I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to on the
fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake
early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly
wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the middle
of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough room at
the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the
braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't
have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow
Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that leaves a
little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the apex curb in the
first half of the chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to place his car where
he wants, his right front rides over all the curbing to the point where
he only just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even
alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his left] to
avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was
reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble strips
and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video
I'm pretty close to on the fence about this one.
On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 5:43:35 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
I'm pretty close to on the fence about this one.
like your sexuality?
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to on
the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake
early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough room
that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner.
And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been
given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly
wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the
middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do anything
to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough room
at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for that even
though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen
before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has no case
that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow
Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that leaves a
little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the apex curb in
the first half of the chicane at all. His right front tire didn't
even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to place
his car where he wants, his right front rides over all the curbing to
the point where he only just misses the red sleeping policeman. And
the stewards even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his left]
to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to on
the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake
early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough room
that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner.
And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been
given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly
wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the
middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do anything
to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough room
at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for that even
though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen
before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has no case
that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow
Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that leaves a
little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the apex curb in
the first half of the chicane at all. His right front tire didn't
even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to place
his car where he wants, his right front rides over all the curbing to
the point where he only just misses the red sleeping policeman. And
the stewards even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his left]
to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the corner.
There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't still hitBut, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to
on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave
room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the
corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room
he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had
he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do
anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen
has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave
Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right front
rides over all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded to that
fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the
corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't still
hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some judgement that
their grip level will be "different" to a normal lap.
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to
on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave
room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the
corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room
he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had
he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen
has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave
Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right front
rides over all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded to that
fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the
corner.
OK, thanks. Didn't know that.But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't still
hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some judgement that
their grip level will be "different" to a normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs before the
tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is that reason over and
above the difficulty of precise judgement through the first corner
while under attack on fresh tyres.
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to on
the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake
early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough room
that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner.
And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been
given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly
wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the
middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he
established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do anything
to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough room
at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for that even
though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen
before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has no case
that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow
Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that leaves a
little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the apex curb in
the first half of the chicane at all. His right front tire didn't
even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to place
his car where he wants, his right front rides over all the curbing to
the point where he only just misses the red sleeping policeman. And
the stewards even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his left]
to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was
reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't still
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close toA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave
room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the
corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room
he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had
he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do
anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with
Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen
has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave
Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right front
rides over all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded to that
fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the
corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.
hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some judgement that
their grip level will be "different" to a normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs before the
tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is that reason over and
above the difficulty of precise judgement through the first corner
while under attack on fresh tyres.
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to
on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave
room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the
corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room
he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do
anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen
has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave
Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right front
rides over all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded to that
fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the
corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close
to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish
his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting
to overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN
leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left
enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to
negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed
to use the room he'd been given, I think his penalty was
fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's
left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room.
Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton
COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left
enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't
penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost
completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone. So
at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't have
adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride
the apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His
right front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any
other lap where he's free to place his car where he wants,
his right front rides over all the curbing to the point where
he only just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the
stewards even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to
his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that
his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for
me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in
the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the otherA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
foot.
kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to seeThere's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't
why.
still hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some
judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a normal
lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs beforeOK, thanks. Didn't know that.
the tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is that reason
over and above the difficulty of precise judgement through the
first corner while under attack on fresh tyres.
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close
to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish
his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN
leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate
the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the
room he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room.
Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton
COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level
with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point,
Verstappen has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his
pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right
front rides over all the curbing to the point where he only
just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even
alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for
me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in
the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the otherA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
foot.
kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to seeThere's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't
why.
still hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some
judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a normal
lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs before the
tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is that reason over
and above the difficulty of precise judgement through the first
corner while under attack on fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close to
on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish his
position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN leave
room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the
corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room
he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room. Had he
established his position early enough that Hamilton COULD do
anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with
Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen
has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to leave
Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to allow
Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right front
rides over all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded to that
fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for me:
Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in the
corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the rumble
strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
Lower tyre pressures and kerbs are not a good mix. It has been
mentioned especially in connection with Mercedes.
