XPost: aalt.war.world-war-two, soc.history.war.misc, sci.military.naval

Brent Cooper
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Trial and appellate counsel for Cooper & Scully (1993–present)Mon
Can we say that relations between Russia and Poland are the most
complicated not only in Europe but also in the world?

Katyn Forest Massacre

I wouldn’t. I would say that the relations between Poland and Russia are
very simple.

Russia joined with the Nazis to invade Poland and split it with the
Nazis. Poland will never forget this. Never.

Poland will never forget what Russia did to its citizens.

Poland will never forget the Katyn Forest Massacre

Poland will never forget how it’s freedom was taken away.

Poland is going to make certain that this never happens again. Never!

Poland does not take its freedom and security for granted.

Poland will always be prepared for aggression by Russia.

Poland will never believe or trust anything done by Russia. It is that
simple.

40.8K views
View 3,764 upvotes
View 18 sharesAnswer requested by
Тимур Россолов
1 of 10 answers
Profile photo for Lee Fjellanger

Profile photo for Sally Garner
Sally Garner
· Mon
Poland has definitely go the measure of the Z-land gangsters, I have so
much respect for Poland

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Javier Hernandez
· Mon
Don’t you just love how when Putin talks about how Russia sacrificed so
much to stop the Nazis and that the world should be grateful, he
conveniently leaves out how Stalin started the war alongside Hitler?

Profile photo for Xavier Pagès
Xavier Pagès
· Mon
And helped the Germans develop their tanks and planes to bypass treaty limitations… And supplied them with the oil for their war machine.

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Marilyn Paton
The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because they
were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good
position of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800
military bases world wide but China a d Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair
· Mon
Well. I have been to Russia. Sort of. Took a train from Helsinki to St Petersburg, then a train to Moscow. Stayed in both cities. Aint Russia.
I am amazed that Putin does not say that USSR, as was, signed a non
aggression pact with Germany. Russia signed an agreement with another
bunch of dictators. Lies , lies and lies. I assume that the spitfires
sent to USSR, the British convoys to USSR did not exist? Of those 2
countries, one is still a dictatorship.

Profile photo for Richard Mosley
Richard Mosley
· Mon
And England. Should support that future freedom 100 %. With the
unforgotten gratitude for the help given by their soldier's sailor's and
airmen who all fought alongside us in WW2.

Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair
· Mon
There is a Polish war memorial just North of London. I do not forget
what the Russians did to Poland and the Polish people. I, equally , do
not forget, how and why Polish people came to Britain. We are in your debt.

David Salter
London Borough of Hillingdon just off the A40 near RAF Northolt.
Profile photo for Péter Tajthy
Péter Tajthy
· 22h
And foot soldiers.

And bears…

Wojtek (bear)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)
Brent Cooper
·
Follow
Trial and appellate counsel for Cooper & Scully (1993–present)Mon
Can we say that relations between Russia and Poland are the most
complicated not only in Europe but also in the world?

Katyn Forest Massacre

I wouldn’t. I would say that the relations between Poland and Russia are
very simple.

Russia joined with the Nazis to invade Poland and split it with the
Nazis. Poland will never forget this. Never.

Poland will never forget what Russia did to its citizens.

Poland will never forget the Katyn Forest Massacre

Poland will never forget how it’s freedom was taken away.

Poland is going to make certain that this never happens again. Never!

Poland does not take its freedom and security for granted.

Poland will always be prepared for aggression by Russia.

Poland will never believe or trust anything done by Russia. It is that
simple.

40.8K views
View 3,764 upvotes
View 18 sharesAnswer requested by
Тимур Россолов
1 of 10 answers
Profile photo for Lee Fjellanger

Profile photo for Sally Garner
Sally Garner
· Mon
Poland has definitely go the measure of the Z-land gangsters, I have so
much respect for Poland

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Javier Hernandez
· Mon
Don’t you just love how when Putin talks about how Russia sacrificed so
much to stop the Nazis and that the world should be grateful, he
conveniently leaves out how Stalin started the war alongside Hitler?

Profile photo for Xavier Pagès
Xavier Pagès
· Mon
And helped the Germans develop their tanks and planes to bypass treaty limitations… And supplied them with the oil for their war machine.

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Marilyn Paton
The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because they
were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good
position of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800
military bases world wide but China a d Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair
· Mon
Well. I have been to Russia. Sort of. Took a train from Helsinki to St Petersburg, then a train to Moscow. Stayed in both cities. Aint Russia.
I am amazed that Putin does not say that USSR, as was, signed a non
aggression pact with Germany. Russia signed an agreement with another
bunch of dictators. Lies , lies and lies. I assume that the spitfires
sent to USSR, the British convoys to USSR did not exist? Of those 2
countries, one is still a dictatorship.

