XPost: sci.military.naval, soc.history.war.misc, rec.aviation.military.naval

from https://www.newsweek.com/putins-great-black-sea-fleet-total-waste-retired-us-general-1744230


Putin's Great Black Sea Fleet Is 'Total Waste': Retired U.S. General
BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 9/19/22 AT 2:39 PM EDT

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Russian President Vladimir Putin's Black Sea Fleet has been a "total
waste" as his forces struggle on land and in the water amid the war in
Ukraine, according to a retired U.S. general.

Speaking in a video released Monday as part of a Renew Democracy
Initiative series with New Debate, former Commanding General of U.S.
Army Europe Ben Hodges said that before February 24, when the war began, Russia's Black Sea Fleet "controlled basically the entire Black Sea."

"But over the past six months, we've watched a realization that the
Russian navy is no better than the Russian army," Hodges said.

When the war began, many expected Russia's army to achieve a speedy
victory. But as the war stretched on for days, weeks and then months,
while Ukrainian forces fiercely resisted, Russia's image as a superior
military force began to crumble.

NEWSWEEK NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP >
Russian Black Sea Fleet 'Total Waste'
The Russian Navy’s Kilo-class submarine Rostov-na-Donu B-237 enters the Bosphorus Strait on the way to the Black Sea on February 13, 2022, in
Istanbul, Turkey. Russian President Vladimir Putin's Black Sea Fleet has
been a "total waste" as his forces struggle on land and in the water
amid the war in Ukraine, according to a retired U.S. general.
OGUZ YETER/DIA IMAGES VIA GETTY IMAGES
The change in perception is true for Russia's navy as well, according to Hodges.

He mentioned the sinking of Russia's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva,
which was worth an estimated $750 million. While Ukraine said at the
time that it struck the ship and caused it to sink, Russia said that it
was an onboard fire that led to the ship's demise. The U.S. did not
immediately confirm how the Moskva was damaged, but it ultimately
concluded that two Ukrainian missiles hit the warship, The Washington
Post reported, citing a senior U.S. defense official.

Hodges said that several other Russian vessels in the Black Sea have
been downed in recent months. Ukrainian drone and missile strikes on
Snake Island, which was previously Russian-occupied, damaged or
destroyed several smaller ships docked at the Black Sea outpost,
Politico reported.

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Now, the Russian fleet is "terrified to go anywhere near the Ukrainian coastline" and has been hiding behind Crimea, Hodges said.

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"The Great Black Sea Fleet, other than their submarines, I think, is a
total waste. It hasn't been in the fight," he added. "And as Ukrainian
forces get closer and closer to Crimea, soon they're going to be able to
start launching HIMARS [High-Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems] rockets
and other rockets into Sevastopol, making it untenable for the Russian
Black Sea Fleet."

Crimea is a peninsula that has been Russian-occupied since 2014, but
Ukraine and the U.S. continue to assert that it is part of Ukraine.
Sevastopol is Crimea's largest city and a major Black Sea port.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky vowed last month that his forces
would regain control of Crimea as it also works to free other areas of
Ukraine from Russian occupation.

"I know that Crimea is with Ukraine, is waiting for us to return," he
said while speaking at Crimea Platform. "I want all of you to know that
we will return. We need to win the fight against Russian aggression.
Therefore, we need to free Crimea from occupation.

"It began with Crimea, it will end with Crimea."

Newsweek reached out to the Russian Defense Ministry for comment.

David
6 hours ago
Putin has done to Russia what the west could never have dreamed. Russia
is being vilified internationally as a warmonger, ostracized
economically by sanctions, isolated geographically by Sweden and Finland joining NATO, and completely embarrassed militarily by Ukraine on all
fronts. We are witnessing the geopolitical meltdown of the century.

FabricatorGeneral
7 hours ago
When you lose your flagship to a nation with no navy, you know you're
bad at war.
Remember the immortal words of the brave sailors at Snake Island.

