Amprius' "world's highest density" batteries with energy density of 450
Wh/kg and 1,150 Wh/l may enable sustainable electric aircraft

It's encouraging to see light weight, high energy density battery
development progressing. NASA thought so highly of Amprius, that they help fund them: https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/5.-Amprius.pdf =============================================================================

https://newatlas.com/energy/amprius-450-wh-kg-battery

Amprius ships first batch of "world's highest density" batteries
By Loz Blain
February 13, 2022

Amprius has delivered some 450-Wh/kg cells to its first customer, the highest-density cells currently availableAmprius
VIEW 3 IMAGES

Californian company Amprius has shipped the first batch of what it claims
are the most energy-dense lithium batteries available today. These silicon anode cells hold 73 percent more energy than Tesla's Model 3 cells by
weight, and they take up 37 percent less volume.

Tesla's current Model 3 cells serve as a state-of-the-art comparison, and
hold around 260 Wh/kg and 730 Wh/l, according to Enpower. The new Amprius
cells are a significant step up, both in specific energy and energy density, holding 450 Wh/kg and 1,150 Wh/l – and the company says that the undisclosed number of cells just delivered to "an industry leader of a new generation of High-Altitude Pseudo Satellites" give it bragging rights for "the highest energy density cells available in the battery industry today."

Amprius says the batteries' impressive performance is due to its silicon nanowire anode technology. When you charge up a lithium-ion battery, you're effectively pulling an electron off each lithium atom sitting happily at the cathode, and moving them across to the anode via external wiring, since electrons can't pass through the electrolyte or separator between the anode
and cathode. Their negative charge pulls the positively-charged lithium ions across through the electrolyte and separator, where they each find an
electron and become embedded in what's typically a graphite lattice at the anode.

Silicon nanowire electrodes can store more lithium than a typical graphite lattice, and Amprius says they last long enough to be competitive with
current technology

Silicon nanowire electrodes can store more lithium than a typical graphite lattice, and Amprius says they last long enough to be competitive with
current technologyAmprius

Amprius has replaced that graphite lattice with silicon nanowires. Silicon
can store some 10x more lithium than graphite, but it tends to swell and
crack, drastically reducing cell life. Amprius says that when you form the silicon into porous nanowires, arranged as a kind of forest of longer wires with shorter ones in between, the silicon is able to tolerate swell and
resist cracking, extending the life of the cell to the point where silicon anodes can become a competitive technology.

The company says the silicon nanowires are rooted right into the substrate
of the anode, so conductivity (and thus power) is high. It says the cell
cycle life is "excellent" and "continually improving," although it doesn't
put any numbers on it, and it also says the anode is the only part of the battery that changes; the rest can be produced using existing manufacturing methods and components.

Obviously, the world is ready and waiting for next-gen battery cells that
can store more energy in less size and weight – everything from smartphones
to electric vehicles would benefit either from a weight or space reduction,
and emerging technologies like electric VTOL aircraft are crying out for batteries that can improve their range and capabilities.

The Amprius cells significantly outperform current lithium batteries on
energy density by weight and volume --Amprius

And of course, energy density and specific energy are just two metrics on
which a battery needs to compete. Thermal performance, safety,
charge/discharge rates and cycle life will all play a big part, as indeed
will price. The fact that Amprius's first customer is in advanced aerospace
and making satellites would suggest that at this point, these cells aren't going to compete on price.

The company will soon choose a site, on which it'll start building a mass production facility, which will bring economies of scale that might make
this technology relevant in the EV market and elsewhere. By the time that factory's up and running, we should also be able to put some exact
performance metrics on another advanced electrode manufacturer we've been reporting on: Nawa Technologies says it's developed a way to cheaply manufacture vertically aligned carbon nanotube electrodes, claiming these
could lead to 300 percent improvements on today's lithium batteries. We
shall see.

Source: Amprius: https://amprius.com/2022/02/amprius-technologies-ships-first-commercially-available-450-wh-kg-1150-wh-l-batteries


Loz Blain
Loz has been one of our most versatile contributors since 2007, and has
since proven himself as a photographer, videographer, presenter, producer
and podcast engineer, as well as a senior features writer. Joining the team
as a motorcycle specialist, he's covered just about everything for New
Atlas, concentrating lately on eVTOLs, hydrogen, energy, aviation,

12 COMMENTS

vince FEBRUARY 13, 2022 10:56 PM
UTS will get bragging rights soon with 11,700 Wh/Kg. Check out University of Technology at Sydney discovery.

