THE WORLD'S FIRST MANNED LH2 POWERED FUEL-CELL ELECTRIC AIRCRAFT!

The potential of LH2 powered flight is awesome, given this fact:

The gravimetric energy density of a fuel is the amount of energy that
can be released by a given mass of
fuel. It is typically measured in megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg) 12.

Liquid hydrogen has a gravimetric energy density of 141.8 MJ/kg 3. In comparison, gasoline has a
gravimetric energy density of 46 MJ/kg 13. Therefore, liquid hydrogen
has a 300%+ higher gravimetric
energy density than gasoline.

However, at this point in development, the efficiency of electrolysis
is ~70-80%, and the efficiency of fuel-cells is about ~60%.

What makes electric motive power of automobiles and aircraft viable
today is the dismal ~20% efficiency of internal-combustion engines
compared to electric motors ~98% efficiency.

https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/
“Fueled with green hydrogen produced by Air Liquide at its French
liquefaction facility, […]”

Green hydrogen is hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water, using renewable electricity such as photovoltaics (solar).



===================================================================== https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/

H2FLY completes world’s ‘first’ manned liquid hydrogen flight with fuel
cell aircraft
By Charlie Currie
on Sep 07, 2023

Germany’s H2FLY has completed the world’s “first” manned liquid hydrogen-powered flight of a fuel cell electric aircraft in a
demonstration in Maribor, Slovenia.

Fuelled with green hydrogen produced by Air Liquide at its French
liquefaction facility, the HY4 aircraft on Thursday (September 7) took
off from the Aerodrom Maribor, taking to the skies for around 10
minutes before successfully landing.

Having completed four liquid hydrogen-powered flights as part of the
initial test campaign, H2FLY says one flight lasted over three hours,
using just 10kg of hydrogen, of the 24kg available on board.

Following on from over 110 successful gaseous hydrogen-fuelled test
flights, the liquid system is estimated to have doubled the HY4’s range
from 750km to 1,500km, with the company confident that flights of up to
eight hours will be possible.

Compared to gaseous hydrogen, the energy carrier’s liquid form offers
higher energy density, allowing for more to be stored onboard the
aircraft.

“The achievement marks a watershed moment in the use of hydrogen to
power aircraft,” remarked Prof. Josef Kallo, co-founder and CEO of
H2FLY. “Together with our partners, we have demonstrated the viability
of liquid hydrogen to support medium and long-range emissions-free
flight.”


Air Liquide’s 24kg liquid hydrogen storage system

Equipped with an aluminium liquid hydrogen tank, supplied and
integrated by Air Liquide, the HY4 aircraft’s 120kW PEM fuel cells
evaporate the liquid hydrogen using their excess heat to allow them to
be powered.

Air Liquide Advanced Technologies’ Innovation Director, Pierre Crespi, expressing pride to have been a part of the project, said, “Today’s
success demonstrates the full potential of liquid hydrogen for
aviation. Liquid hydrogen can be stored onboard and transported.”

Although the HY4 aircraft will not enter commercial operations, H2FLY
is confident the liquid hydrogen powertrain system developed as part of
the innovative aircraft will pave the way for commercial hydrogen-
powered flight.

In June (2023), the Stuttgart-based company announced a new programme
to develop a next generation fuel cell system to produce megawatt-class powertrains to power 40-seater aircraft.

Read more:H2FLY announces new fuel cell programme to take hydrogen-
powered flight higher

The HY4 has been developed as part of the EU-backed Project HEAVEN, led
by H2FLY, with participation from Air Liquide, Pipistrel Vertical
Solutions, the DLR German Aerospace Centet, and EKPO Fuel Cell
Technologies and Fundación.

Dr. Syed Asif Ansar, Head of the Department Energy System Integration
at DLR, said the flight represented an achievement in aviation history.

“This progressive journey culminates in a significant present
achievement in aviation history: the utilisation of cryogenic liquefied hydrogen as fuel storage for a four-seater aircraft powered by fuel
cells,” he said.

Additionally, the HY4 has received funding from the German Federal
Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action (BMWK), the German
Federal Ministry for Digital and Transport (BMVD) and the University of
Ulm.

H2 View was on the ground in Maribor as the HY4 took to the skies. Keep
an eye on our news pages for a deep dive into the demonstration. =====================================================================

https://www.electrive.com/2023/09/08/h2fly-announces-first-successful-test-flight-with-liquid-h2/


Sep 8, 2023 - 02:17 pm
H2FLY announces first successful test flight with liquid H2
BMDVBMWKELECTRIC AIRCRAFTFCEVFUEL CELLGERMANYH2FLYHEAVENHY4SUBSIDIESUNI
ULM

In cooperation with partners, H2FLY has announced the completion of
what it claims is the world’s first flight of a manned electric
aircraft powered by liquid hydrogen. The test flights are intended to
indicate that the maximum range of the demonstration aircraft can be
doubled from 750 to 1,500 kilometres.

H2FLY is known to be a Stuttgart-based company specialising in the
development of hydrogen fuel cell systems for aircraft. Together with
partners from the ‘HEAVEN’ project, the company now reports its first
flights with liquid, cryogenic hydrogen (LH2) as fuel. This is “another important step on the way from demonstration flights operating at lower altitudes to commercial aircraft applications”, the Stuttgart-based
company emphasises.

The demonstration aircraft HY4, which has been taking off regularly for
test purposes with pressurised tanks since 2020, was used in the test
flight campaign. Among other things, the HY4 has already completed a 124-kilometre non-stop flight with gaseous hydrogen from its home
airport in Stuttgart to Friedrichshafen for the AERO. Now that the test
carrier has been fitted with an LH2 tank system (H2FLY already informed
about progress in the integration of liquid hydrogen tanks in the
summer of 2022), the tension has increased once again. In total, the
HY4, which had been converted in this way, completed four flights
powered by liquid hydrogen – including one flight that lasted over
three hours.

The testers found that “the hydrogen-electric ‘HY4’ demonstrator
aircraft took off from Maribor, Slovenia, and saw safe and efficient
operation throughout multiple flight tests,” as H2FLY wrote. From the
test flights, the Stuttgart-based company deduces that by using liquid
hydrogen instead of gaseous hydrogen, the maximum range of the
demonstration aircraft can be doubled from 750 to 1,500 kilometres.

The background to the LH2 initiative is that the use of liquid,
cryogenic hydrogen enables significantly lower tank weights and volumes compared to the storage of gaseous hydrogen under high pressure (GH2),
which results in an increased range and payload of the aircraft. The
results now achieved with the HY4 represent, in the view of the
initiators, a decisive step on the way to emission-free, commercial
medium- and long-haul flights.

