On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:02:55 PM UTC-5, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

It is my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) that this combination is what is required for good sunlight readability.
My question; is there anyone out there running any of these units with the available soaring software and acceptable results?

Not really an answer to your question, but have you seen Aquila, a 5 inch Android tablet developed as a glide computer solution? It claims 800 nit, and reviews say it is super bright. See the website: https://puregliding.fr/en/

Damn, I wish I had seen this post. I just ordered a refurbished Samsung Note 4.

- Chris Schrader (CN)

Recently I got to see an Aquila in action. Works OK, but is not quite as bright as my old Samsung phone (J7) - neither is bright (contrasty) enough (for my eyes) in full sunshine. The recently-bought Aquila came with Android version 6, which is rather
old, but works OK for the purpose (and my J7 phone has the same version). Personally I'll stick with a Nook (Android 2.x?) or Kobo (Linux?) e-reader, for the high contrast (but black-and-white) e-ink screen. The challenge is to arrange GPS data input
for the e-readers. (All the devices I mentioned run Tophat or XCsoar.)

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On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 12:52:12 PM UTC-7, Moshe Braner wrote:

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:02:55 PM UTC-5, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

It is my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) that this combination is what is required for good sunlight readability.
My question; is there anyone out there running any of these units with the available soaring software and acceptable results?

Not really an answer to your question, but have you seen Aquila, a 5 inch Android tablet developed as a glide computer solution? It claims 800 nit, and reviews say it is super bright. See the website: https://puregliding.fr/en/

Damn, I wish I had seen this post. I just ordered a refurbished Samsung Note 4.

- Chris Schrader (CN)

Recently I got to see an Aquila in action. Works OK, but is not quite as bright as my old Samsung phone (J7) - neither is bright (contrasty) enough (for my eyes) in full sunshine. The recently bought Aquila came with Android version 6, which is rather

old, but works OK for the purpose (and my J7 phone has the same version). Personally, I'll stick with a Nook (Android 2.x?) or Kobo (Linux?) e-reader, for the high contrast (but black-and-white) e-ink screen. The challenge is to arrange GPS data input
for the e-readers. (All the devices I mentioned run Tophat or XCsoar.)

It's been a while since I originally reported on my 7" Android tablet.
Since than I had the opportunity to fly with it (although not that much), compare it to some friend's the new Oudie "N" and the 8" Tripletek PRO.
The screen clarity, sunlight readability and resolution of the Alibaba 7" are just about identical to the Oudie "N", we could not tell the differentiate except for the size.
And to be honest we could not claim the Tripletek 8 clarity and sunlight readability any better that my Alibaba 7" tablet, the only difference noticed was more of a bluish background on the Tripletek 8.
My 7" tablet is kind of on the large size in the cockpit (the Tripletek 8 is even larger), I wish it would be about 1" smaller all around, and IMO the Oudie "N" could be a little larger.
Overall, the 7" Alibaba performs well in all aspects, however, not to be compared with the Kobo which I used the last few years as it beats everything in the sunlight readability front. Of course, the Kobo has a bunch of shortcomings too, but than that
is another topic.

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On 8/2/2022 8:27 PM, 6PK wrote:

It's been a while since I originally reported on my 7" Android tablet.
Since than I had the opportunity to fly with it (although not that much), compare it to some friend's the new Oudie "N" and the 8" Tripletek PRO.
The screen clarity, sunlight readability and resolution of the Alibaba 7" are just about identical to the Oudie "N", we could not tell the differentiate except for the size.
And to be honest we could not claim the Tripletek 8 clarity and sunlight readability any better that my Alibaba 7" tablet, the only difference noticed was more of a bluish background on the Tripletek 8.
My 7" tablet is kind of on the large size in the cockpit (the Tripletek 8 is even larger), I wish it would be about 1" smaller all around, and IMO the Oudie "N" could be a little larger.
Overall, the 7" Alibaba performs well in all aspects, however, not to be compared with the Kobo which I used the last few years as it beats everything in the sunlight readability front. Of course, the Kobo has a bunch of shortcomings too, but than that

is another topic.


Yup. I've connected Nook & Kobo e-readers to external GPS (and FLARM)
data, both wired and wirelessly, if interested please ask.