Profile photo for Richard Mosley
Richard Mosley
· Mon
And England. Should support that future freedom 100 %. With the
unforgotten gratitude for the help given by their soldier's sailor's and
airmen who all fought alongside us in WW2.

Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair
· Mon
There is a Polish war memorial just North of London. I do not forget
what the Russians did to Poland and the Polish people. I, equally , do
not forget, how and why Polish people came to Britain. We are in your debt.

David Salter
London Borough of Hillingdon just off the A40 near RAF Northolt.
Profile photo for Péter Tajthy
Péter Tajthy
· 22h
And foot soldiers.

And bears…

Wojtek (bear)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)


Profile photo for Sally Garner
Sally Garner
· Mon
Poland has definitely go the measure of the Z-land gangsters, I have so
much respect for Poland

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Javier Hernandez
· Mon
Don’t you just love how when Putin talks about how Russia sacrificed so
much to stop the Nazis and that the world should be grateful, he
conveniently leaves out how Stalin started the war alongside Hitler?

Profile photo for Xavier Pagès
Xavier Pagès
· Mon
And helped the Germans develop their tanks and planes to bypass treaty limitations… And supplied them with the oil for their war machine.

Profile photo for Javier Hernandez
Marilyn Paton
The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because they
were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good
position of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800
military bases world wide but China a d Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair
· Mon
Well. I have been to Russia. Sort of. Took a train from Helsinki to St Petersburg, then a train to Moscow. Stayed in both cities. Aint Russia.
I am amazed that Putin does not say that USSR, as was, signed a non
aggression pact with Germany. Russia signed an agreement with another
bunch of dictators. Lies , lies and lies. I assume that the spitfires
sent to USSR, the British convoys to USSR did not exist? Of those 2
countries, one is still a dictatorship.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: aalt.war.world-war-two, soc.history.war.misc, sci.military.naval

On 25/07/2023 20:10, Martin Littlefair wrote:

The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because they
were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good
position of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800 military bases world wide but China and Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair

Lets do a little reality check here. In 1939 the US Army was smaller
than almost every army in Europe. It had less than 190,000 men who had
no armoured vehicles, what little artillery they had most consisted of
French made pieces that were already obsolete by 1918.

The USAAC was equally miniscule and its equipment was equally obsolete.
The US Army had no armoured vehicles to speak of. On an open field of
battle the Polish would have wiped out the US Army in a day, then
consider what the Wehrmacht would have done.

The first flight of the B-17 was in September 1942, by that point the
RAF had defeated the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain and had made the
first 1000 bomber raid over Germany.

All this changed after Pearl Harbour when the isolationist US Congress
finally voted for the spending that was needed. As for making money from
the war, by this stage the UK had spent its entire reserves in foreign
currency and gold becoming reliant on Lend Lease as did the USSR.
Without Lend Lease Briatin and the Empire would have had to sue for peace.

When talking of the USSR lets recall how much aid they got from Britain
- see https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1946/apr/16/russia-british-empire-war-assistance#:~:text=from%201st%20October%2C%201941%2C%20to%2031st%20March%2C%201946.,is%20approximately%20%C2%A3120%20million.


a small part of that was :

Tanks: 5,218, of which 1,388 were supplied by Canada. All tanks were
shipped with ammunition.

Vehicles(includes lorries and ambulances): 4,020.

Machinery Lorries: 323.

Bren Carriers and Carriers including Starting and Charging equipment:
1,212 to which should be added 1,348 from Canada.

Motor Cycles:1,721.

Tank and Bren Carrier Spares and Maintenance Equipment:20,145 tons.

Other vehicle spares and Maintenance Equipment:4,090 ton#

While everybdy has heard of the T-34 lets us not forget that without US
and British trucks the Soviets could never have got supplies to the
front line

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: aalt.war.world-war-two, soc.history.war.misc, sci.military.naval

On 7/25/23 14:43, Keith Willshaw wrote:

On 25/07/2023 20:10, Martin Littlefair wrote:

The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because
they were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good
position of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800
military bases world wide but China and Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair

Lets do a little reality check here. In 1939 the US Army was smaller
than almost every army in Europe. It had less than 190,000 men who had
no armoured vehicles, what little artillery they had most consisted of
French made pieces that were already obsolete by 1918.