Robt FEBRUARY 14, 2022 02:01 AM
UTS website discusses a new molecule that could very significantly improve battery anode performance etc. etc.
However they haven’t so much as built a lab prototype
A bit early for bragging rights

Chase FEBRUARY 14, 2022 06:53 AM
It would be lovely to finally get the weight down on these battery packs in vehicles. Between the weight savings and the reduced need for capacity due
to the reduced weight, this could cut the battery weight in half (about
500lbs off in a Model 3 LR) and shave 14% off the total weight of the car. I still wouldn't buy a Tesla (because I hate the ADAS-is-LIFE design), but
huge reductions in weight are a great way to get me interested in an EV.

notarichman FEBRUARY 14, 2022 07:24 AM
i notice that amprius doesn't mention how many cycles/years the battery will last.

BlueOak FEBRUARY 14, 2022 08:38 AM
“ It says the cell cycle life is "excellent" and "continually improving,"

Talk is cheap, but actual, proven, performance specs are what lives in the
real world.
guzmanchinky FEBRUARY 14, 2022 08:41 AM

I am so excited for electric motorcycles with huge range, or one of those flying Jetson thingees with an hour flight time!
noteugene FEBRUARY 14, 2022 08:58 AM

Hope next yrs cell phones will utilize this tech but that's doubtful. Not enough of a time frame to scale up for production one would think.
WB FEBRUARY 14, 2022 09:28 AM

been reading these for over a decade now... and non zero zip nada ever made
it anywhere, still stuck on the good old standard lithium ion...
joe46 FEBRUARY 14, 2022 03:51 PM

so how much do these things cost ? and how many charge cycles do you get out
of them ?
MarkGovers FEBRUARY 14, 2022 08:08 PM
We are one step closer to all electric everything!
LOAD MORE
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https://amprius.com/2022/02/amprius-technologies-ships-first-commercially-available-450-wh-kg-1150-wh-l-batteries
AMPRIUS TECHNOLOGIES SHIPS FIRST COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE 450 Wh/kg, 1150 Wh/L BATTERIES
February 8, 2022
Deployment of industry-disrupting battery cell in advanced aerospace application affirms Amprius as the leading provider of the highest energy density cells available

Fremont, CA – FEBRUARY 08, 2022 — Amprius Technologies, Inc., the leader in Silicon Anode Li-Ion battery cells with its Si-NanowireTM platform, today announced the shipment of the first commercially available 450 Wh/kg, 1150
Wh/L lithium ion battery cells to an industry leader of a new generation of High-Altitude Pseudo Satellites (HAPS). Amprius Technologies’ high energy density battery cells have enabled groundbreaking capabilities in long endurance, communications, and high-resolution imaging to cutting-edge stratospheric platforms since 2018.

This shipment represents the culmination of collaborative development and testing for this latest design win. The deployment of this
industry-disrupting battery cell in an advanced aerospace application
affirms Amprius Technologies as the leading provider of the highest energy density cells available in the battery industry today.

“This advancement from the 405 Wh/kg product, previously announced on
November 8, 2021, highlights the acceleration of our roadmap towards
delivering products with unrivaled performance,” said Jon Bornstein, COO of Amprius Technologies. “Our proprietary Si-NanowireTM platform and the comprehensive solutions we have developed enable unparalleled performance
and continue to sustain our product leadership.”

The newest product release from Amprius, which has been in commercial manufacturing since 2018 at its Fremont, CA facility, represents another
proof point in the company’s unique ability to deliver breakthrough
performance that enables optimal business cases for its customers. To
support surging demand, Amprius Technologies, Inc. has embarked on constructing its first high volume manufacturing facility located in the
United States. A mass production site will be selected in the first quarter
of 2022.

About Amprius Technologies

Amprius Technologies is a leading manufacturer of high-energy and
high-capacity lithium-ion batteries producing the industry’s highest energy density cells. The company’s corporate headquarters is in Fremont,
California where it maintains an R&D lab and a pilot manufacturing facility
for the fabrication of silicon nanowire anodes and cells. Please go to Amprius.com for more information.

###

For more information, please contact:

Renee Maler
Philosophy PR + Marketing
510.499.9746
renee@philosophypr.com

INTERESTED? LET’S TALK
Contact us to learn more about Amprius Technologies 100% Silicon Nanowire Technology.

