I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. Myunderstanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a Letterof Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling agency
Morgan
From the FAR's:communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or both.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder, ATC may
On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or any
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. Myunderstanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a Letterof Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling agency
Morgan
From the FAR's:communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or both.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder, ATC may
On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or any
Thank you very much.understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote:
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling agencyGliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a Letter
Morgan
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or both.(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder, ATC
ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or any
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote:
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controllingGliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a
Morgan
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or both.(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder, ATC
any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or
It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:27:34 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote:
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controllingGliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a
Morgan
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
ATC may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder,
any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or
not say "(d)(2) through (d)(4)". It is (d)(3) that requires ADS-B Out "Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL".It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.It's not only a comfusing situation it's confusing situation ( I cannot type worth a darn - or maybe spell worth a darn ).
I've read 14 CFR 91.225 many times and am left uncertain. 91.225 (e) says for aircraft not equiped with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently certified with one the requirements of 91.225 (d)(2) and (d)(4) do not apply. Note that it does
In addition, 91.225 (e)(2) states that to be exempt from the ADS-B Out requirement the flight must be "Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower."
After all this I agree with Morgan. I remain unsure that ADS-B Out is required below 10,000' MSL above Class C airspace but I feel safer and potentially "more legal" having it.
It's that pesky (d)(3) that makes me believe I need ADSB-Out below 10k and above B/C airspace. It very well could have been a typo that was supposed to be "through" instead of "and", but I have no doubt that in the current climate you could get aviolation based on (d)(3). Especially if you have a YouTube channel.
Last Sunday I again found myself up next to Fresno Airspace. Glad to have ADSB-Out and all I needed was a call to approach and get a squawk code and I was clear to fly over or through the airspace.
Morgan
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 2:39:03 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:27:34 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
Morgan
From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or both.
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder, ATC
ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or any
not say "(d)(2) through (d)(4)". It is (d)(3) that requires ADS-B Out "Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL".It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.It's not only a comfusing situation it's confusing situation ( I cannot type worth a darn - or maybe spell worth a darn ).
I've read 14 CFR 91.225 many times and am left uncertain. 91.225 (e) says for aircraft not equiped with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently certified with one the requirements of 91.225 (d)(2) and (d)(4) do not apply. Note that it does
In addition, 91.225 (e)(2) states that to be exempt from the ADS-B Out requirement the flight must be "Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower."
After all this I agree with Morgan. I remain unsure that ADS-B Out is required below 10,000' MSL above Class C airspace but I feel safer and potentially "more legal" having it.
You could ask your local FSDO and, if you get an answer you like, recordviolation based on (d)(3). Especially if you have a YouTube channel.
the date and time of the conversation and the name and position of the individual who gave you that answer. Because... You can easily get
another answer from a different FSDO.
Dan
5J
On 6/15/22 16:28, Morgan Hall wrote:
It's that pesky (d)(3) that makes me believe I need ADSB-Out below 10k and above B/C airspace. It very well could have been a typo that was supposed to be "through" instead of "and", but I have no doubt that in the current climate you could get a
Last Sunday I again found myself up next to Fresno Airspace. Glad to have ADSB-Out and all I needed was a call to approach and get a squawk code and I was clear to fly over or through the airspace.
Morgan
understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 2:39:03 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:27:34 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
Morgan
From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
ATC may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder,
any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or
does not say "(d)(2) through (d)(4)". It is (d)(3) that requires ADS-B Out "Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL".It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.It's not only a comfusing situation it's confusing situation ( I cannot type worth a darn - or maybe spell worth a darn ).
I've read 14 CFR 91.225 many times and am left uncertain. 91.225 (e) says for aircraft not equiped with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently certified with one the requirements of 91.225 (d)(2) and (d)(4) do not apply. Note that it
In addition, 91.225 (e)(2) states that to be exempt from the ADS-B Out requirement the flight must be "Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower."
After all this I agree with Morgan. I remain unsure that ADS-B Out is required below 10,000' MSL above Class C airspace but I feel safer and potentially "more legal" having it.
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:violation based on (d)(3). Especially if you have a YouTube channel.
You could ask your local FSDO and, if you get an answer you like, record the date and time of the conversation and the name and position of the individual who gave you that answer. Because... You can easily get
another answer from a different FSDO.
Dan
5J
On 6/15/22 16:28, Morgan Hall wrote:
It's that pesky (d)(3) that makes me believe I need ADSB-Out below 10k and above B/C airspace. It very well could have been a typo that was supposed to be "through" instead of "and", but I have no doubt that in the current climate you could get a
Last Sunday I again found myself up next to Fresno Airspace. Glad to have ADSB-Out and all I needed was a call to approach and get a squawk code and I was clear to fly over or through the airspace.
