Just finished a nightly outdoor session with the H5 as it arrived
yesterday. I have a 14 day rental window, so set up and got busy.

Observations:

*Not sure I like the menu access button on the side of the unit.
Sometimes I'm not depressing it just right and it doesn't select what I
want. They seemed to combine menu scrolling and selection into this
awkward button. Not sure how long it would last either. I liked it
better on top like the H2 has.

*It came with the standard 90 degree angle mics on top. At first, I
thought these might be rotated for up to 180 degrees, but these are
fixed. Not a biggie, just glad I didn't twist them off trying to get 180!

*I'm going to have to stay well clear of the record button once
depressed. A LOT easier to stop recording than with the H2, especially
since I mount the unit on top of a right angle bracket a foot above my
head once everything is in place (deadcat, power, etc).

*The aforementioned is fairly minor, but this one is more significant,
at least to me: file transfer times! It takes 22 min to transfer the
roughly 24 GB data from card to PC if card is removed and plugged into
the PC, but 1.5 hours if I had used the USB cable from the unit to PC.
I had hoped this time I wouldn't have to remove the card. Transfer time
I believe is faster than with H2 was, but still not enough.

*Too bad there's no way to charge the Eneloops within the unit rather
than having to remove them each time. Of course, the same with the H2.
I do use the external Li-ion battery, but it doesn't last the night and
the internals have to take over.

*On the plus side, I do appreciate the back up recording files! There
was no problem overnight. For every main file, there was a back up. No coyotes, but there were some geese offering roughly the same signal
amplitude that the coyotes would have. I'm going to take a look and
listen to the files later.

*Overall though, so far, I can't see this being that much more
advantageous than my H2. Perhaps someone can tell me how the hyped up
noise thresholds on these handhelds is useful? The H2 was rated around
-99 dB and this one around -120 dB, IIRC.

I would appreciate knowing how to clean off the black casing before I
have to send it back. This time of the year, my hands break out badly
if I don't keep them moisturized regularly. I use a petroleum based oil nightly. I wear cotton gloves handling the H5, but it's still leaving
small smudges in spots. Don't want to send it back that way! Thanks in advance.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Never mind, all. I'm sending it back. I'll get credit for the unused
days. Listening to the audio, I hear no advantage over the H2. I
suppose if indoors in the quiet, it would make a difference, but not how
I am using it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

re: noise measurements on mike preamps -- everyone says that it's a complex subject, not reducible to any single number--and then they go right ahead and do it anyway, as if there was nothing better that they could do. I'm appalled at the survey of
preamp noise levels that was referenced, despite the obvious good intentions behind it.

Preamps generally have _very_ different noise figures at different gain settings. It's crucial to know how much gain you actually need--then you can evaluate their noise performance at that gain level. The source impedance (the actual output impedance of
the microphone) also matters a lot. 150 Ohms may be a quasi-standard in the U.S., but different types of microphones have markedly different impedance characteristics, and a pair of resistors may not model them at all well. (Dynamic and especially ribbon
microphones, I'm talking to you ...)

Some years ago I took every preamp I owned, measured their equivalent input noise at full gain, and ranked which ones were the quietest. Then I chose a gain setting typical of the live classical concert recording that I mainly do (around 30 - 35 dB). I
measured again at that gain level and the rankings came out COMPLETELY different. The preamp that came in second (the FMR "Real Nice Preamp") actually has a kind of apology in its owners manual for not having as good a noise spec as some other preamps,
but as far as I'm concerned they needn't have apologized at all. The preamp that came in first, incidentally, was a Jim Williams-modified dbx preamp. But the nature of his modifications made it almost immaterial what preamp I had started out with; I
just chose the dbx unit because I had it, wasn't using it, and the package was suitable. BTW, what I put across the inputs of the preamps was also specific to the way I typically record--a transformerless Schoeps condenser mike with a shorted Schoeps "
test head" on it, like the ones they use for quality control at the factory.

So it's way beyond "take those listed numbers with a grain of salt." On the contrary, they're pretty much irrelevant unless you happen to need the gain levels that they were measuring at, AND your microphone's output circuit behaves like a pair of 150-
Ohm resistors. It's not just that your mileage MAY vary--it absolutely WILL vary. You would almost certainly make different decisions about preamps if you measured in a way that takes your specific microphones and gain settings into account.

--best regards

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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Cg==

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/02/2022 20:40, David Satz wrote:

re: noise measurements on mike preamps -- everyone says that it's a
So it's way beyond "take those listed numbers with a grain of salt." On the contrary, they're pretty much irrelevant unless you happen to need the gain levels that they were measuring at, AND your microphone's output circuit behaves like a pair of 150-

Ohm resistors. It's not just that your mileage MAY vary--it absolutely WILL vary. You would almost certainly make different decisions about preamps if you measured in a way that takes your specific microphones and gain settings into account.

In Jake T's case, when using the H2, he is using condenser microphone
capsules integrated with the recorder circuitry directly, so the capsule impedance is extremely high, and matched to circuitry on the board which
would normally be inside the capsule. IIRC, they are electret condenser capsules, with all that implies for noise levels. For what it is,
though, the quality is very good, especially for "normal" recording
jobs. The only way to get a noise figure is to put it in an anechoic, soundproof chamber.

The Zoom supplied H5 microphones are a low voltage powered condenser mic
in a clip on module, and come in various flavours, ranging from a
standard 90 degree crossed XY to a short stereo shotgun. The advantage
of the H5 over the H2 is that the H5 has proper phantom power for any
eternal microphones you want to use, and XLR/ TRS jack combined
connectors, rather than the low voltage unbalanced supply on a 3.5mm
stereo jack of the H2. For silliness, in Jake's application, you could
plug in a long Schoeps shotgun as used on many movie sets for better
gain and noise, but the cost is ridiculous.

Due to the low sound pressures involved, Jake is also running the
preamps flat out, with no pad between the mic and the preamp, which
won't be helping the noise figures.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)