• Did VER get penalised for ...

    From geoff@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 6 17:31:15 2021
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Heron@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Dec 6 04:41:37 2021
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Heron on Mon Dec 6 09:06:28 2021
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    Could he have been playing it a bit dirty? Yeah... ...he could have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Dec 6 08:54:56 2021
    On 2021-12-05 8:31 p.m., geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    Guys, guys (and girls)...

    Verstappen's move at Brazil was not "too-fast/late breaking[sic]" or "impossibly-hopeful".

    Look up what is known as the "recovery line" and educate yourself.

    He got penalized for going off track when Hamilton had gotten clear
    ahead on the front straight, and the driving off inside of the track at
    turn 2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Jackson@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Dec 6 14:50:39 2021
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."

    --
    Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
    I love being told I'm growing up wrong by people
    I don't want to turn out like. - Caulfield (Jef Mallett)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to Mark Jackson on Mon Dec 6 15:16:45 2021
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in impact.
    No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc cock-up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to News on Tue Dec 7 09:43:57 2021
    On 7/12/2021 9:16 am, News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in impact.
    No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc cock-up.


    Watch it in real-time - there was barely time for a communication and
    VER applied it so quickly. Maybe a second to two delay on Merc's part.
    But VER's ploy was very deliberate.

    geoff

    geoff

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Mark Jackson on Mon Dec 6 12:44:41 2021
    On 2021-12-06 11:50 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."


    Yeah. I read that.

    Totally deserved the additional penalty.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Dec 6 12:46:40 2021
    On 2021-12-06 12:43 p.m., geoff wrote:
    On 7/12/2021 9:16 am, News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM >>>>>> off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in
    impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc
    cock-up.


    Watch it in real-time - there was barely time for a communication and
    VER applied it so quickly. Maybe a second to two delay on Merc's part.
    But VER's ploy was very deliberate.

    What could be more deliberate that hitting the brakes?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to News on Mon Dec 6 12:45:50 2021
    On 2021-12-06 12:16 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in impact.
    No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc cock-up.

    But it really was brake-check if he's hitting the pedal. In normal
    situations where you're letting someone by, all it takes is letting off
    the pedal, and thus that is what the other driver expects.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Dec 6 15:59:25 2021
    On 12/6/2021 3:45 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 12:16 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM >>>>>> off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in
    impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc
    cock-up.

    But it really was brake-check if he's hitting the pedal. In normal
    situations where you're letting someone by, all it takes is letting off
    the pedal, and thus that is what the other driver expects.

    He had already lifted and moved over to allow the follower to pass!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Dec 7 10:01:28 2021
    On 7/12/2021 6:06 am, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    Could he have been playing it a bit dirty? Yeah... ...he could have.

    I was referring to the one after the restart on lap 15 at Turn 1, where
    VER tried to go into the left-hand corner around HAM at an angle/speed
    that could have never made the corner,(and didn't, all four wheel right
    off) and came back on track into HAM who had to take evasive action and
    ended up behind Ocon.

    The second time he did it, more extremely, he did get the order to give
    the place back. But the first was just as blatant, if not as spectacular.

    And if you do have to give a place back and another car has got
    in-between, that does complicate things further .

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to News on Mon Dec 6 13:32:01 2021
    On 2021-12-06 12:59 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 3:45 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 12:16 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race. >>> Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in
    impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc
    cock-up.

    But it really was brake-check if he's hitting the pedal. In normal
    situations where you're letting someone by, all it takes is letting
    off the pedal, and thus that is what the other driver expects.

    He had already lifted and moved over to allow the follower to pass!

    Agreed, but that still doesn't give him the right to hit the brakes.

    One of the things we teach those who come to the SCCBC's school every
    year is that you want to be PREDICTABLE. We specifically call out that
    if you're being overtaken by a faster car, the MOST you should do as a
    slower car is indicate to the driver behind that you'd like him to pass
    on a particular side. We teach them to NEVER move out of the way.

    When you're racing for real, a missed shift where you're only losing
    drive for less than a second will put a driver close behind by you in
    almost no time, so once Verstappen eases off the throttle, Hamilton has
    all he needs to get by successfully.