“This achievement marks a watershed moment in the use of hydrogen to
power aircraft. Together with our partners, we have demonstrated the
viability of liquid hydrogen to support medium and long-range
emissions-free flight,” affirms Josef Kallo, co-founder of H2FLY. “We
are now looking ahead to scaling up our technology for regional
aircraft and other applications, beginning the critical mission of decarbonizing commercial aviation.”

The successful test flight campaign is the culmination of the above-
mentioned HEAVEN project – a consortium supported by the European
government that aims to demonstrate the use of liquid cryogenic
hydrogen in aircraft. The consortium is led by H2FLY and includes
partners Air Liquide, Pipistrel Vertical Solutions, the German
Aerospace Centre, EKPO Fuel Cell Technologies and Fundación Ayesa.

Syed Asif Ansar, Head of the Energy Systems Integration Department at
the German Aerospace Center (DLR), adds: “DLR boasts extensive
expertise in electrified aircraft, with a track record spanning over 15
years. Starting from the inaugural flight of the Antares DLR-H2 in
2009, consistent advancements have been made in fuel cells and their
auxiliary systems. This progressive journey culminates in a significant
present achievement in aviation history: the utilization of cryogenic
liquified hydrogen as fuel storage for a four-seater aircraft powered
by fuel cells. Collaborating with H2FLY, AirLiquide and other project
members, DLR is actively engaged in projects aimed at propelling the development of CS-23 and CS-25 fuel-cell powered aircraft into the next
phase.”

In addition to the HEAVEN project, the work was funded by the Federal
Ministry of Economics and Climate Protection (BMWK), the Federal
Ministry of Digital Affairs and Transport (BMVD) and the University of
Ulm.

With the completion of the test flight campaign in the HEAVEN project,
H2FLY says it now wants to focus on the path to commercialisation. In
June, the company also announced in this context the development of its
new H2F-175 fuel cell systems, which can be used at flight altitudes of
up to 27,000 feet. In addition, H2FLY is currently establishing a
centre for H2 aviation together with Stuttgart Airport. The opening is
planned for 2024.

h2fly.de
================================================================

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/pipistrel-flies-liquid-hydrogen-demonstrator/


Textron subsidiary Pipistrel Aircraft flew the first piloted liquid hydrogen-powered electric aircraft last Friday. The HEAVEN project HY4 demonstrator took off from Maribor, Slovenia, with two pilots onboard
and “demonstrated safe and efficient operation throughout multiple
flight tests,” the company said. The hydrogen is used by a fuel cell
that creates electricity for the electric motor. Pipistrel claims the
use of liquid hydrogen instead of compressed hydrogen gas doubles the
range of the aircraft to about 800 nautical miles.

Pipistrel Chief Engineer Tine Tomaži? said the flight is a milestone in
making emissions-free flight practical. “At Pipistrel, our aim is to be
the pioneer of future flight and playing a role on the liquid hydrogen
tank integration, we, along with all the other partners involved, are
able to demonstrate the success of alternative sustainable fuels, ready
to power the aircraft of tomorrow.” ================================================================

https://heaven-fch-project.eu/heaven-newsletter-06/

HEAVEN Cryogenic Hydrogen Tech Aircraft
ABOUT HEAVEN

COMPONENTS

CONSORTIUM

NEWS & EVENTS

DOWNLOADS & LINKS




Search …
HEAVEN NEWSLETTER 06
Jan 9, 2023

Partners’ progress concerning the Heaven project (July 2021 – September
2022)
AIR LIQUIDE
During the last year, Air Liquide (ALAT) has been manufacturing the LH2
tank and its control command box which can be filled with 16 kg of LH2.
After the debugging and tuning phase, ALAT performed tests on this
hardware with LH2, in particular safety chains, alarms, fuelling and
defueling operations. These were validated for performances in normal
cases, extremes cases and failure cases. These tests were held with
partners’ attendees from H2Fly and PVS.

Team of the Heaven project with the cryogenic tank during LH2
acceptance tests on ALAT's tests facilities
Team of the Heaven project with the cryogenic tank during LH2
acceptance tests on ALAT’s tests facilities

After functional tests, a qualification test on a vibration test bench
was successfully performed, verifying the LH2 tank can withstand
mechanical loads of being used on board of H2FLY’s HY4 aircraft. ALAT
also successfully tested a Ground Refueling Equipment’s ability to fill
the tank with LH2 coming from a LH2 trailer.

The next step will be the ground tests on aircraft at Air Liquide
Campus Technology Grenoble with H2FLY and PVS in the beginning of 2023.

DLR
After concluding the shortstack tests, necessary to develop an
operation strategy for the NM5-Type EKPO PEM-Stack at only slightly
elevated pressure levels (up to about 1.150 mbar), first system tests
for operating the shortstack at higher pressures have been conducted.
To be able to perform tests with cathode outlet pressures of up to 2,5
bar another recirculation pump was installed and some smaller
modifications to the system became necessary.

With these modifications first tests could be conducted. The graph on
the next page shows a preliminary test, showing operation at up to
2.300 hPa Cathode Pressure, archiving max. power output of 3,6 kW.



Stackcurrent, Cathodepressures and Stackpower during pressurized
performance test
Stackcurrent, Cathodepressures and Stackpower during pressurized
performance test

H2FLY
Going forward, H2FLY will be leading the HEAVEN project and overseeing
all activities related to the integration and testing of the liquid
hydrogen tank into the HY4. As such, H2FLY supplies the complete fuel
cell and drivetrain system, along with the integration platform HY4 and
the overall aircraft system architecture and controls. Being the owner
of the HY4 aircraft and HEAVEN development lead, H2FLY holds a critical coordinative role, ensuring each of the system parts are properly
adapted and can harmoniously function. As an example, the picture below
shows the integrated liquid hydrogen tank of ALAT in the HY4 platform.

H2FLY’s responsibilities in the HEAVEN project cover the entire
aircraft development process. H2FLY holds the leading role in defining
and providing requirements to the HEAVEN consortium, regarding the
design and adaption of aircraft parts and components. H2FLY further
carried out critical work packages on the architectural level to meet
the requirements of a liquid hydrogen system integration, such as a modification of the fuel cell system design and system architecture.
Also, the buffer tank architecture has been designed and the components
for coupling the buffer tank with the LH2 tank have been specified and
procured as planned. Other essential and safety-relevant parts on board
of the aircraft, for which H2FLY covered the design and development,
were the adaption of the heating system of the liquid hydrogen, the
provision of the complete telemetry system, and other critical parts of
the hydrogen evacuation system.

