OK Arlen - who are the "many manufacturers"? Honda is only one.
On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.
I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.
Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.
If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the >oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.
But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.
For them it's about engineering.
Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil. >https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-many-miles-can-an-oil-filter-last/
If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question: >Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?
On 26-03-2021 23:11 mike <this@address.is.invalid> wrote:
(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam (2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!) (4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving
In that off hand list I forgot to mention what I found the first time I tore apart a $15 Fram filter from AutoZone (which had the worst pleating ever!)
*Shitty cardboard end plates*
Far less expensive oil filters have steel end plates and synthetic pleating without visible gaps at the ends and a with a long steel clamp at the seam!
On 03/25/2021 02:35 PM, Tekkie? wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike <this@address.is.invalid> wrote: >>
On 25-03-2021 13:08 <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned. >>>I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about. >>>
Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us. >>>
What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).
And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).
(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth). >>> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the >> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.
How dare you question Arlen?
I find it much easier to filter him...
On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?
Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change? >https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-often-should-you-change-your-oil-filter/
"Tekkie" <Tekkie@comcast.net> wrote in message news:sDq7I.66195$2P.6888@fx42.iad...
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to digest...
On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.
I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best? >> > (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?
But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?
Not just about money too.
You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs. >> >
Clearly we think differently.
You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.
I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they >> > buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so. >> >
But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start >> > with.
Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.
Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.
You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.
How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?
How many owners manuals do NOT specify different maintenance intervals
based
on the type of service (for example the severity of driving conditions such as "dusty conditions" and/or the total number of accumulated time and/or total number of accumulated miles)?
I have my 1990 Infiniti Q45 service manual in my hands at this very moment.
Page MA-5 shows a one to one oil change and filter interval while the very next page MA-6 shows an "R" (for replace) on the oil filter every other oil change and the air filter gets its "R" every fourth oil change interval
(the intervals being tabled under distance or time "whichever comes
first").
I can check others but you must have seen similar in maintenance schedules.
I care about making my car last.
Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
I follow the guidelines in the service manual that came with the car.
Following that book I've been driving my 1990 as my DD but since you're >worried I will tell you that for insurance against attacks by tigers
I've also carried an amethyst talisman in the trunk next to the manual.
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to digest...
On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.
I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best? >>
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?
Not just about money too.
You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money. >>> I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
Clearly we think differently.
You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.
Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy. >>> They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like. >>> They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does. >>> And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says. >>> And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.
Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like. >>> But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money. >>
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.
You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
On 3/26/2021 3:30 PM, Tekkie? wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to digest...
On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow >>>> test.
I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best? >>> (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?
But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?
Not just about money too.
You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money. >>> I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs. >>>
Clearly we think differently.
You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.
I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm >>>> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like. >>> They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so. >>>
But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start >>> with.
Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.
Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.
You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
Nah, Mike is polite. Arlen does not like at all and thinks I post under
at least five names.
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike <this@address.is.invalid> wrote:
On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.
I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.
Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed. >>
If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the >> oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which >> is why I said it's up to you.
But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.
For them it's about engineering.
Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-many-miles-can-an-oil-filter-last/
If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question: >> Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?
Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of toilet
paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an episode of Garage Squad.
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to digest...
On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.
I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?
But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?
Not just about money too.
You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
Clearly we think differently.
You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.
I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.
Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.
Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.
You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.
I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?
But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000 miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with the
present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have been
great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of thousand?
Not just about money too.
You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
Clearly we think differently.
You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance.
In the time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an
extra 5 filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.
I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.
Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.
Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty and
even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit. Owners manual says change the filter.
Was that the link that you intended?
No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual.
Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.
Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
you can do is drive and hope.
There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.
On 3/26/2021 3:47 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike
<this@address.is.invalid> wrote:
On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.
I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about
money.
It's about design and function.
Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to
them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like
you claimed.
If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil
filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same
interval which
is why I said it's up to you.
But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.
For them it's about engineering.
Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than
oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-many-miles-can-an-oil-filter-last/
If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer
this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does
the oil?
Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of
toilet
paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an
episode of
Garage Squad.
Considering the TP shortage we had I'd not be surprised if people
were unraveling filters to use in its place.
