• The Passing of Western Civilization

    From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 13:08:42 2022
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7245304/

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  • From Dean Markley@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Jul 21 10:52:38 2022
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:09:02 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7245304/

    Very doom & gloom article. I disagree with the contention that "We live at a time of unique contradictions, confusions and uncertainties". With enough analysis and depending on viewpoint, every time in history has had unique contradictions, confusions
    and uncertainties.

    The contention that western civilization reached a pinnacle in the middle of the 20th century is easily demonstrated as false. Look at the recent accomplishments of SpaceX, the James Web Space Telescope and the amazing response to develop vaccines upon
    the outbreak of the Covid pandemic. Look at the way the West is standing up to Russian and Chinese aggression.

    Life expectancy continues to increase. Even more countries are reaching out into space. While at times maddening, more and more governments are accepting climate change as real and starting to implement measures to alleviate it.

    Will we still have wars? Indeed. Will China continue to ascend? I think so but would not be surprised to see them regress either.

    Articles like this are good because they make people think. But they are also intended to point you to a certain way of thinking. Is the Western way (if that is a way) the best? So far, it seems to be.

    Dean

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Jul 21 18:14:08 2022
    "Dean Markley" wrote in message news:f39f5e19-93cf-4741-a1ff-f5f1511c0949n@googlegroups.com...

    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:09:02 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7245304/

    Very doom & gloom article. I disagree with the contention that "We live at
    a time of unique contradictions, confusions and uncertainties". With enough analysis and depending on viewpoint, every time in history has had unique contradictions, confusions and uncertainties.

    The contention that western civilization reached a pinnacle in the middle of the 20th century is easily demonstrated as false. Look at the recent accomplishments of SpaceX, the James Web Space Telescope and the amazing response to develop vaccines upon the outbreak of the Covid pandemic. Look
    at the way the West is standing up to Russian and Chinese aggression.

    Life expectancy continues to increase. Even more countries are reaching out into space. While at times maddening, more and more governments are
    accepting climate change as real and starting to implement measures to alleviate it.

    Will we still have wars? Indeed. Will China continue to ascend? I think
    so but would not be surprised to see them regress either.

    Articles like this are good because they make people think. But they are
    also intended to point you to a certain way of thinking. Is the Western way (if that is a way) the best? So far, it seems to be.

    Dean

    -------------------------

    I agree with you but his arguments still worth considering, if only to pick apart. I've been reading about the time of Stilicho and Aetius and we are
    far above that level. I do think we will pull back from trying to enforce
    world peace because the evidence is that humanity isn't close to ready for
    it, there are too many insoluble ancient disputes we suppressed but could
    never solve.

    Progress has always depended on a very small number of usually secretive innovators. The popular writers who predict the future are rarely competent
    to create or understand the changes themselves, or the science behind them.

    I not only study the history of human advances, I was a participant, a lab
    tech who built prototypes. After I post this I'll return to the alternate energy project taking form on my milling machine.

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  • From Matthew@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 18:50:02 2022
    The rise and decline of civilizations in history is well documented, yet oddly ignored in today’s dialogue. Contemporary civilization is assumed to be immune from forces that shaped cycles of past civilizations—that our age is somehow an exception.

    yup, it is very difficult for me to understand how blind, frankly, most people are. People are too busy consuming and indulging to be paying attention to the warning signs, too complacent to study history and perceive the patterns.

    habitat destruction, diminishing biodiversity and climate change along with rising inequality, debt, conflict and refugee flows

    However, the article has a huge blind spot, it mostly just focuses on material/financial problems, neglecting moral/spiritual disintegration.

    Richard T. Gill writes of "an accumulation of data showing that intact biological parent families offer children very large advantages compared to any other family or non-family structure one can imagine." Correspondingly, the disadvantages associated
    with single-parent families spill over into other areas of social policy that now attract great public concern.

    There is a mountain of scientific evidence showing that when families disintegrate children often end up with intellectual, physical, and emotional scars that persist for life.... We talk about the drug crisis, the education crisis, and the problems of
    teen pregnancy and juvenile crime. But all these ills trace back predominantly to one source: broken families.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20120320122326/http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/formans/DefiningDeviancy.htm


    suggesting a comprehensive collective intelligence enterprise be launched to prepare for the global transition facing humanity.