    That's why we need a new rule, because Hamilton pretty clearly did NOT
    want to take the position back just before the DRS detection zone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to geoff on Mon Dec 6 13:39:04 2021
    On 2021-12-06 1:01 p.m., geoff wrote:
    On 7/12/2021 6:06 am, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct about
    "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it. Mostly
    because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the wings.

    Could he have been playing it a bit dirty? Yeah... ...he could have.

    I was referring to the one after the restart on lap 15 at Turn 1, where
    VER tried to go into the left-hand corner around HAM at an angle/speed
    that could have never made the corner,(and didn't, all four wheel right
    off) and came back on track into HAM who had to take evasive action and
    ended up behind Ocon.

    The second time he did it, more extremely, he did get the order to give
    the place back. But the first was just as blatant, if not as spectacular.

    And if you do have to give a place back and another car has got
    in-between, that does complicate things further .

    geoff

    Isn't the first one the one he received a 5 second time penalty for?

    This was a very confusing race.

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Darryl Johnson@21:1/5 to News on Mon Dec 6 16:54:31 2021
    On 2021-12-06 3:16 PM, News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM
    off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race.
    Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in impact.
    No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc cock-up.

    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of Mercedes, but
    it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the message in time to
    let Hamilton know. A simple change to the order of notifications would,
    it seems to me, would prevent this problem: let Mercedes know *before*
    letting Red Bull know that Verstappen was to give the place back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Dec 6 22:33:11 2021
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-do nt-apply/

    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.


    Unless you look at the stewards decision...

    Not only was there braking but there was some very confusing movement
    by Max wandering around in the middle of the track, not to one side as
    is usual for a driver ceding a place.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to News on Mon Dec 6 22:35:01 2021
    News wrote:

    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line
    running HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rule s-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from
    the wings.

    The Stewards, who did have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for
    the Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly
    (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to
    race. Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the
    place. Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted
    in impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total
    Merc cock-up.

    Lol, so says the self appointed group fool. Now shake your head and
    make the bells ring.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to News on Mon Dec 6 22:36:36 2021
    News wrote:

    On 12/6/2021 3:45 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 12:16 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line
    running HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen- rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is
    correct about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I
    very much doubt it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag
    from the wings.

    The Stewards, who did have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point
    for the Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked
    suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g
    deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue
    to race. Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to
    take the place. Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to
    overtake resulted in impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset
    onto the ground. Total Merc cock-up.

    But it really was brake-check if he's hitting the pedal. In normal situations where you're letting someone by, all it takes is letting
    off the pedal, and thus that is what the other driver expects.

    He had already lifted and moved over to allow the follower to pass!

    Moved all over the place...

    Dance for me, fool.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Dec 6 22:39:42 2021
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-05 8:31 p.m., geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    Guys, guys (and girls)...

    Verstappen's move at Brazil was not "too-fast/late breaking[sic]" or "impossibly-hopeful".


    Yes it was, young lady, lad. If you still haven't conceded that you
    really are hopeless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to News on Tue Dec 7 11:52:20 2021
    On 7/12/2021 9:59 am, News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 3:45 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 12:16 p.m., News wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from the
    wings.

    The Stewards, who *did* have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the
    Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar)
    and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to race. >>> Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the place.
    Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted in
    impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total Merc
    cock-up.

    But it really was brake-check if he's hitting the pedal. In normal
    situations where you're letting someone by, all it takes is letting
    off the pedal, and thus that is what the other driver expects.

    He had already lifted and moved over to allow the follower to pass!

    Moved *slightly* hit the brakes and did a little side-to-side wiggle
    thing. All within a second or two, and knowing how close HAM was and
    what speed he was approaching at.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Dec 6 14:45:49 2021
    On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 9:54:59 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

    educate yourself.

    fuck yourself

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ~misfit~@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Tue Dec 7 12:44:59 2021
    On 7/12/2021 11:35 am, Bigbird wrote:
    News wrote:

    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line
    running HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rule
    s-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from
    the wings.

    The Stewards, who did have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for
    the Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly
    (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to
    race. Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the
    place. Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted
    in impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total
    Merc cock-up.

    Lol, so says the self appointed group fool. Now shake your head and
    make the bells ring.

    First the fool says it didn't happen then he says there was justification but doesn't mention that
    the braking was just so that he (Max) didn't get to the DRS line before Lewis. (Once he did he took
    off like a cut cat.)

