• 40 years ago Formula 1 ran it's last Non-Championship race.

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 12 09:34:23 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    from facebook

    Alex Baisden
    1d

    April 10th 1983. 40 years ago today Formula 1 ran it's last
    Non-Championship race. The 1983 Race Of Champions at Brands Hatch.
    It produced an a fantastic all out battle between the reigning World
    Champion Keke Rosberg driving for Williams and a surprise challenger in
    Danny Sullivan in a Tyrrell in a race he remembers as being even better
    than his winning of the Indy 500. 1980 World Champion Alan Jones
    brought his Arrows home third.

    Despite occasional discussions no F1 event since has been staged outside
    of the World Championship.

    Something of a shame as Non Championship and Domestic Championship F1
    provided some superb racing, stories and events.

    In the pre broadcasting revenue model of the 50s, 60s and 70s it
    provided extra starting and prize money to teams and enabled them to fun
    World Championship campaigns. Many of the races actually provided
    better money than World Championship events and we're fiercely contested.

    The results of these races is often hugely overlooked which is a bit of
    a shame for those who competed in them just as fiercely in a more
    dangerous time. Many drivers of this era are missing F1 wins from their "official" totals due to them not coming in World Championship events.
    For example Juan Fangio has 13 F1 wins that most people don't know of.
    Jim Clark 19. Jack Brabham 15. For some drivers, like the late Tom
    Pryce or Chris Amon, their only F1 wins came in Non Championship events.

    Has F1 lost something by losing Non Championship Races and Domestic F1
    series? Is there an argument for bringing them back?

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  • From News@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 12 14:44:23 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    On 4/12/2023 12:34 PM, a425couple wrote:
    from facebook

    Alex Baisden
    1d

    April 10th 1983.  40 years ago today Formula 1 ran it's last Non-Championship race.  The 1983 Race Of Champions at Brands Hatch.
    It produced an a fantastic all out battle between the reigning World
    Champion Keke Rosberg driving for Williams and a surprise challenger in
    Danny Sullivan in a Tyrrell in a race he remembers as being even better
    than his winning of the Indy 500.  1980 World Champion Alan Jones
    brought his Arrows home third.

    Despite occasional discussions no F1 event since has been staged outside
    of the World Championship.

    Something of a shame as Non Championship and Domestic Championship F1 provided some superb racing, stories and events.

    In the pre broadcasting revenue model of the 50s, 60s and 70s it
    provided extra starting and prize money to teams and enabled them to fun World Championship campaigns.  Many of the races actually provided
    better money than World Championship events and we're fiercely contested.

    The results of these races is often hugely overlooked which is a bit of
    a shame for those who competed in them just as fiercely in a more
    dangerous time.  Many drivers of this era are missing F1 wins from their "official" totals due to them not coming in World Championship events.
    For example Juan Fangio has 13 F1 wins that most people don't know of.
    Jim Clark 19.  Jack Brabham 15.  For some drivers, like the late Tom
    Pryce or Chris Amon, their only F1 wins came in Non Championship events.

    Has F1 lost something by losing Non Championship Races and Domestic F1 series?  Is there an argument for bringing them back?


    Coincides with the end of the privateer era, and rise of mega-buck
    efforts, even in domestic pro series races. Unlikely to return.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to News on Wed Apr 12 12:20:55 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    On 4/12/23 11:44, News wrote:
    On 4/12/2023 12:34 PM, a425couple wrote:
    from facebook

    Alex Baisden
    1d

    April 10th 1983.  40 years ago today Formula 1 ran it's last
    Non-Championship race.  The 1983 Race Of Champions at Brands Hatch.
    It produced an a fantastic all out battle between the reigning World
    Champion Keke Rosberg driving for Williams and a surprise challenger
    in Danny Sullivan in a Tyrrell in a race he remembers as being even
    better than his winning of the Indy 500.  1980 World Champion Alan
    Jones brought his Arrows home third.

    Despite occasional discussions no F1 event since has been staged
    outside of the World Championship.

    Something of a shame as Non Championship and Domestic Championship F1
    provided some superb racing, stories and events.

    In the pre broadcasting revenue model of the 50s, 60s and 70s it
    provided extra starting and prize money to teams and enabled them to
    fun World Championship campaigns.  Many of the races actually provided
    better money than World Championship events and we're fiercely contested.

    The results of these races is often hugely overlooked which is a bit
    of a shame for those who competed in them just as fiercely in a more
    dangerous time.  Many drivers of this era are missing F1 wins from
    their "official" totals due to them not coming in World Championship
    events. For example Juan Fangio has 13 F1 wins that most people don't
    know of. Jim Clark 19.  Jack Brabham 15.  For some drivers, like the
    late Tom Pryce or Chris Amon, their only F1 wins came in Non
    Championship events.