As a critical element in all aircraft developments, H2FLY facilitates
the safe integration of the liquid hydrogen tank into the HY4 and
ensures safety throughout the anticipated flight test campaign. To this
end, H2FLY has been performing extensive safety analyses regarding HY4
as well as flight operations, including constant alignment of safety requirements with the HEAVEN consortium. In preparation for the
anticipated flight test campaign, coupling tests are scheduled in early
2023. H2FLYdelivered a start-up procedure for the drivetrain system and
will provide necessary drivetrain modifications throughout the
campaigns. Moreover, H2Fly delivered a test plan to ensure safe
coupling-, ground-, and flight tests, and continues to update the plan
in accordance with the HEAVEN consortium. Lastly, H2FLY will provide
continued support to PVS in all activities related to the test flight
campaign, as the company’s team has gathered crucial know-how in
previous flight-testing campaigns of the hydrogen-powered HY4, and
recently achieved a strong growth of its flight team.

Integration work is expected to be completed over the coming months.
Following the integration of the new liquid hydrogen tank and fuel
cells, the aircraft is planned to enter a rigorous programme of ground
testing early in 2023 and is expected to be the world’s first
commercial aircraft to fly using liquid hydrogen. In conclusion, all
works of H2FLY in the HEAVEN project support the company’s leading
vision of enabling emission-free, hydrogen-powered aviation and
revolutionize air travel and will be further utilized in the company’s
ongoing activity to scale the technology to regional turboprop level
and CS-25 safety requirements.

ALAT's tank being mechanically integrated collaboratively by PVS and
H2FLY into HY4 aircraft
ALAT’s tank being mechanically integrated collaboratively by PVS and
H2FLY into HY4 aircraft

PIPISTREL VERTICAL SOLUTIONS
Pipistrel Vertical Solution’s (PVS) team, with the support of H2FLY, is
leading the activities related to the mechanical integration of the
tank components into the aircraft. This involved the design and
execution of substantial modifications to parts of the left fuselage to
house the tank whilst retaining the necessary structural integrity and
at the same time providing the necessary space for all related
subsystems, cabling and piping. The effort culminated in the first
successful fitting trial of the actual liquid hydrogen tank into the
aircraft at the Pipistrel facility in Ajdovš?ina, Slovenia.

Furthermore, common preparations for the flight test campaign have
started, together with H2FLY as the aircraft owner, on both the
administrative and organisational front. Communications with the
Slovenian Civil Aviation Authority have started to obtain the necessary
permit to perform flight tests, according to the requirements defined
by H2FLY, on the modified aircraft. At the same time, the team is
working towards identifying and dealing with all challenges related to operating with liquid hydrogen as aviation fuel together with the test
airport personnel. This will include training all involved personnel,
including rescue personnel, for dealing with liquid hydrogen.

Lastly, the preliminary design team has been bringing forward the
activities related to the up-scaling of the technology for use in
commercially relevant aircraft platforms, focussing on the development
of modelling tools for the sizing and performance estimation of
powerplant components that are crucial for the design of liquid hydrogen-powered aircraft.

In the next two months PVS, together with colleagues from H2FLY and
ALAT, will be finalising the mechanical integration of the LH2 tank in
light of the anticipated ground tests.

FUNDACION AYESA
FUNDACION AYESA (FAY), as part of System integration and
demonstration’s Total Cost of Ownership, has been working on the
development of the platform to collect data in terms of economic
information from each of the partners. This platform was released on
April 7th. This one is only available for each of the Heaven partners
through the corresponding user and password. Each of the partners only
can visualize its own costs to maintain the confidentiality of its
information.

This platform will be used to have an overview of the total cost of the
system at different levels. FAY will analyse the provided costs to
study the total cost of the ownership of the overall system.

Interview with Aleksander Gerbec, director of ECUBES Technology
“ENABLING THE FLOW OF RENEWABLE ENERGY IN THE TRANSNATIONAL TERRITORY” Aleksander Gerbec is the director of ECUBES TECHNOLOGY, which is a
clean energy technology firm developing new technologies and solutions
enabling sector coupling and energy storage. By project development the
company is supporting primarily proprietary technology integration by
focusing on clean energy infrastructure and cross-sectoral power
infrastructure integration. Their work also includes project
development on resilience, civil and defence sectors by cross-sectoral infrastructure integration projects and services based on hydrogen technologies.

Q: What is the North Adriatic Hydrogen Valley?

A: The North Adriatic hydrogen valley (NAHV) is a project that clusters
several industrial and research initiatives to carry out pilot projects
across the complete hydrogen value chain (production, transport,
distribution, and end use with storage and sector coupling). Present
project consists of 34 consortia members with 19 investment projects
and covers the aera show in the picture below. NAHV is unique compared
to other Hydrogen valleys from the following prospects:

It is the first transnational hydrogen valley,
It is the first hydrogen Valley that is industry-driven, initiated as
bottom-up approach, where industry from three territories has proposed
projects and on November 24th, 2021 endorsement to support was given
from three governments,
It has already received some investments from private companies before
any public funding was available.


Q: What is the purpose of a hydrogen valley?

A: Hydrogen valleys are an important step towards locally integrated
hydrogen ecosystems. They not only provide larger availability of
sustainable energy but are also major drivers of industrial development
and job creation. Although there are hurdles to overcome, the concept
is spreading globally, spurred on by changing mindsets and growing
private investment. Project North Adriatic hydrogen valley is the first
step towards hydrogen ecosystem of North Adriatic and we believe that a
fully integrated hydrogen ecosystem will be developed

Q: What are the advantages of transnational hydrogen valleys, compared
to national hydrogen valleys?

A: Transnational hydrogen valleys are the marketplace for participants,
who want to actively participate in the energy transition in the
transnational territory. There they can develop their own projects and collaborate to establish an entire hydrogen value chain, which enables
the flow of renewable energy in the transnational territory. Strong
deployment of flexibility solutions is required to provide the power
system with the ability to adapt to the dynamics of the residual load
on all timescales: from frequency response to inter-year flexibility.
This represents a huge challenge in energy transition and North
Adriatic hydrogen valley is addressing solutions in this direction as
well.

Q: How can companies in the aeronautical industry contribute to the establishment and development of hydrogen valleys?

A: All participants from the transport sector need to collaborate in
order to achieve the most significant transition in the industry’s
history – decarbonisation. The companies in the aeronautical industry
could contribute by providing their user requirements for liquid
hydrogen from infrastructure developers, governments, by promoting
their use of hydrogen, by promoting the idea that clean air transport
is already possible by use of clean hydrogen etc. Aeronautical
companies can contribute also by becoming active participants in the
market creation stage already, together with other front-runners.

Q: How can aeronautical companies benefit from being part of a hydrogen
valley?

A: If aeronautical companies actively participate in the development of hydrogen ecosystems, then there is a higher probability that other
developers, who are trying to develop hydrogen ecosystems, can succeed
sooner, thus the entire region will benefit from the synergies and the
end result. Companies can also guide infrastructure developers with
their user requirements, helping to align project design accordingly
and to get the required LH2 when they want it and to get it under
affordable conditions. If they are active participants, they can get
access to affordable liquid hydrogen much sooner than everyone else.
Those who will be the first are expected to keep their position of
frontrunners for a while, so everybody who sees interest in use of
clean hydrogen should be actively involved in this regional approach.
So – time for action is now – go ahead and require your supply of
liquid hydrogen.