    Dirty driving, pure and simple. I'm sooo pleased the fool isn't a steward.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Mon Dec 6 15:51:32 2021
    On 2021-12-06 2:33 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-do
    nt-apply/

    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt it.
    Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.


    Unless you look at the stewards decision...

    Not only was there braking but there was some very confusing movement
    by Max wandering around in the middle of the track, not to one side as
    is usual for a driver ceding a place.


    That was a place on the track where you can drive flat-out, so the
    racing line on a curved section like that is the shortest available line.

    Verstappen was well off that shortest line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Dec 7 11:18:53 2021
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:33 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-do
    nt-apply/

    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.


    Unless you look at the stewards decision...

    Not only was there braking but there was some very confusing
    movement by Max wandering around in the middle of the track, not to
    one side as is usual for a driver ceding a place.


    That was a place on the track where you can drive flat-out, so the
    racing line on a curved section like that is the shortest available
    line.


    A naive over simplification. Watch an inboard lap and see how often
    that simplification holds up.
    Obviously even were it the case for that precise corner Hamilton would
    be looking to get a slipstream.

    So nothing you say refutes anything that happened as described.

    Verstappen was well off that shortest line.

    See above.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Dec 7 11:46:34 2021
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:33 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-do
    nt-apply/

    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.


    Unless you look at the stewards decision...

    Not only was there braking but there was some very confusing
    movement by Max wandering around in the middle of the track, not to
    one side as is usual for a driver ceding a place.


    That was a place on the track where you can drive flat-out, so the
    racing line on a curved section like that is the shortest available
    line.

    Verstappen was well off that shortest line.

    I just had a look at Hamilton's pole lap and he positioned himself
    "almost precisely" (by which, unlike you I don't mean a track width
    away) on the line where Max slowed, in fact just to the right... so Max
    was right on the racing line.

    You might find it a helpful indicator that they often have kerbing on
    the side of the track closest to the racing line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Dec 7 11:20:57 2021
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:33 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan wrote:

    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line running
    HAM off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rules-do
    nt-apply/

    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.


    Unless you look at the stewards decision...

    Not only was there braking but there was some very confusing
    movement by Max wandering around in the middle of the track, not to
    one side as is usual for a driver ceding a place.


    That was a place on the track where you can drive flat-out, so the
    racing line on a curved section like that is the shortest available
    line.

    Verstappen was well off that shortest line.

    ps do you have the competence to find an onboard lap or are going to
    claim to be retard who needs a specific url for one, again? :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan LeHun@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 7 15:20:36 2021
    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of Mercedes, but
    it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the message in time to
    let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back and
    knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that part of
    the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing the drs
    line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis was holding
    back from taking the place, then tried to force the situation.

    What Lewis /should/ have done, in an ideal world, was take the place and
    if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the place be
    given back again as Max would have retained a clear advantage. However,
    he had no way of knowing if the stewards would see it that way.


    --
    Alan LeHun

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 7 11:40:58 2021
    On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 6:13:58 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    First the fool says it didn't happen then he says there was justification but doesn't mention that
    the braking was just so that he (Max) didn't get to the DRS line before Lewis. (Once he did he took
    off like a cut cat.)

    Dirty driving, pure and simple. I'm sooo pleased the fool isn't a steward.

    Here comes the peanut gallery.
    Useless as tits on a bull.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Alan LeHun on Wed Dec 8 08:59:41 2021
    On 8/12/2021 4:20 am, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of Mercedes, but
    it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the message in time to
    let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back and
    knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that part of
    the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing the drs
    line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis was holding
    back from taking the place, then tried to force the situation.

    What Lewis /should/ have done, in an ideal world, was take the place and
    if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the place be
    given back again as Max would have retained a clear advantage. However,
    he had no way of knowing if the stewards would see it that way.




    Has that ever been done before. Or would the stewards have had to invoke
    a quick re-write of the rule-book before ordering ?

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Alan LeHun on Tue Dec 7 12:17:44 2021
    On 2021-12-07 7:20 a.m., Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of Mercedes, but
    it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the message in time to
    let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back and
    knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that part of
    the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing the drs
    line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis was holding
    back from taking the place, then tried to force the situation.