On 27-03-2021 01:22 Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid> wrote:
Was that the link that you intended?
Yes. Of course it was.
I think I'm the only one who isn't pulling all his ideas out of his ass. :) All my statements were backed up with relevent articles and shop manuals.
That link you read said exactly what I said that link said.
Actually I gave you two links which both said what I said they said.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-often-should-you-change-your-oil-filter/ https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-many-miles-can-an-oil-filter-last/
Please read both links again and let me know what you found when you do.
What you should find out is that both said exactly what I said they said.
I suggest you search for what it says about manufacturers recommendations.
:)
I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.
Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.
Stop being silly.
It gets better with each designation.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.
Mostly it gets better.
But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.
The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.
Looks like I missed all the fun. I bought a '84 Toyota 4x4, new in '83, and have driven Toyotas ever since. So far none have died on me, except one
that went up in flames after birds built a nest under the hood and I didn't notice until it was too late.
The links are a bit contradictory.
First link says:
keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time
Second link says:
Many manufacturers say to change the oil filter every other oil change.
many of them the same people who would never go past 3,000 miles
would never dream of doing an oil change without also changing the filter.
Why pass brand-new, clean oil through
I just follow my manual that says every change.
If yours differs, fine, follow it.
But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.
Do you own a diesel?
The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.
Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?
As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly >admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.
Do you?
Does anyone?
How?
What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.
As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.
Do you?
Does anyone?
How?
On 27-03-2021 05:00 Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
The links are a bit contradictory.
I know exactly what the links said.
It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.
I'm not a believer in bullshit as you can probably tell by now.
First link says:
keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time
Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week.
That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.
Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval.
Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.
I produced five.
Same way you compare any two oils.
Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.
There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones.
It's interesting to look across a given line... for example the
Castrol Syntec 10W-40 meets the latest
European standards but the 10W-30 and 10W-50 formulations do not.
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote
Same way you compare any two oils.
Alls you have is the jug in your hand when you're at the store.
Do you know of any real reviews (unbiased, not shills, not bullshit)?
Viscosity breakdown with time, viscosity curve with temperature,
adhesion, solvent characteristics, ability to keep particulates in
solution, three-ball test, etc.
All oils "breakdown with time."
Nothing wrong with replacing oil every single day but I'm asking about specifications for synthetic oil when the factory shop manual is followed. https://addinol.de/en/products/lubricants-for-the-automotive-sector/engine-oil/specifications/
There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones.
As the saying goes the problem is there are so many standards. :)
Alls I'm asking is if anyone here knows something about that choice
so that it can be made based on what's printed on the jug itself.
If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we need is a reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't
spew bullshit and which actually tests oil for what matters.
Is that asking for too much from this newsgroup?
So, do the tests and put it up.
Don't complain that information is missing from the internet.
Information
only gets on the internet because people like you and I put it there.
If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we need is a reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't
spew bullshit and which actually tests oil for what matters.
Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.
All oils "breakdown with time."
Yes, that's why you test it.
It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum inside a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You measure viscosity regularly and plot it against time.
Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of crosslinking or rings did poorly.
You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not just the base oil.
On 27-03-2021 21:14 Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
Yes, that's why you test it.
Of course.
Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily.
That's because it breaks down daily.
The filter too.
Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too much.
But that's not the way the world works.
Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you follow.
That's why specifications matter. That's why the specs that matter are usually printed on the oil container.
It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it was. It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful specifications.
Alls these other people know are dollar bills.
They make all their decisions based only on money.
That's fine.
It works for them.
But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product.
And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic
oil).
I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics.
At least not yet.
I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil though.
Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own assholes. Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about specs.
They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money. Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.
But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent
specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.
But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded).
So I guess I'm on my own.
It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum
inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You
measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.
Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil spec?
Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.
You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin
chains with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you
might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down,
not just
the base oil.
I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait
till Monday to get their technical people on the line.
Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the
advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear fruit.
I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8
And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one. https://addinol.de/en/products/lubricants-for-the-automotive-sector/engine-oil/specifications/
If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.
On 28/3/21 11:13 am, mike wrote:
On 27-03-2021 21:14 Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
Yes, that's why you test it.
Of course.
Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily.
That's because it breaks down daily.
Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process. Actually,
if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination. These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and fast rule on when
additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil sufficiently contaminated
to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil filter.
When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder vehicles had more frequent oil changes.
What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved out
of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved vastly.
This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota, has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the manufacturer at 10,000
km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained static.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a lot of
short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter capacity - the
point at which the filter will block up and commence bypass. A large
filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not need to be changed
more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter with half or a quarter
of the capacity might need to have a more frequent change interval.
My Toyota, at 5 years of age and with over 100,000 km clocked up, has servicing at factory recommended intervals. My wife's car, on the other
hand, has only done 40,000 km in the same time interval. It gets its servicing, including oil and filter changes, done by *time*. In other
words, it gets an oil change and filter every 6 months *regardless* of
what's on the odometer.
The filter too.
Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too
much.
But that's not the way the world works.
Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you
follow.
That's why specifications matter. That's why the specs that matter are
usually printed on the oil container.
Manufacturer's specs are a *guide* only. Servicing intervals are dictated
by many variables - there is no hard and fast service interval.
It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it
was.
It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful
specifications.
Alls these other people know are dollar bills.
They make all their decisions based only on money.
That's fine.
It works for them.
But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product.
And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic
oil).
For most laypeople, the specs on, say, the oil, are totally meaningless. I don't get anal about oil specs. If the oil I buy meets the *minimum* spec recommended by the car manufacturer, then that's what I go with. No point
in going with a more expensive or more highly speced oil if your engine cannot benefit from the increased capability.
I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics.
At least not yet.
I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil
though.
Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own
assholes.
Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about
specs.
They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money.
Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.
But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent
specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.
I make my decisions based on the car manufacturer's requirements. I figure they would have a clue about what works in engines they manufacture.
But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded).
So I guess I'm on my own.
It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum
inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You
measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.
Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil
spec?
Why do you get so anal about oil specs?
Pick an oil that matches your vehicle manufacturer's minimum spec and
you're good to go.
Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.
You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains
with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you
might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not
just
the base oil.
I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait
till Monday to get their technical people on the line.
Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the
advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear
fruit.
I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8
And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubricants-for-the-automotive-sector/engine-oil/specifications/
If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.
Why do you get so anal about oil specs?
On 28-03-2021 07:08 Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Why do you get so anal about oil specs?
You and I are the only ones who understood that oil and oil filters don't necessarily wear at the same rate at all times under all conditions.
Everyone else made all their decisions based on purely money &
convenience.
To them any thought outside of money & convenience would be "anal" to
them.
None of them even understood that the articles I listed said what they
said.
Some even said the articles didn't say what the articles definitely said.
To them to UNDERSTAND what an article said is "being anal" about it.
That's because all they know is money and convenience (and they said so).
That girl even claimed factory manuals don't say what they say.
To that girl anything that a shop manual says would be anal to her.
Her mind is set forever at whatever she feels her mind should be set at. Anything else (like understanding what the articles said) would be "anal."
I said many times it would be hard to find a bad oil and a bad oil filter although I also noted what to look for in that oil and in that filter.
(Also I mentioned that certain oil additives could damage a catalytic converter when people brought up the zinc additives which is clearly something none of them had ever heard or thought about in their lives).
All they ever cared about (and they said so) was their money &
convenience.
They said it many times that this was all they ever considered.
How can you NOT be considered anal with people THAT thoughtfully shallow?
To them just UNDERSTANDING something is being "anal" about it.
They couldn't even understand after many prompts what an article said.
Who is that ignorant to REPEATEDLY fail to understand those articles?
They REPEATEDLY failed to understand what the shop manuals actually say.
Why are they so ignorant?
All they cared about was their money and their convenience.
That's why.
At least they were very clear about that being the only thing that
mattered.
Which is why anything more than that is to them being "anal" about it.
To understand oil & filters & service intervals was way too much for them.
To understand anything at greater than the level of money is "anal" to
them.
Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination. >These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.
When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder >vehicles had more frequent oil changes.
What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained >static.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will >experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.
Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.
However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find
that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.
When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.
What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.
Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to
estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.
Bingo.
--scott
It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and operation.
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...
You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight open-end wrench
on the drain plug and had to go find another one in your tool box.