    I agree. But there's no saving this ship, we must separate and start over.

    After a time of decay comes the turning point.... The old is discarded and the new is introduced.... Societies of people sharing the same views are formed.
    I Ching chapter 24

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  • From Matthew@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 18:53:15 2022
    Dean, US life expectancy has been on the way down lately, actually

    Life Expectancy In U.S. Drops For First Time In Decades, Report Finds https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/12/08/504667607/life-expectancy-in-u-s-drops-for-first-time-in-decades-report-finds

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  • From jtmpreno@21:1/5 to Dean Markley on Thu Jul 21 22:02:18 2022
    On 7/21/2022 10:52 AM, Dean Markley wrote:
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:09:02 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7245304/

    Very doom & gloom article. I disagree with the contention that "We live at a time of unique contradictions, confusions and uncertainties". With enough analysis and depending on viewpoint, every time in history has had unique contradictions,
    confusions and uncertainties.

    The contention that western civilization reached a pinnacle in the middle of the 20th century is easily demonstrated as false. Look at the recent accomplishments of SpaceX, the James Web Space Telescope and the amazing response to develop vaccines
    upon the outbreak of the Covid pandemic. Look at the way the West is standing up to Russian and Chinese aggression.

    Life expectancy continues to increase. Even more countries are reaching out into space. While at times maddening, more and more governments are accepting climate change as real and starting to implement measures to alleviate it.

    Will we still have wars? Indeed. Will China continue to ascend? I think so but would not be surprised to see them regress either.

    Articles like this are good because they make people think. But they are also intended to point you to a certain way of thinking. Is the Western way (if that is a way) the best? So far, it seems to be.

    Dean


    I was born in the middle of the 20th century and I have always had a
    vague feeling that things have been going downhill ever since.

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  • From Dean Markley@21:1/5 to Matthew on Fri Jul 22 04:35:37 2022
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 9:53:16 PM UTC-4, Matthew wrote:
    Dean, US life expectancy has been on the way down lately, actually

    Life Expectancy In U.S. Drops For First Time In Decades, Report Finds https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/12/08/504667607/life-expectancy-in-u-s-drops-for-first-time-in-decades-report-finds

    If you read the article, it states that it is probably a blip. Although the numbers are from 5 years ago, I am sure the Covid pandemic will also cause a blip.

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  • From Matthew@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 22 07:14:25 2022
    probably a blip

    but it wasn't.

    The average life expectancy in the U.S. has been on the decline for three consecutive years.

    The last three years represent the longest consecutive decline in the American lifespan at birth since the period between 1915 and 1918, which included World War I and the Spanish Flu pandemic

    The U.S. isn’t alone. A study projected the U.K. lifespan will shorten by about five months. While life expectancy is still on the rise in France, Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, those countries have also seen a sharp slowdown.

    While there’s no single cause for the decline in the U.S., a report by the CDC highlights three factors contributing to the decline.

    A rise in drug overdoses
    An increase in liver disease
    A rise in suicide rates https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/09/us-life-expectancy-has-been-declining-heres-why.html

    Record levels of obesity, diabetes, cancer, mental illness, suicide, drug dependency, drug overdose, family breakdown, incarceration, debt, and gun violence. Native fertility rates are negative (literally degenerate). This is not a healthy country.

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  • From Matthew@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 22 07:13:20 2022
    probably a blip

    but it wasn't.

    The average life expectancy in the U.S. has been on the decline for three consecutive years.

    The last three years represent the longest consecutive decline in the American lifespan at birth since the period between 1915 and 1918, which included World War I and the Spanish Flu pandemic

    The U.S. isn’t alone. A study projected the U.K. lifespan will shorten by about five months. While life expectancy is still on the rise in France, Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, those countries have also seen a sharp slowdown.

    While there’s no single cause for the decline in the U.S., a report by the CDC highlights three factors contributing to the decline.

    A rise in drug overdoses
    An increase in liver disease
    A rise in suicide rates https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/09/us-life-expectancy-has-been-declining-heres-why.html

    Record levels of obesity, diabetes, cancer, mental illness, suicide, drug dependency, drug overdose, family breakdown, incarceration, debt, and gun violence. Native fertility rates are negative (literally degenerate). This is not a healthy county.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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