'In the last couple of years there has been a general agreement with the teams that the Race Director should always endeavour to have the race
ending under green flag conditions, even if only for a lap or two, as at
Baku earlier this year.'
<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.unpicking-the-safety-car-period-that-turned-the-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html>
'In this situation, that would have been impossible to achieve if normal sporting regulation protocol was followed. By Lap 56, with two laps to
go, the scene was close to being cleared. In this situation, lapped cars
are usually allowed to unlap themselves and the Safety Car then pits at
the end of the following lap, giving those cars the chance to join the
back of the pack before the race becomes live. But there wasn?t time to
do that. This would have seen the Safety Car peeling off into the pit
lane one corner from the chequered flag.'
I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
between the teams and the race director that any safety car period that
came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as possible.
'In this situation, that would have been impossible to achieve if
normal sporting regulation protocol was followed.
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would
be no
restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:So who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in there with
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the championship
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the
tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping
their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday
would have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him
the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on
that.
I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
between the teams and the race director that any safety car period
that came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as
possible.
On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 22:36:57 UTC, Alan wrote:
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:So who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in there with
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres >>> were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no >>> restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would >>> have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.
a marketing "ace" who "runs the numbers" and says "Hey guys, this will run well on the socials if you bring in the SC now".
I don't doubt that Masi is influenced in his approach by the commercial rights holders etc; it's an overriding factor for him no doubt.
But I think you can *absolutely count on* the fact that the decisions taken during the race in those final laps were taken only by the RD with the steward and clerk of the course team.
Thereafter, in the retrospective interpretation of the rules that was applied following Mercs protests, I can buy that there was more direct influence
from Liberty et al; there was at the very least time for that to happen.
But during the race? Nah, cloud cookoo land.
Alan wrote:
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the
tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping
their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday
would have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him
the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Fuckwit. His job is so many things other than that.
He is the FIA. It is his job to police the FIA regulations.
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on
that.
Certainly he may have been under pressures generally. If he is being
strongly influenced in his decision process by Liberty it is all the
more reason that he should be replaced by someone with more integrity.
As for claiming he did not make the call without direct interference
from either other party, while highly unlikely, it would go further to demonstrate why the decision lacked integrity and equity.
Though it lacks any basis in fact, you have made a, somewhat flaccid,
case that he is definitely not fit for the job had it any substance.
Alan wrote:
I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
between the teams and the race director that any safety car period
that came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as
possible.
Go for it. If it says guys, "forget the regs let's go racing" you
finally have a point.
Anything short of that and you are just wasting everyone's time again.
Interesting.
Interesting.
On 2021-12-15 6:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator
the tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were
hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on
count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would
almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the
FIAsco Sunday would have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost
him the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Fuckwit. His job is so many things other than that.
He is the FIA. It is his job to police the FIA regulations.
So he has no one to who he reports, does he?
Interesting.
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count
on that.
Certainly he may have been under pressures generally. If he is being strongly influenced in his decision process by Liberty it is all the
more reason that he should be replaced by someone with more
integrity.
You are utterly missing the point.
As for claiming he did not make the call without direct interference
from either other party, while highly unlikely, it would go further
to demonstrate why the decision lacked integrity and equity.
I didn't claim there was "direct" interference.
I believe that he would have been told what his bosses would prefer
to have happen before it ever actually came up in the race; before
the race ever started in fact.
Though it lacks any basis in fact, you have made a, somewhat
flaccid, case that he is definitely not fit for the job had it any substance.
And you think they'll hire someone who isn't "flaccid", do you?
Interesting.
On 2021-12-15 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan wrote:
I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was
Chain Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement between the teams and the race director that any safety
car period that came out near the end of the race would be ended
as quickly as possible.
Go for it. If it says guys, "forget the regs let's go racing" you
finally have a point.
Anything short of that and you are just wasting everyone's time
again.
I was saying I can find the references to the existence of such an
agreement, specifically made for this race, and that a part of the
agreement was that any safety car period toward the end of the race
should end as quickly as possible.
Unlike you, I don't pretend to know things I don't know, so I'll tell
you that I don't have access to the text of this agreement.
'Masi gave evidence to the stewards, saying that the purpose of
Article 48.12 was to remove lapped cars that would interfere with the
leaders — in this case Hamilton and Verstappen.
He also said that teams had agreed that it was “highly desirable for
the race to end in a ‘green’ condition (i.e. not under a safety
car).”'
'But Masi decided to give those two cars a 70-second head start on
Verstappen and Ricciardo. The motivation behind this was to ensure
the race concluded with a green flag lap, an outcome Masi later said
the teams had previously agreed was “highly desirable”.'
On 2021-12-15 1:13 a.m., Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 22:36:57 UTC, Alan wrote:
On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
Baku was a very different situation in any case.
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator
the tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were
hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on
count back.
Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would
almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the
FIAsco Sunday would have made no difference.
It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost
him the championship.
(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
resign)
Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely countSo who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in
on that.
there with a marketing "ace" who "runs the numbers" and says "Hey
guys, this will run well on the socials if you bring in the SC now".
Nope. I think that Liberty talked to the FIA about what they would
want and that the FIA communicated that to Masi...
...before the race ever started.
I don't doubt that Masi is influenced in his approach by the
commercial rights holders etc; it's an overriding factor for him no
doubt.
But I think you can *absolutely count on* the fact that the
decisions taken during the race in those final laps were taken only
by the RD with the steward and clerk of the course team.
Following discussions with the FIA and the teams prior to event
starting, yes.
Thereafter, in the retrospective interpretation of the rules that
was applied following Mercs protests, I can buy that there was more
direct influence from Liberty et al; there was at the very least
time for that to happen.
But during the race? Nah, cloud cookoo land.
"Make sure the race doesn't end behind the safety car and if at all
possible, with Hamilton and Verstappen fighting for the win all the
way to the end."
Something like that could have been said immediately after Saudi
Arabia.
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