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see why.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty closeA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish
his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN
leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate
the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the
room he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room.
Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton
COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level
with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point,
Verstappen has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his
pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right
front rides over all the curbing to the point where he only
just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even
alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for
me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in
the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other
foot.
kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to see
why.
still hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some
judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a normal
lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs before the
tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is that reason over
and above the difficulty of precise judgement through the first
corner while under attack on fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Selective deafness.
On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 12:41:02 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
you sound queer and feminine
fag like
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
...but you "choose" not to, right?
On 2021-09-17 11:33 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close
to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish
his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN
leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate
the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the
room he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room.
Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton
COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level
with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point,
Verstappen has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his
pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right
front rides over all the curbing to the point where he only
just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even
alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for
me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in
the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other
foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
Lower tyre pressures and kerbs are not a good mix. It has been
mentioned especially in connection with Mercedes.
Why would it be "especially" when the tires are exactly the same?
However the point is moot anyway.
On 2021-09-17 11:34 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird
wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty
close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver
being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left
enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton
failed to use the room he'd been given, I think his
penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's
left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough that
Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left
enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't
penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone.
So at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't
have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough
to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides over
all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded
to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call
for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line
while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on theA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
other foot.
kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult toThere's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't
see why.
still hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some
judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a
normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs
before the tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is
that reason over and above the difficulty of precise judgement
through the first corner while under attack on fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Selective deafness.
You could easily demonstrate that I'm wrong my showing this
information...
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:33 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty close
to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to establish
his position sufficiently alongside the car he's attempting to
overtake early enough that the driver being overtaken CAN
leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left enough
room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate
the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the
room he'd been given, I think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left
through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any room.
Had he established his position early enough that Hamilton
COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left enough
room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't penalized for
that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level
with Verstappen before the braking zone. So at that point,
Verstappen has no case that he couldn't have adjusted his
pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough to
allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing that
leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton didn't ride the
apex curb in the first half of the chicane at all. His right
front tire didn't even touch the PAINT there. On any other lap
where he's free to place his car where he wants, his right
front rides over all the curbing to the point where he only
just misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even
alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb [to his
left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his
position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call for
me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line while in
the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the other
foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
Lower tyre pressures and kerbs are not a good mix. It has been
mentioned especially in connection with Mercedes.
Why would it be "especially" when the tires are exactly the same?
Because it has come up time and time again. Do you even watch any races
you argumentative pissant pedant? Recall any tyre failures or punctures?
Put your tail between you legs, run away and refresh you memory
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12042387/british-gp-f1-tyre-failures-explained-by-pirelli-biggest-forces-ever#:~:text=There%20was%20a%20dramatic%20conclusion,Hamilton%20suffering%20front%2Dleft%20blowouts.
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:34 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird
wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits shouldn't
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm prettyA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver
being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left
enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to
negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton
failed to use the room he'd been given, I think his
penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's
left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough that
Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left
enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't
penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost
completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone.
So at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't
have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough
to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides over
all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded
to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call
for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line
while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the
other foot.
kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult to
see why.
still hit the same apexes as they should be capable of some
judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a
normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs
before the tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is
that reason over and above the difficulty of precise judgement
through the first corner while under attack on fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Selective deafness.
You could easily demonstrate that I'm wrong my showing this
information...
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
So you are really contending that you have never heard of any link
between tyre integrity and tyre pressures...
...for how many years has Pirelli been forced to mandate minimum tyre pressures and frequently increase them at certain tracks...
...and you have never heard of cars being told to stay off the kerbs...
Your inability to join the dots and self-proclaimed ignorance is not my problem.
If you had ever raced you would be aware of such issues... Oh wait a minute... it seems that pootling around is not like the real thing
after all; who knew.
And it took how many weeks to think it up?
