super heavy I inform them that I will be towing them at a speed
To further the discussion about video and cell phones, I am definitely in agreement with the mild mannered UH, keep those things away from the cockpit! Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old Bob, The Purist
I remember one of the more experienced glass ship pilots behind me on tow on the radio asking for 5 more knots, then shortly after in a near panicky voice asking for 10 more. I was full throttle and barely climbing at all and into the wind. Meant totalk to him at the end of the day but we did not connect. I did suspect the ASIs on those old Pawnees but it might have been off. A mechanic did pull the tube and found mud dobbers clogging it a bit. I did have one pilot release just after lift off and
As for wing runners, when I was learning to fly gliders I spent a lot of time chasing rope, hooking up and running wings, I was like a free employee. They essentially relied on someone being around and able to do that job, not a dedicated line boywhich should have been the norm.
I remember having to tow someone (Juliet Charlie) out of a small, narrow grass strip south of SLGP. No wing runner, relatively low time glider pilot. I started the tow twice and terminated it watching the glider turn and head for the fence beside therunway. Pilot could not get enough rudder authority quickly enough as the tow began. I figured out a way to position him at an angle so we would have time and distance to accomplish the tow. NOT a good thing to have to do but some times you have to
I'll stick with helicopters from now on.
Walt
On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 10:51:52 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:me I wasn't looking around enough while on tow. I don't think I ever look at ASI on tow unless something doesn't feel right.
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:02:22 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-4, waltco...@aol.com wrote:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 7:45:22 AM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:39:39 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:00:08 PM UTC-4, mdfa...@gmail.com wrote:
After a flight with a very well known instructor in the back seat, I was slightly admonished for closing the vent window scoop while on tow. (I think I was below 200" AGL) "Focus on the tow plane". Another instructor (former F 14 guy) told
reason a quick scan should create a problem.MikeOnce my students are doing tow well I ask that they take a glance around periodically for safety. More than once the glider pilot has identified a serious conflict that the tug pilot did not see. Note I said glance and not stare. There is no
made his first near perfect tow behind the Pawnee, after landing the instructor wanted to have him do a simulated rope break, I asked the instructor why? having the student demonstrate that he has a understanding of a great tow position at that point isEarly in the tow we also need situational awareness to implement our emergency response plan.I agree with many points made in this thread, perfect tow position should be number one, especially in the initial part of training until the tow has been mastered, then things like slack and boxing the wake can be taught. Recently a student
That said, until well above the ground, the first and foremost priority is perfect tow position.
Save the fixin' shit in the cockpit till off tow.
I also discourage video cameras due to the distraction factor. Cheerful (?) instructor
UH
gadgets, I really dislike the pilot or student using them, attach to the outside of the craft and I have no problem, but inside of the cockpit especially from the students seating position and you will be asked to remove it. I would love to see allAs a tow pilot I ask a couple of questions to the glider pilot, one is confirm that the canopy is locked and the second confirm that your spoilers are closed and locked. Never can be too safe and cautious! Now about GoPro's and other video
hesitancy. After a couple of severe kiting incidents without the glider pilot reacting properly I began to ask questions of the students. A real eye opener.Just yesterday I was looking at a picture out of Scotland where an instructor and student pretty much destroyed a ASK21 by landing short, WHY??? Old Bob, The PuristAs a tow pilot I was very hesitant to question an instructor not being an instructor myself. As I came to realize many important lessons were either not being taught or were not sinking into the head of the student I stepped aside from that
subsequently we have seen incidents where instructors were distracted by them, Front Royal being an example.I agree 100 percent with respect to the video cameras in the cockpit although I used them on occasion, they were properly attached and started before I took off. As a tow pilot I had no problem with an experienced pilot using them but
get some video of their solo. She flew poorly on her first two solos but wasn't even in the mirror on the last one, the one that almost killed me.I would add that students should not be allowed to fly with their cell phones, they can leave them in the car car or with their instructor on the ground. I suspect one incident that happened to me might have been the result of someone trying to
situation, not some punched ticket gained after 15 hours! I have become much more proactive toward giving good information about towing and flying gliders than I was in the past. I recently saw a guy buy a nice fiberglass ship and get a cockpit checkWaltWalt being an instructor means very little to me, as I am not one and never wanted to be. Some of the instructors that I have seen and heard give advice given from need to take up another activity. Experience is the key ingredient in any teachable
that I think is better for the two of us.As far as airspeed goes , it is very important in many situations, those whom have towed behind me will tell you that I always confirm their request for a certain speed and if they are super heavy I inform them that I will be towing them at a speed
talk to him at the end of the day but we did not connect. I did suspect the ASIs on those old Pawnees but it might have been off. A mechanic did pull the tube and found mud dobbers clogging it a bit. I did have one pilot release just after lift off andTo further the discussion about video and cell phones, I am definitely in agreement with the mild mannered UH, keep those things away from the cockpit! Next thing on the thread is the wing runner or lack of one. Old Bob, The PuristI remember one of the more experienced glass ship pilots behind me on tow on the radio asking for 5 more knots, then shortly after in a near panicky voice asking for 10 more. I was full throttle and barely climbing at all and into the wind. Meant to
which should have been the norm.As for wing runners, when I was learning to fly gliders I spent a lot of time chasing rope, hooking up and running wings, I was like a free employee. They essentially relied on someone being around and able to do that job, not a dedicated line boy
runway. Pilot could not get enough rudder authority quickly enough as the tow began. I figured out a way to position him at an angle so we would have time and distance to accomplish the tow. NOT a good thing to have to do but some times you have to makeI remember having to tow someone (Juliet Charlie) out of a small, narrow grass strip south of SLGP. No wing runner, relatively low time glider pilot. I started the tow twice and terminated it watching the glider turn and head for the fence beside the
slightly "away" from the lowered wing, expecting that the drag from the lowered wing will straighten the glider out at the beginning of the takeoff roll."I'll stick with helicopters from now on.
WaltActually, positioning the glider slightly away from the runway heading IS a good thing to do. Russell Holtz's "Flight Training Manual for Gliders", section 2.5 "Takeoff Without a Wing Runner" says "You might also want to point the glider's nose
Like your tow customer, I did not do this on my first aero-retrieve, and it did not go well. While a couple other mistakes contributed to my difficulties, I've used Holtz's suggestion ever since, with good results.Agreed. We have a nearby grass strip as an alternate.
...david
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