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I've run a few flights with a Sony Xperia Z3 tablet compact running SeeYou Navigator. It's quite bright enough on a NavPad strapped to my leg - far too big for a RAM mount higher up as it would block the view.

Navigator requires a current Android release, but installing that on the Z3TC is a miserable process, even if you are used to updating Nexus. Search LineageOS Z3TC.

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Something like this should work just fine with an OTG connector.

https://smile.amazon.com/VK-162-G-Mouse-External-Navigation-Raspberry/dp/B01EROIUEW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1QQII6RMRWUCM&keywords=gps+puck&qid=1659541755&sprefix=gps+puk%2Caps%2C239&sr=8-4

Dan
5J

On 8/2/22 13:52, Moshe Braner wrote:

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:02:55 PM UTC-5, cschra...@gmail.com wrote:

It is my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) that this combination is what is required for good sunlight readability.
My question; is there anyone out there running any of these units with the available soaring software and acceptable results?

Not really an answer to your question, but have you seen Aquila, a 5 inch Android tablet developed as a glide computer solution? It claims 800 nit, and reviews say it is super bright. See the website: https://puregliding.fr/en/

Damn, I wish I had seen this post. I just ordered a refurbished Samsung Note 4.

- Chris Schrader (CN)

Recently I got to see an Aquila in action. Works OK, but is not quite as bright as my old Samsung phone (J7) - neither is bright (contrasty) enough (for my eyes) in full sunshine. The recently-bought Aquila came with Android version 6, which is

rather old, but works OK for the purpose (and my J7 phone has the same version). Personally I'll stick with a Nook (Android 2.x?) or Kobo (Linux?) e-reader, for the high contrast (but black-and-white) e-ink screen. The challenge is to arrange GPS data
input for the e-readers. (All the devices I mentioned run Tophat or XCsoar.)

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On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:00:05 PM UTC-4, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 10:42:13 AM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:

Recently I noticed several adds for 1000+ nit 7" or larger Android tablets available with high resolution screens on the internet.
It is my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) that this combination is what is required for good sunlight readability.
My question; is there anyone out there running any of these units with the available soaring software and acceptable results?

The best available is Tripltek, I use them for daylight drone operations, they are expensive and android based. There are two different sizes that I am aware of. They have great battery life and extremely durable. Old Bob, The Purist

I recently purchased a Tripltek and have used it in flight. I've also used a variety of other Android devices over the years. Here are some pros and cons to consider for the Tripltek:
PROS:
* 1,200 nits brightness (similar to a built-in LXNAV screen)
* rugged
* built-in 4G LTE connectivity allows for real-time weather updates without the need for a separate hotspot. I use it with Naviter Navigator to get in-flight Skysight updates.
* wide operating temperature range from 0F to 120F (-18C to 49C). This is an important point as many other regular consumer devices tend to overheat and shut down during flight.
* battery life
CONS:
* Very heavy and bulky. This thing is a brick. You'll need a strong mount directly attached to your cockpit fuselage or strap it to your leg. I wouldn't use this with a suction cup.
* Expensive. At $800 you have to decide whether the pros listed above outweigh the lower cost of - let's say - a $140 Samsung Tab A tablet.
* No pressure sensor.

Here's a quick comparison between a Tripltek 8 and Samsung Tab A 8.0" with LTE:

Brightness: 1,200 vs 377 nits
Battery: 12,200 vs 5,100 mAh
Operating temp: -18 to 49C vs 0 to 35C
Resolution: 2560 x 1600 vs1280 x 800
Weight: 590g vs 345g
Price: $800 vs $144

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I recently purchased a Samsung S10+ from Back Market. I run XC Soar on it while flying and I'm completely satisfied with the screen brightness. I used to use a Dell Streak and the S10 is major upgrade to screen brightness, technology and a nice increase
in size. It also quickly sinks with my LX Nav S10 vario via Bluetooth for data transmission. The S10+ internal GPS also works quite well with the program.

