BTW, if I use a dark-colored multi-layer rag to cover the light sensor
in the dashboard, I will trick the headlights into going on in the day
time. It takes 4 or 5 seconds for them to go on, and then about the
same for them to go off when I remove the rag. But doing this doesn't
make the Clock lights go on. But night time does make the clock lights
go on. What makes the car think it's night if covering the light
sensor didn't do that? WHAT ELSE COULD THERE BE?
Addressed especially to Clare and to anyone who thinks he's as smart as
Clare is.
Here is the wiring diagram for this car, https://www.dropbox.com/s/xoj71v8wiwwqtd7/Solara-Clock.odg?dl=0
It's an odg file, that LibreOffice Draw creates. I think most people
have programs that can display it, or the notes below have almost all
the same information.
I made an understandable but mistaken assumption in my first posts about this, so let's forget about them and let me ask the question correctly:
The instruments above my car radio on a 2005 Toyota Solara can't be seen
in the daytime, unless the sun shines in directly through the rear
window, but they are illuminated when it's dark out. The illumination is
fine and they are easy to read.
I want to read them in the daytime too!
The instrument unit includes
1 Trip Monitor (MPG, Avg MPG, DTE, avg MPH, ET)
2 Clock
3 Outdoor Temp
Passenger present but seat belt not on - light.
From now on I'll call this whole thing the Clock.
1 and 2 light up with ignition in ACC and ON, 3 lights up in ON, but in
all cases, only if it's dark out.
This is true when the headlight switch is in the Auto position or any
other position such as Parking light, Headlight, or OFF.
What misled me before is that I've observed and the wiring diagram
agrees that when it gets dark, a photocell signals the Body ECU which
closes the Taillight relay and that sends power to the taillights and
the Panel fuse, and the Panel fuse powers lights in the speedometer
cluster, radio buttons, AC buttons, seat heater switches, gear shift indicator and the glove box.
I mistakenly assumed that since those lights go on at night, the Clock
lights go on for the same reason. But in fact, the Clock lights go on
in the dark even if the Panel fuse has been removed, and they don't go
on in the daytime even if the Panel fuse has been bypassed to a source
that is 12V whenever the car is running, even in the daytime, and when
doing that has made all those other lights go on all the time that
normally go on only at night.
So am I to believe there are two separate mechanisms for turning on
lights at night? Why would they do that, and what would be the other mechanism?
BTW, if I use a dark-colored multi-layer rag to cover the light sensor
in the dashboard, I will trick the headlights into going on in the day
time. It takes 4 or 5 seconds for them to go on, and then about the
same for them to go off when I remove the rag. But doing this doesn't
make the Clock lights go on. But night time does make the clock lights
go on. What makes the car think it's night if covering the light
sensor didn't do that? WHAT ELSE COULD THERE BE?
So I looked in detail at the Clock. It's supplied by 5, count 'em,
five, fuses. Pins 7, 15, 16, 17, 22
7 comes from the IGN fuse, 12v when engine running
15 comes from the Panel fuse, 12v when it's dark out
16 comes from the Gauge1 fuse, 12v when ignition sw. is ON
17 comes from the ECU ACC fuse, 12v when key in ACC or ON
22 comes from the Dome fuse, always 12v,
All the pins are described next. Pin 6 seems hard to understand.
Pin 6. TAU terminal on the clock. Goes to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why
does it have input from the Injector. To calculate MPG, really? Even
though it has input on 5 labeled Fuel and on 12 labeled Speed. So why? Certainly not to tell the clock when it's dark out.
Label Color Conn. Function
1 GND1 W-B
2 TH- B-W IG6 AC ambient temp sensor (near front bumper)
3 TH+ G-R IG6 return from 2
4 SW 1 R Steering wheel display-control, and on to ground
5 FUEL LG-R to speedo cluster, fuel gauge, used for mpg display
6 TAU L IM2 to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why does it have input
from the Injector. For MPG? but it has input from 5-Fuel and
12-Speed.
