I was just reading David Hart's column in the latest (April 2022) Soaring Magazine, and got to thinking. He lays out 3 ways the SSA can assist in growing soaring in the US: 1. Awareness, 2. Assistance, and 3. Infrastructure. With the recent "seven-
figure donations" to the SSA, it appears they have more ability to help these days.

If you are a member of a large, well-stablished club, with a substantial fleet of club gliders, you will probably not appreciate the plight of the numerous smaller clubs around the country. Not only are glider pilots "aging out", but so is the training
fleet. And with declining club membership comes declining club revenues, particularly revenue to replace aging and damaged training gliders. Most small clubs are stuck using the venerable SGS 2-33 for primary training, and MANY don't have the funds to
purchase fiberglass training gliders, or fiberglass solo gliders that can be used to transition someone from their old low-performance metal and fabric birds to newer higher performance glass ships. Thus, many club members are left to figure this out
for themselves, and often funds are limited Which results in purchasing older fiberglass gliders, which are affordable, but not ideally suited to new pilots with little experience in higher performance ships. This creates quite the dilemma for newer
pilots on a tight budget. Many times, members will eventually tire of floating around the airfield in a 2-33, and loose interest and leave the club and the sport.

The idea I'd like to propose, would be an SSA sponsored "scholarship" or subsidy of sorts to clubs, particularly smaller less well-funded clubs, to assist in purchasing newer fiberglass training gliders, like the venerable ASK-21, or other such
fiberglass two-seaters. Maybe some arrangement could be reached where the SSA provides matching funds to the club to allow them to purchase new or used gliders that could be used for this purpose. Possibly also matching funds to expand the fleet of the
club to include good "first glass" ships for the club to have for inexperienced pilots to use for solo flights. Maybe they could make an arrangement with companies like AS to include an SSA discount on new ASK-21s (or another company that makes new-
production fiberglass training gliders that are affordable). I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way
to growing the sport.

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I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem starting
off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem starting

off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:21:22 PM UTC-7, johngf...@gmail.com wrote:

I was just reading David Hart's column in the latest (April 2022) Soaring Magazine, and got to thinking. He lays out 3 ways the SSA can assist in growing soaring in the US: 1. Awareness, 2. Assistance, and 3. Infrastructure. With the recent "seven-

figure donations" to the SSA, it appears they have more ability to help these days.

If you are a member of a large, well-stablished club, with a substantial fleet of club gliders, you will probably not appreciate the plight of the numerous smaller clubs around the country. Not only are glider pilots "aging out", but so is the training

fleet. And with declining club membership comes declining club revenues, particularly revenue to replace aging and damaged training gliders. Most small clubs are stuck using the venerable SGS 2-33 for primary training, and MANY don't have the funds to
purchase fiberglass training gliders, or fiberglass solo gliders that can be used to transition someone from their old low-performance metal and fabric birds to newer higher performance glass ships. Thus, many club members are left to figure this out for
themselves, and often funds are limited Which results in purchasing older fiberglass gliders, which are affordable, but not ideally suited to new pilots with little experience in higher performance ships. This creates quite the dilemma for newer pilots
on a tight budget. Many times, members will eventually tire of floating around the airfield in a 2-33, and loose interest and leave the club and the sport.

The idea I'd like to propose, would be an SSA sponsored "scholarship" or subsidy of sorts to clubs, particularly smaller less well-funded clubs, to assist in purchasing newer fiberglass training gliders, like the venerable ASK-21, or other such

fiberglass two-seaters. Maybe some arrangement could be reached where the SSA provides matching funds to the club to allow them to purchase new or used gliders that could be used for this purpose. Possibly also matching funds to expand the fleet of the
club to include good "first glass" ships for the club to have for inexperienced pilots to use for solo flights. Maybe they could make an arrangement with companies like AS to include an SSA discount on new ASK-21s (or another company that makes new-
production fiberglass training gliders that are affordable). I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way
to growing the sport.

