At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com
wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board withWe had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in
its destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
We should be careful not to jump to conclusions about what we already know. On 7/26/23 3:12 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:Ford just finished building the V-8 powered F-150 I ordered. They also started discounting their electric F-150 Lightning 10K cause they're not selling very well.
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car, somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com
wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board withWe had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in
its destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:20:47 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
We should be careful not to jump to conclusions about what we already know. >> On 7/26/23 3:12 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:Ford just finished building the V-8 powered F-150 I ordered. They also started discounting their electric F-150 Lightning 10K cause they're not selling very well.
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com
wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board withWe had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in
its destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,If fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV cars
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:were the best by10:1 or more than the those cars
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
DanIf fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV cars
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
USA: https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden: https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 8:25:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:cars were the best by10:1 or more than the those cars
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car, somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
DanIf fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly, no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire. The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihoodUSA: https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1You should try actually reading your reference:
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden: https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
"The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many EVs catch fire each year or
This article explains the deception revolving around the statistics of car fires:occur while parked, which points to completely different failure mechanisms. I have commented in the past about the issue of dendrite growth, an issue that has not been solved. Have you ever heard of an ICE manufacturer advising you not to fill the gas
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/
Also, car fires occur predominantly with old cars. The EV fleet has not had time to age 30+ years. We all know how electrical components, especially connectors, degrade with age. Also, ICE fires mainly occur while in motion, whereas EV fires mostly
Tom 2G
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 8:25:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:cars were the best by10:1 or more than the those cars
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car, somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
DanIf fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly, no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire. The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihoodUSA: https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1You should try actually reading your reference:
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden: https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
"The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many EVs catch fire each year or
This article explains the deception revolving around the statistics of car fires:occur while parked, which points to completely different failure mechanisms. I have commented in the past about the issue of dendrite growth, an issue that has not been solved. Have you ever heard of an ICE manufacturer advising you not to fill the gas
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/
Also, car fires occur predominantly with old cars. The EV fleet has not had time to age 30+ years. We all know how electrical components, especially connectors, degrade with age. Also, ICE fires mainly occur while in motion, whereas EV fires mostly
Tom 2GI provided two references, not just one, and I read them both :^)
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 10:07:17 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:cars were the best by10:1 or more than the those cars
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 8:25:50 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car, somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
DanIf fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly, no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire. The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihoodUSA: https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1You should try actually reading your reference:
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden: https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
"The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many EVs catch fire each year or
occur while parked, which points to completely different failure mechanisms. I have commented in the past about the issue of dendrite growth, an issue that has not been solved. Have you ever heard of an ICE manufacturer advising you not to fill the gasThis article explains the deception revolving around the statistics of car fires:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/
Also, car fires occur predominantly with old cars. The EV fleet has not had time to age 30+ years. We all know how electrical components, especially connectors, degrade with age. Also, ICE fires mainly occur while in motion, whereas EV fires mostly
major hazard of any car, regardless of it's propulsion system, is not fires, but crashing into things due to driver mistakes. That also applies to gliders, regardless of it's launch system, where the major hazard is not fires, but crashing into thingsTom 2GI provided two references, not just one, and I read them both :^)
None of the studies or articles I read were definitive, but the major point I wanted to make is the similarity of the results in the US and Sweden experiences, suggesting to me the basic claims about rates were correct. We should also remember the
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:were the best by10:1 or more than the those cars
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,If fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden, that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire at a lower rate, but all-electric EV cars
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
USA: https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden: https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
Studies aside, I haven't heard of a roro carrying only diesel or
gasoline powered cars burning out of control at sea. Seems only those
with some sort of EV cars want to burn down to the water line (and
beyond, I imagine).
I'm sure you can find a study to down play the above, but I think a lot
of the "studies" and news reports are promulgated to support the narrative.
Dan
5J
On 7/28/23 21:25, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,If fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com
wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board withWe had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in
its destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden,
that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire
at a lower rate, but all-electric EV cars were the best by10:1 or more
than the those cars
USA:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1
* click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden:
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
Here's a very good video from a knowledgeable firefighter talking about
how car carrier ships have changed over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E&t=613s
Very good photos showing the damage in detail.