Alan Baker wrote:<snip>
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
On 4/10/2021 12:00 am, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:<snip>
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.Slow day? Bad day? Replying to older Baker posts is a little out of character for you.
I hope that you're well.
On 4/10/2021 12:00 am, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:<snip>
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
Slow day? Bad day? Replying to older Baker posts is a little out of
character for you.
I hope that you're well.
On 2021-10-03 4:00 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:33 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty
close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver
being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left
enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton
failed to use the room he'd been given, I think his
penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's
left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough that
Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left
enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't
penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone.
So at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't
have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough
to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides over
all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded
to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call
for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line
while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the
other foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
Lower tyre pressures and kerbs are not a good mix. It has been mentioned especially in connection with Mercedes.
Why would it be "especially" when the tires are exactly the same?
Because it has come up time and time again. Do you even watch any
races you argumentative pissant pedant? Recall any tyre failures or punctures?
Put your tail between you legs, run away and refresh you memory
Those tire problems came at the END of a long stints.
So how does it support your argument that tires are particularly
vulnerable when they come out of the pits.
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
<yawn>
And it took how many weeks to think it up?
On 2021-10-03 3:56 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:34 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird
wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm
pretty close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the
driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he
left enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's
width to negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been given, I
think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake
and he certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough
that Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been
left enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen
wasn't penalized for that even though Hamilton had
drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before
the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has
no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to
leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon
enough to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him
room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides
over all the curbing to the point where he only just
misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards
even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close
call for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal
racing line while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of
the rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on theA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over
other foot.
the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficultThere's no reason why a driver just out of the pits
to see why.
shouldn't still hit the same apexes as they should be
capable of some judgement that their grip level will be "different" to a normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs
before the tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is
that reason over and above the difficulty of precise
judgement through the first corner while under attack on
fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Selective deafness.
You could easily demonstrate that I'm wrong my showing this information...
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
So you are really contending that you have never heard of any link
between tyre integrity and tyre pressures...
I have never heard that tire damage has been attributed to getting on
kerbs before they're fully up to temp.
...for how many years has Pirelli been forced to mandate minimum
tyre pressures and frequently increase them at certain tracks...
Don't know. Don't care. Because it doesn't support your point.
...and you have never heard of cars being told to stay off the
kerbs...
Sure I have. But not only until their tires are fully up to temp.
Your inability to join the dots and self-proclaimed ignorance is
not my problem.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-10-03 4:00 a.m., Bigbird wrote:https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12042387/british-gp-f1-tyre-failures-explained-by-pirelli-biggest-forces-ever#:~:text=There%20was%20a%20dramatic%20conclusion,Hamilton%20suffering%20front%2Dleft%20blowouts.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:33 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 3:09 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'm pretty
close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the driver
being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he left
enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's width to
negotiate the corner. And on the basis that Hamilton
failed to use the room he'd been given, I think his
penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake and he
certainly wasn't left any room on the track to Hamilton's
left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough that
Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been left
enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen wasn't
penalized for that even though Hamilton had drawn almost
completely level with Verstappen before the braking zone.
So at that point, Verstappen has no case that he couldn't
have adjusted his pace to leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon enough
to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides over
all the curbing to the point where he only just misses
the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards even alluded
to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close call
for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal racing line
while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of the
rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the
other foot.
A guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over the
kerbs...
Why, exactly, would that be?
Lower tyre pressures and kerbs are not a good mix. It has been
mentioned especially in connection with Mercedes.
Why would it be "especially" when the tires are exactly the same?
Because it has come up time and time again. Do you even watch any
races you argumentative pissant pedant? Recall any tyre failures or
punctures?
Put your tail between you legs, run away and refresh you memory
Those tire problems came at the END of a long stints.
So how does it support your argument that tires are particularly
vulnerable when they come out of the pits.
So you continue to deny that tyres at low pressure are more vulnerable
to problems.