7 TAUB B-R IM2 return from Injector No. 1 and also to IGN FUSE, 12v
when engine running
8 TBD L-B airbag sensor, 1
9 TX-1 W-B **but doesn't appy to my car
10 TX-2 W-B same as 1 for some reason
11 PBEW L-R airbag sensor, 2
12 SPD V-W to speedometer, used I'm sure for mpg display
13 DATA G-Y IK1 WHY? to TAM A11(A) A/C Control Assembly. So does
TAM mean Temperature AMbient? I guess so, since the AC page shows just
this part of the clock including pins 2 and 3 (the ambient temperature sensor), and since the instrument 3 in the list at the top is the
outdoor temperature.
14 P-AB V airbag sensor, 3
15 TAIL G to Panel FUSE, but light goes on at night even when
Panel fuse is missing, and doesn't go on in day-time, even when
Taillight relay is bypassed and Panel Fuse is energized.
16 IG R-L to Gauge1 FUSE, 12v when ign. sw. ON, powers the
pass. seat belt warning light and much other stuff, only have 2006
list.)
17 ACC Gr to ECU ACC FUSE, 12v when key in ACC or ON (also headlights, fog light, speedo meter, power mirror, AUTO LIGHT CONTROL)
18 ILL- W-G to speedo cluster (combination meter)
19 TAMO LG-R to skid control ECU. What does this have to do with
any of the 3 gauges in the clock?
22 B+ R from Dome FUSE, always 12v, needed to keep clock
running all the time (also dome light, fob receiver, garage door
opener)
But does any of this show how the lights in the Clock are on at night
and not on during the day?
(Part of the reason it's taken so long to ask this question is that some testing can only be done at night and some only int
"micky" <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote in message >news:sqrbagd8hslel2n2e03kd2orqk71rsnfm4@4ax.com........
Addressed especially to Clare and to anyone who thinks he's as smart as
Clare is.
Here is the wiring diagram for this car's Clock,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xoj71v8wiwwqtd7/Solara-Clock.odg?dl=0
BTW, if I use a dark-colored multi-layer rag to cover the light sensor
in the dashboard, I will trick the headlights into going on in the day
time. It takes 4 or 5 seconds for them to go on, and then about the
same for them to go off when I remove the rag. But doing this doesn't
make the Clock lights go on. But night time does make the clock lights
go on. What makes the car think it's night if covering the light
sensor didn't do that? WHAT ELSE COULD THERE BE?
So I looked in detail at the Clock. It's supplied by 5, count 'em,
five, fuses. Pins 7, 15, 16, 17, 22
7 comes from the IGN fuse, 12v when engine running
15 comes from the Panel fuse, 12v when it's dark out
16 comes from the Gauge1 fuse, 12v when ignition sw. is ON
17 comes from the ECU ACC fuse, 12v when key in ACC or ON
22 comes from the Dome fuse, always 12v,
All the pins are described next. Pin 6 seems hard to understand.
Pin 6. TAU terminal on the clock. Goes to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why
does it have input from the Injector. To calculate MPG, really? Even
though it has input on 5 labeled Fuel and on 12 labeled Speed. So why?
Certainly not to tell the clock when it's dark out.
Label Color Conn. Function
1 GND1 W-B
2 TH- B-W IG6 AC ambient temp sensor (near front bumper)
3 TH+ G-R IG6 return from 2
4 SW 1 R Steering wheel display-control, and on to ground
5 FUEL LG-R to speedo cluster, fuel gauge, used for mpg display
6 TAU L IM2 to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why does it have input
from the Injector. For MPG? but it has input from 5-Fuel and
12-Speed.
7 TAUB B-R IM2 return from Injector No. 1 and also to IGN FUSE, 12v
when engine running
8 TBD L-B airbag sensor, 1
9 TX-1 W-B **but doesn't appy to my car
10 TX-2 W-B same as 1 for some reason
11 PBEW L-R airbag sensor, 2
12 SPD V-W to speedometer, used I'm sure for mpg display
13 DATA G-Y IK1 WHY? to TAM A11(A) A/C Control Assembly. So does
TAM mean Temperature AMbient? I guess so, since the AC page shows just
this part of the clock including pins 2 and 3 (the ambient temperature
sensor), and since the instrument 3 in the list at the top is the
outdoor temperature.
