• entering car without a key, stealing the signal

    From micky@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 26 10:28:50 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
    fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
    that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
    use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
    the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
    in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
    or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
    in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
    CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Idlehands@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Sep 26 12:08:56 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
    fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
    that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
    use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
    the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
    in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
    or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
    in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
    CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    --
    "Circuses struggle to find new clowns as top prospects continue to go
    into politics"
    dailysquat.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to hidefromu@hushmail.com on Sun Sep 26 15:14:45 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands <hidefromu@hushmail.com> wrote:

    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
    fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
    that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
    use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
    the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
    in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
    or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
    in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
    CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my >neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    Thanks.

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
    problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Retirednoguilt@21:1/5 to Idlehands on Sun Sep 26 15:00:11 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 9/26/2021 2:08 PM, Idlehands wrote:
    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time.  Or theyre referring to the
    fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
    that only a few feet?  Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
    use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can.  I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true?   I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread.  Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on      stealing
    the signal     and the last hit was on the word "the"!!!  It was shown >> in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
    or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
    in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
    CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

       -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on.  We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars


    Explains the process quite well.


    That's why my wife and I both still use anti-theft steering wheel bars.
    Every time and every place we park. Thieves are generally not willing
    to take the time to pick the locks on the bars or try to saw through
    them and will move to an easier target. Takes only about 5 seconds for
    us to unlock the bar and put it on the floor behind the passenger seat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Idlehands@21:1/5 to Retirednoguilt on Sun Sep 26 13:34:47 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 2021-09-26 1:00 p.m., Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 9/26/2021 2:08 PM, Idlehands wrote:
    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time.  Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet?  Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can.  I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true?   I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread.  Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on      stealing
    the signal     and the last hit was on the word "the"!!!  It was shown >>> in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

       -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
    neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on.  We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars


    Explains the process quite well.


    That's why my wife and I both still use anti-theft steering wheel bars.
    Every time and every place we park.  Thieves are generally not willing
    to take the time to pick the locks on the bars or try to saw through
    them and will move to an easier target.  Takes only about 5 seconds for
    us to unlock the bar and put it on the floor behind the passenger seat.

    In this area they are more likely to steal anything of value left in the
    car then steal it, anti-theft bars are good but won't keep your
    belongings safe when they can pop the locks.

    Mind you I can't understand people who leave anything of value overnight
    in their cars when parked in open driveways.

    --
    "Circuses struggle to find new clowns as top prospects continue to go
    into politics"
    dailysquat.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Idlehands@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Sep 26 13:36:18 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 2021-09-26 1:14 p.m., micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands <hidefromu@hushmail.com> wrote:

    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing >>> the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
    in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
    neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    Thanks.

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?


    No idea, we haven't owned the car for over a year yet, the car will
    announce you need a new battery when it's time.

    --
    "Circuses struggle to find new clowns as top prospects continue to go
    into politics"
    dailysquat.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 26 16:10:24 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    In article <gdh1lg5jtue87og39j0qs6ue3mto67trep@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07 @fmguy.com says...

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?




    My Toyota manual says from one to two years. I change the batteries in
    my 'key' every year when I get it inspected. Makes it easy to keep up
    with that way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ""Retired"@home.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 26 16:37:51 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair


    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?


    Only the car itself transmits its relatively weak signal continuously,
    looking for a nearby fob. If the fob is far enough away from the car or
    in a "Faraday" bag/box, it won't "hear" the car, and does not respond.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Pawlowski@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Sep 26 16:56:02 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 9/26/2021 3:14 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    Thanks.

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?


    Changed mine after two years. That seems OK for me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com on Sun Sep 26 20:35:06 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a >button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
    car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
    time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob F@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Sep 26 15:46:08 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 9/26/2021 12:14 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands <hidefromu@hushmail.com> wrote:

    On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
    as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the >>> fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of >>> that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
    their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they >>> use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
    nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
    then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
    seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
    up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
    clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing >>> the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
    in bold and the other words didn't appear.


    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't >>> or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored >>> in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it >>> CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.


    We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
    neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

    One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
    leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
    stored in when she is home.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    Thanks.

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?


    My understanding is that the car is probing for the key all the time.
    The key hears the probe and responds to it. The crooks amplify the probe signal, then catch the response from the key and regenerate it near the car.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wade Garrett@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sun Sep 26 18:20:31 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 9/26/21 4:10 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <gdh1lg5jtue87og39j0qs6ue3mto67trep@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07 @fmguy.com says...

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
    problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?




    My Toyota manual says from one to two years. I change the batteries in
    my 'key' every year when I get it inspected. Makes it easy to keep up
    with that way.


    My 2016 Toyo is has the original battery in the keyless fob. It works fine.

    --
    It's every American's duty to support his government...but not
    necessarily in the style to which it has become accustomed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rod Speed@21:1/5 to micky on Mon Sep 27 17:13:38 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote

    On NextDoor, someone claims a car
    can be unlocked by stealing the signal!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_keyless_system

    The worst of them can be. But the best of them cant be.

