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  • What Killed Kinsell

    From youngblood8116@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 2 15:05:05 2023
    More facts are coming out in reference to the ASH26 motorglider crash that killed Dave Kinsell this past August. Looks like the guy spun in from about 260 feet and hit the terrain at a near 80 degree angle, the engine was extended and the last speed was
    near or less than 50 knots at the turn to final attempt. The final resting place of impact was nearly 90 degrees from the base to final turn, and the oxygen bottle was found 300 feet from impact. Why weren't his shoulder straps buckled, you certainly don'
    t prepare to jump from 260 feet. The glider never reached an altitude higher than his initial climb, although his flight trace showed him trying to thermal on three or four occasions from initial climb to the final impact
    on one previous flight dated 10-22-22 near the same location he decided not to start his engine until he was 263m AGL or 862 feet AGL. Looks like this was a classic stall spin, very unfortunate. OBTP

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to youngbl...@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 15:37:31 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 3:05:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
    More facts are coming out in reference to the ASH26 motorglider crash that killed Dave Kinsell this past August. Looks like the guy spun in from about 260 feet and hit the terrain at a near 80 degree angle, the engine was extended and the last speed
    was near or less than 50 knots at the turn to final attempt. The final resting place of impact was nearly 90 degrees from the base to final turn, and the oxygen bottle was found 300 feet from impact. Why weren't his shoulder straps buckled, you certainly
    don't prepare to jump from 260 feet. The glider never reached an altitude higher than his initial climb, although his flight trace showed him trying to thermal on three or four occasions from initial climb to the final impact
    on one previous flight dated 10-22-22 near the same location he decided not to start his engine until he was 263m AGL or 862 feet AGL. Looks like this was a classic stall spin, very unfortunate. OBTP
    The preliminary report said the mast was partially extended. In the crash pictures, it appeared to be in the "cooling" position, about 30 degrees up from the fuselage. That's normal operation to cool the muffler for about 4-6 minutes after a self-launch.

    860' AGL is sufficient for a safe attempt at restarting IF you are on downwind for a good field, and the glider is configured for landing. One attempt to start is about all the time you have, any fiddling around with a problem becomes very risky.

    The 10-22-22 restart was over hilly, rocky ground, not nearly as benign as the farmland he crashed in this year, but importantly, there was a very good looking dirt strip nearby with a hangar or house next to it. That time he did it right.

    Eric

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From youngblood8116@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Thu Nov 2 16:01:06 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:37:34 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 3:05:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
    More facts are coming out in reference to the ASH26 motorglider crash that killed Dave Kinsell this past August. Looks like the guy spun in from about 260 feet and hit the terrain at a near 80 degree angle, the engine was extended and the last speed
    was near or less than 50 knots at the turn to final attempt. The final resting place of impact was nearly 90 degrees from the base to final turn, and the oxygen bottle was found 300 feet from impact. Why weren't his shoulder straps buckled, you certainly
    don't prepare to jump from 260 feet. The glider never reached an altitude higher than his initial climb, although his flight trace showed him trying to thermal on three or four occasions from initial climb to the final impact
    on one previous flight dated 10-22-22 near the same location he decided not to start his engine until he was 263m AGL or 862 feet AGL. Looks like this was a classic stall spin, very unfortunate. OBTP
    The preliminary report said the mast was partially extended. In the crash pictures, it appeared to be in the "cooling" position, about 30 degrees up from the fuselage. That's normal operation to cool the muffler for about 4-6 minutes after a self-
    launch.

    860' AGL is sufficient for a safe attempt at restarting IF you are on downwind for a good field, and the glider is configured for landing. One attempt to start is about all the time you have, any fiddling around with a problem becomes very risky.

    The 10-22-22 restart was over hilly, rocky ground, not nearly as benign as the farmland he crashed in this year, but importantly, there was a very good looking dirt strip nearby with a hangar or house next to it. That time he did it right.

    Eric
    Yes, that time the engine started. OBTP

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From youngblood8116@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Eric Greenwell on Thu Nov 2 16:03:27 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:37:34 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 3:05:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
    More facts are coming out in reference to the ASH26 motorglider crash that killed Dave Kinsell this past August. Looks like the guy spun in from about 260 feet and hit the terrain at a near 80 degree angle, the engine was extended and the last speed
    was near or less than 50 knots at the turn to final attempt. The final resting place of impact was nearly 90 degrees from the base to final turn, and the oxygen bottle was found 300 feet from impact. Why weren't his shoulder straps buckled, you certainly
    don't prepare to jump from 260 feet. The glider never reached an altitude higher than his initial climb, although his flight trace showed him trying to thermal on three or four occasions from initial climb to the final impact
    on one previous flight dated 10-22-22 near the same location he decided not to start his engine until he was 263m AGL or 862 feet AGL. Looks like this was a classic stall spin, very unfortunate. OBTP
    The preliminary report said the mast was partially extended. In the crash pictures, it appeared to be in the "cooling" position, about 30 degrees up from the fuselage. That's normal operation to cool the muffler for about 4-6 minutes after a self-
    launch.

    860' AGL is sufficient for a safe attempt at restarting IF you are on downwind for a good field, and the glider is configured for landing. One attempt to start is about all the time you have, any fiddling around with a problem becomes very risky.

    The 10-22-22 restart was over hilly, rocky ground, not nearly as benign as the farmland he crashed in this year, but importantly, there was a very good looking dirt strip nearby with a hangar or house next to it. That time he did it right.

    Eric
    Eric, if I was a betting man I would bet that the engine was never started and the partial extension was from the tremendous impact. OBTP

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to youngbl...@gmail.com on Thu Nov 2 16:15:19 2023
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 4:03:29 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 6:37:34 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
    On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 3:05:08 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
    More facts are coming out in reference to the ASH26 motorglider crash that killed Dave Kinsell this past August. Looks like the guy spun in from about 260 feet and hit the terrain at a near 80 degree angle, the engine was extended and the last
    speed was near or less than 50 knots at the turn to final attempt. The final resting place of impact was nearly 90 degrees from the base to final turn, and the oxygen bottle was found 300 feet from impact. Why weren't his shoulder straps buckled, you
    certainly don't prepare to jump from 260 feet. The glider never reached an altitude higher than his initial climb, although his flight trace showed him trying to thermal on three or four occasions from initial climb to the final impact
    on one previous flight dated 10-22-22 near the same location he decided not to start his engine until he was 263m AGL or 862 feet AGL. Looks like this was a classic stall spin, very unfortunate. OBTP
    The preliminary report said the mast was partially extended. In the crash pictures, it appeared to be in the "cooling" position, about 30 degrees up from the fuselage. That's normal operation to cool the muffler for about 4-6 minutes after a self-
    launch.

    860' AGL is sufficient for a safe attempt at restarting IF you are on downwind for a good field, and the glider is configured for landing. One attempt to start is about all the time you have, any fiddling around with a problem becomes very risky.

    The 10-22-22 restart was over hilly, rocky ground, not nearly as benign as the farmland he crashed in this year, but importantly, there was a very good looking dirt strip nearby with a hangar or house next to it. That time he did it right.

    Eric
    Eric, if I was a betting man I would bet that the engine was never started and the partial extension was from the tremendous impact. OBTP
    It's possible, but it might be the extension attempt failed, or the retraction failed. If we had the flight trace with engine noise level, we could make better guesses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)