• MAC oover Denver

    From Larry Dighera@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 13 12:05:35 2021
    Two small airplanes collide midair above Denver, no one injured, authorities say

    Apparently, the two aircraft were cleared to land on intersecting runways,
    and the Cirrus pilot overshot his approach. https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/05/13/small-plane-crash-mid-air-collision-cherry-creek-reservoir-colorado/

    A very close call indeed. From the look of the wreckage, if either the wing
    or empennage of the Metroliner had been hit, it would have likely impacted
    the ground in a ball of fire.

    It seems like ATC should have some means of sequencing aircraft landing on intersecting runways so that they don't both reach the intersection at the
    same point in time.

    Perhaps it would be prudent to decline such clearances ...


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  • From Tobias Dussa@21:1/5 to Larry Dighera on Thu May 13 23:05:19 2021
    Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:
    Apparently, the two aircraft were cleared to land on intersecting runways,

    Not intersecting, but parallel. 17L and 17R. ATC recording is
    available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tb2dVWJqc

    More details on AvHerald: http://avherald.com/h?article=4e74b6e5

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    From now on, you will finance... us.

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  • From Larry Dighera@21:1/5 to Tobias Dussa on Fri May 14 07:10:11 2021

    No Injuries Reported In SR-22, Metroliner Midair (Updated)
    Kate O'Connor May 12, 202121

    Image: Arapahoe County Sheriff’s Office
    No injuries were reported in a midair collision involving a Key Lime Air SW4 Metroliner and a Cirrus SR-22 over Colorado’s Cherry Creek State Park on Wednesday. According to the Arapahoe County Sheriff’s Office, there were two people onboard the Cirrus and the aircraft’s CAPS whole-airframe parachute
    was deployed. The only person onboard the Metroliner was the pilot, who was able to land the aircraft at Centennial Airport (KAPA) following the
    accident with near catastrophic damage to the aircraft’s rear fuselage

    “About 10:25 a.m. today, the sheriff’s office as well as South Metro Fire
    began receiving calls of a plane crash near Belleview Avenue and South
    Cherry Creek Drive,” said Arapahoe County Sheriff’s Office deputy John Bartmann. “Deputies responded and found a single-engine plane had collided
    with another plane midair. The other plane was able to land at Centennial Airport without any issues and without any injuries.”

    ADS-B tracking data from FlightAware shows that the Metroliner was inbound
    from the west, being vectored for Runway 17L at Centennial, south of Denver. The Cirrus, which was rented from KAPA-based Independence Aviation, was returning to the airport after a flight to the north and was being vectored
    for Runway 17R from the northwest. As heard in the audio below from LiveATC.net, controllers were working the runways on different frequencies.
    The Metroliner, identified as Key Lime Flight 970, was a repositioning
    flight inbound to KAPA from Harriet Alexander Field (KANK) in Salida,

    According to the audio, the Cirrus had been cleared to land on 17R behind a Cessna, with another Cessna following. The Cirrus pilot called the first
    Cessna in sight and when the Metro was also pointed out, he appeared to
    confirm that traffic was in sight, too. The controller’s last transmission
    was to warn the Cirrus pilot not to overshoot the final to 17R. Moments
    later, the controller apparently saw the CAPs deployment and asked if the Cirrus required assistance. The Metro pilot may have been unaware of the collision. He declared an emergency after reporting an apparent engine
    failure and continued to the airport to land without further incident.

    Audio: LiveATC.net – Key Lime Flight 970 https://s30121.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/KAPA2-Twr1-May-12-2021-1600Z.mp3

    Audio: LiveATC.net – Cirrus SR-22 (6DJ) https://s30121.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/KAPA2-Twr2-May-12-2021-1600Z.mp3

    The NTSB is investigating the accident and expects to publish its
    preliminary report in the next 14 days. This story will be updated as more information becomes available.

    FlightAware ADS-B data, Centennial midair collision.

    Image: The Aviation Herald

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    Rich K May 12, 2021 at 3:18 pm
    And just last week, AvWeb ran a survey about “see and avoid”. From the looks
    of the picture, the Cirrus didn’t do either. Amazing that the Metroliner
    still has a tail!