Amprius
ISO 9001-2015 Certified
1180 Page Ave, Fremont, CA 94538 USA
Phone: 800.425.8803
Email: inquire@amprius.com
--------------------------------------

https://amprius.com/technology

TECHNOLOGY
The world needs better batteries!
01
THE PROBLEM
Why is battery technology evolving so slowly?
The main reason for the slow pace of battery improvement is chemistry. In conventional lithium-ion batteries the anode is made of carbon in the form
of graphite, and graphite has reached its energy density limit.

A new anode material is required to improve battery performance, and that material is silicon. Silicon can store up to 10 times more lithium compared
to graphite which enables batteries to have much greater energy. But silicon swells dramatically when it is charged with lithium and that can cause it to crack and stop working.


02
THE AMPRIUS’ SOLUTION
Amprius’ 100% Silicon nanowire technology
In 2007, scientists at Stanford University discovered a solution to the swelling problem of silicon anodes. Silicon nanowires were shown to tolerate swell and resist cracking. Amprius has perfected this technology and the
result is the world’s first 100% silicon nanowire anode for lithium-ion batteries.

The 100% silicon nanowire anode is a direct replacement for graphite anodes. The rest of the battery components and manufacturing methods leverage the established global supply chain for lithium-ion batteries.

Benefits of Using Nanowires

Nanowires tolerate volume expansion and are rooted to the substrate
Nanowires have micro and macro porosity that accommodate swell
Nanowires improve Solid-Electrolyte-Interphase & cycle life
Anode thickness is reduced to half of a graphite electrode thickness

Advantages of Amprius’ 100% Silicon nanowire batteries
Highest content active silicon material – 100% silicon: Because silicon is
the best material for energy density, using 100% silicon means that we can provide lithium-ion batteries with the highest energy density.

High conductivity and connectivity: Silicon nanowires are connected directly
to the substrate with no binders. This means that there is nothing to block
the flow of current. Our nanowire technology enables the highest ratio of energy to power.

Excellent Cycle Life: Amprius Technologies 100% Silicon Nanowire Batteries
have excellent cycle life that is continuously improving. This has been demonstrated in real world use with multiple organizations including US National Labs and major aerospace companies.


03
PRESENT AND FUTURE
Revolutionizing battery technology
Amprius Technologies’ 100% silicon lithium-ion batteries are game-changers. Having the highest energy density in the industry, our batteries can substantially improve the performance of electric vehicles, aircraft,
drones, and wearables.

Notes:

Urban Air Mobility – estimated flight time based on customer models

Soldier Power – real data based on Conformal Wearable Battery developed for
US army

Smartwatch – customer-reported data

Electric Vehicle – estimated relative to Tesla Model 3 long-range battery specifications


OUR ROADMAP
The future of batteries
Going forward, Amprius Technologies has an extensive product roadmap that further leverages 100% Silicon Nanowire anodes. We are actively scaling
silicon anode manufacturing to allow more industries to take advantage of
our products. Our high performance lithium-ion batteries are currently being used in premium and mission critical applications and will soon expand to EV and consumer applications as our manufacturing capacity grows. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2021-12-07/amprius-claims-game-changing-battery-recharge-rate

AMPRIUS CLAIMS GAME-CHANGING BATTERY RECHARGE RATE
CHARLES ALCOCK
DECEMBER 7, 2021
Amprius Technologies has announced what it describes as a breakthrough in battery charging rates that could significantly boost the performance of electric vehicles, including eVTOL models. The U.S.-based start-up says that using its proprietary Si-Nanowire anode platform, it achieved a 0 to 80
percent charge rate for silicon anode Lithium-Ion battery cells in just six minutes.

The company says the result of the trial has been independently verified by Mobile Power Solutions and meets the U.S. Advanced Battery Consortium’s goal
of achieving an 80 percent charge in less than 15 minutes by 2025. It claims that an unnamed Fortune 100 company is now evaluating the Si-Nanowire technology.

Amprius, which is already providing battery cells for several drone applications, intends to offer the technology to companies developing larger electric aircraft. It is moving to achieve mass production rates for its
cells of hundreds of megawatt-hours per year and expects to initiate a major ramp-up in 2024.