Tom

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On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 7:23:38 AM UTC-6, Thomas Orsini wrote:

I recently purchased a Samsung S10+ from Back Market. I run XC Soar on it while flying and I'm completely satisfied with the screen brightness. I used to use a Dell Streak and the S10 is major upgrade to screen brightness, technology and a nice

increase in size. It also quickly sinks with my LX Nav S10 vario via Bluetooth for data transmission. The S10+ internal GPS also works quite well with the program.

Tom

I run XC Soar on my Samsung Galaxy Note S4. It is bright enough. But I have trouble with reflections on the screen, and am wondering if there is any coating or film I can apply to the screen to mitigate this problem.

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On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-7, johngf...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 7:23:38 AM UTC-6, Thomas Orsini wrote:

I recently purchased a Samsung S10+ from Back Market. I run XC Soar on it while flying and I'm completely satisfied with the screen brightness. I used to use a Dell Streak and the S10 is major upgrade to screen brightness, technology and a nice

increase in size. It also quickly sinks with my LX Nav S10 vario via Bluetooth for data transmission. The S10+ internal GPS also works quite well with the program.

Tom

I run XC Soar on my Samsung Galaxy Note S4. It is bright enough. But I have trouble with reflections on the screen, and am wondering if there is any coating or film I can apply to the screen to mitigate this problem.

Try something like this or similar; https://www.boxwave.com/samsung-galaxy-note-4-screen-protectors/samsung-galaxy-note-4-cleartouch-anti-glare-2-pack-for-galaxy-note-4/bwpdd/cvg-pkpc/

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I've been very satisfied with my Nexus 7 (2013) running TopHat for many years and now XCSoar. The resolution (1920x1200) and nits (583) are still unmatched by any readily available Android device. Its only downside is that it's not had an official OS
update since 2016 and there are now compatibility issues running the latest XCSoar. I solved this problem by installing Lineage (https://lineageos.org/). Lineage breaths new life into no longer supported Android devices. If you decide to follow up on
my suggestion, please read over the Lineage install process thoroughly ... it really helps if you've done some Android development (or know someone who has). Since this update it's work flawlessly but ymmv.
- TomR

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You should also take a look (if you haven't already) at the XDA
developers site. I found a slimmed down version of Kit Kat called
Slimcat that has none of the bloatware of an official release and boots lightening fast. But first you need to root the device. I'll take at
Lineage just for giggles. BTW, I think my Nexus 7 is a 2011 version.

Dan
5J

On 8/12/22 00:03, Tom Roth wrote:

I've been very satisfied with my Nexus 7 (2013) running TopHat for many years and now XCSoar. The resolution (1920x1200) and nits (583) are still unmatched by any readily available Android device. Its only downside is that it's not had an official OS

update since 2016 and there are now compatibility issues running the latest XCSoar. I solved this problem by installing Lineage (https://lineageos.org/). Lineage breaths new life into no longer supported Android devices. If you decide to follow up on
my suggestion, please read over the Lineage install process thoroughly ... it really helps if you've done some Android development (or know someone who has). Since this update it's work flawlessly but ymmv.

- TomR

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After sideloading your chosen version of Android, you then need to sideload a Gapps (Google apps) package to get in the Google apps you want. The Play Store once installed allows you to install any app in the store.

Certain recoveries (installed in the recovery partition) run a dialog that allows you to pick and choose app by app.

For setting up a dedicated tablet or phone, the fewer apps, the better.

Right now my Sony flips on the camera app for no apparent reason and I haven't yet figured out how to stop it or get rid of the app. More challenge than I need in the cockpit.

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On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 11:03:42 PM UTC-7, Tom Roth wrote:

I've been very satisfied with my Nexus 7 (2013) running TopHat for many years and now XCSoar. The resolution (1920x1200) and nits (583) are still unmatched by any readily available Android device. Its only downside is that it's not had an official OS

update since 2016 and there are now compatibility issues running the latest XCSoar. I solved this problem by installing Lineage (https://lineageos.org/). Lineage breaths new life into no longer supported Android devices. If you decide to follow up on my
suggestion, please read over the Lineage install process thoroughly ... it really helps if you've done some Android development (or know someone who has). Since this update it's work flawlessly but ymmv.

- TomR

I experimented some with older and frankly some newer Android phones and tablets, and although some are more sunlight readable than others, one problem I find is heat. Some of them start ghosting or would outright black out permanently.
So, my question would be to Tom; did you have a chance to fly with the Nexus 7 in 100+F weather conditions and to what success?

