2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, Darren Braun wrote:
2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::I spoke with a senior club member in Jacksonville this morning. The NTSB is on site today to check the control integrity and hookups. I'm pretty sure we all have an immediate assumption as to what happened and how it could have been prevented.
We should note that his releasing at a low altitude could very well have saved the tow pilot from an unrecoverable kiting upset.
RIP
PA
Tragic as always!
But always encouraging to hear “experts” ensuring us how safe gliding I’m fact is, and how rare accidents are.
After all, we fly low and slow, and don’t carry fuel, so what could possibly go wrong?
Ramy
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 9:10:59 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, Darren Braun wrote:
2 incidents and 1 fatality this week in Jacksonville.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/04/16/jfrd-at-least-1-dead-after-aircraft-goes-down-in-woods-near-herlong-airport/
https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::I spoke with a senior club member in Jacksonville this morning. The NTSB is on site today to check the control integrity and hookups. I'm pretty sure we all have an immediate assumption as to what happened and how it could have been prevented.
We should note that his releasing at a low altitude could very well have saved the tow pilot from an unrecoverable kiting upset.
RIP
PA
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive
TomA visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called positive
TomA visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators. UH
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations:
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!TomA visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators. UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
Uli
'AS'
If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
Ramy
On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations: >>>>>
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
Tom
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators. >>> UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
Uli
'AS'
I agree. When I went looking for my first glider in 1976, I already knew I wantedpositive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
automatic elevator hookup, because an unconnected elevator was a prime cause of accidents
then. Eventually, all new gliders had automatic hookups of all controls, and that source
of accidents is almost zero now. A motor is a potential source of problems, but I can't
think of ones that cause safety problems if you skip an item on the preflight checklist.
On 4/21/2022 5:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
Ramy
On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations: >>>>>
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
--Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
Tom
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
Uli
'AS'
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:05:51 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
I agree. When I went looking for my first glider in 1976, I already knew I wanted
automatic elevator hookup, because an unconnected elevator was a prime cause of accidents
then. Eventually, all new gliders had automatic hookups of all controls, and that source
of accidents is almost zero now. A motor is a potential source of problems, but I can't
think of ones that cause safety problems if you skip an item on the preflight checklist.
On 4/21/2022 5:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
Ramy
On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote: >>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations: >>>>>
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
Gliders with manual control hookups don't get retired, they are just sold to someone else.--Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help. >>> I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
Tom
UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ? >>
Uli
'AS'
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
Tom
If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
Ramy
On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"
If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations: >>>>>
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
Tom
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators. >>> UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
Uli
'AS'
What's more important, getting airborne as quickly as possible or coming back in one piece? I'm not in as big a hurry as I once was.positive control check did not confirm that the connector was properly seated on the ball and the plunger was in the proper position. I also safetied the plunger, which it doesn't sound like that happened.
Dan
5J
On 4/21/22 18:13, Ramy wrote:
If something can be forgotten, it will be forgotten. No checklists will prevent it, since checklists are normally the first thing that get forgotten.
We need to design systems as fool proof as possible, with a very low likelihood that something critical can be forgotten. Modern gliders are pretty close to it. Not sure about motorgliders.
Ramy
On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:45:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:24:28 AM UTC-7, bluej...@gmail.com wrote:
A valuable question was asked in the ASW19 Owners group. "What is the difference between a Positive Control Check and a Critical Assembly Check?"If this turns out to be a disconnected elevator, what is puzzling is a simple visual check of the Hotellier connection would have discovered the error. On my DG400 I always did a positive pull test on the Hotellier connections as a so-called
From the FAA Glider Handbook - Ch 6 Preflight and Ground Operations: >>>>>
"Many manufacturers provide a critical assembly checklist
(CAC) to be completed after assembly, which is the preferred
method of ensuring a proper assembly has been completed.
When provided by the manufacturer, it is mandatory. A
positive control check (PCC) is not a CAC, but an additional
means of verification. If a CAC is provided, it must be used
as is any other checklist a manufacturer provides. A PCC is
not regulatory, but it is a good idea whether or not you just
completed the required CAC."
I found some valuable links worth looking at:
https://www.lescsoaring.com/docs/ControlChecks.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/glider_handbook/gfh_appendix_A.pdf
Make good decisions!
Paul A.
Of course knowing where the safety pin goes is also kind'a important. We found a club ship fully assembled with the safety pins in the big hole on the backside of the wedge, effectively preventing the wedge to close properly!A visual confirmation that the safety pin is in is a very big help.
Tom
I have found 2 on the line "ready to launch" with non connected elevators.
UH
How did that saying about the idiot-proofing a design go again .... ?
Uli
'AS'
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 38:12:16 |
| Calls: | 6,648 |
| Files: | 12,193 |
| Messages: | 5,329,242 |