“These results confirm the significant benefits of our Si-Nanowire anode for electric vehicle applications, where fast charge and high energy density are essential,” said Amprius’s chief operating officer, Jon Bornstein. “The need
to shorten charge times extends well beyond the rapidly growing electric vehicle market and into broader electric mobility markets, including micro-mobility and aviation.”

According to Amprius, its battery cell has a specific energy of 370 Wh/kg
and supports applications that need very high sustained power. The fast
charge capability is already available for some in-production cells,
including those being used for power-intensive drone applications.

In October, ABB E-mobility announced plans to develop MegaWatt-class fast-charging equipment for Lilium’s seven-seat eVTOL aircraft. The Switzerland-based power and automation specialist will provide the infrastructure in time to support its planned launch of commercial flights
of up to 155 miles in Florida, Germany, and Brazil in 2024.

The charging points are intended to be capable of fully recharging batteries
in around 30 minutes, or charging up to 80 percent in 15 minutes. The German manufacturer says this will allow each of its Lilium Jets to make between 20 and 25 daily flights across its planned network of vertiports. ------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/5.-Amprius.pdf

High Energy Density Lithium-Ion Cells with Silicon Nanowire Anode Technology Ionel Stefan
CTO, Amprius Technologies, Inc.
1180 Page Ave., Fremont, CA

2020 NASA Battery Industry Day
AMPRIUS TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
COMPREHENSIVE PLATFORM
Technology platform includes entire ecosystem for optimal performance:
BEST PERFORMANCE
Highest energy density lithium-ion cells Silicon nanowire anode
manufacturing

Electrochemistry
High energy cell designs
1200 450
100% 50+
Wh/liter Wh/kg
Independent patent filings on nanowire technology and lithium ion cells
Silicon nanowire anode
Leader in Silicon Anode Technology
Highest Performance Li-Ion Cells in the Industry
2
ENABLING TECHNOLOGY
Pioneers and established leaders in silicon anode materials and high
energy density lithium ion batteries
2008 Company founded at Stanford
2009 Operations Started
2018 First Commercial Product
“Silicon Is Awesome and Inexpensive”- Tesla Battery Day 2020

PATENTED SILICON NANOWIRE ANODE CONSTRUCTION
A New Structure for 100% Silicon Based on Nanowires
KEY BENEFITS
- Micro & Macro porosity- prevents cracking and interference between
nanowires
- Tolerates Expansion, Nanowire Rootedmechanically and electrically
connected to substrate
- Stable Solid Electrolyte Interphase (SEI)- stabilized interaction with electrolytes
- Conductive filament grown from substrate
- Bulk coating of low density, porous amorphous silicon
- Thin layer of high-density amorphous silicon
310
340
330
30 µm
8 µm
3

MANUFACTURING: ROLL-TO-ROLL FOR SILICON NANOWIRE ANODE PRODUCTION
Pilot Scale Manufacturing – demonstrated scalability with Pilot Tool
4
200 kWh per line
Bare Foil In and Finished Anode Out
• powder mixing
• slurry preparation
• roll coating (2X)
• drying
• calendaring
Replaces:
5
Products and Applications
HIGH ENERGY AND POWER CAPABILITY
Amprius’ cells enable the highest energy and power
Graphite
Anode Cell
maximum cell
body temperature
during discharge
ENERGY
POWER
Silicon Nanowire//LCO Ragone Plot
Proprietary and Confidential 6
Application
Dimensions
(T x W x H)
mm
Mass
g
Capacity
Ah
Energy
Wh Wh/L Wh/kg Capacity
Ah
Energy
Wh Wh/L Wh/kg
Charge-Discharge Rate: C/5-C/5 Charge-Discharge Rate: 1C-3C
HAPS 4.5 x 50 x 55 33.1 3.8 13.9 1125 420
Drones, High
Power 4.2 x 50 x 55 27.8 2.8 10.1 875 365 2.65 9.0 780 325
Drones, Long
Endurance 4.6 x 50 x 55 31.7 3.6 13.2 1040 416 3.4 11.5 870 360
High-Capacity
Cells 4.5 x 50 x 105 68.1 8.1 29.3 1240 430
Army Wearable
Pack 5.4 x 54 x 64 49.5 5.4 21 1125 425