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I experimented some with older and frankly some newer Android phones and tablets, and although some are more sunlight readable than others, one problem I find is heat. Some of them start ghosting or would outright black out permanently.
So, my question would be to Tom; did you have a chance to fly with the Nexus 7 in 100+F weather conditions and to what success?

I have heard this complaint before and experienced it first hand with the Nook as my flight computer but I've not with the Nexus. Or perhaps I should say, I cannot directly attribute Nexus failures to the temperature. However, I've also flown very few
times when the temperature exceeded 100 degrees ... 110 degrees the last time I flew out of Siskiyou County, northern California. The Nexus did fine that day. I on the other hand, was dangerously close to heat exhaustion while disassembling the glider
after a long afternoon flight! :-( In NW Oregon where I do most of my flying, mid-summer temperatures may get into the low 90's ... again no issues with the Nexus.

However, it's not a problem-free solution:
1) early on in my XCSoar/Android tablet/phone experience, even as a fledgling cross-country pilot I would frequently outlast my flight computer's battery. Turning off the wireless and closing all unnecessary applications/services helped but I soon
learned to fly with a external battery pack in the glider's storage pocket and later installed a USB port on my panel. The (used) Nexus I purchased gave me better battery life but what really made the difference was installing a new, higher power
replacement battery. I now get well over six hours of flight time on a charge. 2) the one time I used the external battery pack with the Nexus, other pilots informed me of garbled radio transmissions. I did not investigate the cause: battery pack, USB cable, Nexus? Also, it didn't seem to be a problem the few times I used the USB
port on my panel.
3) maybe three or four times (in over 200 flights) the Nexus simply lost its mind and wouldn't respond to user input in a timely fashion. Perhaps this was heat related but I don't recall the temperature as being a factor any of those times and certainly
not every time it's happened. At least once a reboot solved the problem and at least once just I turned it off, pulled out my phone, connected to the vario and continued my flight.

Of course, even with hardware/software specifically designed for aviation, you should always have a backup plan to get you home. XCSoar on the Nexus and an Android phone in the cockpit work for me. Both devices are capable of bluetoothing to my vario
or utilize their internal sensors should the vario fail. Anyway, I hope this helps. :-)
- Tom

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On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 1:06:24 AM UTC-7, Tom Roth wrote:

I experimented some with older and frankly some newer Android phones and tablets, and although some are more sunlight readable than others, one problem I find is heat. Some of them start ghosting or would outright black out permanently.
So, my question would be to Tom; did you have a chance to fly with the Nexus 7 in 100+F weather conditions and to what success?

I have heard this complaint before and experienced it first hand with the Nook as my flight computer but I've not with the Nexus. Or perhaps I should say, I cannot directly attribute Nexus failures to the temperature. However, I've also flown very few

times when the temperature exceeded 100 degrees ... 110 degrees the last time I flew out of Siskiyou County, northern California. The Nexus did fine that day. I on the other hand, was dangerously close to heat exhaustion while disassembling the glider
after a long afternoon flight! :-( In NW Oregon where I do most of my flying, mid-summer temperatures may get into the low 90's ... again no issues with the Nexus.

However, it's not a problem-free solution:
1) early on in my XCSoar/Android tablet/phone experience, even as a fledgling cross-country pilot I would frequently outlast my flight computer's battery. Turning off the wireless and closing all unnecessary applications/services helped but I soon

learned to fly with a external battery pack in the glider's storage pocket and later installed a USB port on my panel. The (used) Nexus I purchased gave me better battery life but what really made the difference was installing a new, higher power
replacement battery. I now get well over six hours of flight time on a charge.

2) the one time I used the external battery pack with the Nexus, other pilots informed me of garbled radio transmissions. I did not investigate the cause: battery pack, USB cable, Nexus? Also, it didn't seem to be a problem the few times I used the USB

port on my panel.

3) maybe three or four times (in over 200 flights) the Nexus simply lost its mind and wouldn't respond to user input in a timely fashion. Perhaps this was heat related but I don't recall the temperature as being a factor any of those times and

certainly not every time it's happened. At least once a reboot solved the problem and at least once just I turned it off, pulled out my phone, connected to the vario and continued my flight.

