• Re: Oh dear, that was just wrong.

    From Bigbird@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 12 15:11:50 2021
    Why it was wrong.

    39.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the
    message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
    OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging
    system, any cars that
    have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the
    lead lap and the safety
    car.
    This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed
    the Line at the end of the
    lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second
    time after the safety car
    was deployed.

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  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 12 14:43:37 2021
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Darryl Johnson@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Sun Dec 12 10:40:59 2021
    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable decisions
    this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to the job of
    race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From alister@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Sun Dec 12 15:43:01 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 15:11:50 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    Why it was wrong.

    39.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the
    message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors
    via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety
    car.
    This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed
    the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first
    Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.

    Also as quoted by the commentary team, "When ALL lapped cars have passed
    The safety care will come in at the end of the FOLLOWING LAP".



    --
    Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.
    -- Lily Tomlin

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  • From alister@21:1/5 to Darryl Johnson on Sun Dec 12 15:49:06 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable decisions
    this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to the job of
    race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place
    of he had finished under the saftey car many would have called foul, like
    wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly




    --
    [Wisdom] is a tree of life to those laying
    hold of her, making happy each one holding her fast.
    -- Proverbs 3:18, NSV

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  • From Alan LeHun@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 12 15:57:40 2021
    In article <sp55li$1eg$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
    says...
    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly


    Unfortunately, he chose an option that at first glance does not appear
    to have been available to him. And it was an option that made Max's
    victory a near certainty. All other options (all the obviously legal
    ones) would have resulted in a Lewis win.

    It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

    --
    Alan LeHun

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  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to alister on Sun Dec 12 16:20:06 2021
    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with
    him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with
    various team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited
    to the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place
    of he had finished under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but
    to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From alister@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Sun Dec 12 16:28:15 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:20:06 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to
    the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place of he had finished
    under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but
    to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    I don't think I am in anyway disagreeing with you. the 2021 championship
    is now seriously tarnished.




    --
    Banectomy, n.:
    The removal of bruises on a banana.
    -- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"

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  • From Martin Harran@21:1/5 to alister.ware@ntlworld.com on Sun Dec 12 17:35:40 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), alister
    <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:20:06 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to
    the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place of he had finished
    under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of
    personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but
    to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    I don't think I am in anyway disagreeing with you. the 2021 championship
    is now seriously tarnished.

    It has been a fantastic battle between Ham and Ver all season and I
    think most people (the sensible ones anyway) felt that whichever of
    them finished up WDC would be a worthy winner. It's sad that instead
    of arguing about what the two drivers did and didn't do, we are now
    arguing about what the race director did and didn't do :(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Sir Tim@21:1/5 to Martin Harran on Sun Dec 12 17:44:36 2021
    Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), alister
    <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:20:06 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him. >>>>>
    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various >>>>> team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to >>>>> the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place of he had finished >>>> under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of
    personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but
    to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    I don't think I am in anyway disagreeing with you. the 2021 championship
    is now seriously tarnished.

    It has been a fantastic battle between Ham and Ver all season and I
    think most people (the sensible ones anyway) felt that whichever of
    them finished up WDC would be a worthy winner. It's sad that instead
    of arguing about what the two drivers did and didn't do, we are now
    arguing about what the race director did and didn't do :(


    Indeed, although in this case I don’t think there is much to argue about - the race director made a decision which was in contravention of the rules
    and an injustice resulted. Masi should resign.

    --
    Sir Tim

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  • From XYXPDQ@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Sun Dec 12 10:47:02 2021
    On Sunday, December 12, 2021 at 6:43:39 AM UTC-8, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.


    Guess even the FIA couldn't stomach having the season end under a safety car. They had already given The Chosen One a huge break at the start of the race.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to XYXPDQ on Sun Dec 12 19:27:56 2021
    XYXPDQ wrote:

    On Sunday, December 12, 2021 at 6:43:39 AM UTC-8, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.


    Guess even the FIA couldn't stomach having the season end under a
    safety car. They had already given The Chosen One a huge break at
    the start of the race.

    You will have to negotiate with other posters to decide who is "the
    chosen one". It's a bit of a ridiculous moniker to use if it is
    completely ambiguous.

    I am happy to help if you can't remember the driver's names.

