This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations. When inRome......
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:in Rome......
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations. When
Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have muchmore respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.
Why should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Why should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand," Members should already know the procedures, but a visitor is unlikely to know or guess correctly about the procedures, as they can vary greatly from one place to
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Hi Larry.club got visited by one.
There is really nothing new about this in our sport. Many years ago a friend told me, "There are two kinds of people in this sport - 'givers' and 'takers'". We all know who the givers are. We all occasionally have to tolerate the takers. I'm sorry your
ROY
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:When in Rome......
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have much
another. Many clubs publish their procedures on their website, making it a lot easier for a visitor to do the right thing.Why should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Why should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand," Members should already know the procedures, but a visitor is unlikely to know or guess correctly about the procedures, as they can vary greatly from one place to
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Most of the places I've flown recently (Ely, Parowan, Williams, Methow State, Ephrata, Siskiyou), it's easy for towed and self-launchers to share the runway. One line for towed gliders, one line for self-launchers, with towed having priority, but evenwith three tow planes, there are plenty of opportunities for the self-launchers to take off, as they occupy the runway for only 30-40 seconds, much less time than a towed launch. Hibiscus is tiny by comparison to those sites, so two lines may not be
… We made repeated attempts to reach him by tracking his N number registration, and when finally reached, he refused to move his rig.
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:52:55 AM UTC-4, Larry Ruggiero wrote:
… We made repeated attempts to reach him by tracking his N number registration, and when finally reached, he refused to move his rig.
Name and shame!Nahh - we don't need to go there (yet)!
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:33:36 PM UTC-4, stephen.s...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:52:55 AM UTC-4, Larry Ruggiero wrote:
… We made repeated attempts to reach him by tracking his N number registration, and when finally reached, he refused to move his rig.
him. That was declined. too! When we asked him to move his glider and trailer to a more appropriate place and even offered our help, he replied that I was 'uninviting' and he only did what the airport manager told him to do. Buddy - that argument didn'tName and shame!Nahh - we don't need to go there (yet)!
But to add some more details: when he called me on the club's number several weeks ago, I offered to come out and help him find an appropriate spot so he is not in anybody's the way. That was declined! I also offered to do an orientation flight with
BTW - the airport manager has no recollection of talking to him. I am yet to find out whom he actually talked to.against us - club member or not!
The grass-strip he partially blocked is not only used by us. Sometimes, Ultralights and tail-draggers use it to hone their skills in landing on grass. We are skating on thin ice with our operation at this busy airport and any infraction is counting
N'uff said!Time has come, name that tune and lets stop all the speculation. All clubs should be advised of this pilot and it would even be better if the guy came out and told his side of the story. I hate to tell you guys this but I will be away for a few days
Uli
'AS'
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:in Rome......
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations. When
Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have muchmore respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.
Why should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:When in Rome......
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have much
self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does not delay towsWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not allowed to
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:When in Rome......
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have
self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does not delay towsWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not allowed to
Fitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings, just askthe late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The Purist
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:When in Rome......
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have
self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does not delay towsWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not allowed to
Fitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings, just askthe late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The Purist
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:When in Rome......
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have
to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does not delay towsWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not allowed
ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings, just
Well Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a laterlaunch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operations there
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote: >>>>>>> This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established operations.
much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I have
to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does not delay towsWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not allowed
ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings, just
later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operationsWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a
matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same. >> No, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R or LFitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn't
Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact, it'smore pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I
allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does notWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not
ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings, just
later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operationsWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a
Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn'tmatter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.
No, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R or L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line and think
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I
allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does notWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not
just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings,
later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operationsWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a
matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn't
36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line andNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R or L
Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact, it'smore pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:42:03 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I
allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does notWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not
just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings,
later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operationsWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a
matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn't
L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line andNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R or
s more pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact, it'
Bob is simply choosing to be obtuse to suit his prejudices. Improperly run, any operation can be a goat rodeo. Properly run, *any* motorglider on the field makes life better for *every* towed pilot: one less glider to tow means the average time fromramp to thermal is lower. Bob just hates them and isn't motivated to make it work to everyone's (including his) advantage. I've no problem with a "wait your turn for an open runway". To keep a runway full with towplanes takes at least three, and very
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:42:03 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn. I
allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does notWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not
just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings,
later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most glider operationsWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get a
matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn't
L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line andNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R or
s more pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact, it'
Bob is simply choosing to be obtuse to suit his prejudices. Improperly run, any operation can be a goat rodeo. Properly run, *any* motorglider on the field makes life better for *every* towed pilot: one less glider to tow means the average time fromramp to thermal is lower. Bob just hates them and isn't motivated to make it work to everyone's (including his) advantage. I've no problem with a "wait your turn for an open runway". To keep a runway full with towplanes takes at least three, and very
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:03:10 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:42:03 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
I have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their turn.
allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It does notWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are not
just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you wings,
a later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most gliderWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will get
t matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it doesn'
or L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line andNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R
it's more pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact,
ramp to thermal is lower. Bob just hates them and isn't motivated to make it work to everyone's (including his) advantage. I've no problem with a "wait your turn for an open runway". To keep a runway full with towplanes takes at least three, and veryBob is simply choosing to be obtuse to suit his prejudices. Improperly run, any operation can be a goat rodeo. Properly run, *any* motorglider on the field makes life better for *every* towed pilot: one less glider to tow means the average time from
Yes Fitch, the proverbial goat rodeo happens more often than most realize, don't forget that 70% of our flights are training flights that include new solo pilots that we have no problem with them landing in the middle of the runway and creating havocfrom time to time.
I have also seen experienced motorglider and purist do the same thing and a steerable tailwheel doesn't help with anything at our place of operation. We do not have the luxury of multiple runways, we must make do with what we have. As I stated earlier,ask before assuming, don't just taxi your pompous butt to the front and expect everything to be ok, the person that you irritate will probably be sitting in that next to go position, as the gentleman I assume you to be I am sure you agree. OBTP
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 7:39:44 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:03:10 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:42:03 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
turn. I have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their
not allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It doesWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are
wings, just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you
get a later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most gliderWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will
doesn't matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it
or L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting line andNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a R
it's more pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait your turn",Bob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in fact,
from ramp to thermal is lower. Bob just hates them and isn't motivated to make it work to everyone's (including his) advantage. I've no problem with a "wait your turn for an open runway". To keep a runway full with towplanes takes at least three, andBob is simply choosing to be obtuse to suit his prejudices. Improperly run, any operation can be a goat rodeo. Properly run, *any* motorglider on the field makes life better for *every* towed pilot: one less glider to tow means the average time
from time to time.Yes Fitch, the proverbial goat rodeo happens more often than most realize, don't forget that 70% of our flights are training flights that include new solo pilots that we have no problem with them landing in the middle of the runway and creating havoc
earlier, ask before assuming, don't just taxi your pompous butt to the front and expect everything to be ok, the person that you irritate will probably be sitting in that next to go position, as the gentleman I assume you to be I am sure you agree. OBTPI have also seen experienced motorglider and purist do the same thing and a steerable tailwheel doesn't help with anything at our place of operation. We do not have the luxury of multiple runways, we must make do with what we have. As I stated
Your "place of operation" is a grass strip where it may not be possible to taxi a motor glider with small wingtip wheels (these are typically skateboard wheels). A proficient pilot would use his/her landing momentum to steer off of the "runway" beforethe wing dropped. I operate off of hard-surfaced runways with taxiways such as Ely, NV.
Tom 2GTerrible Tommy, I have a jar of Peter Pan crunchy waiting just for you. OBTP
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 12:50:33 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:operations. When in Rome......
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 7:39:44 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 8:03:10 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 12:42:03 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 9:05:33 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 10:47:33 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:34:44 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 12:05:45 PM UTC-4, Mark628CA wrote:
This is not an unusual incident at many "destination" soaring operations. All too often, clueless visitors disrupt normal procedures, and require polite, but firm, instruction about how to blend in with minimal impact on established
turn. I have much more respect for those that wait their turn and contribute to the operation of the club.Both Larry and Mark make excellent points of view in regarding operational behavior at glider operations both private and public. Our club has experienced incidents where some pilots motor to the front of the line or just wait their
not allowed to self launch in the gaps between tows without any reason other than "waiting your turn", then that is not a friendly gliderport. Note that I did not say "not a motorglider friendly gliderport", I said "not a friendly gliderport". It doesWhy should and member or visitor be given instruction about lending a helping hand, after all soaring is a social activity that requires many to operate and function smoothly."Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break."