Relevant upcoming events about hydrogen, fuel cells and aviation
IQPC MEA Conference Seattle (15 – 17 November 2022):
More Electric Aircraft USA will bring together relevant stakeholders to
ensure maximum knowledge transfer and professional exchange. During
this full three-days-program with lectures and interactive workshops
you will meet international experts from OEMs, suppliers, associations,
and academia to discuss, hear and learn about their experiences and
challenges in the fields of More Electric & Hybrid Aircraft.
Link: https://www.iqpc.com/events-more-electric-aircraft-seattle

Hydrogen Mobility Snap Summit (29 November 2022):
Our Mobility Snap Summit 2022 provides the forum for discussion and
debate on the current climate within the mobility sector of the
hydrogen community.
Link: https://www.h2-viewevents.com/conference/h2-views-hydrogen-mobility-snap-summit-2022/attend/

12th Aviation Forum Munich (05 – 06 December 2022):
Under the patronage of Airbus CPO Jürgen Westermeier, more than 800 decision-makers and experts from the aviation industry will meet at the Aviation Forum Munich. The group of participants consists of OEMs, manufacturers and suppliers at all tier levels, political decision-
makers and thought leaders from Germany, Europe and worldwide.
Link: https://www.aviation-forum.com/

Hannover Messe (17 – 21 April 2023):
HANNOVER MESSE is the most important international platform and hot
spot for industrial transformation – with excellent innovations or
unusual products. Here you will find all the facts that make one thing
even clearer: participation is an absolute “must”!
Link: https://www.hannovermesse.de/en/

Aero Friedrichshafen 2023 (19 – 22 April 2023, Friedrichshafen,
Germany):
Discover what direction developments in the General Aviation industry
are going at the AERO Friedrichshafen. With more than 600 exhibitors
from 35 countries, 33,000 visitors and 600 journalists from all over
the world, the AERO Friedrichshafen is the international community’s
annual meeting place. At Lake Constance, numerous companies will be
displaying their latest products and innovations, covering the whole
industry from ultralights and gliders to business jets, helicopters and electric aircraft as well as avionics and maintenance.
Link: https://www.aero-expo.de/

Hydrogen Online Workshop 2023 (9-10 May 2023):
The Hydrogen Online Workshop (HOW) is a unique interactive event that
provides a global platform for discussing the most important issues of
the hydrogen industry. 150+ world-class experts in Keynotes and
Workshops, interactive virtual Exhibition, 10000+ Hydrogen Pioneers,
110+ countries. The World’s Largest Interactive Hydrogen Event.
Link: https://www.hydrogen-online-workshop.com/

World Hydrogen Summit 2023 (9-11 May 2023):
The Sustainable Energy Council with partners the Port of Rotterdam, the
City of Rotterdam and the Province of Zuid-Holland are delighted to
renew their commitment to enhance the event as the official global
springboard for hydrogen deals and project developments where real
action is displayed to inspire and motivate the rest of the world.
Welcoming 8000 decision makers, Energy Ministers, and CEOs from over
100 countries, it’s a truly global gathering of minds where key
priorities are set, bold announcements are made, and new partnerships
are forged.
Link: https://www.world-hydrogen-summit.com/

Hydrogen Expo Italy (17-19 May 2023):
First Italian exhibition & conference entirely dedicated to the
technological sector for the development of the hydrogen supply chain.
The decarbonisation policy aimed at reducing global pollution sees
hydrogen as a sustainable energy source since it can be generated using renewable energy and, therefore, it can be transported, stored and used
as a gas; Italy can be an extremely interesting market for the
development of hydrogen, thanks to the widespread presence of renewable
energy sources and a capillary network for the transport of gas.
Link: https://hydrogen-expo.it/en/

Paris Airshow (SIAE) (19 – 25 June 2023):
The 54th edition of the Show will take place at the Le Bourget Parc des Expositions in June 2023, and once again will bring together all the
players in this global industry around the latest technological
innovations. The first four days of the Show will be reserved for trade visitors, followed by three days open to the general public.
Link: https://www.siae.fr/en/


Dr. Maria Sol Rau (Coordinator)
Email: media_heaven@outlook.com
H2FLY GmbH, Augsburger Straße 293, 70327 Stuttgart, Germany



This project has received funding from the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen 2
Joint Undertaking (now Clean Hydrogen Partnership) under Grant
Agreement No 826247. This Joint Undertaking receives support from the
European Union’s Horizon 2020 Research and Innovation programme,
Hydrogen Europe and Hydrogen Europe Research.

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Below are the comments posted to this message thread: https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/pipistrel-flies-liquid-hydrogen-demonstrator/

75 COMMENTS
Arthur J Foyt September 11, 2023 At 8:40 am
Bending the English language to the point of calling this an
“emissions-free” flight or calling H2 a “sustainable fuel” is a lie by omission.

Reply
Igor Pfajfar September 11, 2023 At 8:58 am
Emmission-free. Yes, that’s the real question. True, it doesn’t have
direct emissions. Emphasis is on DIRECT. Emissions in all these ”eco”-
and ”sustainable” are usually just off-set. Clear of view, clear of
mind.
H2 is mostly produced from fossil fuel. Shocking discovery, right? Just
a small portion is produced by electrolysis.
Untill we have surplus of sustainably produced electricity H2 will not
be a viable source. To be more precise, it will ectually never be a
source, just an intermediary.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 10:26 am
Dear Mr. Foyt,

Apparently you missed this bit of information about the flight’s use of green-hydrogen:

https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/
“Fuelled with green hydrogen produced by Air Liquide at its French
liquefaction facility, […]”

Green hydrogen is hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water, using renewable electricity such as photovoltaics (solar).

Best regards,
Larry Dighera

Reply
Rush S. September 11, 2023 At 11:16 am
Interesting read, thanks for posting the link. Here’s a bit more on Air Liquide:

http://www.airliquide.com/hydrogen-everything-you-need-know-7-questions

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 5:50 pm
Thanks you for your gratitude.