Of course, even with hardware/software specifically designed for aviation, you should always have a backup plan to get you home. XCSoar on the Nexus and an Android phone in the cockpit work for me. Both devices are capable of bluetoothing to my vario

or utilize their internal sensors should the vario fail. Anyway, I hope this helps. :-)

- Tom

Thanks Tom, very informative.

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On 10/17/2022 4:06 AM, Tom Roth wrote:

...
1) early on in my XCSoar/Android tablet/phone experience, even as a fledgling cross-country pilot I would frequently outlast my flight computer's battery. Turning off the wireless and closing all unnecessary applications/services helped but I soon

learned to fly with a external battery pack in the glider's storage pocket and later installed a USB port on my panel. ...

2) the one time I used the external battery pack with the Nexus, other

pilots informed me of garbled radio transmissions...

I've installed USB power ports in several gliders. It usually worked
out OK, but is hit and miss regarding radio noise. The most recent one
I installed turned out to produce strong squelch-breaking noise on some frequencies (123.3, alas) and not others (122.8).

Does anybody have recommendations for specific model voltage converters
that are radio-quiet?

Note that all the standard high-efficiency voltage converters use a
"switching" circuit that turns a current on and off at high frequency, resulting in radio noise. Some have filters within to reduce the noise.
Or you can add external filters such as looping the cable a couple of
times through a ferrite ring.

Also note that an external USB power "bank", too, has a voltage
converter. It typically has a 3.7V lithium polymer cell inside, and
that is converted to 5V output. Same issues.

I have never heard of the radio noise being so bad that it affects
TRANSMISSION though. Try and add filters to the USB cable and/or the
glider's microphone cable?

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On 2022-10-17 09:45, Moshe Braner wrote:
(...)

Does anybody have recommendations for specific model voltage converters
that are radio-quiet?

(...)

See this advice by Andreas Maurer from a few years ago:

Nov 16, 2019, 5:27:00 PM
Never use a 12V car charger, but use an RC UBEC instead that is
usually used to power RC components in model aircraft. These UBECs are
designed to create as little noise as possible in order not to disturb
the RC receiver.

An example: https://www.banggood.com/External-BEC-UBEC-5A-5V-30V-Receiver-Power-Supply-p-1027700.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

Been using many of those for ages. Works like a charm.

-------------------------------
The link that Andreas gives doesn't work any more but I have found the converter he mentions here:

https://alexnld.com/product/external-bec-ubec-5a-5v-30v-receiver-power-supply/

Tom BravoMike

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On Monday, October 17, 2022 at 9:49:21 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:

On 2022-10-17 09:45, Moshe Braner wrote:
(...)

Does anybody have recommendations for specific model voltage converters that are radio-quiet?

(...)

See this advice by Andreas Maurer from a few years ago:

Nov 16, 2019, 5:27:00 PM
Never use a 12V car charger, but use an RC UBEC instead that is
usually used to power RC components in model aircraft. These UBECs are designed to create as little noise as possible in order not to disturb
the RC receiver.

An example: https://www.banggood.com/External-BEC-UBEC-5A-5V-30V-Receiver-Power-Supply-p-1027700.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

Been using many of those for ages. Works like a charm.

-------------------------------
The link that Andreas gives doesn't work any more but I have found the converter he mentions here:

https://alexnld.com/product/external-bec-ubec-5a-5v-30v-receiver-power-supply/

Tom BravoMike

Both Craggy and Cumulus sell power converters, I think other than the name it's six the one half a dozen the other. I had one and using it presently from I think Craggy for many years, never an issue.
I also believe in adding ferrites to both ends of any loose wire connector, maybe it works- maybe a myth, but it can't hurt, it's cheap insurance..

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In a club glider, we had a USB Charger breaking radio squelch when the temperatures warmed up. (Replaced the radio and rewired things before realizing it was the USB supply.) I installed this one and it corrected the problem:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/easmartdualusb.php

Based on my success some other club members also installed the same model in their aircraft with no problems.

Danny Brotto
LS-8/18 "P6"

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