Bring you self launch to Vero, pull in front of those waiting for a tow and you will find an angry old tow pilot with a Pawnee parked in front of your sorry butt and taking a lunch break. OBTP
Old Bob, that is just pure spite. Of course a visiting pilot, motorglider or towed glider, should coordinate to fit into the existing operation. I do not excuse for a second the behavior described in the OP. However if motorgliders are
wings, just ask the late Andy McQuigg, wait your turn for takeoff. Fitch, you MG guys are not privileged, get in line or get the hell out of the way. Old Bob, The PuristFitch, Bro, when a person is sitting in their JS3 and some MG guy scoots in front and is there waiting while the tow plane is on final, then we have a problem! Pull that crap on me and I will rub peanut butter on the leading edge of you
get a later launch than otherwise: the MG will need to get staged by hand, run up, occupy the runway for a period of time that could have been used to tow a glider. Yes, the MG pilot must chose a truly idle interval on the runway, but at most gliderWell Bob, it sounds like you run a very inefficient operation there. An idle runway is a wasting asset. By making the self launchers wait in line with the towed gliders, you are virtually guaranteeing that the towed gliders behind them will
doesn't matter if it is a motorglider or pure glider the inconsideration is the same.Fitch, yes it is not only bad form but rude and inconsiderate to just jump to the front of the line, as I have stated I have once used the peanut butter and would not hesitate to do so again. We agree on one aspect of this discussion and it
R or L 36-18, now if the Motorglider pilot was kind and respectful enough to make contact and as permission to jump to the front of the line we would certainly take that request into consideration, but don't just pass along the side of the waiting lineNo, we don't run a different operation here than most others, our operation runs smoothly and efficiently as most any other, our policy is the same for all, get in line and wait your turn. We operate off one runway, don't have the luxury of a
fact, it's more pleasant for both types when that's done. It's possible that Hibiscus simply isn't suitable, but the fact a MG can taxi up to the front of the line suggests it is possible to run a dual operation. Develop a procedure (dual, "wait yourBob, Bob, Bob: MG pilots do understand the concept of coordinating with the towed operation at the field, but most of us fly from airports that can easily accommodate towed and powered gliders without requiring everyone to be in one line; in
from ramp to thermal is lower. Bob just hates them and isn't motivated to make it work to everyone's (including his) advantage. I've no problem with a "wait your turn for an open runway". To keep a runway full with towplanes takes at least three, andBob is simply choosing to be obtuse to suit his prejudices. Improperly run, any operation can be a goat rodeo. Properly run, *any* motorglider on the field makes life better for *every* towed pilot: one less glider to tow means the average time
havoc from time to time.Yes Fitch, the proverbial goat rodeo happens more often than most realize, don't forget that 70% of our flights are training flights that include new solo pilots that we have no problem with them landing in the middle of the runway and creating
earlier, ask before assuming, don't just taxi your pompous butt to the front and expect everything to be ok, the person that you irritate will probably be sitting in that next to go position, as the gentleman I assume you to be I am sure you agree. OBTPI have also seen experienced motorglider and purist do the same thing and a steerable tailwheel doesn't help with anything at our place of operation. We do not have the luxury of multiple runways, we must make do with what we have. As I stated
before the wing dropped. I operate off of hard-surfaced runways with taxiways such as Ely, NV.Your "place of operation" is a grass strip where it may not be possible to taxi a motor glider with small wingtip wheels (these are typically skateboard wheels). A proficient pilot would use his/her landing momentum to steer off of the "runway"
Tom 2GTerrible Tommy, I have a jar of Peter Pan crunchy waiting just for you. OBTP
Point is, let’s be the good operators and stewards of our fine sport, particularly as visitors. Just because we think we can operate how we’d prefer at a public use airport doesn’t mean we should ignore club rules of engagement.
Larry Ruggiero, Carolina Soaring Association
Spartanburg SC
also.Point is, let’s be the good operators and stewards of our fine sport, particularly as visitors. Just because we think we can operate how we’d prefer at a public use airport doesn’t mean we should ignore club rules of engagement.
Larry Ruggiero, Carolina Soaring Association
Spartanburg SC
Hello Larry,
A few weeks ago, a fellow club member and I drove to Moriarty to do some flying. Our airport has been under a super high pressure atmosphere and thermals were just staying home or waking up late--or actually, not getting up at all.
We spoke with Whitney (Merlin Aviation versus Sundance) and received a good briefing. My glider needed a tow plane and my friend could self-launch. I learned how to fit in with the locals, and my self-launch friend learned how to fit in with the locals,
Additionally, we visited with the airport manager (by the way, a hugely nice person). He told us the local procedures and rules. He also gave me his card and told me that if I landed out, I just had to call him and he would take care of business. Hetold me about good landing airfields--and bad ones. He was so nice that I was going to go out of my usual way to avoid landing out--yuk yuk.
By middle week, locals treated us like locals. We were helped with launching, helped with with after-landing procedures, helped with disassembly, invited to the local meeting and debriefing station, invited to visit private hangars, invited to supper (pizza or private bar-b-qued steak), conversation, and much more.
Diplomacy and etiquette are the keys.
Raul Boerner
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