• Antenna recommendations

    From Mark628CA@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 6 05:53:08 2023
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing the
    antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

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  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 6 08:56:14 2023
    Hi Mark,

    Don't forget that the antenna needs to be mounted (near) vertically to
    match the polarization of all the other transmitters and receivers out
    there.

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/6/23 06:53, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing the
    antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pierre Martiquet@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 05:50:11 2023
    Your antenna and cable are probably in good shape. You may want to change the BNC connector if too rusty.
    To change antenna and cables, you will have to dig holes in the glider.

    You can check your stuff using a common SRW meter. But your new radio will certainly tell you if your antenna is bad

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  • From Mark628CA@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 06:09:17 2023
    You can check your stuff using a common SRW meter. But your new radio will certainly tell you if your antenna is bad

    I will be checking the cable and antenna with an SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) meter this week. If I have a problem, I have been advised to leave the current cable and antenna in place. The suggestion is to run a new cable through the fuselage, looping it
    around the existing coax cable where possible and affixing a new antenna inside the vertical stabilizer in the space between the rudder and the rear fin bulkhead. Fidel at One Air Composites says there is generally enough clearance to avoid friction
    between a thin antenna and the front of the rudder.

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  • From Tim Newport-Peace@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 16:48:45 2023
    On 08/09/2023 14:09, Mark628CA wrote:
    You can check your stuff using a common SRW meter. But your new radio will certainly tell you if your antenna is bad

    I will be checking the cable and antenna with an SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) meter this week. If I have a problem, I have been advised to leave the current cable and antenna in place. The suggestion is to run a new cable through the fuselage, looping it
    around the existing coax cable where possible and affixing a new antenna inside the vertical stabilizer in the space between the rudder and the rear fin bulkhead. Fidel at One Air Composites says there is generally enough clearance to avoid friction
    between a thin antenna and the front of the rudder.

    A SWR meter will only give you the SWR at the frequency selected on your
    radio.

    An Antenna Analyser such as a MFJ: https://mfjenterprises.com/collections/rf-testing/type_antenna-analyzers+company_mfj#collection

    (which I use) will allow you to see the best SWR available, but this may
    not at the frequency you want!

    Mid-airband is at 127MHz which requires a 22inch (give or take) 1/4
    wave, or in a fin about 45 inches for a dipole. There is not always room
    for this in a fin, so compromises may have to be made.

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  • From Chip Bearden@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 09:25:07 2023
    Many years ago, I replaced the coax in my LS3. IIRC, I taped the ends together and pulled the new cable through the existing holes in the fuselage bulkheads but I might have simply looped it around the existing cable. 30+ years ago. Can't remember for
    certain. You kids will understand some day.

    Also installed a homemade center-fed dipole in the space between the rudder and vertical fin after confirming there was room. Taped it in temporarily and tried it. Worked well but highly directional. Did some crude field strength mapping and turns out (
    my interpretation) the existing antenna was likely acting as a parasitic element in an antenna array. Hence the directional pattern. Removed the new antenna. Added a BNC connector to the stub coming out of the existing antenna in the fin, connected it to
    the new cable, and all was well. Still don't know how much, if any, the new coax improved things. My SWR readings were not bad before or after.

    A LOT of work and anxiety. Wouldn't do it again unless I had confirmation the coax was a problem. Worked through the small hole in the vertical fin bulkhead. No new holes cut in fuselage.

    Chip Bearden
    "JB"

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  • From Mark628CA@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 11:45:40 2023
    Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any "easy" way to access the fin antenna for either removal or connector inspection. I guess what I will do first is check with an SWR meter. If the reading is reasonably OK, I will probably leave the antenna
    and cable in place and check again with the new radio. If there is an improvement in RX/TX, I will probably leave it alone. If not, a more complex solution will be considered. Just trying to keep things simple. You know, following the path of least
    resistance. (Humor for the "sparkys.")

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  • From Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilo@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 8 20:30:52 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 2:45:44 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
    Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any "easy" way to access the fin antenna for either removal or connector inspection. I guess what I will do first is check with an SWR meter. If the reading is reasonably OK, I will probably leave the antenna
    and cable in place and check again with the new radio. If there is an improvement in RX/TX, I will probably leave it alone. If not, a more complex solution will be considered. Just trying to keep things simple. You know, following the path of least
    resistance. (Humor for the "sparkys.")
    Your humor, "oh it Hz".
    ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 15 16:04:02 2023
    Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing the
    antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

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  • From 2G@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 15 14:41:22 2023
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing the
    antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Fri Sep 15 18:28:46 2023
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing
    the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built with
    individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 16 09:09:33 2023
    Yup. Outside of college, I started by installing my own-built devices
    in the back plane of a Nova 800 computer, a 16-bit, single-user
    computer. It had 32K words of memory and a 19-inch rack mounted hard
    drive of 5 MB. Imagine: Entering the bootstrap loader via the front
    panel switches, to start from the paper tape reader.

