On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
-- this doesn't make sense to me.
On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
-- this doesn't make sense to me.
We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my >neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.
One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true?  I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on     stealing
the signal    and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown >> in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
  -- this doesn't make sense to me.
We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.
One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
On 9/26/2021 2:08 PM, Idlehands wrote:
On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true?  I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on     stealing
the signal    and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown >>> in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
  -- this doesn't make sense to me.
We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.
One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
That's why my wife and I both still use anti-theft steering wheel bars.
Every time and every place we park. Thieves are generally not willing
to take the time to pick the locks on the bars or try to saw through
them and will move to an easier target. Takes only about 5 seconds for
us to unlock the bar and put it on the floor behind the passenger seat.
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands <hidefromu@hushmail.com> wrote:
On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing >>> the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
-- this doesn't make sense to me.
We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.
One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
Thanks.
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
Thanks.
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a >button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands <hidefromu@hushmail.com> wrote:
On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing >>> the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
-- this doesn't make sense to me.
We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.
One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
Thanks.
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
In article <gdh1lg5jtue87og39j0qs6ue3mto67trep@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07 @fmguy.com says...
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
My Toyota manual says from one to two years. I change the batteries in
my 'key' every year when I get it inspected. Makes it easy to keep up
with that way.
On NextDoor, someone claims a car
can be unlocked by stealing the signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a button,
or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in
a faraday cage, as if the fob was transmitting all the time.
Or theyre referring to the fob that doesn't require a key
(what is that called?) Isn't the range of that only a few feet?
Even with the smallest yard, people inside have their fob
farther from their car than that, but someone else claims
they use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery
powered fob that does nothing unless you push the button.
Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can.
I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true?
I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but
I do often then use the fob to turn off the headlights
without its waiting 30 seconds.
I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is
also signed up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?
I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post
and clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on
stealing the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!!
It was shown in bold and the other words didn't appear.
Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.
I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.
-- this doesn't make sense to me.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote
On NextDoor, someone claims a car
can be unlocked by stealing the signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with
a button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.
Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and
the car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.
You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go
off all the time, frequently enough that people ignore them.
It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.
Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.
You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the time, frequently enough that people ignore them.
It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
--scott
On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.
Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.
You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
time, frequently enough that people ignore them.
It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
--scott
Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.
On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.
Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.
You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
time, frequently enough that people ignore them.
It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
--scott
Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.
On 09/27/2021 12:20 PM, Frank wrote:
On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!
I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a >>>> button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.
They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.
Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the >>> car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.
You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all
the
time, frequently enough that people ignore them.
It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
--scott
Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.
Thief opened the unlocked 94 Integra and carefully removed the cheap
($35) aftermarket radio without damaging anything. Middle of the day,
parked on a busy street. Replacement radio was $15 from Ebay. Hard to
see why anybody would bother -- as long as you steal something worth
less than $1K (per day, not $total) it's the equivalent of a traffic
ticket.
On 9/26/2021 3:14 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
Explains the process quite well.
Thanks.
So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
Changed mine after two years. That seems OK for me.
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