Car carriers have become less safe, and throwing electric vehicles into
the mix makes for a bad combination.
-Dave
On 7/29/23 9:15 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Studies aside, I haven't heard of a roro carrying only diesel or
gasoline powered cars burning out of control at sea. Seems only those with some sort of EV cars want to burn down to the water line (and
beyond, I imagine).
I'm sure you can find a study to down play the above, but I think a lot
of the "studies" and news reports are promulgated to support the narrative.
Dan
5J
On 7/28/23 21:25, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:12:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sheesh... Every time I start thinking about getting a hybrid car,If fire is a big concern for you, stay away from hybrids, according to
somebody posts another reminder of why I shouldn't.
Dan
5J
On 7/26/23 14:57, Charlie M. (UH, Pi & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:13:35 AM UTC-4, mrop...@gmail.com >>>> wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with >>>>> its destination being Egypt..We had a roro in port NY a few weeks ago that burned about a week in >>>> port, what a mess. It was loaded with cars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
studies over the last 2 or 3 years, one in the US and one in Sweden,
that came to the same conclusion. Gasoline and diesel cars caught fire
at a lower rate, but all-electric EV cars were the best by10:1 or more
than the those cars
USA:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires?slide=1 >> * click on the photos to move through the article
Sweden:
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 9:57:51 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:What is distressing to me is how RoRo glider shipment safety
Here's a very good video from a knowledgeable firefighter talking about how car carrier ships have changed over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E&t=613s
Very good photos showing the damage in detail.
Car carriers have become less safe, and throwing electric vehicles into the mix makes for a bad combination.
-Dave
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 9:57:51 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
Here's a very good video from a knowledgeable firefighter talking about how car carrier ships have changed over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E&t=613s
Very good photos showing the damage in detail.
Car carriers have become less safe, and throwing electric vehicles into the mix makes for a bad combination.
-Dave
What is distressing to me is how RoRo glider shipment safety
seems to be threatened by all of these recent fires which have
happened due to whatever reasons. Over the years I have shipped
gliders across oceans 17 times now. The first couple were
shipped using a freighter, and the slings damaged one trailer
slightly. Thereafter, I have used RoRos due to the overall ease
(no stevedores needed to pack/load/unload a container), cost,
safety (glider axle and tongue tied down below decks and out
of the wx), etc. Using a RoRo has made shipping a glider quite
easy. Now, the dynamics may have changed so that even with
the risk of a container falling overboard (and sitting outside in
the wx, etc), shipping a glider in a container may become the
preferable option even if there is wasted space with sometimes
only one in a container. It seems like we may be experiencing a
paradigm shift in being able to safely ship our gliders around
the world.
Mike Opitz
RO
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 2:02:14 PM UTC-7, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:The article says containers are becoming the economical choice for ALL cars, because there is a growing shortage of RoRo capacity. The only mention of EVs is when the website owner touts their ability "for the multi-modal handling of hazardous cargo,
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 9:57:51 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
Here's a very good video from a knowledgeable firefighter talking about
how car carrier ships have changed over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E&t=613s
Very good photos showing the damage in detail.
Car carriers have become less safe, and throwing electric vehicles into
the mix makes for a bad combination.
-Dave
What is distressing to me is how RoRo glider shipment safety
seems to be threatened by all of these recent fires which have
happened due to whatever reasons. Over the years I have shipped
gliders across oceans 17 times now. The first couple were
shipped using a freighter, and the slings damaged one trailer
slightly. Thereafter, I have used RoRos due to the overall ease
(no stevedores needed to pack/load/unload a container), cost,
safety (glider axle and tongue tied down below decks and out
of the wx), etc. Using a RoRo has made shipping a glider quite
easy. Now, the dynamics may have changed so that even with
the risk of a container falling overboard (and sitting outside in
the wx, etc), shipping a glider in a container may become the
preferable option even if there is wasted space with sometimes
only one in a container. It seems like we may be experiencing a
paradigm shift in being able to safely ship our gliders around
the world.