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    Jeffrey S May 12, 2021 at 3:44 pm
    Now THAT’S a well-designed airplane!

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    Rob May 12, 2021 at 3:55 pm
    Nor did the Metroliner. Interesting how this can happen in Class D airspace.
    I guess the local controller just sequences airplanes for landing. Seems
    like the engineers all deserve a pat on the back!

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    Eric Reed May 12, 2021 at 9:52 pm
    Looking at the ADS-B data, it appears the Cirrus was about 30 knots faster maybe coming up from behind and to the right. The Metroliner pilot
    definitely would not have seen him coming.
    The Cirrus had reported Metroliner in sight, but by the time he was flying through his final he may have been above with it straight in front of him. Ultimately, it would have been the Cirrus pilots responsibility to maintain visual separation.

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    Arthur Foyt May 13, 2021 at 8:37 am
    I keep hearing “don’t fly through the final”. That’s ambiguous phraseology since a final is always a cone shape that only narrows near the runway.

    They need to be very clear and say “do not cross centerline”.

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    J.P. Fester May 14, 2021 at 8:34 am
    Arthur, with all due respect, any pilot worth his beans, knows that you
    SIMPLY don’t fly through the final of another runway! I wouldn’t even
    attempt to blame this on the controllers. This accident happened because of shear inattention of the Cirrus pilot. End of story.

    roger anderson May 14, 2021 at 9:37 am
    That’s all tower controllers do in the pattern, sequence you with who to follow. It becomes you responsibility for separation then. The local
    controller only has responsibility to provide runway separation, insuring
    only the allowed number of folks are using it at once. Now this isn’t to say Local would not reach out and add additional help of any type if they
    recognize an immanent safety situation. But unfortunately, from the tower
    cab and out to distances in the extended pattern, the eyeballs just can’t
    see details of all that is going on. And it can happen so quick, considering the tower controller isn’t just staring at one situation and must be looking around at numerous activities at any time, they just can’t be there for everyone every time. I say that from 38 years of ATC .

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    Matt W May 12, 2021 at 7:26 pm
    Judging by the ATC video I saw, there is a lot more involved here than “see
    and avoid”. Sure shows how rugged that Metroliner is, along with the cool
    radio response of the cargo pilot. Glad to hear no injuries.

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    Tom O May 12, 2021 at 8:36 pm
    I thought ADS-B would prevent Mid-Air Collision.. Oh, another Government Program gone to $#*&..

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    Tom O May 12, 2021 at 8:37 pm
    I thought ADS-B would prevent Mid-Air Collisions.. Ooop’s.. Another
    Government Program gone to $#*&..

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    Arthur Foyt May 12, 2021 at 11:18 pm
    The real beauty of the audio is listening to what’s being said in the background. The Female controller is heard asking several times “what do you want me to do”.

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    William Kalichman May 13, 2021 at 12:06 pm
    ADSB may help sometimes and for many people and applications is worth
    having. It’s not ADSB I’m opposed to rather the government mandate. Best way
    to make me or a patriot resist is to make a mandate.

    I saw a good video on this last night on YouTube.

    It *appears* the Cirrus overshot the centerline and ran over the Metroliner.

    Looking at the damage on the Metroliner it seems impossible it hit anyone; rather was the one hit.

    World class driving and coolness on the Metroliner’s pilot’s part.

    Also looks like a CAPS save for the Cirrus.

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    John Mc May 13, 2021 at 12:37 pm
    Wow, it’s a good thing the control cables for the Metroliner’s tail go
    through the belly and not overhead. Hard to believe there was enough
    structure left to hold the tail in place. It appears there is a visible sag
    of the aft structure in the ground photo.

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    Matt W May 13, 2021 at 5:50 pm
    The floor may have been reinforced since it is a cargo hauler.

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    Larry S May 13, 2021 at 4:58 pm
    Here’s a question no one has yet asked … did the Cirrus’ ELT go off ??
    Sounds like another subject for a subsequent PBgram ?? . Here’s a perfect example of ‘when ADS-B ‘out’ stops … that’s where the airplane is.

