“Whereas for both of us, there isn’t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I’m the new kid within the team and I’m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of the team when I’m going up against the greatest of all time who’s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that’s how it should be.” - George Russell, Apr 2022
Just being polite I guess.
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
...right?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
Alan wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
...right?
Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on this
group about what makes a world champion.
You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say, EVER!
On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has
been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and
I?m not going to go out there trying to be the leader of
the team when I?m going up against the greatest of all time
who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the captain of the
team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't
that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and
won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
...right?
Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on this group about what makes a world champion.Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
Russell...
...is...
...clearly...
...as...
...fast...
...as...
...Hamilton.
You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say, EVER!
On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis
has been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the
team and I?m not going to go out there trying to be the
leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He
is like the captain of the team and that?s how it
should be.?? - George Russell, Apr 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then
doesn't that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons
and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he
would probably have one just as many championships...
...right?
Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on
this group about what makes a world champion.
Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
Russell...
...is...
...clearly...
...as...
...fast...
...as...
...Hamilton.
You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say,
EVER!
There you go again.
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
(sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Alan wrote:
On 2022-04-22 3:01 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis
has been here for so long; I?m the new kid within the
team and I?m not going to go out there trying to be the
leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He
is like the captain of the team and that?s how it
should be.?? - George Russell, Apr 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as
Hamilton in the same car. So if Russell is correct, then
doesn't that make him the second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons
and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he
would probably have one just as many championships...
...right?
Do you even watch the races. You seem to know less than anyone on
this group about what makes a world champion.
Have you ever even driving a car on a road racing circuit?
Russell...
...is...
...clearly...
...as...
...fast...
...as...
...Hamilton.
You say the dumbest things I have heard anyone on this group say,
EVER!
There you go again.
It is clearly an infantile, naive opinion; shallow and lacking in any comprehension.
It's not an opinion at all.
It's a measurable fact.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 (sorry 7) world championships.
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out >>>>> there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr >>>>> 2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
Because you pick and choose when things need clear evidence and when
they don't. If it suits your theory, your standard of proof is very low
and if it doesn't you suddenly want incontrovertible evidence.
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Russell is pretty much as fast as (or faster than) Hamilton in the same
car right now. That's at the start of the season with a radically
changed car with acknowledged issues.
Now, before you then leap on that observation as proof that he's only
good in a good car, stick with this particular line of reasoning first.
That does *not* prove that Russell is as good as Hamilton. Every dog has
his day. You don't find that out in a few races. I suspect Russell is
very, very good. But he might burn out fast. Rosberg was as fast as
Hamilton at times, and managed to beat him over a season in the same
car. I think he's been clear that he found that year incredibly
difficult and didn't want to repeat it. I have never seen him claim that
he was (overall) Hamilton's better. Do you get the point?
Even if you believe that every one of his championship winning years he
had the best car, to maintain that level of competitiveness over that
long a time is special.
As I have said many, many times, I don't believe in GOAT. I wouldn't
award that title to anyone. I wouldn't compare Hamilton to Schumacher
let alone Fangio. It's meaningless. I *would* put people like Fangio,
Clark, Moss, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher (amongst others) into
the bracket of "the greats". I am certain Hamilton is in there somewhere
too, but I am loathe to mix the greats who have come before in with the drivers still active.
Russell may one day earn his place amongst the greats, but matching (or beating) Hamilton in the current car over a few races cannot somehow
award him the same (or close to the same) consideration by association.
If you can't admit the truth of what I wrote there and thereby admit
that this:
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
is wrongheaded (and pretty poor) sophistry, you deserve to be called a
troll.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8
(sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over (as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join
the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.
So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on which team he chooses do drive for?
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in >>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 >> (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would probably have one just as many championships...
Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over (as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
--
Sir Tim
On 2022-04-23 5:47 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in >>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 >>> (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
(as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers, both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
This is my problem, Tim.
Championships do not actually define who is great.
I'm sorry, but they just do not.
The greats usually win them, but that is because their talent is seen
and they end up getting the rides they want in the best cars.
Put simply:
Would Hamilton be any less a great driver (and I agree: he IS A GREAT DRIVER) if for some reason he had been locked into a long-term contract with... ...Williams for the last decade?
On 2022-04-23 11:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the >>>>> greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the
captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
Because you pick and choose when things need clear evidence and whenReally?
they don't. If it suits your theory, your standard of proof is very low
and if it doesn't you suddenly want incontrovertible evidence.
How have I done that?
What have I chosen to ignore?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
Russell is pretty much as fast as (or faster than) Hamilton in the sameBut it is the same car for both of them, agreed?
car right now. That's at the start of the season with a radically
changed car with acknowledged issues.
Now, before you then leap on that observation as proof that he's onlyThat's not what I have ever claimed.
good in a good car, stick with this particular line of reasoning first.
That does *not* prove that Russell is as good as Hamilton. Every dog has his day. You don't find that out in a few races. I suspect Russell isWhat you claim while you're a part of a team is not necessarily what you actually think, can you agree with that?
very, very good. But he might burn out fast. Rosberg was as fast as Hamilton at times, and managed to beat him over a season in the same
car. I think he's been clear that he found that year incredibly
difficult and didn't want to repeat it. I have never seen him claim that
he was (overall) Hamilton's better. Do you get the point?
Even if you believe that every one of his championship winning years heAnd I agree that Hamilton is one of the very best drivers of the current
had the best car, to maintain that level of competitiveness over that
long a time is special.
era.
What I don't accept is all those people who claim that simply because he
has won that many championships that that is proof he is the GOAT.