    What Lewis /should/ have done, in an ideal world, was take the place and
    if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the place be
    given back again as Max would have retained a clear advantage. However,
    he had no way of knowing if the stewards would see it that way.

    So...

    If we do it that way, just exactly when would Verstappen have been
    allowed to overtake again?

    Hamilton takes back the place instead of getting brake-checked.

    Up the main straight DRS zone, Verstappen gets DRS, but can't overtake.

    So he's right on Hamilton's gearbox going into turn 1.

    Can he now overtake?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to geoff on Wed Dec 8 10:51:18 2021
    geoff wrote:

    On 8/12/2021 4:20 am, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get
    the message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place
    back and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at
    that part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until
    passing the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing
    that Lewis was holding back from taking the place, then tried to
    force the situation.

    What Lewis should have done, in an ideal world, was take the place
    and if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the
    place be given back again as Max would have retained a clear
    advantage. However, he had no way of knowing if the stewards would
    see it that way.




    Has that ever been done before. Or would the stewards have had to
    invoke a quick re-write of the rule-book before ordering ?


    This situation does not involve the rule book or even the stewards; the stewards simply take it into account when considering any penalty for
    the original infringement. Being able to give a place back to avoid a
    possible penalty is, as far as I am aware, an option outside of the regulations. If the infringement is "gaining an advantage" and you cede
    that advantage before the stewards "investigate" you may avoid a
    penalty.

    The race director didn't have any trouble telling Max his second
    attempt the very next lap was inadequate... and the stewards did not
    have any trouble issuing him with a 5 second penalty for the original
    incident indicating that they thought it was inadequate also. Stewards
    tend to follow the recommendations of the race director but they are
    not bound to do so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Alan LeHun on Wed Dec 8 10:36:45 2021
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the
    middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.

    What Lewis should have done, in an ideal world, was take the place
    and if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the
    place be given back again as Max would have retained a clear
    advantage. However, he had no way of knowing if the stewards would
    see it that way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Wed Dec 8 09:11:18 2021
    On 2021-12-08 2:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the
    middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.

    From both of them.

    But only Max committed an act which went beyond the bounds.


    What Lewis should have done, in an ideal world, was take the place
    and if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the
    place be given back again as Max would have retained a clear
    advantage. However, he had no way of knowing if the stewards would
    see it that way.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 8 09:41:09 2021
    On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:11:20 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-08 2:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1...@dont-email.me>, darryl_...@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.
    From both of them.

    But only Max committed an act which went beyond the bounds.

    fuck off asshole

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to texas gate on Wed Dec 8 09:45:58 2021
    On 2021-12-08 9:41 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:11:20 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-08 2:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1...@dont-email.me>, darryl_...@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the
    middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.
    From both of them.

    But only Max committed an act which went beyond the bounds.

    fuck off asshole


    Again... ...adults talking.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 8 10:24:00 2021
    On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:46:01 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

    Again... ...adults talking.

    except that you are a juvenile piece of shit troll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Dec 9 09:11:36 2021
    On 9/12/2021 6:11 am, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-08 2:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the
    middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.

    From both of them.

    But only Max committed an act which went beyond the bounds.


    What Lewis should have done, in an ideal world, was take the place
    and if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the
    place be given back again as Max would have retained a clear
    advantage. However, he had no way of knowing if the stewards would
    see it that way.



    Everybody appears to have forgotten the subsequent weaving. Small though
    it was.

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to geoff on Wed Dec 8 12:55:51 2021
    On 2021-12-08 12:11 p.m., geoff wrote:
    On 9/12/2021 6:11 am, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-08 2:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Alan LeHun wrote:

    In article <som0qh$n3c$1@dont-email.me>, darryl_johnson@rogers.com
    says...
    I don't know that it was or wasn't an error on the part of
    Mercedes, but it seems to me that they claimed they did not get the
    message in time to let Hamilton know.


    Do not be fooled!

    Lewis most certainly knew that Max was trying to give the place back
    and knew exactly what he was trying to do by giving it back at that
    part of the track. Lewis decided to hang back and wait until passing
    the drs line before receiving the place and Max, seeing that Lewis
    was holding back from taking the place, then tried to force the
    situation.