You can start by reviewing all of the financial and organizational documents on the SSA's website:
https://www.ssa.org/ssa-foundation/

Tom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:26:53 AM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem starting

off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

So how would a club transition a club member from a 2-33 to a something like a Standard Cirrus, ASW 15, or a Bolkow Phoebus then? I'm not saying that 2-33s should go away. But they are getting harder to find, and more and more get damaged beyond repair,
or if they are repaired, they gain weight and loose useful load. There is a finite number of them, and every year it gets smaller. And transitioning from a 2-33 to a Bolkow Phoebus or Standard Cirrus, is not recommended for a low-time pilot. You're
right about the numbers. That is why I am suggesting that the SSA get involved in assisting smaller clubs to acquire appropriate more modern glass training gliders. I think that with financial assistance from the SSA, and possibly if an agreement could
be made with AS like they did with Costello Insurance, the financial cost to clubs could make it financially doable for small clubs to update their fleets.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:59:12 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:26:53 AM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem

starting off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

So how would a club transition a club member from a 2-33 to a something like a Standard Cirrus, ASW 15, or a Bolkow Phoebus then? I'm not saying that 2-33s should go away. But they are getting harder to find, and more and more get damaged beyond repair,

or if they are repaired, they gain weight and loose useful load. There is a finite number of them, and every year it gets smaller. And transitioning from a 2-33 to a Bolkow Phoebus or Standard Cirrus, is not recommended for a low-time pilot. You're
right about the numbers. That is why I am suggesting that the SSA get involved in assisting smaller clubs to acquire appropriate more modern glass training gliders. I think that with financial assistance from the SSA, and possibly if an agreement could
be made with AS like they did with Costello Insurance, the financial cost to clubs could make it financially doable for small clubs to update their fleets.

If all your club has to offer are 2-33s and 1-26s, it's kinda a dead-end club. Very difficult for club members to move beyond these old low-performance gliders, unless they go elsewhere and invest a lot more of their own money to get additional training
if they want to fly glass ships.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 6:26:53 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem starting

off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

Well as I mentioned having no experience with many small clubs, I might be talking out of my arse (it won't be the first or last time), but I keep reading about the decline of both general aviation and glider pilot students. Are there really so many
student pilots that small clubs actually require two 2-33's?

I read about this decline in new pilots 12 years ago, I can't imagine its improved since. Flying just isn't attracting new kids like it used to. There must be many reasons why. Just speculating here, there're hundreds of YouTube sailplane videos, how
many feature 2-33's? I wonder about 14-16 year old kids who watch these, maybe read a little about soaring, get excited, go out to a gliderport and are put into a 2-33. I don't know how much ASK-21's cost, it's too bad there's not a suitable trainer
that might cost somewhere between a ASK-21 and 2-33 that doesn't have a high wing and struts.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:01:59 PM UTC-7, johngf...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 2:59:12 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:26:53 AM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem

starting off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

So how would a club transition a club member from a 2-33 to a something like a Standard Cirrus, ASW 15, or a Bolkow Phoebus then? I'm not saying that 2-33s should go away. But they are getting harder to find, and more and more get damaged beyond

repair, or if they are repaired, they gain weight and loose useful load. There is a finite number of them, and every year it gets smaller. And transitioning from a 2-33 to a Bolkow Phoebus or Standard Cirrus, is not recommended for a low-time pilot. You'
re right about the numbers. That is why I am suggesting that the SSA get involved in assisting smaller clubs to acquire appropriate more modern glass training gliders. I think that with financial assistance from the SSA, and possibly if an agreement
could be made with AS like they did with Costello Insurance, the financial cost to clubs could make it financially doable for small clubs to update their fleets.

If all your club has to offer are 2-33s and 1-26s, it's kinda a dead-end club. Very difficult for club members to move beyond these old low-performance gliders, unless they go elsewhere and invest a lot more of their own money to get additional

training if they want to fly glass ships.

If you are going to start a club that has reasonably modern aircraft it will take, at least, $200k. A quick check of a/c loan companies shows that the monthly payment is $3,400 for a 12-year loan. You will also need more money for annuals, repairs, and
insurance, probably $4,000 per year. Simple math will tell you how much dues will have to be to generate this cash flow. Also, someone(s) is/are going to have to guarantee the loan, not a small consideration. If some of the members are equity owners the
club can have two classes of members and reduce the monthly dues accordingly. The bottom line is the club will have to generate $45k/year, or $200 per month in dues with 20 members.