14 P-AB V airbag sensor, 3
15 TAIL G to Panel FUSE, but light goes on at night even when
Panel fuse is missing, and doesn't go on in day-time, even when
Taillight relay is bypassed and Panel Fuse is energized.
16 IG R-L to Gauge1 FUSE, 12v when ign. sw. ON, powers the
pass. seat belt warning light and much other stuff, only have 2006
list.)
17 ACC Gr to ECU ACC FUSE, 12v when key in ACC or ON (also
headlights, fog light, speedo meter, power mirror, AUTO LIGHT CONTROL)
18 ILL- W-G to speedo cluster (combination meter)
19 TAMO LG-R to skid control ECU. What does this have to do with
any of the 3 gauges in the clock?
22 B+ R from Dome FUSE, always 12v, needed to keep clock
running all the time (also dome light, fob receiver, garage door
opener)
But does any of this show how the lights in the Clock are on at night
and not on during the day?
(Part of the reason it's taken so long to ask this question is that some
testing can only be done at night and some only int
Its certain that the problem is the programming, not the simple
electrical connections. The evidence for that is the delay you
see when covering and uncovering the photocell. That proves
that it isnt simple electrical connections driving what you see.
On Thu, 20 May 2021 12:40:39 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:
Addressed especially to Clare and to anyone who thinks he's as smart as >>Clare is.
Here is the wiring diagram for this car, >>https://www.dropbox.com/s/xoj71v8wiwwqtd7/Solara-Clock.odg?dl=0
It's an odg file, that LibreOffice Draw creates. I think most people
have programs that can display it, or the notes below have almost all
the same information.
Why couldn't you just use a JPEG file??
I made an understandable but mistaken assumption in my first posts about >>this, so let's forget about them and let me ask the question correctly:
The instruments above my car radio on a 2005 Toyota Solara can't be seen
in the daytime, unless the sun shines in directly through the rear
window, but they are illuminated when it's dark out. The illumination is >>fine and they are easy to read.
I want to read them in the daytime too!
The instrument unit includes
1 Trip Monitor (MPG, Avg MPG, DTE, avg MPH, ET)
2 Clock
3 Outdoor Temp
Passenger present but seat belt not on - light.
From now on I'll call this whole thing the Clock.
1 and 2 light up with ignition in ACC and ON, 3 lights up in ON, but in
all cases, only if it's dark out.
This is true when the headlight switch is in the Auto position or any >>other position such as Parking light, Headlight, or OFF.
What misled me before is that I've observed and the wiring diagram
agrees that when it gets dark, a photocell signals the Body ECU which >>closes the Taillight relay and that sends power to the taillights and
the Panel fuse, and the Panel fuse powers lights in the speedometer >>cluster, radio buttons, AC buttons, seat heater switches, gear shift >>indicator and the glove box.
I mistakenly assumed that since those lights go on at night, the Clock >>lights go on for the same reason. But in fact, the Clock lights go on
in the dark even if the Panel fuse has been removed, and they don't go
on in the daytime even if the Panel fuse has been bypassed to a source
that is 12V whenever the car is running, even in the daytime, and when >>doing that has made all those other lights go on all the time that
normally go on only at night.
So am I to believe there are two separate mechanisms for turning on
lights at night? Why would they do that, and what would be the other >>mechanism?
BTW, if I use a dark-colored multi-layer rag to cover the light sensor
in the dashboard, I will trick the headlights into going on in the day >>time. It takes 4 or 5 seconds for them to go on, and then about the
same for them to go off when I remove the rag. But doing this doesn't >>make the Clock lights go on. But night time does make the clock lights
go on. What makes the car think it's night if covering the light
sensor didn't do that? WHAT ELSE COULD THERE BE?
So I looked in detail at the Clock. It's supplied by 5, count 'em,
five, fuses. Pins 7, 15, 16, 17, 22
7 comes from the IGN fuse, 12v when engine running
15 comes from the Panel fuse, 12v when it's dark out
16 comes from the Gauge1 fuse, 12v when ignition sw. is ON
17 comes from the ECU ACC fuse, 12v when key in ACC or ON
22 comes from the Dome fuse, always 12v,
All the pins are described next. Pin 6 seems hard to understand.