Here are more links:

* https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/

* https://heaven-fch-project.eu/heaven-newsletter-06/

* https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2023-04-06/h2fly-tests-liquid-hydrogen-refueling-process-hy4-technology-demonstrator

* https://aerospace.honeywell.com/us/en/about-us/press-release/2023/01/honeywell-launches-disruptive-research-on-hydrogen-fuel-cells-for-aircraft

* https://www.flyingmag.com/joby-backed-firm-completes-piloted-flights-of-liquid-hydrogen-powered-aircraft/

* https://www.mrobusinesstoday.com/joby-subsidiary-h2fly-flies-first-piloted-liquid-hydrogen-electric-jet/

* https://www.aerospacetestinginternational.com/features/why-hydrogen-as-an-aviation-fuel-is-in-for-the-long-haul.html

*

Reply
Arthur J Foyt September 11, 2023 At 11:18 am
You can produce H2 with hydro/solar, but liquefying it to -423F takes
even more energy than you get back by using it. That, and the huge
losses due to venting means it is an energy loser. Energy losers are
not “sustainable”. That makes it a lie by omission.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 2:59 pm
If the energy used to produce H2 is free sunlight, and you use sunlight
to power the cryocooler to liquefy H2, the energy used is of little
importance; it’s virtually free.

With regard to H2 venting, given the fact that the Space Shuttle was
powered with LH2, its use has a proven record of feasibility.

Today’s Dewar technology will store cryogenic liquids for many months.

Reply
Igor Pfajfar September 11, 2023 At 4:22 pm
This might be in this case, generally most of H2 is produced from
fossil fuels.
Production of H2 is highl energy intensive.
Commendable that you use solar energy for production.
What people most often overlook is energy ballance. It takes much more
energy to produce H2 than the energy reclaimed. And then there is a
”small” matter of compression and storage. That takes a lot of energy.
Another minor problem is storage. I won’t even try to aproach the
problems of cooling. H2 is the smallest gas mollecule and as such
requires pretty expensive, nonporous materials. But you know that,
right?

The old Eric W September 11, 2023 At 5:38 pm
Not so fast!

A recent study showed that communist Chinese solar panels (indirectly subsidized by the USA and others) have such a huge CO2 footprint they
will not ever make it back up with solar energy production. They burn
coal to make them, and don’t do it very efficiently at that.

At this point, you’d think there would be a LOT of emergency research
into real CO2 output and a pause on government meddling in the markets
so as to do no more harm. I won’t hold my breath.

LDighera September 11, 2023 At 8:22 pm
With regard to:

“The old Eric W
September 11, 2023 At 5:38 pm
A recent study showed that communist Chinese solar panels (indirectly subsidized by the USA and others ) have such a huge CO2 footprint they
will not ever make it back up with solar energy production. They burn
coal to make them, and don’t do it very efficiently at that.”

Environmental pollution resulting from phototaic panel manufacture
dwindles to insignificance when amortized over their useful life.
Typically, electrical output is reduced to 80% in the span of twenty-
five years.

Eric W, are you certain you want to bring finincial subsidies into the discussion? ?

The old Eric W September 12, 2023 At 9:01 pm
I’m happy to talk about subsidies, if you can be honest about what
subsidies are. I’m pretty sure I know where you are going, and if you
believe that BS, you need to fact check those Marxist demagogues you’ve
been believing without checking.

LDighera September 13, 2023 At 2:23 pm
Year Federal Petroleum Subsidy Estimate (in billions of USD)
2019 $475.6
2018 $377.3
2017 $331.2
2016 $286.5
2015 $244.1
2014 $209.2
2013 $177.3
2012 $147.8
2011 $122.3
2010 $98.7
2009 $85.6
2008 $73.9
2007 $63.7
2006 $55.2
2005 $48.3
2004 $42.9
2003 $38.7
2002 $35.3
2001 $32.5
2000 $29.9
It’s worth noting that these estimates do not account for all forms of
federal petroleum subsidies, only those related to exploration,
production, and refining. Other forms of subsidies, such as tax credits
and deductions, are also available but are not included in these
estimates.

Richard Phillips September 12, 2023 At 4:06 pm
Oh, please. Can we make as much as we want, without relying on digging
stuff out of the ground? Yes. Thus, sustainable.
Can we make it with renewable energy? Already have. So, at scale, can
be carbon neutral. Thus, green.
ALL forms of converted energy put out less than what it took to make
them. That is true of all fossil fuels, as well.

Reply
LDighera September 12, 2023 At 7:05 pm
Namibia Signs $10 Billion Green Energy Deal With Germany’s Hyphen https://www.voanews.com/a/namibia-signs-10-billion-green-energy-deal-with-germany-s-hyphen-/7118163.html

The old Eric W September 12, 2023 At 9:05 pm
Who is we? What is want?

If we is the World population, and want is an American, or even UK
level of lifestyle, then no, we cannot currently do that without petro.

We won’t be able to for decades. Maybe a couple decades if the
governments of all the top tier countries get very serious about
nuclear right now.

LDighera September 13, 2023 At 9:42 am
The world is already moving toward large scale Green Hydrogen
production. Google: Namibia Signs $10 Billion Green Energy Deal With
Germany’s Hyphen.

Rich K #2. September 14, 2023 At 8:08 am
Compare the source of the electrolosis energy- nuclear? Coal? Natural
gas?

If nuclear- cool. Otherwise, wasted energy making the hydrogen.

Reply
LDighera September 14, 2023 At 11:53 am
How would you suggest electricity be stored for use to power an
aircraft at a later time?

Reply
JimH in CA September 11, 2023 At 10:45 am
The emissions from a fuel cell is water vapor, a much more powerful
‘green house’ gas than CO2. So, what are they ‘saving’ ?
These ‘renewable’ fuels are hardly emissions free. They all require
fossil fueled equipment to produce the machinery to that produces the solar/wind hardware.!

CO2 is not a problem since there is no ‘climate crisis’.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 3:42 pm
Implicit in your thesis is the notion that it is not possible to
recover the pure H2O produced by fuel-cells. Or, did I miss something?

Reply
JimH in CA September 11, 2023 At 4:05 pm
Since fuel cells operate at elevated temperatures of up to 200 degC,
the H2O is a vapor when emitted.
It could certainly be condensed back to a liquid state.

Reply
Ed Fix September 11, 2023 At 12:34 pm
Hydrogen is not an energy source, it’s an energy storage medium. The
energy ultimately has to come from somewhere else.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 3:55 pm
You are correct. The storage of electricity has been a fundimental
issue since its discovery, that has yet to be satisfactorially resolved
in a general way.

It was the attempt to store electricity that lead to Dutch scientist
Pieter van Musschenbroek of Leiden (Leyden), Netherlands to develop the
“Leyden Jar” in 1745. He was attempting to “pour” high-voltage static
charge into a glass vessle …

Reply
Richard Phillips September 12, 2023 At 4:08 pm
Sort of getting “semanticky” here. Is oil from the ground an energy
source? You can go up a level or two and say “sun!” … or ultimately,
“big bang!”

Reply
mcapocci@yahoo.com September 11, 2023 At 12:37 pm
That completely depend on the source of H2. Solar power is now the
cheapest source of electricity to the point where others (Toyota) have determined that it may be better to use H2 made from same in IC engines
vs Batteries to power autos.
Current Cost at the site in California w/o tax subsidies for
Electricity is 3 cent per KWH. the factors to $ 1.50 used for a one Kg
which is a one gallon of gasoline energy Eq. 127 Mj for gasoline 1
gallon vs 141 Mj for 1 kg of H2. so it is actually closer tio 1.25 a
gallon for energy neede to make the theoretical gallon of fuel
equivalent.