Tom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 4:56:49 PM UTC-5, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I don't know how much ASK-21's cost, it's too bad there's not a suitable trainer that might cost somewhere between a ASK-21 and 2-33 that doesn't have a high wing and struts.

At the last SSA Convention, held in LIT, I asked Noelle Mays of Williams Soaring (U.S. Schleicher dealer) what a new ASK-21 would cost. I'm pretty sure she said average price with average equipment was $160k.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 4:59:12 PM UTC-4, johngf...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:26:53 AM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem

starting off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

So how would a club transition a club member from a 2-33 to a something like a Standard Cirrus, ASW 15, or a Bolkow Phoebus then? I'm not saying that 2-33s should go away. But they are getting harder to find, and more and more get damaged beyond repair,

or if they are repaired, they gain weight and loose useful load. There is a finite number of them, and every year it gets smaller. And transitioning from a 2-33 to a Bolkow Phoebus or Standard Cirrus, is not recommended for a low-time pilot. You're
right about the numbers. That is why I am suggesting that the SSA get involved in assisting smaller clubs to acquire appropriate more modern glass training gliders. I think that with financial assistance from the SSA, and possibly if an agreement could
be made with AS like they did with Costello Insurance, the financial cost to clubs could make it financially doable for small clubs to update their fleets.

Our club has enough equipment now that the progression includes a 1-34 after the 1-26. As an example, once our juniors get time in the 1-34 it is not a big step to move them into my Std Libelle. After many years we have a '21. Interestingly the 2-33's
do the bulk of the work and generate much of the revenue to support the '21. If the club financials and activity can't support the purchase and support of a modern glass trainer, SSA won't be a solution in the long term.
FWIW- in the old days I transitioned from a 1-26 into a PIK-20.
UH

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 7:41:17 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 4:59:12 PM UTC-4, johngf...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:26:53 AM UTC-6, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:59:30 PM UTC-4, pdxcol...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm just returning to soaring after a 12 year absence with only 42 glider hours. I flew my first 13 flights in a 2-33, then 10 years later came back and earned my glider rating in a ASK-21. There's no reason why it would have been a problem

starting off in the ASK-21. I think you have a great idea, however it's done, I believe it's way past time to retire all the 2-33's as relics of a bygone era.

I do not agree.
21's are really nice gliders- I own one.
BUT- for a small club with limited cash flow, one can have two 2-33's and a 1-26 for less than the cost of a '21.
Having enough ships for all to fly matters.
Plus- If you break one, a 2-33 can be repaired anywhere and your ASK-21 will go to a very limited resource of shops who all have long lead times.
Old Hank- the Purist

So how would a club transition a club member from a 2-33 to a something like a Standard Cirrus, ASW 15, or a Bolkow Phoebus then? I'm not saying that 2-33s should go away. But they are getting harder to find, and more and more get damaged beyond

repair, or if they are repaired, they gain weight and loose useful load. There is a finite number of them, and every year it gets smaller. And transitioning from a 2-33 to a Bolkow Phoebus or Standard Cirrus, is not recommended for a low-time pilot. You'
re right about the numbers. That is why I am suggesting that the SSA get involved in assisting smaller clubs to acquire appropriate more modern glass training gliders. I think that with financial assistance from the SSA, and possibly if an agreement
could be made with AS like they did with Costello Insurance, the financial cost to clubs could make it financially doable for small clubs to update their fleets.

Our club has enough equipment now that the progression includes a 1-34 after the 1-26. As an example, once our juniors get time in the 1-34 it is not a big step to move them into my Std Libelle. After many years we have a '21. Interestingly the 2-33's

do the bulk of the work and generate much of the revenue to support the '21.

If the club financials and activity can't support the purchase and support of a modern glass trainer, SSA won't be a solution in the long term.
FWIW- in the old days I transitioned from a 1-26 into a PIK-20.
UH

To Old Hank, The Purist from Old Bob, The Purist, check out soaring forum group on Facebook, you are absolutely correct! Old Bob, The Purist

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way to growing the sport.

A few observations...