PRODUCTS
High Power capability with highest energy density and specific energy
Operating temperature range: -20ºC to 55ºC. Cycle life 150-300 cycles, depending on operating conditions
7
CHEMISTRIES WITH LONG CYCLE LIFE
Long Endurance Batteries
Si/LCO
80%
Cycling at C/5 for Long Endurance UAV applications
8
Si/NMC811
SILICON NANOWIRE ANODE ENABLES MUCH GREATER IMPROVEMENT
9
Flight Time Mission Time Talk Time Range
SoA Graphite Amprius SiNW
Urban Air Mobility Soldier Wearable
Power
Smartwatch BEV
Notes: UAM – estimated flight time based on customer models
Soldier Power – real data based on Conformal Wearable Battery developed for
US Army
Smartwatch – customer reported data
BEV – estimated relative to Tesla Model 3 long range battery specifications Game-Changing Advantages in Advanced Applications
15 min
37 min
8.2 h
17.8 h
3.1 h
5.7 h
334 mi
602 mi
USE CASES
Energy Cells for High Altitude Drones Enable Longest Endurance
“The aircraft has achieved an altitude of 74,000 ft in Arizona
and, critically, has remained above 50,000ft at dawn, after a
night's flying with no sun to charge its batteries.”

10
USE CASES
Lightweight battery pack for Stratosphere
Target
87%
C/5 Cycling at 30 mBar (~78,000 ft)
• 406 Wh/kg battery pack
• Replaced incumbent Li/S
• Reduced battery size over 50%
• Light-weight, compliant compression system for stratosphere

11
x12
USE CASES
Power Cells for Urban Air Mobility – Long Endurance

12
USE CASES
Endurance Record for Multi-Rotor Drone with Amprius Power Cells

13
USE CASES
Long Endurance Power Batteries
• 415 Wh/kg at C/5, 370 Wh/kg at 2C ? doubles endurance
• Designed for eVTOL and multirotor drones 725 Wh, 5 lb (2.27 kg) Pack

14
HIGH POWER CELLS
Small, long endurance power drones
0%
20%
40%
60%
80%
100%
120%
Discharge Rate
Energy, % vs. C/5
• >80% relative energy to 6C rate
• Small temperature increase and within
operating limits to 10C rate
20
25
30
35
40
45
50
55
60
0 0.5 1 1.5 2 2.5 3
Temperature (
oC)
Discharge capacity (Ah)
6C
5C
4C
3C
2C
1C
15
PORTABLE POWER APPLICATION
Conformal-Wearable Battery – 2X Energy Content

16
CONFORMAL-WEARABLE BATTERY
2X Energy Content

17
Specification CWB-150 (Fielded Model) Amprius “Flexible” battery
Energy (Pack) 148 Wh 320 Wh
Weight 2.6 lb 2 .6 l b
Dimensions 8.7” x 7.65” x 0.7” 8 .7 ” x 7 .65” x 0 .7 ”
Cells specific energy 201 Wh/kg 395 Wh/ kg
x 16
UN38.3 certified in 2020, confirmed performance in field test
USE CASES
EV – Future Market

18
EV CELLS
Exceed 2025 Goals
• Si/NCM811
• ISO form factor VIFB-/99/300
Model based on results to date:
• Capacity: 60 Ah at C/3 rate (30°C)
• Energy: 450 Wh/kg and 1200 Wh/L
• Peak Power: 1000 W/kg and 2650 W/L
• 80% capacity charged in 15 minutes
50% higher specific energy than best EV cells

19
EV PERFORMANCE TESTS
Cycle Life – Dynamic Stress Test (DST)
• DST pulse profile
• Constant energy discharged every cycle

20

650 cycles, ongoing improvement to 1000
100,000 miles with 200-mile range battery

EV PERFORMANCE TESTS
Calendar Life – 50°C at Full Charge
Equivalent to about 8 years, ongoing improvement to 10 years
• Reference Performance Test
verification every 32 days
• Calendar Life at 50°C equivalent
to about 4x Calendar Life at 30°C

21
EV PERFORMANCE TESTS
High Rate Charge
• Charge for 15 minutes at 3.2C rate
• 85% energy restored in 15 minutes
• 99.5% energy restored in
subsequent normal full cycle