Mike OpitzMany RoRo's are banning EVs because of the extreme risk. An alternative is to ship them in containers where any fire would be contained:
RO
https://www.metroshipping.co.uk/news/more-car-makers-need-containers-as-roro-crisis-grows/
Granted, this will increase shipping costs, which are passed on to the consumer.
Tom 2G
On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 11:04:34 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:including lithium batteries and EVs, which are now considered dangerous goods." My understanding is the RoRo shortage is affecting glider deliveries, not just cars.
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 2:02:14 PM UTC-7, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 9:57:51 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
Here's a very good video from a knowledgeable firefighter talking about
how car carrier ships have changed over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E&t=613s
Very good photos showing the damage in detail.
Car carriers have become less safe, and throwing electric vehicles into
the mix makes for a bad combination.
-Dave
What is distressing to me is how RoRo glider shipment safety
seems to be threatened by all of these recent fires which have
happened due to whatever reasons. Over the years I have shipped
gliders across oceans 17 times now. The first couple were
shipped using a freighter, and the slings damaged one trailer
slightly. Thereafter, I have used RoRos due to the overall ease
(no stevedores needed to pack/load/unload a container), cost,
safety (glider axle and tongue tied down below decks and out
of the wx), etc. Using a RoRo has made shipping a glider quite
easy. Now, the dynamics may have changed so that even with
the risk of a container falling overboard (and sitting outside in
the wx, etc), shipping a glider in a container may become the
preferable option even if there is wasted space with sometimes
only one in a container. It seems like we may be experiencing a
paradigm shift in being able to safely ship our gliders around
the world.
Mike OpitzMany RoRo's are banning EVs because of the extreme risk. An alternative is to ship them in containers where any fire would be contained:
RO
https://www.metroshipping.co.uk/news/more-car-makers-need-containers-as-roro-crisis-grows/
Granted, this will increase shipping costs, which are passed on to the consumer.
Tom 2GThe article says containers are becoming the economical choice for ALL cars, because there is a growing shortage of RoRo capacity. The only mention of EVs is when the website owner touts their ability "for the multi-modal handling of hazardous cargo,
On 7/26/23 8:13 AM, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its
destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
If this is bad, just wait until they start shipping hydrogen cars:
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/engulfed-in-flames-fuel-cell-bus-in-california-destroyed-as-hydrogen-tanks-explode-during-refuelling/2-1-1488705
Hydrogen powered bus in Bakersfield CA was filling at a brand spanking
new filling station, now just a smoking hole in the ground.
See also the "explosion after explosion" link embedded in that article.
One thing about hydrogen, it does make lithium batteries look downright
safe (on a relative basis).
On 7/26/23 9:59 AM, kinsell wrote:I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV but there is a small but important difference between a Hydrogen filled tank exploding and a 'Hydrogen Bomb' going off. Just sayin' .... ;-)
On 7/26/23 8:13 AM, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its
destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
If this is bad, just wait until they start shipping hydrogen cars:
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/engulfed-in-flames-fuel-cell-bus-in-california-destroyed-as-hydrogen-tanks-explode-during-refuelling/2-1-1488705
Hydrogen powered bus in Bakersfield CA was filling at a brand spanking
new filling station, now just a smoking hole in the ground.
See also the "explosion after explosion" link embedded in that article.
One thing about hydrogen, it does make lithium batteries look downright safe (on a relative basis).In a shocking turnaround, Ms Karen King, CEO of Golden Empire Transit
has retracted an earlier statement that hydrogen tanks exploded, now
saying it's too early to draw conclusions. Just because people saw and
heard explosions doesn't mean it was hydrogen, perhaps kids in the neighborhood were setting off fireworks that night.
I'm going waaay out on a limb here, but I'd bet good money they actually
did explode. Perhaps Ms King (hope I'm getting her/its pronouns
correct) received a phone call from somebody, cautioning about going
against The Narrative.
I'm sure living in Bakersfield is bad enough, but having hydrogen bombs going off in your neighborhood would just add to the misery.
