Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can >probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be >installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the >parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3.
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner
has a reputation for being honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job
and skip the profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be
irked by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even,
I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake.
Or to skip almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards,
or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes,
and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors.
Its very unlikely that more than one has failed.
Is this true?
It varys with the shop.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes,
and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors.
Its very unlikely that more than one has failed.
It's very unlikely any of them have failed. I cannot even count the number of times I have seen cars blowing black smoke out the tailpipe which have just got new oxygen sensors because the computer was throwing a code saying the sensor was out of range in the rich direction.
The morons don't bother to figure out why it threw the code, they just swap out parts at random. They love swapping parts out.
--scott
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes,
and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors.
I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
On Fri, 02 Apr 2021 14:25:42 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can
probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be
installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be
installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the
parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be
tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the
paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
Depends on the shop. They make a small profit on parts. I am just giving the other side of the story... What happens if the parts you supply are incorrect,
broken, poor quality, out of specs, what happens then? Are you sure the sensors
are bad? Just asking. Maybe a bad cat or broken wires, misinterpretation of data. Use OEM or OEM supplier sensors or you may have another set of problems.
They can be in REAL inaccessible places and tough to remove. It depends.
Just like a lawyer would say: It depends. ;)
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote
Are my business assumptions correct?Its very unlikely that more than one has failed.
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes,
and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors.
It's very unlikely any of them have failed. I cannot even count the number of times I have seen cars blowing black smoke out the tailpipe which have just got new oxygen sensors because the computer was throwing a code saying the sensor was out of range in the rich direction.
The morons don't bother to figure out why it threw the code, they just swap out parts at random. They love swapping parts out.
--scott
micky wrote:
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can
probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be
installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be
installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the
parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be
tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the
paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
Well you can piss money away by changing the sensors but it's not going
to clear those codes. You have a different problem.
As to what the shop does, it depends on the shop. In mine if a customer brings their own parts, they are installed with no testing or warranty
given because those are the parts YOU want installed. It is also noted
on the paperwork that "Customer supplied parts installed per their
direction" That way if the parts are wrong or don't fix the issue it's
not my problem.
No difference in the labor rate.
Now a good shop would bring in the car, do an actual diagnostic on it,
then repair the real issue, which in this case could be nothing more
than a broken vacuum fitting or bad intake boot that is letting excess
air in past the MAF. Or a skewed MAF that is reading a low GPS number
and the PCM thinks it's getting less air than it really is. Fuel trims
and O2 live data would show that and changing the sensors will do nothing. Also you may wish to know that the only sensors involved with those
codes are the two upstream sensors, the downstream units are for testing
the cat efficiency and as back-ups to the upstreams if they fail.
changed, I know they are the problem" Instead of actually doing a diag
and finding the real issue.
They always seem to complain though when it doesn't repair the problem...
In article <s491im$6fr$2@dont-email.me>, Steve W. <csr684@NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
Yep, I love the ones who bring in a vehicle and say "Here I want XX >changed, I know they are the problem" Instead of actually doing a diag
and finding the real issue.
They always seem to complain though when it doesn't repair the problem...
"But I saw on the Internet that replacing the front bumper will fix the
rough idle problem!"
--scott
On 3/4/21 5:19 pm, Steve W. wrote:
micky wrote:
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to
install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can >> probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be >> installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be
installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the >> parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked >> by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be
tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the >> paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
Well you can piss money away by changing the sensors but it's not going
to clear those codes. You have a different problem.
As to what the shop does, it depends on the shop. In mine if a customer brings their own parts, they are installed with no testing or warranty given because those are the parts YOU want installed. It is also noted
on the paperwork that "Customer supplied parts installed per their direction" That way if the parts are wrong or don't fix the issue it's
not my problem.
No difference in the labor rate.
Now a good shop would bring in the car, do an actual diagnostic on it,
then repair the real issue, which in this case could be nothing more
than a broken vacuum fitting or bad intake boot that is letting excess
air in past the MAF. Or a skewed MAF that is reading a low GPS number
and the PCM thinks it's getting less air than it really is. Fuel trims
and O2 live data would show that and changing the sensors will do nothing. Also you may wish to know that the only sensors involved with those
codes are the two upstream sensors, the downstream units are for testing the cat efficiency and as back-ups to the upstreams if they fail.
It always amazes me how people think that a *code reader* is the be all
and end all of engine diagnostics. They seem to think an understanding
of what's going on under the hood is no longer necessary. Unfortunately
the diagnostician needs a very good understanding of system operation
else they will be continually replacing bits which are showing
*symptoms* of the real fault. This current case is the perfect example
of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
There certainly are a lot of videos about car repair. I haven't watched
it yet but this one is about how to make your own smoke machine! "Easy
and fun to build" What could be better than that.
I'm sure it's satisfying to make a good video and have
people watch it, but do they also make money somehow?
The ones that do a lot of it do.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote
Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes,
and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors.
Its very unlikely that more than one has failed.
I know I can install one of them, and
if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can
probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for
the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money.
However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be
installed.
For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works,
I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be
installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the
parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory
that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the
parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income.
Is this true?
Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being
honest?
Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the
profit they would have made on the parts?
If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked
by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be
tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip
almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the
paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat.
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