Pin 6. TAU terminal on the clock. Goes to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why
does it have input from the Injector. To calculate MPG, really? Even >>though it has input on 5 labeled Fuel and on 12 labeled Speed. So why? >>Certainly not to tell the clock when it's dark out.
Tachometer input and injector pulse width used to calculate fuel flow.
Is there ever power on 18? How about when disconnected? Looks to me it
is the GROUND for the illumination of the clock. Try disconnecting it
(remove the pin from the connector) and grounding the clock side of
the connector. (Green and white).
I SUSPECT the clock lighting is controlled by the combination panel
grounding that wire..
If so, disconnecting it will make the clock
never light up. Grounding the wire will turn the lights on any time
power is supplied.
I would NOT ground it while still connected to the
combination meter - not LIKELY to cause any damage, but I wouldn't
risk it. To be SAFE I would use a variable resistor - about 500 ohms?
and grond it gradually to see of it comes on dimly and gets brighter
as the resistance drops - in case I'm wrong in my ASS U mption
Label Color Conn. Function
1 GND1 W-B
2 TH- B-W IG6 AC ambient temp sensor (near front bumper)
3 TH+ G-R IG6 return from 2
4 SW 1 R Steering wheel display-control, and on to ground
5 FUEL LG-R to speedo cluster, fuel gauge, used for mpg display
6 TAU L IM2 to Injector No. 1 WHY? Why does it have input
from the Injector. For MPG? but it has input from 5-Fuel and
12-Speed.
7 TAUB B-R IM2 return from Injector No. 1 and also to IGN FUSE, 12v >>when engine running
8 TBD L-B airbag sensor, 1
9 TX-1 W-B **but doesn't appy to my car
10 TX-2 W-B same as 1 for some reason
11 PBEW L-R airbag sensor, 2
12 SPD V-W to speedometer, used I'm sure for mpg display
13 DATA G-Y IK1 WHY? to TAM A11(A) A/C Control Assembly. So does
TAM mean Temperature AMbient? I guess so, since the AC page shows just >>this part of the clock including pins 2 and 3 (the ambient temperature >>sensor), and since the instrument 3 in the list at the top is the
outdoor temperature.
14 P-AB V airbag sensor, 3
15 TAIL G to Panel FUSE, but light goes on at night even when >>Panel fuse is missing, and doesn't go on in day-time, even when
Taillight relay is bypassed and Panel Fuse is energized.
16 IG R-L to Gauge1 FUSE, 12v when ign. sw. ON, powers the
pass. seat belt warning light and much other stuff, only have 2006
list.)
17 ACC Gr to ECU ACC FUSE, 12v when key in ACC or ON (also >>headlights, fog light, speedo meter, power mirror, AUTO LIGHT CONTROL)
18 ILL- W-G to speedo cluster (combination meter)
19 TAMO LG-R to skid control ECU. What does this have to do with >>any of the 3 gauges in the clock?
22 B+ R from Dome FUSE, always 12v, needed to keep clock >>running all the time (also dome light, fob receiver, garage door
opener)
But does any of this show how the lights in the Clock are on at night
and not on during the day?
(Part of the reason it's taken so long to ask this question is that some >>testing can only be done at night and some only i[n the day.]
Its certain that the problem is the programming, not the simple >>>electrical connections. The evidence for that is the delay you
see when covering and uncovering the photocell. That proves
that it isnt simple electrical connections driving what you see.
Even so, regardless of what the programming in the body ECU or elsewhere >>is, where the wires go into the Clock, there has to be something at
night that provides power to those lights, or in the daytime, a signal
that tells the Clock not to light up.
I'm ready to rewire the car to make up for that.
In the first case, if I could figure out*** what pin provides the power
for the light during the night, I could hot wire** it to provide the
same power during the day.
In the second case, if I could figure out which pin the signal comes to
the Clock to say don't light up, I could cut that wire. At least until
I saw what else that disabled. It might be worth it, it might not.
I THINK it is the green and white wire on pin 18 - the "illum -" wire
- if Im right disconnecting will make he light stay off?