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a button,

    Yes he is.

    or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in
    a faraday cage, as if the fob was transmitting all the time.

    Nope, the car is, but if it cant see the fob because its
    in a faraday cage, it obviously wont unlock the car.

    Or theyre referring to the fob that doesn't require a key
    (what is that called?) Isn't the range of that only a few feet?

    Not if you have a strong enough transmitter, but you will be
    next to the car if your want to unlock and loot it anyway.

    Even with the smallest yard, people inside have their fob
    farther from their car than that, but someone else claims
    they use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery
    powered fob that does nothing unless you push the button.

    Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
    the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
    can.

    That mangles the real story utterly.

    I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
    actual/true?

    Nope.

    I always lock my car with the door switch just because
    it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but
    I do often then use the fob to turn off the headlights
    without its waiting 30 seconds.

    I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is
    also signed up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

    I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post
    and clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on
    stealing the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!!
    It was shown in bold and the other words didn't appear.

    Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
    getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
    have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
    called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
    fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
    or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
    other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
    in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
    your car in a parking lot.

    I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
    CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
    entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
    in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

    -- this doesn't make sense to me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rod Speed@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Mon Sep 27 20:15:35 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote

    On NextDoor, someone claims a car
    can be unlocked by stealing the signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with
    a button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and
    the car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    Not possible where I park my car at home.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go
    off all the time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    I don’t ignore them when my neighbour's house or car alarms go off.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peeler@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 27 13:21:52 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:15:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
    Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

    <FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

    --
    Xeno to trolling senile Rodent:
    "You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
    MID: <id04c3F50peU1@mid.individual.net>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank <"frank@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Mon Sep 27 15:20:20 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
    car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
    --scott


    Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
    city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
    for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to Frank on Mon Sep 27 12:55:18 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 09/27/2021 12:20 PM, Frank wrote:
    On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
    car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
    time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
    --scott

    Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
    city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
    for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.

    Thief opened the unlocked 94 Integra and carefully removed the cheap
    ($35) aftermarket radio without damaging anything. Middle of the day,
    parked on a busy street. Replacement radio was $15 from Ebay. Hard to
    see why anybody would bother -- as long as you steal something worth
    less than $1K (per day, not $total) it's the equivalent of a traffic ticket.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    It only takes 2 men to tile a bathroom
    if you slice them thinly enough.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Frank on Mon Sep 27 20:02:18 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 09/27/2021 01:20 PM, Frank wrote:
    On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
    button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
    car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
    time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
    --scott


    Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
    city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
    for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.

    A friend had two Austin Healey 3000's stolen in Boston. After the second
    one he bought a Volvo sedan. Who would steal a Volvo? Someone did but at
    least he got that one back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Mon Sep 27 20:11:26 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On 09/27/2021 01:55 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 09/27/2021 12:20 PM, Frank wrote:
    On 9/26/2021 4:35 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
    signal!

    I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a >>>> button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

    They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

    Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the >>> car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

    You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all
    the
    time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

    It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
    --scott

    Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
    city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
    for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.

    Thief opened the unlocked 94 Integra and carefully removed the cheap
    ($35) aftermarket radio without damaging anything. Middle of the day,
    parked on a busy street. Replacement radio was $15 from Ebay. Hard to
    see why anybody would bother -- as long as you steal something worth
    less than $1K (per day, not $total) it's the equivalent of a traffic
    ticket.



    I had an old Dodge pickup that was a real beater. I left it in the
    parking lot at work and never drove it too much. It had a Radio Shack
    cassette player that could be removed by pressing a tab and pulling it
    out. One day I got in and the mount was dangling by a couple of screws
    but the player was still there. Apparently the subgenius couldn't
    figure out the mount.

    Another day I jumped in and turned on the wipers because is was raining.
    The wiper arms were gone.

    The final shot was when I sold it for $100. Some old fart wanted the
    entire pedigree of the truck and carefully inspected it. He crawled
    under to find 2 transmission bolts laying on the ground. I guess the
    beer ran out before they could steal the tranny.

    Said old fart kept asking questions to the point where I said 'It's a
    $100 pickup. Take it or leave it, I don't give a shit but we're done.'
    He took it. I really, really hate selling stuff.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Joyce@21:1/5 to Ed Pawlowski on Mon Oct 4 00:43:56 2021
    XPost: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:56:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:

    On 9/26/2021 3:14 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

    Explains the process quite well.

    Thanks.

    So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
    problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?


    Changed mine after two years. That seems OK for me.

    I have a 2016 Kia Sorento, bought new in September 2015, and a 2017 Toyota Tacoma, bought new in July 2017. Both key fobs died in April 2020 within a
    few weeks of each other. Fortunately, both used the standard CR2032 so I
    was able to use a 2-pack of batteries to fix both fobs.

    I guess it's safe to say that I don't change batteries proactively, since
    there doesn't seem to be much point. Both fobs have a physical key that can
    be used to unlock the doors and the engine can be started by pushing the
    start button with the dead fob. As a test, I completely removed the
    batteries and they still worked fine. I only lost the wireless convenience until I replaced the batteries.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)