.... but having hydrogen bombs going off in your neighborhood .... <<
On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 2:55:43 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 7/26/23 9:59 AM, kinsell wrote:
On 7/26/23 8:13 AM, mrop...@gmail.com wrote:In a shocking turnaround, Ms Karen King, CEO of Golden Empire Transit
At least this one probably doesn't have many gliders on board with its >>>> destination being Egypt..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66310280
If this is bad, just wait until they start shipping hydrogen cars:
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/engulfed-in-flames-fuel-cell-bus-in-california-destroyed-as-hydrogen-tanks-explode-during-refuelling/2-1-1488705
Hydrogen powered bus in Bakersfield CA was filling at a brand spanking
new filling station, now just a smoking hole in the ground.
See also the "explosion after explosion" link embedded in that article.
One thing about hydrogen, it does make lithium batteries look downright
safe (on a relative basis).
has retracted an earlier statement that hydrogen tanks exploded, now
saying it's too early to draw conclusions. Just because people saw and
heard explosions doesn't mean it was hydrogen, perhaps kids in the
neighborhood were setting off fireworks that night.
I'm going waaay out on a limb here, but I'd bet good money they actually
did explode. Perhaps Ms King (hope I'm getting her/its pronouns
correct) received a phone call from somebody, cautioning about going
against The Narrative.
I'm sure living in Bakersfield is bad enough, but having hydrogen bombs
going off in your neighborhood would just add to the misery.
I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV but there is a small but important difference between a Hydrogen filled tank exploding and a 'Hydrogen Bomb' going off. Just sayin' .... ;-).... but having hydrogen bombs going off in your neighborhood .... <<
Uli
'AS'
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Governmentfunding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV but there is a small but important difference between a Hydrogen filled tank exploding and a 'Hydrogen Bomb' going off. Just sayin' .... 😉
Uli
'AS'
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:58:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Government
Here's another informative article, turns out they were producing theirThere isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of course
the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD
GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about
themselves.
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130
degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm
reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F. >>
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their
transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.html
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some
eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry
noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to
three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of
flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and >> convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when
they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a
great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Government
Here's another informative article, turns out they were producing their
own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of course
the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD
GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about themselves.
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130
degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F.
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.htmlThere isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry
noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to
three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when
they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a
great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
According to some Italians
On 8/1/23 10:28 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:58:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Government
Not really like any of "our gliders", eh? And, they call it an "aircraft", not a motorglider.Well, there is this: https://www.compositesworld.com/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-hy4-aircraft-takes-flight oHere's another informative article, turns out they were producing their >> own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of courseThere isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD
GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about
themselves.
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130
degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm
reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F.
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their >> transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.html
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some
eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry
noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to
three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of >> flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and
convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when
they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a
great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
A Hydrogen powered motorglider.. maybe old news and it's been retired now. I hear they're working on turbine testbeds now.
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 9:02:18 AM UTC-7, Sarah Anderson wrote:funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
On 8/1/23 10:28 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:58:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Government
Not really like any of "our gliders", eh? And, they call it an "aircraft", not a motorglider.Well, there is this: https://www.compositesworld.com/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-hy4-aircraft-takes-flight oHere's another informative article, turns out they were producing their >>>> own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of courseThere isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD
GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about
themselves.
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130
degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm
reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F. >>>>
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their >>>> transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.html
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some
eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry
noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to
three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of >>>> flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and >>>> convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when
they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a >>>> great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
A Hydrogen powered motorglider.. maybe old news and it's been retired now. I hear they're working on turbine testbeds now.
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 9:02:18 AM UTC-7, Sarah Anderson wrote:funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and obtained funding
On 8/1/23 10:28 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:58:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness. Government
Not really like any of "our gliders", eh? And, they call it an "aircraft", not a motorglider.Well, there is this: https://www.compositesworld.com/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-hy4-aircraft-takes-flight oHere's another informative article, turns out they were producing their >>>> own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of courseThere isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD
GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about
themselves.
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130
degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm
reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F. >>>>
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their >>>> transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.html
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some
eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry
noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to
three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of >>>> flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and >>>> convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when
they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a >>>> great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
A Hydrogen powered motorglider.. maybe old news and it's been retired now. I hear they're working on turbine testbeds now.