    It didn't help that Max was already thinking about get back on the
    racing line to sipstream Lewis and was meandering somewhat towards the
    middle of the track. If he had stayed right he may have got away
    without a collision.

    Too much gamesmanship too little common sense.

     From both of them.

    But only Max committed an act which went beyond the bounds.


    What Lewis should have done, in an ideal world, was take the place
    and if Max then overtook him on the next drs straight, demand the
    place be given back again as Max would have retained a clear
    advantage. However, he had no way of knowing if the stewards would
    see it that way.



    Everybody appears to have forgotten the subsequent weaving. Small though
    it was.

    Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass him. Why would he weave, and
    subsequent to what?

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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 8 13:24:45 2021
    On 2021-12-06 3:44 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 7/12/2021 11:35 am, Bigbird wrote:
    News wrote:

    On 12/6/2021 2:50 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
    On 12/6/2021 12:06 PM, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-12-06 2:41 a.m., Heron wrote:
    On 12/5/2021 10:31 PM, geoff wrote:
    ... his too-fast/late breaking/impossibly-hopeful line
    running HAM  off-track just like a race or two ago ?

    Or is that now considered OK.

    geoff

    Hamilton tells Max: Rules don’t apply to one of us
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-rule
    s-dont-apply/


    Without the data, there is no way to tell if Hamilton is correct
    about  "steep heavy braking" by Verstappen, but I very much doubt
    it. Mostly  because actual "braking" wasn't necessary.

    Remember, at high speeds, F1 cars produce over 1g of drag from
    the wings.

    The Stewards, who did have the telemetry data, sayeth:

    "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for
    the  Stewards was that the driver of Car 33 then braked suddenly
    (69 bar) and  significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."



    Right, to shake Ham off him, let him pass, so he could continue to
    race.  Too bad the Merc radio failed to inform Ham timely to take the
    place. Ham tucked in tight, and a late decision to overtake resulted
    in impact. No wonder Wolf threw his headset onto the ground. Total
    Merc cock-up.

    Lol, so says the self appointed group fool. Now shake your head and
    make the bells ring.

    First the fool says it didn't happen then he says there was
    justification but doesn't mention that the braking was just so that he
    (Max) didn't get to the DRS line before Lewis. (Once he did he took off
    like a cut cat.)

    Dirty driving, pure and simple. I'm sooo pleased the fool isn't a steward.

    So you think that Verstappen is dirty...

    ...but so stupid that he'd risk a puncture which would definitely put
    him out of the points.

    Got it.

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  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 8 18:53:27 2021
    On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 2:24:48 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

    Got it.

    you aint got fuck all.
    you fucking stupid cunt.

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  • From texas gate@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 8 18:55:39 2021
    On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 1:55:54 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

    Verstappen wanted Hamilton to pass him. Why would he weave, and
    subsequent to what?

    fuck off you trolling simpleton buffoon

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  • From Alan LeHun@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 9 19:29:41 2021
    In article <soofh8$1mrf$1@gioia.aioe.org>, nope@nope.com says...
    So...

    If we do it that way, just exactly when would Verstappen have been
    allowed to overtake again?

    He can overtake any time he wants, but he has to remember that he is the
    one trying to avoid a penalty.



    Hamilton takes back the place instead of getting brake-checked.

    Up the main straight DRS zone, Verstappen gets DRS, but can't overtake.

    So he's right on Hamilton's gearbox going into turn 1.

    Can he now overtake?


    As above. If he thinks that any advantage that he gained has been
    negated, or rather, if he thinks that's how the stewards would see it,
    then by all means go for it.

    It must be noted however, that even if you do give the place back, the
    stewards may decide to investigate and issue a penalty anyway. Giving
    the place back is a bit like saying 'Sorry! Didn't mean to do that' and
    hoping you'll get away with it. From the stewards pov, not gaining any
    lasting advantage from an infringement means that they can forgo an investigation and let them get on with the racing.

    If an infringement has occurred, and an investigation initiated, then a
    penalty is most probably forthcoming, irrespective of any advantage
    gained, not gained or returned. This is why Max was told that he "didn't
    have to do that" when he gave the place back later on as the incident
    was already under investigation by that time.


    --
    Alan LeHun

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