    We've come a long way...

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/15/23 19:28, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the
    Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote: >>>> I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing
    the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built with
    individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Sun Sep 17 21:20:18 2023
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:09:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Yup. Outside of college, I started by installing my own-built devices
    in the back plane of a Nova 800 computer, a 16-bit, single-user
    computer. It had 32K words of memory and a 19-inch rack mounted hard
    drive of 5 MB. Imagine: Entering the bootstrap loader via the front
    panel switches, to start from the paper tape reader.

    We've come a long way...

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 19:28, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the
    Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote: >>>> I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing
    the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built with
    individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G

    I even used a vacuum tube computer in college, an Alwac III-E at OSU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALWAC_III-E#:~:text=The%20ALWAC%20III%2DE%20was,the%20Alwac%20III%20computer%2C%201959.

    Tom 2G

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Marotta@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 18 17:25:04 2023
    You win, Tom. Hands down!

    Dan
    5J

    On 9/17/23 22:20, 2G wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:09:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Yup. Outside of college, I started by installing my own-built devices
    in the back plane of a Nova 800 computer, a 16-bit, single-user
    computer. It had 32K words of memory and a 19-inch rack mounted hard
    drive of 5 MB. Imagine: Entering the bootstrap loader via the front
    panel switches, to start from the paper tape reader.

    We've come a long way...

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 19:28, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: >>>> Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the
    Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote: >>>>>> I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about replacing
    the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built with
    individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G

    I even used a vacuum tube computer in college, an Alwac III-E at OSU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALWAC_III-E#:~:text=The%20ALWAC%20III%2DE%20was,the%20Alwac%20III%20computer%2C%201959.

    Tom 2G

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s.bralla.ret@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 18 20:46:03 2023
    I counted on my fingers. That is a hands down winner.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 2G@21:1/5 to Dan Marotta on Mon Sep 18 21:35:00 2023
    On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 4:25:09 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    You win, Tom. Hands down!

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/17/23 22:20, 2G wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:09:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Yup. Outside of college, I started by installing my own-built devices
    in the back plane of a Nova 800 computer, a 16-bit, single-user
    computer. It had 32K words of memory and a 19-inch rack mounted hard
    drive of 5 MB. Imagine: Entering the bootstrap loader via the front
    panel switches, to start from the paper tape reader.

    We've come a long way...

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 19:28, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: >>>> Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the
    Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about
    replacing the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built
    with individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G

    I even used a vacuum tube computer in college, an Alwac III-E at OSU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALWAC_III-E#:~:text=The%20ALWAC%20III%2DE%20was,the%20Alwac%20III%20computer%2C%201959.

    Tom 2G

    I'm not sure what I "won" - old age?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Greenwell@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 19 06:52:16 2023
    On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 9:20:21 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
    On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 8:09:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Yup. Outside of college, I started by installing my own-built devices
    in the back plane of a Nova 800 computer, a 16-bit, single-user
    computer. It had 32K words of memory and a 19-inch rack mounted hard
    drive of 5 MB. Imagine: Entering the bootstrap loader via the front
    panel switches, to start from the paper tape reader.

    We've come a long way...

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 19:28, 2G wrote:
    On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 3:04:08 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
    Wow! The instrument is much smaller and less expensive than the
    Hewlett-Packard oscilloscope I used in college back in '72.

    Dan
    5J
    On 9/15/23 15:41, 2G wrote:
    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 5:53:11 AM UTC-7, Mark628CA wrote:
    I am thinking about upgrading my radio transceiver in my 40 year old Pegasus. By this time, I wouldn't be surprised if the coax cable to the fin antenna has degraded due to cracked insulation or something like that. Any suggestions about
    replacing the antenna and cable? Or should I just go with a dipole inside the (fiberglass) tail boom? I will test the system with an SWR meter and hope I don't have any issues, but just in case.....

    An SWVR test is a somewhat crude measurement that gives you a gross indication. A far better test is time domain reflectometry (TDR). TDRs used to be very expensive instruments, but not necessarily so these days:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825PZNJJ/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t

    Tom 2G

    Most people have no idea how much stuff they can pack into a VLSI (very large scale integrated) circuit these days, with the most complex having more than 100 BILLION transistors on a single chip. Bear in mind, that I worked with computers built
    with individual transistors hand-soldered into a circuit board, and integrated circuits with a few dozen transistors was considered revolutionary.

    Tom 2G
    I even used a vacuum tube computer in college, an Alwac III-E at OSU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALWAC_III-E#:~:text=The%20ALWAC%20III%2DE%20was,the%20Alwac%20III%20computer%2C%201959.

    Tom 2G
    Me, too, but it was the IBM 709. We didn't get to even approach it, but just handed over a punched card deck to get our programs run. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_709

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)