Reply
JimH in CA September 11, 2023 At 4:10 pm
Where do I sign up for that 3 ct per kWhr ? PG&E is charging $0.36 per
kWhr, and $0.40+ over the baseline of 360 kWhr ?
20 years ago, before CA installed huge amounts of solar pv and wind,
PG&E was charging me $0.13 per kWhr.

utility scale solar pv and wind is a huge boondoggle for the mfgr and installers. !!!

Reply
R N September 12, 2023 At 11:13 am
Better than the billions ExxonMobil Royal Dutch She’ll eat al?

Reply
Ron E September 11, 2023 At 9:19 am
Just saw a lengthy documentary last night on the hydrogen powered
Hindenburg. Didn’t work out too well for them. Probably different
hydrogen……….. Ready for incoming

Reply
Will Alibrandi September 11, 2023 At 10:03 am
Was waiting for a Hindenburg reference to pop up. That ship used
hydrogen gas, not liquid-state hydrogen which is much safer from what
I’ve read.

Reply
JimH in CA September 11, 2023 At 10:36 am
The hydrogen was use in the lift bags…a lighter-than-air dirigible. The
US would not sell helium to the Germans.
For propulsion, it used a number of diesel engines.

Reply
mcapocci@yahoo.com September 11, 2023 At 12:38 pm
Hinderburg was Diesel fuels. H2 was used for lift.

Reply
Don Lineback September 11, 2023 At 9:43 am
That is great! We can just head over to the Hydrogen store and buy some
liquid that is cheaper than gas. Airports are just going to love
storing that stuff for pilots who may never show up!

Reply
Rush S. September 11, 2023 At 12:43 pm
Not quite yet, but Air Liquide is working on the infrastructure. Note
that Air Liquide is not a niche company focused on iffy technology but
a major player in gas production and supply.

Universal Hydrogen takes a similar approach. From their website:

“We are building a flexible, scalable, and capital-light approach to
hydrogen logistics by transporting it in modular capsules over the
existing freight network from green production sites to airports around
the world. At the airport, the modules are loaded directly into the
aircraft using existing cargo handling equipment. No new infrastructure
is needed. Starting with regional airplanes, we are also developing
conversion kits to retrofit the existing fleet with a hydrogen fuel
cell powertrain.”

I wonder if A.L. is using a similar approach. I saw one shot of the
A.L. supplied aluminum tank in the Pipistrel – it looked like it could
be readily swapped out.

Reply
The old Eric W September 11, 2023 At 5:42 pm
Air Liquide does not have a very good corporate reputation in Houston,
where they have a major presence. Employees and customers generally
don’t have much good things to say. As a former vendor, I found them
unusually hard to deal with.

Reply
Rob September 11, 2023 At 9:58 am
This is pretty cool. The challenge with green energy (solar, wind,
tidal, and (to some extent) nuclear) is that the operator loses direct
control over the amount of power being generated. Hydrogen production
is one way to absorb excess energy and save it for later. While there
is clearly a lot of development left to go (that’s an awfully big two-
place airplane) and cryogenics aren’t going to be at the self serve
pump anytime soon. But this could be significant step towards bringing
the energy density of hydrogen into a usable range… something batteries
have yet to achieve.

To the naysayers, I can see you sitting on the sand at Kitty Hawk in
October of 1902 complaining that “Those two boys are idiots. That
stupid thing doesn’t even have an engine. They should go back to
building bicycles. What are they going to do… pedal that thing?”

Reply
JOHN K. September 11, 2023 At 11:18 am
These alternative energy paths strike me as being much like the WW-I &
-II era efforts in Sweden and other petrol-starved countries to operate vehicles on wood or charcoal. The “gasifiers” used to do this produced
carbon monoxide gas which could power an internal combustion engine and
allow operations to continue, albeit with major downsides comparable to
those being faced today. They were “usable” in the sense that they
worked, but…

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 3:24 pm
If history serves, the challenge will likely be the politics of the
petroleum industry losing control of energy production, much as is
beginning with domestic solar electricity generation.

I can foresee a future in which each home has a rooftop photovoltaic
generation system, and ultimately a H2 liquefaction and storage system,
and a bank of fuel-cells.

The redundancy inherent in such a decentralized system would be very
much appreciated in the event of a disaster ….

Reply
The old Eric W September 11, 2023 At 5:45 pm
Your future better include nuclear plants to provide energy to make the
panels as well as some serious battery innovations.

Reply
Tom C September 11, 2023 At 11:01 pm
I live in a comfortable 2000 sqft suburban home on a 1/5 acre plot, in
a very quiet neighborhood. Sure, I can get a second mortgage to pay for
my power generation & storage equipment, not sure if a second basement
would be an option to build it.

Reply
svanarts September 11, 2023 At 10:11 am
Any thoughtful reply to this article requires a meme *. Since we can’t
post graphics here I shall refrain.

* The meme would be directed at the subject of the article not the
author.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 12:09 pm
I apologize for posting in this message thread, but are you able to
provide information on how to upload an avatar. I couldn’t find it in
my Account Details page, nor the FAQ. I was also unable to find a way
to contact you directly.

Reply
JOHN K. September 11, 2023 At 1:45 pm
Yes, I see one appear from time to time. If one of those who has found
a path to doing this could post the info, it would a nice public
service for the group.

Reply
Erik September 11, 2023 At 10:17 am
“Pipistrel claims the use of liquid hydrogen instead of compressed
hydrogen gas doubles the range of the aircraft to about 800 nautical
miles.” Looking forward to Pipistrel developing this technology further
towards a future 800 NM flight. That’s roughly the range of a C172; and
if we can scale petroleum from C172 range and speed to long haul range
and speed perhaps the same will be possible with the hydrogen burning
jet engines currently being researched. As to how hydrogen fuel can be
produced with little emissions, electrolysis powered by any number of
energy sources (wind, solar, hydro [to take advantage of the storage of
surplus power a la Rob’s comment], or likely the cheapest option,
nuclear) are available today. What I’m not aware of (and what would
make for a great avweb article) is what the potential economics of a
hydrogen based airplane might be.

Reply
John B September 11, 2023 At 10:18 am
Liquid hydrogen may be viable – in many years to come. Currently, it is
riddled with so many issues that yes, you can make it work (as seen
here) but it is so far from practicality that it borders on absurd. It
takes a lot of energy to produce it and much more to liquefy it and
store it, not to mention the hazards of handling. Researchers at (I
think) Michigan State have been experimenting with using liquid ammonia
as a fuel. Rich in hydrogen (NH4), simple to produce, store, and
handle, it has promises. Never rule one out, but be practical.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 10:29 am
How would you characterize viability of the Wright Flyer after its
first flight? ?