While looking for the other wrench you find the 10mm socket you lost a
few months ago. While contemplating this miracle you forget you were
looking for the other wrench..."
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car >thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this shit" becomes the
driving force.
On 03/28/2021 10:17 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight open-end wrench
on the drain plug and had to go find another one in your tool box. While looking for the other wrench you find the 10mm socket you lost a few
months ago. While contemplating this miracle you forget you were
looking for the other wrench..."
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this shit" becomes the driving force.
BTW, while walking I found both a regular and a deep 10mm 3/8 socket. Different walks, different locations. This is really disturbing.
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car >thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this shit" becomes the >driving force.
You might not be too old, it might be your tools.
--sc
In article <s3qdn7$g6k$1@dont-email.me>, wade@cooler.net says...
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.
As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?
In article <s3qdn7$g6k$1@dont-email.me>, wade@cooler.net says...
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.
As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?
Speaking of HF, I saved a club members night. His fan belt had jumped
off and he needed a 3/8 inch ratchet or pull bar. Out of about 20 men
there I was the only one that had the tool. It was in a $ 29.95 (with coupon) HF tool kit I keep in my truck for just emergencies. The tool
seemed ok after use, but it may never work again.
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this shit" becomes the
driving force.
In article <s3qdn7$g6k$1@dont-email.me>, wade@cooler.net says...
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.
On 3/28/21 7:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <s3qdn7$g6k$1@dont-email.me>, wade@cooler.net says...You're right, it's been a while since I've been underneath a Toyota.
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.
As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?
Didn't know about the change to hidden cartridge filters.
The oil filter in my wife's Subaru Forester is located on the top side
of the engine opposite the battery with its threaded end facing down.
You can remove the filter wearing white gloves and stay clean. The mess
that drips down into the engine and onto the garage floor is another
story however.
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle getting off the factory installed filter.
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.
They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle >>> getting off the factory installed filter.
They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.
I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.
On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak
Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.
I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak
On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not >>>> much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a
struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.
They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal
touches at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap
things over the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall
back on the strap wrench.
I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed
on a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of
months before I went in and did not realize that they had done an
unnecessary engine flush.
Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.
The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.
OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street" ;-)
On 03/28/2021 01:44 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this shit" becomes the driving force.
I was thinking that a few weekends ago when I swapped the studs for
street tires. Then I realized I'd just covered my next gym day and could
skip it.
1. 40 yard farmer's walk with 2 tires -- 4 reps
2. Breaker bar curls -- 40 reps
3. Squats -- 8 reps
4. Pushups -- 4 reps
5. various cardio maneuvers
6. Probably did some crunches or situps along the way
That makes changing oil a piece of cake. 1 pushup to see if anything is dripping.
On 3/28/21 10:28 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination. >> These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.
Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.
However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures
you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.
When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.
What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.
Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will >> experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact >> the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.
Bingo.
--scott
It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and operation.
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...
On 22-03-2021 23:20 mike <this@address.is.invalid> wrote:
I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska). https://warrendistribution.com/contact/ (800)825-1235 x1 customer service,
x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.
Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.
Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil) The guy who answered
wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the
datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]
But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil
selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).
What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1 https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-synthetic-blend-motor-oil%2c-1-quart6-pack.product.100594938.html
And pulled up the datasheet https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-super-synthetic-10w-30/
The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants
For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/what-to-buy/find-the-right-motor-oil/
But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly) https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/what-to-buy/find-the-right-motor-oil/product-recommendations?query=api/v1/en-us/wmi/recommendations/1990/68/896/1265/0/1
If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).
If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.
Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside. High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.
As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).
When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters. 1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel) x1 product information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm) https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/ https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/what-to-buy/find-the-right-motor-oil/product-recommendations?query=api/v1/en-us/wmi/recommendations/1990/68/896/1265/0/1
Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).
--
BTW, he said Penzoil starts with natural gas for their synthetics.
On 3/29/2021 1:40 PM, mike wrote:
On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak
Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.
Waterfront Restaurant on Anna Maria Island advertises "You catch, we cook"
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 40:32:58 |
| Calls: | 6,648 |
| Files: | 12,193 |
| Messages: | 5,329,420 |