    --
    Bozo bin
    Build
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to XYXPDQ on Sun Dec 12 15:48:35 2021
    On 2021-12-12 10:47 a.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    On Sunday, December 12, 2021 at 6:43:39 AM UTC-8, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.


    Guess even the FIA couldn't stomach having the season end under a safety car. They had already given The Chosen One a huge break at the start of the race.

    Seriously with "The Chosen One" bullshit?

    What "break", and who got it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to alister on Mon Dec 13 16:41:32 2021
    On 13/12/2021 5:28 am, alister wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:20:06 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to
    the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place of he had finished
    under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of
    personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but
    to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    I don't think I am in anyway disagreeing with you. the 2021 championship
    is now seriously tarnished.

    Tarnished is putting it mildly. It was gifted to RBR by an intimidated excuse for a race director
    and as such should be deleted from the record books. Max fought valiantly but he didn't win the WDC
    fairly - and for once it wasn't his doing.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Mon Dec 13 16:33:54 2021
    On 13/12/2021 3:43 am, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    Yep. Masi isn't up to the job.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to alister on Mon Dec 13 16:38:39 2021
    On 13/12/2021 4:49 am, alister wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable decisions
    this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to the job of
    race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place
    of he had finished under the saftey car many would have called foul, like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    I don't know why so many people are against the race ending under the safety car. It in no way
    undoes all of the racing that has gone on beforehand that got the cars to where they are in the
    race order.

    In fact I DO know why! It's about spectacle, not sport.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to Sir Tim on Mon Dec 13 16:43:50 2021
    On 13/12/2021 6:44 am, Sir Tim wrote:
    Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), alister
    <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:20:06 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

    alister wrote:

    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him. >>>>>>
    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various >>>>>> team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable
    decisions this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to >>>>>> the job of race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place of he had finished >>>>> under the saftey car many would have called foul,
    like wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    If he had finished under the SC it would not have been ideal but it
    would have been normal procedure and he could not have been accused of >>>> personally influencing the outcome of the championship.

    It cannot be helped that the SC procedure negates a 12 second lead but >>>> to ignore the regs in order to give a driver an unwarranted advantage
    needs to be addressed.

    I don't think I am in anyway disagreeing with you. the 2021 championship >>> is now seriously tarnished.

    It has been a fantastic battle between Ham and Ver all season and I
    think most people (the sensible ones anyway) felt that whichever of
    them finished up WDC would be a worthy winner. It's sad that instead
    of arguing about what the two drivers did and didn't do, we are now
    arguing about what the race director did and didn't do :(


    Indeed, although in this case I don’t think there is much to argue about - the race director made a decision which was in contravention of the rules
    and an injustice resulted. Masi should resign.

    +1 - But only after he changes the race results to reflect the racing order on lap 57 - before his
    illegal call took effect.

    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Brian Lawrence@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 13 08:41:50 2021
    On 13/12/2021 03:38, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 13/12/2021 4:49 am, alister wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:40:59 -0500, Darryl Johnson wrote:

    On 2021-12-12 9:43 AM, Bigbird wrote:
    The FIA have out done themselves this season.

    Their most consistent trait is making controversial decisions.

    I'm sure Masi is a nice guy. It might be fun to have a beer with him.

    And I'm also sure that he is under considerable pressure with various
    team managers in his ear.

    But it seems to me that he has made a number of questionable decisions
    this past year that suggest he might not be best suited to the job of
    race director. Spa, certainly. Today as well.

    I think he felt he was between a rock & a hard place
    of he had finished under the saftey car many would have called foul, like
    wise if he had left cars between Lewis & Max

    whatever decision was made this would not have ended quietly

    I don't know why so many people are against the race ending under the
    safety car. It in no way undoes all of the racing that has gone on
    beforehand that got the cars to where they are in the race order.

    In fact I DO know why! It's about spectacle, not sport.

    I dug out the stats:

    Races ended under SC

    1999 Canadian GP Accident 66 3
    2009 Australian GP Accident 55 3
    2009 Italian GP Accident 53 1
    2010 Monaco GP Accident 75 3
    2012 Brazilian GP Accident 70 1
    2015 Chinese GP Stranded car 54 2
    2019 Bahrain GP 2 stranded cars 55 2
    2020 Bahrain GP Stranded car 54 3

    Last column is number of SC laps

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