Reply
John Mc September 11, 2023 At 1:13 pm
Well, I hate to “rain on your parade”, but ammonia probably isn’t the
fuel of the future.
Yes, ammonia will burn, and it is easier to liquefy (requiring only -40
degrees of refrigeration, versus -420 degrees), but there are a few
little problems. First, it is highly toxic to humans. Second, it
produces large volumes of oxides of nitrogen when burned. Combined with
the water from the combustion, it will create nitric acid and other
corrosive compounds that would likely eat engine and exhaust system
materials. Third, forget trying to use it in a fuel cell to make
electricity. But at least, it will be easy to detect a leak, given its
very pungent odor.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 10:48 am
The potential of LH2 powered flight is awesome, given this fact:

The gravimetric energy density of a fuel is the amount of energy that
can be released by a given mass of
fuel. It is typically measured in megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg) 12.

Liquid hydrogen has a gravimetric energy density of 141.8 MJ/kg 3. In comparison, gasoline has a
gravimetric energy density of 46 MJ/kg 13. Therefore, liquid hydrogen
has a 300%+ higher gravimetric
energy density than gasoline.

However, at this point in development, the efficiency of electrolysis
is ~70-80%, and the efficiency of fuel-cells is about ~60%.

What makes electric motive power of automobiles and aircraft viable
today is the dismal ~20% efficiency of internal-combustion engines.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 12:04 pm
I neglected to mention that electric motors are ~98% efficient.

Reply
Arthur J Foyt September 11, 2023 At 7:12 pm
Well, you have to expend 4x the energy to create liquid H2 and then
practical use means you waste half of that to venting; Gasoline looks
to be at least 3x better as far as a practical fuel. Again the “lie of omission” is that liquid H2 is a terrible liquid fuel for practical
use.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 9:06 pm
I’m not being intentionally obtuse, but “4x the energy” of what?

Are you implying it requires four times the energy contained within the
LH2 liquified from solar-powered H2O electrolysis and liquified with
cryocooler technology, to produce it? If so, please cite empirical
research that supports such an assertion.

With regard to LH2 venting, vented H2 is easily recaptured for re-
liquefaction with a simple hood above the containment vessel, as H2 is significantly lighter than air, or perhaps a cryocooler within the
Dewer.

As has been discussed elsewhere in these comments, when gasoline was at
the stage LH2 is currently, it too was thought impracticable. It takes
time for technology to develop.

I’ll grant you there are many technological challenges to address
concerning the practicality of LH2, but I see evidence they are slowly
being overcome.

Thank you for providing your viewpoint.

Reply
Arthur J Foyt September 11, 2023 At 9:49 pm
I’m saying that since it’s NOT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE that it’s a lie to
say that it is. Q.E.D.

Reply
Raymond Fraze September 11, 2023 At 11:18 am
Bit disappointed in the lack of history and technology in some of the
comments. In 1912 30% of the automobiles were electric. Gasoline was combustible, explosive under the right conditions and considered
dangerous. There were no gas stations (infrastructure) and electric
battery powered automobiles were considered the future. The problem
with both systems was distance. Automobiles were good for around town
but not between cities. Then along came this guy named Rockefeller and
he had all these oil wells and he got together with this other guy
named Ford and then the two of them talked to Vanderbilt who controlled
the railroads and they built the infrastructure for petroleum powered automobiles. They paid farmers and such to store gasoline drums along
dirt roads and sell it to drivers. These men created the infrastructure
we have today, it just didn’t happen! I did a study for a client on
this historical process a few years back. One of the biggest concerns
was that the safety of pumping a flammable product would require people
to be trained for safety, just such things as we do today when we
ground our airplanes. Think Hydrogen is this nasty explosive fuel and
100LL is a safe non-flammable fuel? Really? If we were switching our
automobile fuel from electric to gasoline presently, people would not
be allowed to fuel their vehicles. Some attendant in a fireproof suit
would saunder out, ground your vehicle after you got out and pump the
gasoline for you. You can read all about the creation of the gasoline infrastructure and the demise of electric cars. I found it very
interesting including the creation of our national highway system.
There are many interesting historical articles about this. Keep an open
mind.

Reply
Rush S. September 11, 2023 At 12:01 pm
Interesting comment; thanks for the post.

With respect to how we’d treat gasoline pumping if it had just been
introduced: Imagine proposing an infrastructure which would allow cars
to legally travel on the same road, in opposite directions, with a
closing speed of over 100mph, only yards (or feet!) between them, and
with nothing to protect them except a dotted line on the highway and a
driver who’s supposed to know the rules…

Maybe a quarter mile between opposed carlanes, with GTC (Ground Traffic control) controlling the on-ramps?

Reply
Raymond Fraze September 11, 2023 At 3:09 pm
I know. One rocket fueler from Vandenberg commented to me that the gas
station attendant would have a haz mat degree and a SCAPE suit. ?

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 3:38 pm
The Vandenberg fueler’s commant was obviously meant tongue-in-cheek, as
today there exist H2 fueling stations at which motorists refueling
their Toyotas require no special apparel.

Reply
William September 11, 2023 At 12:23 pm
Hydrogen fuel cells are superior to batteries and the only current
viable way to make electric airplanes practical and functional as the
weight of batteries is a non-starter in aviation.

BUT its still unnecessary.

Jet A remains cheap and plentiful and has existing infrastructure. We
have generations of oil left in the ground. Drill, pump, refine,
repeat. Problem solved.

Reply
JimH in CA September 11, 2023 At 4:14 pm
Amen.!!!

Reply
David Gagliardi September 11, 2023 At 12:27 pm
Battery powered electric aircraft will always be limited to small short
haul planes unless somebody changes the laws of physics.

Hydrogen seems to be the only viable path to larger, longer ranged
electric aircraft. I doubt I will ever fly on one in my lifetime but I
am sure the technology will eventually become commercially viable.

Reply
Larry S September 11, 2023 At 1:23 pm
All these ‘sustainable energy’ schemes are little more than diversions
from reality. There is no free lunch no matter what you do. If
something is moving, energy was used in one way or another to build it
and fuel it. No one ever talks about the real problem. There are too
many humans clomping around the earth. It can be calculated how much
energy it takes to feed, clothe, house, move and even bury each. Anyone
trying to tell me that a hydrogen powered airplane is gonna “save” the
planet is full of … well … beans … aka bravo sierra.

Reply
William September 11, 2023 At 2:19 pm
I’d add the planet doe not need saving. It was here before Man was
created and will be here after we are done.