Morgan
understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 2:39:03 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:27:34 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote:
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a controlling
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at a
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
Morgan
From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
ATC may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made, or
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative transponder,
any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS or
does not say "(d)(2) through (d)(4)". It is (d)(3) that requires ADS-B Out "Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL".It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.It's not only a comfusing situation it's confusing situation ( I cannot type worth a darn - or maybe spell worth a darn ).
I've read 14 CFR 91.225 many times and am left uncertain. 91.225 (e) says for aircraft not equiped with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently certified with one the requirements of 91.225 (d)(2) and (d)(4) do not apply. Note that it
Regardless of the ADS-B requirement, you will still need a transponder (unless otherwise authorized by ATC) if you overfly class B or C airspace below 10,000 ft and above their ceiling per 14 CFR 215 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.215):
In addition, 91.225 (e)(2) states that to be exempt from the ADS-B Out requirement the flight must be "Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower."
After all this I agree with Morgan. I remain unsure that ADS-B Out is required below 10,000' MSL above Class C airspace but I feel safer and potentially "more legal" having it.
(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and
Tom
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 1:55:34 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:violation based on (d)(3). Especially if you have a YouTube channel.
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
You could ask your local FSDO and, if you get an answer you like, record the date and time of the conversation and the name and position of the individual who gave you that answer. Because... You can easily get another answer from a different FSDO.
Dan
5J
On 6/15/22 16:28, Morgan Hall wrote:
It's that pesky (d)(3) that makes me believe I need ADSB-Out below 10k and above B/C airspace. It very well could have been a typo that was supposed to be "through" instead of "and", but I have no doubt that in the current climate you could get a
Last Sunday I again found myself up next to Fresno Airspace. Glad to have ADSB-Out and all I needed was a call to approach and get a squawk code and I was clear to fly over or through the airspace.
Morgan
understanding and one reason I equipped with ADSB Out is that below 10k you must have ADSB-Out to overfly Class C. (91.225 d3) Since Santa Barbara and Fresno Class C airspace are both areas that I routinely fly near, I opted to upgrade to ADSB-Out and it'On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 2:39:03 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 6:27:34 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:12:27 PM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you very much.
I did ask more than one CFI-G and each time I was told "Gliders don't have electrical systems." Interesting that aircraft flying above 10,000 must have ADS-B, but gliders only need it up to 10,000 over Class C.
Thanks again.
Jon
On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 8:56:46 AM UTC-7, mor...@gmail.com wrote:
Not a stupid question, the FARs are confusing as hell. I know someone that went round and round with the FAA trying to understand the wording of a FAR describing overflight of Class C prior to 2020 and the FSDO reps struggled just as much. My
a Letter of Agreement for a Wave Window, it typically defines the boundaries and the rules for opening the window. They don't seem to magically transform the airspace into Class E though. They seem to just be a very specific authorization by a
Gliders into Class A is an interesting one. I think 91.135 Section D (ATC Authorizations) is the magic bullet, but since Class A operations are supposed to be conducted under Instrument Flight Rules, that's a big can of worms. If you look at
communications with ATC while operating in Class A airspace.
Morgan
From the FAR's:
91.135 Operations in Class A airspace.
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating an aircraft in Class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operating in Class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must maintain two-way radio
transponder, ATC may immediately approve an operation within a Class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be
(c) Transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within Class A airspace unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an inoperative
or any ADS-B out as long as the pilot is instrument-rated. Glider is transponder mode S equiped.On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-7, jonatha...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a stupid question, like all my questions. Is a glider required to have ADS-B out to fly over Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet, above that not required? I have also been told that one can get clearance into Class A without ADS-B TIS
does not say "(d)(2) through (d)(4)". It is (d)(3) that requires ADS-B Out "Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL".It's a comfusing situation. The FAR's say "engine-driven electrical system". On its face that excludes the battery-driven electrical systems in gliders. On the other hand I would not like to have to explain that to an administrative law judge.It's not only a comfusing situation it's confusing situation ( I cannot type worth a darn - or maybe spell worth a darn ).
I've read 14 CFR 91.225 many times and am left uncertain. 91.225 (e) says for aircraft not equiped with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently certified with one the requirements of 91.225 (d)(2) and (d)(4) do not apply. Note that it
Regardless of the ADS-B requirement, you will still need a transponder (unless otherwise authorized by ATC) if you overfly class B or C airspace below 10,000 ft and above their ceiling per 14 CFR 215 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.215):
In addition, 91.225 (e)(2) states that to be exempt from the ADS-B Out requirement the flight must be "Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower."
After all this I agree with Morgan. I remain unsure that ADS-B Out is required below 10,000' MSL above Class C airspace but I feel safer and potentially "more legal" having it.
(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and
TomThat's how I read 91.215 too Tom. Just stay away or ask permission I guess.
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