This is ASSUMING it is not STILL just an issue of not having the
instrument panel dimmer adjusted properly which was my FIRST
suggestion months ago.
**That's what I tried to do in the first place. I removed the Panel
fuse but ran a jumper from the "On-when-runing power to the Seat Heater >>switch" to the Seat-heater-light. Now all those dash lights in parallel >>with the seat heater light are on whenever he car is running, not just
at night.
I want to do something similar for the Clock, but... Pin 18 goes to >>terminal Ill-, which stand for Illumination, but it's negative. I guess >>the possitive is one of those fuses.
Hmm going back to the speedo cluster would make sense if there was a
dimmer control on the speedo, and in some of the toyotanation posts
about dashlight, they had success by twisting the dimmer knob past the >>detent. But those cars were a year or two newer, and I don't have a >>detent. If I twist any harder, I'll break it.
Still, maybe if I "hot"-wire Ill-, pin 18, that is, not making it bot
but grounding it, maybe that will bypass something in the speedo part of >>the dash board. The wire is W-G and goes to the combinaton meter,
their word for the speedo cluster. There are in the wiring manual 160 >>instances of the word "combination". [-(
***I tried taking the Clock apart, but it was just a circuit board with
a chip and a few other parts.
I was ready to take out the speedo even though I didn't expect to find
the right wire, becaue I want to disconnect the beeper that squeals when
the key is in the ignition, the engine not running, and the driver's
door is open. More about that in another thread, yet to be posted.
This is ASSUMING it is not STILL just an issue of not having the >>instrument panel dimmer adjusted properly which was my FIRST
suggestion months ago.
I don't remember ignoring that line but I've been busy lately and
haven't caught readers here up on a lot of projects in progresss. I
hope to do that soon.
Anyhow, the dimmer didn't solve my problem (even though it seemed to
solve the opposite problem for people asking questions on the web.
And there is no detent on this dimmer.
BUT WHAT IS REALLY INTERESTING I LEARNED LAST NIGHT. I went out at 2AM
to check the car, even though I was sleepy and didn't really want to,
because if I didn't, I'd have to have waited until the next night.
So... in the dark, when the taillight relay is bypassed so that the dash >lights** are on even in the daytime, and the Clock lights are on
(because it's dark) the dimmer controls the brightness of all the
lights, every one***
BUT, AND GET THIS BUT, when I remove the jumper wire**** so that the the
dash lights** are not lit, then the dimmer control has NO EFFECT on the
Clock lights. The lights are at full brightness.
So in a way the Clock lights are independant of the Dash lights, but
otoh, they're simultaneously controlled by the same dimmer. That took
some work on Toyota's part.
The dimmer wiring isn't shown in the wiring manual -- I don't think the >dimmer is shown at all and certainly not individual wires -- but now
that the speedometer is out and its back off, I can see a little box
1/2" cube, on the surface of the circuit board, directly behind the
dimmer knob. It has a short connector, 1" wires, to the ciruit board
with yellow, red, blue, and black wires. I think it might only need 3
wires if Toyota had wired all the lights the same and the fourth might
be related to the Clock.
But I don't know which wire is the fourth, and if I did I wouldn't know >whether to cut it or to ground it, or what. The circuitry is too
confusing to me, since sometimes the dimmer has an effect and sometimes
it doesn't. And it's too close to other wiring it could affect. OTOH,
if nothing else works I might come back and fool around here.
It is so complicated, and Toyota went to a lot of trouble to make it
work this way, when if they'd done nothing and wired the Clock lights
the same as the other panel lights, it would have made more sense IMO,
not just for me but for anyone. And it would have enabled me to easily >hotwire them.
I don't miss not having lights on the other dash lights during the day
time, because everything is visible anyhow. The instruments are moving >needles, or there are buttons that can't be missed. As to the shift >indicator, I rarely look at that. I know where I put the shifter. As to
the glove box light, I think it should be illuminated in the day time
too, but it's been 30 years since I hunted for something in the glove
box. It's only the clock and the mpg/etc. that I want to see, and
because they are the only LCD indicators in the car, these are the ones
I can't read.
**Speedo, radio, AC, and seat heater buttons, console gear indicator
light, and glovebox light.
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