On 8/1/23 3:44 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:Government funding of flawed technology that eventually contributes more to pollution and energy inefficiency than the product it is supposed to replace is not going to save the world, assuming it needs saving. I'm surprised nobody has promoted and
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 9:02:18 AM UTC-7, Sarah Anderson wrote:
On 8/1/23 10:28 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:58:30 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
On 8/1/23 5:04 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
It is a sad commentary on our political and educational situation where basic engineering principles and the laws of physics and thermodynamics are sacrificed on the altar of misinformation, "virtue signaling," and political correctness.
Yes, gliders are aircraft, motorgliders are gliders, ergo motorglidersNot really like any of "our gliders", eh? And, they call it an "aircraft", not a motorglider.Well, there is this: https://www.compositesworld.com/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-hy4-aircraft-takes-flight oHere's another informative article, turns out they were producing their >>>> own hydrogen on-site, using (drum roll please} natural gas. Of course >>>> the buses have huge green lettering on them, proclaiming BAKERSFIELD >>>> GOES GREEN. Millions of dollars wasted to make them feel good about >>>> themselves.There isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?
Fire department says temps at the filling station never exceeded 130 >>>> degrees during the incident. Looking at the cell phone footage, I'm >>>> reasonably confident they were well over that mark, whether that's C or F.
Meanwhile, the "investigation" continues with multiple agencies
involved, but GET can't name a single one of them. Don't you love their >>>> transparency? I don't know what's worse, lying politicians, or the
people stupid enough to believe them.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/get-withholds-video-of-hydrogen-fueling-station-fire/article_9c4594c0-2bf8-11ee-b849-13207abd8d14.html
Turns out hydrogen is less flammable than gasoline, according to some >>>> eggheads:
"An article published March 29, 2020 in the journal General Chemistry >>>> noted the high-purity hydrogen used for fuel cell vehicles is two to >>>> three times less flammable than gasoline but that it has a wide range of
flammable concentrations, from 4% to 75% in air."
According to some Italians, "hydrogen is generally a “safe, reliable and
convenient technology." Wonder if they had some political agenda when >>>> they wrote that? But I agree, if you want to blow something up, it's a >>>> great choice. Powering buses, cars, airplanes, not so much.
A Hydrogen powered motorglider.. maybe old news and it's been retired now. I hear they're working on turbine testbeds now.
are aircraft. I'm struggling to understand your point. And you don't
think there's any room for changes in how gliders look?
If you need something that looks like "our gliders", how about this one?
https://sustainableskies.org/the-aos-h2-hydrogen-powered-motor-glider/
Or if Antares is more your style, take a look at the DLS-H2:
https://www.dlr.de/tt/en/Portaldata/41/Resources/dokumente/ec/Antares-DinA5-V6_E_WEB.pdf
Looks almost like the Stemme Elfin, before they moved the range extender inside the fuse.
So yes, there is activity in the area. But of more immediate concern is
that 'our gliders' are routinely transported by cargo ships. The number
of fires that have been occurring has to potential to disrupt the
shipping industry as we know it, leading to much higher rates, or bans
on transporting certain cargo. Perhaps someday a Jeta will be ready to
ship to you, and you find out shipping restrictions make that
impractical. As pointed out previously, whatever problems electrical
cars are currently causing are magnified manyfold if they go to hydrogen.
There isn't any effort by anyone to power our gliders with hydrogen. Why are you spending so much effort on RAS to warn us about it's dangers?when I mentioned it in a previous thread.)
https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/stories/2022-07-how-blue-condor-will-accelerate-airbus-first-hydrogen-powered-test-flights
OK, the Blue Condor project is not actually "powering" the Arcus but is supposed to analyze the result of burning hydrogen in a turbine powerplant as it may affect the generation of water-based contrails. (A concept Eric pooh-poohed as insignificant
I'm happy to see that some actual research is being done, but I am also very disappointed that one of the four jet-powered Arcus glider we built was sacrificed by sticking a couple of big-ass 10,000 psi gaseous hydrogen tanks in the rear cockpit andreplacing the PBS TJ-100 turbojet engine with some sort of hydrogen burning turbine. From what I have heard, the two big tanks supply enough hydrogen fuel to run about seven minutes, and do not provide enough thrust to launch.
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