The USAAC was equally miniscule and its equipment was equally obsolete.
The US Army had no armoured vehicles to speak of. On an open field of
battle the Polish would have wiped out the US Army in a day, then
consider what the Wehrmacht would have done.

The first flight of the B-17 was in September 1942, by that point the
RAF had defeated the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain and had made the first 1000 bomber raid over Germany.

All this changed after Pearl Harbour when the isolationist US Congress finally voted for the spending that was needed. As for making money from

Yes, indeed. It seems at times that critics and cynics seem
to forget that we do have a democratic form of government.
And the majority of US citizens were very unhappy after WWI
that we lost many, for no gain to us. Then POTUS Wilson's
ideas got ignored.
FDR was leading us towards being ready for war as fast as anyone
could.

I quite enjoyed Boris Johnson's boo "The Churchill Factor".

the war, by this stage the UK had spent its entire reserves in foreign currency and gold becoming reliant on Lend Lease as did the USSR. > Without Lend Lease Briatin and the Empire would have had to sue for

peace.

When talking of the USSR lets recall how much aid they got from Britain
- see https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1946/apr/16/russia-british-empire-war-assistance#:~:text=from%201st%20October%2C%201941%2C%20to%2031st%20March%2C%201946.,is%20approximately%20%C2%A3120%20million.

a small part of that was :

Tanks: 5,218, of which 1,388 were supplied by Canada. All tanks were
shipped with ammunition.

Vehicles(includes lorries and ambulances): 4,020.

Machinery Lorries: 323.

Bren Carriers and Carriers including Starting and Charging equipment:
1,212 to which should be added 1,348 from Canada.

Motor Cycles:1,721.

Tank and Bren Carrier Spares and Maintenance Equipment:20,145 tons.

Other vehicle spares and Maintenance Equipment:4,090 ton#

While everybdy has heard of the T-34 lets us not forget that without US
and British trucks the Soviets could never have got supplies to the
front line

Do not forget about SPAM !

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: soc.history.war.misc, sci.military.naval

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:u9pfli$17mgo$1@dont-email.me...

On 25/07/2023 20:10, Martin Littlefair wrote:

The same goes for the US hence why they joined the war late because they
were making money from both sides which put them in a pretty good position
of control after the war. Still in Germany and Japan and 800 military
bases world wide but China and Russia are the aggressors
Profile photo for Martin Littlefair
Martin Littlefair

Lets do a little reality check here. In 1939 the US Army was smaller
than almost every army in Europe. It had less than 190,000 men who had
no armoured vehicles, what little artillery they had most consisted of
French made pieces that were already obsolete by 1918.

The USAAC was equally miniscule and its equipment was equally obsolete.
The US Army had no armoured vehicles to speak of. On an open field of
battle the Polish would have wiped out the US Army in a day, then
consider what the Wehrmacht would have done.

----------------
What little money the US military could beg from Congress was spent on R&D
of more modern equipment and long lead time items like battleships. That's
why we had ten new fast battleships that could keep up with aircraft
carriers, six commissioned in 1941-42 and four more for the offensives of
1944, but not enough smaller vessels which the Navy knew could be built
faster when a threat materialized and prompted the funding.

The WW1-style battleships damaged at Pearl Harbor were too slow for
offensive operations beyond shore bombardment. They served well in the
static defense of Surigao Strait and might have crippled Yamato's gun laying accuracy if they fired while maneuvering, which Yamato's partly manual fire control couldn't compensate for but their automated systems could. A cruiser may have destroyed Bismarck's gunnery accuracy.

Aircraft design was guesswork until actual combat showed what was really needed. Many nations guessed wrong, producing such aircraft as the Boulton
Paul Defiant interceptor which couldn't handle escorted bombers and the similarly vulnerable Me-110. The B-17 struggled to survive in Europe until escorted though it did better in the Pacific theater, which received and did well with the aircraft Europe rejected. The Zero seemed ideal until its weaknesses became apparent. The difference between the two theaters as well
as combat in Russia shows how difficult the war's needs had been to predict. For instance mass strategic bombing was vital in Europe and Japan and nearly non-existent elsewhere, notably Russia.

A great non-military advantage of the US over longer-settled nations was experience and equipment for developing and supplying vast new territory. We had air-transportable bulldozers to rapidly carve out new runways while the Japanese were using shovels and wheelbarrows. European colonial experience
had been on a much smaller scale and had depended more on railroads which
are vulnerable and slower to build though better for hauling ore.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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