    Has F1 lost something by losing Non Championship Races and Domestic F1
    series?  Is there an argument for bringing them back?


    Coincides with the end of the privateer era, and rise of mega-buck
    efforts, even in domestic pro series races. Unlikely to return.

    I agree. VERY unlikely to return.
    The costs to the teams (etc. are just too high, in that it can now
    only be afforded by the huge world wide marketing organization.


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  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to a425couple@hotmail.com on Wed Apr 12 22:33:33 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
    from facebook

    Alex Baisden
    1d

    April 10th 1983. 40 years ago today Formula 1 ran it's last
    Non-Championship race. The 1983 Race Of Champions at Brands Hatch.
    It produced an a fantastic all out battle between the reigning World
    Champion Keke Rosberg driving for Williams and a surprise challenger in
    Danny Sullivan in a Tyrrell in a race he remembers as being even better
    than his winning of the Indy 500. 1980 World Champion Alan Jones
    brought his Arrows home third.

    Despite occasional discussions no F1 event since has been staged outside
    of the World Championship.

    Something of a shame as Non Championship and Domestic Championship F1 provided some superb racing, stories and events.

    In the pre broadcasting revenue model of the 50s, 60s and 70s it
    provided extra starting and prize money to teams and enabled them to fun World Championship campaigns. Many of the races actually provided
    better money than World Championship events and we're fiercely contested.

    The results of these races is often hugely overlooked which is a bit of
    a shame for those who competed in them just as fiercely in a more
    dangerous time. Many drivers of this era are missing F1 wins from their "official" totals due to them not coming in World Championship events.
    For example Juan Fangio has 13 F1 wins that most people don't know of.
    Jim Clark 19. Jack Brabham 15. For some drivers, like the late Tom
    Pryce or Chris Amon, their only F1 wins came in Non Championship events.

    Has F1 lost something by losing Non Championship Races and Domestic F1 series? Is there an argument for bringing them back?


    We often went to the RoC (although I don’t recall the 1983 race) because Brands was within easy range of our home. It was a wonderful venue for F1,
    far better than Silverstone IMO.

    Back in the day F1 drivers often also competed in F2 (Jimmy Clark died in a
    F2 race).

    Chances of bringing back non-championship F1 races? Somewhere between zero
    and none I would have thought.

    --
    Sir Tim

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  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to News on Wed Apr 12 22:30:33 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
    On 4/12/2023 12:34 PM, a425couple wrote:
    from facebook

    Alex Baisden
    1d

    April 10th 1983.  40 years ago today Formula 1 ran it's last
    Non-Championship race.  The 1983 Race Of Champions at Brands Hatch.
    It produced an a fantastic all out battle between the reigning World
    Champion Keke Rosberg driving for Williams and a surprise challenger in
    Danny Sullivan in a Tyrrell in a race he remembers as being even better
    than his winning of the Indy 500.  1980 World Champion Alan Jones
    brought his Arrows home third.

    Despite occasional discussions no F1 event since has been staged outside
    of the World Championship.

    Something of a shame as Non Championship and Domestic Championship F1
    provided some superb racing, stories and events.

    In the pre broadcasting revenue model of the 50s, 60s and 70s it
    provided extra starting and prize money to teams and enabled them to fun
    World Championship campaigns.  Many of the races actually provided
    better money than World Championship events and we're fiercely contested.

    The results of these races is often hugely overlooked which is a bit of
    a shame for those who competed in them just as fiercely in a more
    dangerous time.  Many drivers of this era are missing F1 wins from their
    "official" totals due to them not coming in World Championship events.
    For example Juan Fangio has 13 F1 wins that most people don't know of.
    Jim Clark 19.  Jack Brabham 15.  For some drivers, like the late Tom
    Pryce or Chris Amon, their only F1 wins came in Non Championship events.

    Has F1 lost something by losing Non Championship Races and Domestic F1
    series?  Is there an argument for bringing them back?


    Coincides with the end of the privateer era <snip>

    Yeah. Names that I recall: Pete Lovely, Bob Bondurant, Godin de Beaufort … I’m sure there were lots more.


    --
    Sir Tim

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  • From Phil Carmody@21:1/5 to Sir Tim on Thu Apr 13 17:59:17 2023
    XPost: rec.autos.sport.f1

    Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:
    Chances of bringing back non-championship F1 races? Somewhere between
    zero and none I would have thought.

    With current FIA governance, I'd expect having a novelty race
    in clown cars to be more likely. And yes, I didn't say equally
    likely.

    Phil
    --
    We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
    -- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

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