Our Club has an SGS 2-33 and two G-103s. Rated glider pilots move up into the our single seat Cirrus (CN) and DG-505 (DS). The Club desperately needs another trainer and I can't find one. Hank, I have been looking overseas too and have an experienced
former club member who lives in Germany willing to take a look when something comes up on Segelflug. There just doesn't seem to be much. We've been looking for nearly 2 years and will keep looking.

Fwiw, our CFIGs don't like training from the back seat of a 2-33 (except for one tall guy in our Club). That said, if a 2-33 came up for sale that was in good shape, I'd probably pounce on it. Rumor has it there's a club that owns a $75k Schweizer 2-33
fully refurbished by K&L. Many laughed but it's brand new with a good useful load.

Most L-23s have an even more limited lifespan when flown dual (and I'm not talking about the aerobatic lifespan rules either). I wish Vans could manufacture a modern version of a simplified L-13 Blanik (without flaps).

I'm sure there will be a bidding war for St. Louis Soaring Club's used K-21 this summer... my guess is it will need lots of work (as Minnesota Soaring Club's did). Any G-103 with a decent useful load is spoken for and presently owned by a Club who needs
it and isn't looking to let it go.

I don't know of any other choice but to start budgeting and fundraising for an ASK-21.

One thought I had was to have some of the SSA's recent donations be used to provide Loan Guaranty's that would make it easier for a Chapter of the SSA to finance a glider that may be amortized over 10-15 years where the Loan-to-Value ratio is at least 50%
(I found a bank in Tulsa, OK, willing to finance gliders on terms much more favorable than traditional consumer loans offered by Lea County State Bank in Hobbs). And, now, given the recent and likely increases in interest rates, this seems dubious too.
At the very least the window is closing in on affordable fixed-rate loans.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

- Chris Schrader, President
Sandhill Soaring Club

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:46:22 AM UTC-4, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way to growing the sport.

A few observations...

Our Club has an SGS 2-33 and two G-103s. Rated glider pilots move up into the our single seat Cirrus (CN) and DG-505 (DS). The Club desperately needs another trainer and I can't find one. Hank, I have been looking overseas too and have an experienced

former club member who lives in Germany willing to take a look when something comes up on Segelflug. There just doesn't seem to be much. We've been looking for nearly 2 years and will keep looking.

Fwiw, our CFIGs don't like training from the back seat of a 2-33 (except for one tall guy in our Club). That said, if a 2-33 came up for sale that was in good shape, I'd probably pounce on it. Rumor has it there's a club that owns a $75k Schweizer 2-33

fully refurbished by K&L. Many laughed but it's brand new with a good useful load.

Most L-23s have an even more limited lifespan when flown dual (and I'm not talking about the aerobatic lifespan rules either). I wish Vans could manufacture a modern version of a simplified L-13 Blanik (without flaps).

I'm sure there will be a bidding war for St. Louis Soaring Club's used K-21 this summer... my guess is it will need lots of work (as Minnesota Soaring Club's did). Any G-103 with a decent useful load is spoken for and presently owned by a Club who

needs it and isn't looking to let it go.

I don't know of any other choice but to start budgeting and fundraising for an ASK-21.

One thought I had was to have some of the SSA's recent donations be used to provide Loan Guaranty's that would make it easier for a Chapter of the SSA to finance a glider that may be amortized over 10-15 years where the Loan-to-Value ratio is at least

50% (I found a bank in Tulsa, OK, willing to finance gliders on terms much more favorable than traditional consumer loans offered by Lea County State Bank in Hobbs). And, now, given the recent and likely increases in interest rates, this seems dubious
too. At the very least the window is closing in on affordable fixed-rate loans.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

- Chris Schrader, President
Sandhill Soaring Club

All of our glider purchases have been member financed.
FWIW
UH

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:56:24 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:46:22 AM UTC-4, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way to growing the sport.

A few observations...

Our Club has an SGS 2-33 and two G-103s. Rated glider pilots move up into the our single seat Cirrus (CN) and DG-505 (DS). The Club desperately needs another trainer and I can't find one. Hank, I have been looking overseas too and have an experienced

former club member who lives in Germany willing to take a look when something comes up on Segelflug. There just doesn't seem to be much. We've been looking for nearly 2 years and will keep looking.