22
Silicon nanowire anode is best for fast charging due to lower thickness
8 5 % E N E R G Y C H A R G E D I N 1 5 M I N U T E S
HIGH LOADING, HIGH
VOLTAGE LCO
HIGH LOADING, Ni-RICH
NMC
LARGE FORM FACTOR,
ADVANCED CATHODES
HIGH SILICON LOADING, ADVANCED
CATHODES, LARGE FORM FACTOR
ROAD MAP: SPECIFIC ENERGY
2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
300
WH/KG SPECIFIC ENERGY
350
400
450
500
550
600
650
ACTIVE MATERIALS IMPROVEMENT AND ACTIVE/INACTIVE RATIO INCREASE
SILICON NANOWIRE ANODE
GRAPHITE ANODE
Thank You

24
Ionel Stefan, (510) 512-5484, ionel@amprius.com
Jon Bornstein, (408) 406-2671, jonb@amprius.com
Amprius wishes to acknowledge the funding received from
US Army C5ISR, DOE, USABC, and NASA --------------------------------------------------

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/private-company/amprius?mod=over_search COMPANY OVERVIEW

FOUNDED
2008

NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES
11-50

FOUNDERS
Mark Platshon, Yi Cui

LAST FUNDING ROUND DETAILS
Funding Type Series C
Announced Date Jan 6, 2014
Money Raised $30,000,000

FEATURED TEAM

Kang Sun
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER

Jon Bornstein
PRESIDENT & CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER

Yi Cui
CO-FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR

Mark Platshon
CO-FOUNDER & INVESTOR

William Deihl
CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER

Ionel Stefan
CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER

-------------------------------------------

https://insideevs.com/news/566876/amprius-ships-450whkg-battery-cells/

Join the discussion…


Avatar
jaxwins • 4 days ago
3-4 years in Musk`s time means 15-25 normal years.

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Tasslehoff jaxwins • 4 days ago
Well, the accurate quote is: "400 Wh/kg *with* high cycle life, produced in volume (not just a lab) is not far. Probably 3 to 4 years."

Life cycle, volume and price were not mentioned in the article.

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Joseph Dubeau Tasslehoff • 4 days ago
Elon Musk had nothing to do with it. tweet, tweet

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wydeeyde Tasslehoff • 4 days ago
I would suspect that aerospace would equate to a lower load and a long life cycle. Satellites can't be pulling into the Nio battery swap station every
12 months. Hauling stuff around in dense gravity on the other hand may
degrade the recycle life significantly. Tests required.

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Tasslehoff wydeeyde • 4 days ago
I agree. But it isn't mentioned still.

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Pitounet wydeeyde • 3 days ago • edited
"Pseudo Satellites".
A fancy word for very high altitude drones :).
They will come back on earth regularily. The advantage of the higher gravimetric energy is those pseudo satellites can stay longer in the upper atmosphere before going back. I think the upmost important part here is the gravimetric energy. I don't really know the power requirement, depending the type of drones, there could be requirements for short burst.
Also I wouldn't expect the cost to be a deciding factor here, for many of
those the performance is much more important than the cost.
As for cycle life, well it is nice to have a good one but not critical.

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4wheeler jaxwins • 3 days ago
Your comment has no factual basis; so it is just a snide remark, not
necessary in this thread.

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Doggydogworld • 4 days ago
SES sold their Li-metal anode cells into this high altitude drone market at least three years ago. IIRC they were around 450 Wh/kg. List price was fantastical, something like $5k per cell. They also talked of scaling production up, but it didn't happen.

Nanowires sound ridiculously hard to manufacture in volume. Let's hope I'm wrong.

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JonesNL • 4 days ago
What is the price per kWh? That is one of the most important metrics...

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peapod JonesNL • 4 days ago
And number of cycles, and safety?

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Leo O'Connor • 4 days ago
Still waiting for you to make a Bjorn Nyland 1k km style chart but with
battery company, battery name, battery size, and Wh/kg and Wh/l (and when
they will/do produce those) so we can compare how good those stats are for articles like this to others you have posted in the past.

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Tim Kulogo • 4 days ago
I did some math a few years back on what would be necessary for electric aircraft and I came up with 440Wh/kg. This is really exciting.

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super390 Tim Kulogo • 4 days ago
This battery is definitely going to the aerospace/military market. The sky's the limit on price over there.

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wydeeyde super390 • 4 days ago
No word play intended I presume.