    Also, did either or both airplanes have and use ADS-B ‘in?’ Does all the Cirrus’ automation give a verbal “traffic, traffic” call out?

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    Cameron Garner May 13, 2021 at 5:21 pm
    The pattern is no place for flying ‘heads-down’!!

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    Matt W May 13, 2021 at 5:56 pm
    All the fancy ADS-B garbage does no good when you don’t follow ATC
    instructions after acknowledging traffic that was already pointed out. When doing close parallel visual approaches with traffic already known, you need your eyes looking out the window, not heads down trying to interpret a
    display. And when told to not overshoot the final on the runway you are
    cleared for you make sure you don’t overshoot!

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    Wise OldMan May 14, 2021 at 3:56 am
    …and Bertorelli insulted a YouTube commenter and told others the guy was
    full of sh*t for correctly mentioning that Bertorelli and his Bristell demo pilot had their heads inside 98% of the sunny Florida day video instead of adequately clearing for traffic, then Bertorelli refused to apologize or retract the insult when the relevant AC’s, AIM and FARs were pointed out to him. Still hasn’t.

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    John Patson May 14, 2021 at 5:21 am
    A good reason why you should try to avoid sitting at the back…
    Old joke about trains has a little old lady asking a conductor which was the most dangerous carriage to sit in.
    “The last one,” he says
    And she says “Then why don’t you take it off?”

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    Alpha Sierra May 14, 2021 at 8:08 am
    There are many things to learn from this. When ATC pointed out the
    metroliner traffic, the Cirrus pilot hesitantly acknowledged something, but
    it didn’t come across as a positive confirmation. When in doubt, it is
    better to say you don’t have it in sight. Once you report something as in sight, then it becomes your problem. Second lesson is, be super careful when parallel runway operations are taking place. Third lesson, don’t fly an
    unusual pattern – too fast or too wide. If you have to, make sure everyone
    in the pattern knows what you are doing. The metroliner pilot did a great
    job. I will send my family flying with him any day. The Cirrus pilot needs
    more training. The stars must have been aligned for him that day.

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    Jim Holdeman May 14, 2021 at 9:37 am
    High density altitude, parallel runways, ATC controlling both runways on different frequencies, calm winds on ground but a significant tailwind at pattern altitude for right traffic assigned to 17R when on base, low wing Cirrus airplane slightly higher than the Metroliner on a five mile straight
    in final, following his assigned, identified, and verified Cessna target aircraft in front of him, with all of these converging airplanes flying VFR depending in their visuals for traffic separation, and ATC allowing all of these converging aircraft, including a student on first solo, to arrive at
    the same time in the same airspace. What could possibly go wrong?

    Lots of opportunity for an accident chain to develop. I doubt of the Cirrus pilot ever saw the Metroliner being in a right hand bank above and slightly behind the Metroliner overtaking while descending. The Metroliner had no
    idea he was virtually sawed in half by another airplane. All he knew was
    that he had lost the right engine. See and avoid works when you see and
    avoid. Hard to avoid what you don’t see. Ground speed as well as distance
    goes up very fast at high density altitudes adding ingredients making a base
    to final turn with a tailwind a distinct possibility for overshooting the runway centerline. Not as serious of a problem for a 172 the Cirrus is following. But using the assigned 172 target aircraft ahead for one’s visual ques in a slick SR22 continues to whittle down any safety margins left when three airplanes all converge with in a couple of hundred of feet of each
    other on short final. I wonder how many tower people were looking outside of their “cockpit” as well.

    No one issue here. A bunch of issues all happening at the same time. It will
    be interesting to see how the relationship of the NTSB and FAA come together
    to sort this mess out.

    On Thu, 13 May 2021 23:05:19 +0200, Tobias Dussa <tobias@dussa.de> wrote:

    Larry Dighera <LDighera@att.net> writes:
    Apparently, the two aircraft were cleared to land on intersecting runways,

    Not intersecting, but parallel. 17L and 17R. ATC recording is
    available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tb2dVWJqc

    More details on AvHerald: http://avherald.com/h?article=4e74b6e5


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