You wave your ignorance like a flag.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-10-03 3:56 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-17 11:34 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-14 4:55 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
Matt Larkin wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 September 2021 at 11:09:07 UTC+1, Bigbird
wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:There's no reason why a driver just out of the pits
I've taken a bunch of looks at the video and I'mA guy on new tyres just out of the pits isn't all over
pretty close to on the fence about this one.
I've always said that the overtaking driver has to
establish his position sufficiently alongside the car
he's attempting to overtake early enough that the
driver being overtaken CAN leave room.
In Silverstone, Verstappen had enough time, and he
left enough room that Hamilton had more than a car's
width to negotiate the corner. And on the basis that
Hamilton failed to use the room he'd been given, I
think his penalty was fair.
This time, it was Verstappen attempting to overtake
and he certainly wasn't left any room on the track to
Hamilton's left through the middle of the chicane...
...so it boils down to whether he was entitled to any
room. Had he established his position early enough
that Hamilton COULD do anything to leave him room.
And I think the answer is: most likely not.
Hamilton has a far better case for having not been
left enough room at the turn 4 chicane and Verstappen
wasn't penalized for that even though Hamilton had
drawn almost completely level with Verstappen before
the braking zone. So at that point, Verstappen has
no case that he couldn't have adjusted his pace to
leave Hamilton room.
So, that establishes a precedent.
And I think that Verstappen just wasn't there soon
enough to allow Hamilton any ability to leave him
room.
I watched the in-car from both sides and the one thing
that leaves a little room to argue is that Hamilton
didn't ride the apex curb in the first half of the
chicane at all. His right front tire didn't even touch
the PAINT there. On any other lap where he's free to
place his car where he wants, his right front rides
over all the curbing to the point where he only just
misses the red sleeping policeman. And the stewards
even alluded to that fact:
'While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb
[to his left] to avoid the incident, the Stewards
determined that his position was reasonable'
So that is the one thing that makes it a very close
call for me: Hamilton didn't even use his normal
racing line while in the corner.
But, Verstappen could have chosen to take the ride of
the rumble strips and cede the opportunity...
...which is what Hamilton did when the shoe was on the
other foot.
the kerbs...
...I guess if you remove any bias it isn't as difficult
to see why.
shouldn't still hit the same apexes as they should be
capable of some judgement that their grip level will be
"different" to a normal lap.
Damage to tyres has been attributed to being on the kerbs
before the tyres are fully up to temperature... so there is
that reason over and above the difficulty of precise
judgement through the first corner while under attack on
fresh tyres.
I've never heard that mentioned. Ever.
Selective deafness.
You could easily demonstrate that I'm wrong my showing this
information...
...but you "choose" not to, right?
:-)
So you are really contending that you have never heard of any link
between tyre integrity and tyre pressures...
I have never heard that tire damage has been attributed to getting on
kerbs before they're fully up to temp.
Why are you avoiding answering the question?
Perhaps because you know it makes you look like an ignorant fuckwit.
...for how many years has Pirelli been forced to mandate minimum
tyre pressures and frequently increase them at certain tracks...
Don't know. Don't care. Because it doesn't support your point.
...and you have never heard of cars being told to stay off the
kerbs...
Sure I have. But not only until their tires are fully up to temp.
Which just shows your ignorance.
~misfit~ wrote:
On 4/10/2021 12:00 am, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:<snip>
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
Slow day? Bad day? Replying to older Baker posts is a little out of
character for you.
I hope that you're well.
I don't load this up no matter read much very often.
It's not like it is instant messaging.
On 5/10/2021 4:45 am, Bigbird wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
On 4/10/2021 12:00 am, Bigbird wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:<snip>
However the point is moot anyway.
It's a counter point to you moot point, asshole.
Slow day? Bad day? Replying to older Baker posts is a little out of
character for you.
I hope that you're well.
I don't load this up no matter read much very often.
It's not like it is instant messaging.
Fair enough. I check most days, sometimes more than once but that has a lot to do with the fact I
use Thunderbird for both email and newsgroups.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 293 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 235:39:16 |
| Calls: | 6,624 |
| Files: | 12,172 |
| Messages: | 5,319,767 |