Fwiw, our CFIGs don't like training from the back seat of a 2-33 (except for one tall guy in our Club). That said, if a 2-33 came up for sale that was in good shape, I'd probably pounce on it. Rumor has it there's a club that owns a $75k Schweizer 2-

33 fully refurbished by K&L. Many laughed but it's brand new with a good useful load.

Most L-23s have an even more limited lifespan when flown dual (and I'm not talking about the aerobatic lifespan rules either). I wish Vans could manufacture a modern version of a simplified L-13 Blanik (without flaps).

I'm sure there will be a bidding war for St. Louis Soaring Club's used K-21 this summer... my guess is it will need lots of work (as Minnesota Soaring Club's did). Any G-103 with a decent useful load is spoken for and presently owned by a Club who

needs it and isn't looking to let it go.

I don't know of any other choice but to start budgeting and fundraising for an ASK-21.

One thought I had was to have some of the SSA's recent donations be used to provide Loan Guaranty's that would make it easier for a Chapter of the SSA to finance a glider that may be amortized over 10-15 years where the Loan-to-Value ratio is at

least 50% (I found a bank in Tulsa, OK, willing to finance gliders on terms much more favorable than traditional consumer loans offered by Lea County State Bank in Hobbs). And, now, given the recent and likely increases in interest rates, this seems
dubious too. At the very least the window is closing in on affordable fixed-rate loans.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

- Chris Schrader, President
Sandhill Soaring Club

All of our glider purchases have been member financed.
FWIW
UH

Should we also include considerations for the cost of tow planes? Are they not also a limiting financial barrier? How much benefit might there be if the SSA could successfully lobby the FAA to allow experimental aircraft to tow gliders in non-profit
clubs?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:10:08 PM UTC-6, Jeff Bures wrote:

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:56:24 AM UTC-7, Hank Nixon wrote:

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:46:22 AM UTC-4, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not saying all these ideas are perfect, but some kind of financial support that goes beyond scholarships, to worthy students, and helps clubs update their aging fleet, would go a long way to growing the sport.

A few observations...

Our Club has an SGS 2-33 and two G-103s. Rated glider pilots move up into the our single seat Cirrus (CN) and DG-505 (DS). The Club desperately needs another trainer and I can't find one. Hank, I have been looking overseas too and have an

experienced former club member who lives in Germany willing to take a look when something comes up on Segelflug. There just doesn't seem to be much. We've been looking for nearly 2 years and will keep looking.

Fwiw, our CFIGs don't like training from the back seat of a 2-33 (except for one tall guy in our Club). That said, if a 2-33 came up for sale that was in good shape, I'd probably pounce on it. Rumor has it there's a club that owns a $75k Schweizer

2-33 fully refurbished by K&L. Many laughed but it's brand new with a good useful load.

Most L-23s have an even more limited lifespan when flown dual (and I'm not talking about the aerobatic lifespan rules either). I wish Vans could manufacture a modern version of a simplified L-13 Blanik (without flaps).

I'm sure there will be a bidding war for St. Louis Soaring Club's used K-21 this summer... my guess is it will need lots of work (as Minnesota Soaring Club's did). Any G-103 with a decent useful load is spoken for and presently owned by a Club who

needs it and isn't looking to let it go.

I don't know of any other choice but to start budgeting and fundraising for an ASK-21.

One thought I had was to have some of the SSA's recent donations be used to provide Loan Guaranty's that would make it easier for a Chapter of the SSA to finance a glider that may be amortized over 10-15 years where the Loan-to-Value ratio is at

least 50% (I found a bank in Tulsa, OK, willing to finance gliders on terms much more favorable than traditional consumer loans offered by Lea County State Bank in Hobbs). And, now, given the recent and likely increases in interest rates, this seems
dubious too. At the very least the window is closing in on affordable fixed-rate loans.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

- Chris Schrader, President
Sandhill Soaring Club

All of our glider purchases have been member financed.
FWIW
UH

Should we also include considerations for the cost of tow planes? Are they not also a limiting financial barrier? How much benefit might there be if the SSA could successfully lobby the FAA to allow experimental aircraft to tow gliders in non-profit

clubs?

Not a bad consideration. There are definitely clubs where some financial assistance in buying/maintaining a tow plane could be very helpful.

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