Jess
1 hour ago
Is even worse if they blame it on 2 smoking sailors. How embarrassing.

Doug Walmer
3 hours ago
Set the tone for Ukraine's response and now victory is getting more
possible every day

Victor
4 hours ago

Former Commanding US Army Europe Gen. Ben Hodges said before Feb. 24,
when the war began, Russia's Black Sea Fleet "controlled basically the
entire Black Sea." "But over the past six months, we've watched a
realization the Russian navy is no better than the Russian army. Now,
the Russian fleet is "terrified to go anywhere near the Ukrainian
coastline" and has been hiding behind Crimea. "The Great Black Sea
Fleet, other than their submarines, I think, is a total waste. It hasn't
been in the fight," he added. "And as Ukrainian forces get closer and
closer to Crimea, soon they're going to be able to start launching
HIMARS and other rockets into Sevastopol, making it untenable for the
Russian Black Sea Fleet."

Yeah, this about sums up the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Ever since it lost
it's flagship Moskva, and other vessels the Ukrainians have been able to
sink, it is 'terrified'.

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XPost: sci.military.naval, soc.history.war.misc, rec.aviation.military.naval

On 09/19/2022 07:40 PM, a425couple wrote:

from https://www.newsweek.com/putins-great-black-sea-fleet-total-waste-retired-us-general-1744230

Putin's Great Black Sea Fleet Is 'Total Waste': Retired U.S. General
BY ZOE STROZEWSKI ON 9/19/22 AT 2:39 PM EDT

Some other comments that seem worthwhile:

David Morris
3 hours ago

I think the issue here is that Putin saw what the US did in Iraq and
figured he could do that too.

Without taking into account multiple factors.

1) Iraq had 70s tech
2) Iraq was poorly motivated
3) the US has excellent logistics
4) goat herders with a death wish, while fierce don’t make good soldiers.
5) the US spent time mobilizing and didn’t do it adhoc like Russia did.
6) the US has a lot more money than Russia does.
7) the US took advantage of ethnic infighting to gain allies in Iraq.
8) last but not least the US is capable of better coordination with its
armed forces and has decades of multi-spectrum war experience.

Ukraine, after 2014 spent a lot of money and time on up keeping their
military. Much of what they have is late 80s tech.. almost on par with
Russia.
Ukrainians aren’t goat herders and are highly motivated, nor is there
ethnic infighting in Ukraine (well, not outside the Donbas anyhow).
Russia has not been in an actual war since Chechnya in the early 2000s
and have very little operational experience.

Putin did not take any of that into account.


Bulldog
2 hours ago

I think of Putin:
He genuinely believed he was adored in Ukraine and that they were going
to welcome him with open arms and flower garlands.
He never for a second thought Ukraine had the means to take down a forty
mile long armoured column. Not even with Western weaponry.
No one with a lower rank than himself had guts enough to tell him the
truth from the inception of his mad plan.
His believed his army was elite and unparalleled in size, technological capability and sheer savagery.
With Belarus onside Kiev could be partitioned quickly and easily.
He thought Zelensky was a clown, a showman, that he would run at the
first sign of a real threat.
There would be no rules: his men could kill, maim and rape to their
hearts content because it would all be over in three to five days and everything would be suppressed concealed and controlled by his
propaganda team, the expulsion of independent reporters and the closing
of the borders of Ukraine and it's skies.
At no time must it become a 'war'. It should be considered more of a
dispute between neighbours involving a reclaiming of stolen territory.
Most importantly he knew that the EU, UK, US and NATO would do nothing, absolutely NOTHING to supply manpower or strategic weapons once
threatened with nuclear war.
This was years in the planning and I am sure known only to an elite few.
And Putin and the guilty crew never, ever imagined it would snowball
into what it has. They expected a few sanctions and a verbal
chastising...the end.


Moses
6 hours ago
As Mike Tyson says, “everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth”.

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