As I have said many, many times, I don't believe in GOAT. I wouldn't
award that title to anyone. I wouldn't compare Hamilton to Schumacher
let alone Fangio. It's meaningless. I *would* put people like Fangio, Clark, Moss, Stewart, Prost, Senna and Schumacher (amongst others) into
the bracket of "the greats". I am certain Hamilton is in there somewhere too, but I am loathe to mix the greats who have come before in with the drivers still active.
It's not meaningless to have these discussions. It's just that such discussions are fraught with problems because of the differences between eras.
However, one of the things that distinguishes the very, very best is
their ability to outperform their teammates by large margins.
Russell may one day earn his place amongst the greats, but matching (or beating) Hamilton in the current car over a few races cannot somehowBut if Russell (and Bottas and Rosberg) can all nearly equal him over seasons, it does argue against him being the goat.
award him the same (or close to the same) consideration by association.
If you can't admit the truth of what I wrote there and thereby admit
that this:
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in
the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the
second "greatest of all time"?
is wrongheaded (and pretty poor) sophistry, you deserve to be called a troll.Sorry, but I disagree.
It's not a single data point that supports my position:
It's Russell this season.
It's Russell stepping into a car that didn't even FIT him last season.
It's Bottas.
It's Rosberg.
They were all capable of matching or nearly matching Hamilton, not just occasionally, but consistently.
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... orSo you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on which team he chooses do drive for?
even getting lucky now and again.
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.
So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on which team he chooses do drive for?
Surely the point is that Hamilton’s talent was so obvious that several teams were keen to sign him. Not many drivers are in that situation.
--
Sir Tim
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:51:54 AM UTC+10, Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or >> even getting lucky now and again.
So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on which team he chooses do drive for?
Surely the point is that Hamilton’s talent was so obvious that several teams were keen to sign him. Not many drivers are in that situation.
--There are no GOATS.
Sir Tim
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or
even getting lucky now and again.
So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on
which team he chooses do drive for?
Surely the point is that Hamilton’s talent was so obvious that several teams were keen to sign him. Not many drivers are in that situation.
On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:47:44 PM UTC+10, Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here >>>>>>>> for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in >>>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>>>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 >>>> (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to
compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over >> (as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join
the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and
Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the
two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers,
both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
--
Sir Tim
Lewis has had "No 1" status. By hook or by crook.
Only a fool would doubt that.
On 2022-04-24 10:51 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-24 9:51 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Slang wrote:
Il 23/04/2022 20:02, Mark ha scritto:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
Are you here to contradict the words of Hamilton himself?
"If I hadn't put my ass on MB I would still have only one world
title".
He knows it better than all of you put together, i think.
You can't be one of the GOAT without making the right decisions... or >>> even getting lucky now and again.
So you're seriously saying that Hamilton's talent AS A DRIVER depends on >> which team he chooses do drive for?
Surely the point is that Hamilton’s talent was so obvious that several teams were keen to sign him. Not many drivers are in that situation.
You've missed the point of what I'm saying.
Would his abilities have been any less if by some chance he'd ended up
on a team that was utterly un-competitive? And the question is
rhetorical and the answer is (obviously): "Of course not".
Well the reverse applies as well.
One cannot point to 7 championships as "proof" of his abilities either.
Correct.
Absolutely, indisputably correct.
On 2022-04-24 12:50 p.m., build wrote:
On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:47:44 PM UTC+10, Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in >>>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>>>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 >>>> (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to >> compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
(as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join >> the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and >> Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the >> two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers, >> both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
--
Sir Tim
Lewis has had "No 1" status. By hook or by crook.Correct.
Only a fool would doubt that.
Absolutely, indisputably correct.
On 2022-04-24 12:50 p.m., build wrote:
On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:47:44 PM UTC+10, Sir Tim wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:53 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:Quite possibly, but he wasn’t and he hasn’t.
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-22 1:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
On 2022-04-21 6:36 p.m., geoff wrote:
?Whereas for both of us, there isn?t that because Lewis has been here
for so long; I?m the new kid within the team and I?m not going to go out
there trying to be the leader of the team when I?m going up against the
greatest of all time who?s been here for 10 years. He is like the >>>>>>>> captain of the team and that?s how it should be.?? - George Russell, Apr
2022
Just being polite I guess.
"Pol"... ...something.
Politic.
Confirmation...
...bias.
Really? Why?
The simple fact is that Russell is pretty much as fast as Hamilton in >>>>> the same car. So if Russell is correct, then doesn't that make him the >>>>> second "greatest of all time"?
Perhaps we should decide that when George has done 15 seasons and won 8 >>>> (sorry 7) world championships.
You get that if George had been around in as dominant a car he would
probably have one just as many championships...
Given that the concept of GOAT is almost entirely subjective, the time to >> compare the acknowledged greats of the sport is when their careers are over
(as we must assume Hamilton’s nearly is).
It is entirely possible that Leclerc, Verstappen and/or Russell will join >> the pantheon of acknowledged greats but it is much too early to say.
The number of WDCs won is a rather unreliable measure (compare Vettel and >> Alonso) but, if one were to use it, Schumacher and Hamilton would be the >> two standout drivers. Both had dominant cars for much of their careers, >> both won WDCs for two different teams but, whereas Michael usually had
No.1. status and a compliant team mate, Lewis didn’t.
--
Sir Tim
Lewis has had "No 1" status. By hook or by crook.Correct.
Only a fool would doubt that.
Absolutely, indisputably correct.
You've missed the point of what I'm saying.
[snipped]
There are no GOATS.
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