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peapod Tim Kulogo • 4 days ago
440 Wh/kg at the cell (if it is even economically viable for aircraft propulsion) is maybe 350 Wh/kg in aircraft grade battery pack. Kerosene is
over 13,000 Wh/kg and the fuel tank is the typically the actual wing
structure. Modern gas turbines are about half as efficient as battery/inverter/electric motor. You are still talking about only 5% of the effective energy density as jet fuel (or gasoline for a piston aircraft)
Actual existing packs for aircraft are well under 200 Wh/kg. Commercially operated aircraft require fuel reserves that can easily eat up half or more
of the batteries capacity. A useful battery/electric aircraft remains a far
off dream.

Two person battery electric "sport" aircraft exist but have short useful endurance (you don't land with zero "fuel" remaining) even without reserve requirements reserves.

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Tim Kulogo peapod • 4 days ago
My numbers were for the cell level, and I had assumed non structural packs,
so if the batteries can be used structurally, that makes it easier. It was purely an engineering exercise, so regulations that prevent the use of
electric aircraft will have to be fixed by lawmakers. I can't really defend
my work because it was years ago when I did it, and I no longer have the
data, but at the time, I felt pretty confident about it. I guess we'll have
to wait and see.

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OC Tim Kulogo • 3 days ago
I think your numbers are highly optimistic for all but the shortest trips
(e.g. airport shuttle flights currently done by helicopters and short inter island flights).

Aeroderivative turbines aren't far off 50% efficiency for ELECTRICITY production (i.e. with the additional losses from the generator). They are
VERY efficient thermal engines.

An ultra high bypass turbofan in a modern jet is very, very efficient at creating thrust being over 40% efficient (chemical to kinetic). That doesn't sound impressive but when you realise that a Cessna's propeller at cruising speed only converts 73.5% of the mechanical energy provided by the prop
shaft into thrust you realise that unlike in an electric car there are
MASSIVE losses AFTER the conversion of chemical energy to rotational
mechanical energy.

1) Regulators will never remove the restrictions on fuel reserves as that's what prevents aircraft falling out of the sky;

2) Working out practical range etc is a HIGHLY complex undertaking as additional mass from a less energy dense carrier = more lift required = more drag = more energy required for the flight. Worse more mass from batteries = more structure to carry the mass / create the required lift = yet more mass
= yet more lift required = yet more drag created = yet more energy required;

3) This is made yet more difficult because liquid fuel gets burned during a flight = mass reduces = less lift required = less drag is produced = less energy required to move the aircraft through the air. A battery powered aircraft does not have that benefit.

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Ripi Tim Kulogo • 4 days ago • edited
Fuel cells or biofuels seems like a better solution for aviation.

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Tim Kulogo Ripi • 4 days ago
Only if batteries can't be made to work. Fuel cells or bio-fuels would would have a much higher operating cost, though both are preferable to using
fossil fuel.

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Ripi Tim Kulogo • 4 days ago
They will work. It's just that weight is incredibly important in airplanes. Much moreso than ground transport.

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happosai Ripi • an hour ago
There isn't enough land to grow all the feedstock needed to transition
aviation to biofuels. That is, unless we claim more nature to crop fields and/or we stop eating eating meat. The only scalable option is synthetic P2X fuels. That is costly, so it will mean flight tickets 2-3x the current
prices.

Back to the good old times when flying was a luxury...

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Ripi happosai • an hour ago
That seems like bologna since roughly 10% of all gasoline in the US is
ethanol.

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JonesNL Tim Kulogo • 3 days ago • edited
No! No! No!

Please stop spreading lies and false rumours. Al things equal
(payload&range) Energy density needs to 15 times from the 440Wh/kg numbers
with the assumption of structural batteries which would always be the case
in Aerospace. Of all part on a 787 and A350, around 80% is structural. Ex interior of course...

Assuming you are prepared to take a hit on range and you want a 737-7 150passenger plane to fly at 1000nm range, you need at least 7-10 times improvement on the 440 number.

Electric planes will come, but not so fast and big as you try to hype it...

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Ripi • 4 days ago
What am I doing wrong on this website. Everything expands like crazy when I start typing a comment.

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Edge Ripi • 4 days ago
I get that on my phone. After it jumps, start typing, and it should jump
back to the reply input.

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Ripi Edge • 4 days ago
I've noticed that works, but it still seems like everything is 900% normal size, which means I can't see what I'm typing.

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Luka Edge • 4 days ago
Worst thing, I think that's Discord bug as it happens on other sites too...

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Focus • 4 days ago

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