Reply
Bibocas Bibocas September 11, 2023 At 2:53 pm
That’s the first comment with the all truth I’ve read in this space
related to topic. If (and only if) there’s a change in climate caused
by humans that will, soon or later, cause the death to all of them,
earth, as a planet containing forms of life will survive and those form
will survive too and a new reality will appear. In that virtualization,
humans are spared and they deserve that.

Reply
J Bridges September 11, 2023 At 1:38 pm
Food for thought: If we keep reducing the amount of CO2 currently being produced by everything; will the Trees, plants and phytoplankton still
be able to produce enough oxygen to keep 8+ billion people alive and
well?

Reply
Rush S. September 11, 2023 At 2:17 pm
Fortunately, politicians, punsters, and Monday morning quarterbacks
will provide an unending supply of waste gas.

Reply
Larry S September 11, 2023 At 2:40 pm
That’s precisely the issue, J B. Small percentage (relative) of
increased levels of co2 help plants to produce MORE food for what is essentially becoming a population too big for the earth to sustain.
Trying to build vehicles to move humans around without producing co2 is
like a cat chasing its tail in a circle. Ridiculous. Reduction in so
called greenhouse gases or decarbonization of the planet is nothing
more than a scam by governments and politicians trying to control the
masses.

Reply
Bill September 11, 2023 At 3:03 pm
I agree with Larry!

Every “thing” that damages the environment is a function of humans.
More humans equals more demand on the environment. No way around that.
Unless and until “environmentalists” go back to working on “Zero
Population Growth” they have no credibility.

In this case the issue isn’t that hydrogen has worked, but that the
folks working on it and supporting it are touting it as “the answer.”
If you think it’s the answer you’re not looking deeply enough.

I’m glad it’s been done and I’d like to see them keep working on it,
but depending what changes and how it changes (because everything
changes sometime) this may be pointless in the end. But it is worth
exploring.

But y’all go easy on those of us who fail to jump on the “Rah-Rah! This
is the answer!” bandwagon right now. We’re just seeing things y’all
aren’t – or are ignoring.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 4:06 pm
We humans must start viewing the biosphere as a closed system (among
other things).

Reply
Larry S September 12, 2023 At 12:37 am
Here ya go, LDig … if ya want to save the planet, don’t build a H2
powered airplane … just stop mowing your lawn:

msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/home-and-garden/mind-blowing-side-by-side- photos-reveal-the-hidden-cost-of-mowing-your-lawn-now-this-is- interesting/ar-AA1eNLET?

The old Eric W September 11, 2023 At 5:49 pm
I want to congratulate pipistrel for once again finding an excellent
use for an airplane, the Taurus, which seems to be able to do
everything. Different variations of this plane have won all sorts of
contests and set all sorts of records.

Just none of them sales records. Maybe they should figure out if they
can make a version that people will buy to fly around in.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 9:32 pm
Pipistrel has sold around 100 Velis Electro electric planes since its
launch in 2020.
Pipistrel had delivered 100 aircraft of the microlight glider Taurus
family by 2011.

Given the niche market, I’d say Pipistrel’s sales record is stellar.
Their mere continued existence is a testament to their sustainability,
in the face of a difficult market.

Reply
The old Eric W September 11, 2023 At 9:44 pm
I’m not knocking anything here except lack of sales for what seems to
be an excellent design. 100 isn’t a lot.
I was not happy they sold to Textron, and not surprised that hasn’t
resulted in better sales.
I’ve not sat in any of their aircraft, but I suspect they are missing
something in the marketing department.

Reply
Arthur J Foyt September 11, 2023 At 6:39 pm
LDighera said:
“and you use sunlight to power the cryocooler to liquefy H2”
—–Nope. Solar is already being used on the grid. If you take it away
for this project then you back-fill with traditional oil/gas/coal to
make up for it for this. That’s another lie by omission.

“With regard to H2 venting, given the fact that the Space Shuttle was
powered with LH2, its use has a proven record of feasibility.”
—–Nope, it’s venting so much that ice builds up on the structure before
launch. Shuttle launches are a poster boy of waste when it comes to H2.
Just because it’s feasible does not make it sane to use.

Reply
David Bunin September 12, 2023 At 9:48 am
“ it’s venting so much that ice builds up on the structure “

I don’t disagree with your premise, but it’s a strange use of ‘so
much’. It doesn’t take much to get moisture and even ice out of the
Florida atmosphere.

Reply
Arthur J Foyt September 12, 2023 At 10:36 am
Point is main tank is open to the atmosphere and has to be connected
full time to an LH source until liftoff. H2 cars in Europe are banned
from parking garages for this same reason! Any airplane will need to be completely UNFILLED before you can put it in a hangar.

Reply
LDighera September 11, 2023 At 10:12 pm
This $10-Billion Desert Solar Green Hydrogen Megaproject typifies the
current worldwide trend toward LH2 production: https://youtu.be/J4d-f7aHXOY?si=icGbA6pfjrk2GL4a

Reply
David Bunin September 12, 2023 At 9:44 am
Video total of 1:28. Of that, 1:14 is the airplane turning around on
the ramp and taxiing in the direction of the runway. Then 14 seconds of
footage of the airplane flying away from the traffic pattern. No
footage of the actual takeoff, none of the landing. Lame video.

Reply
LEAVE A REPLY


On Mon, 2023-09-11 at 10:34 -0700, Larry Dighera wrote:

THE WORLD'S FIRST MANNED LH2 POWERED FUEL-CELL ELECTRIC AIRCRAFT!

The potential of LH2 powered flight is awesome, given this fact:

The gravimetric energy density of a fuel is the amount of energy that
can be released by a given mass of
fuel. It is typically measured in megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg) 12.

Liquid hydrogen has a gravimetric energy density of 141.8 MJ/kg 3. In comparison, gasoline has a
gravimetric energy density of 46 MJ/kg 13. Therefore, liquid hydrogen
has a 300%+ higher gravimetric
energy density than gasoline.

However, at this point in development, the efficiency of electrolysis
is ~70-80%, and the efficiency of fuel-cells is about ~60%.

What makes electric motive power of automobiles and aircraft viable
today is the dismal ~20% efficiency of internal-combustion engines
compared to electric motors ~98% efficiency.

https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/
“Fueled with green hydrogen produced by Air Liquide at its French liquefaction facility, […]”

Green hydrogen is hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water,
using
renewable electricity such as photovoltaics (solar).

===================================================================== https://www.h2-view.com/story/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-manned-liquid-hydrogen-flight-with-fuel-cell-aircraft/

H2FLY completes world’s ‘first’ manned liquid hydrogen flight with
fuel
cell aircraft
By Charlie Currie
on Sep 07, 2023

Germany’s H2FLY has completed the world’s “first” manned liquid hydrogen-powered flight of a fuel cell electric aircraft in a
demonstration in Maribor, Slovenia.

[continued in next message]

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